What is England's worst recent away Ashes defeat?

Here are the current results.

2002-03 - Australia 4-1 England 1%

2006-07 - Australia 5-0 England 14%

2013-14 - Australia 5-0 England 15%

2017-18 - Australia 4-0 England 1%

2021-22 - Australia 3-0 England (two Tests to play) 69%

vote here https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59816130

max.it

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In message <pimosgp2r89fheinrgt3nit9394bdgp4rj@4ax.com>, max. it
<max@tea.time> writes
>
>
>What is England's worst recent away Ashes defeat?
>
>Here are the current results.
>
>2002-03 - Australia 4-1 England 1%
>
>2006-07 - Australia 5-0 England 14%
>
>2013-14 - Australia 5-0 England 15%
>
>2017-18 - Australia 4-0 England 1%
>
>2021-22 - Australia 3-0 England (two Tests to play) 69%
>
>vote here https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59816130
>
>max.it
>

Though 2006-7 and 2021-2 have strong claims, in the end my vote went to
2013-4, for the way what had looked like a strong side totally fell
apart. At least this time we knew in advance that England weren't very
good.
--
John Hall
"Home is heaven and orgies are vile,
But you *need* an orgy, once in a while."
Ogden Nash (1902-1971)

On Wed, 29 Dec 2021 16:37:17 +0000, John Hall
<john_nospam@jhall.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <pimosgp2r89fheinrgt3nit9394bdgp4rj@4ax.com>, max. it
><max@tea.time> writes
>>
>>
>>What is England's worst recent away Ashes defeat?
>>
>>Here are the current results.
>>
>>2002-03 - Australia 4-1 England 1%
>>
>>2006-07 - Australia 5-0 England 14%
>>
>>2013-14 - Australia 5-0 England 15%
>>
>>2017-18 - Australia 4-0 England 1%
>>
>>2021-22 - Australia 3-0 England (two Tests to play) 69%
>>
>>vote here https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59816130
>>
>>max.it
>>
>
>Though 2006-7 and 2021-2 have strong claims, in the end my vote went to
>2013-4, for the way what had looked like a strong side totally fell
>apart. At least this time we knew in advance that England weren't very
>good.

I'd regard the poll as essentially meaningless. It's put up today so
that people can vent their frustration and of course it is getting the
expected result. Let's see this poll conducted in 10 years time and
see what the result is.

Cheers,

Mike

On Wednesday, December 29, 2021 at 5:05:47 PM UTC, Mike Holmans wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Dec 2021 16:37:17 +0000, John Hall
> <john_...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >In message <pimosgp2r89fheinr...@4ax.com>, max. it
> ><m...@tea.time> writes
> >>
> >>
> >>What is England's worst recent away Ashes defeat?
> >>
> >>Here are the current results.
> >>
> >>2002-03 - Australia 4-1 England 1%
> >>
> >>2006-07 - Australia 5-0 England 14%
> >>
> >>2013-14 - Australia 5-0 England 15%
> >>
> >>2017-18 - Australia 4-0 England 1%
> >>
> >>2021-22 - Australia 3-0 England (two Tests to play) 69%
> >>

> expected result. Let's see this poll conducted in 10 years time and
> see what the result is.
>

you think that our next tour down under will be even worse?

England made only 1125 runs from 6 completed innings, 60 wkts!
surely you have to go back b4 WW1, to find a team that has scored
fewer runs in the first 3 tests in oz?

mike

In message <b75psg571jcjqrjm7vvpiqnuilce7sg8mm@4ax.com>, Mike Holmans
<spam@jackalope.uk> writes
>On Wed, 29 Dec 2021 16:37:17 +0000, John Hall
><john_nospam@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>In message <pimosgp2r89fheinrgt3nit9394bdgp4rj@4ax.com>, max. it
>><max@tea.time> writes
>>>
>>>
>>>What is England's worst recent away Ashes defeat?
>>>
>>>Here are the current results.
>>>
>>>2002-03 - Australia 4-1 England 1%
>>>
>>>2006-07 - Australia 5-0 England 14%
>>>
>>>2013-14 - Australia 5-0 England 15%
>>>
>>>2017-18 - Australia 4-0 England 1%
>>>
>>>2021-22 - Australia 3-0 England (two Tests to play) 69%
>>>
>>>vote here https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59816130
>>>
>>>max.it
>>>
>>
>>Though 2006-7 and 2021-2 have strong claims, in the end my vote went to
>>2013-4, for the way what had looked like a strong side totally fell
>>apart. At least this time we knew in advance that England weren't very
>>good.
>
>I'd regard the poll as essentially meaningless. It's put up today so
>that people can vent their frustration and of course it is getting the
>expected result.

Of course. People's memories are short.

> Let's see this poll conducted in 10 years time and
>see what the result is.

The winner will probably be the 2031-2 tour (or whenever the most recent
tour was).
--
John Hall
"Home is heaven and orgies are vile,
But you *need* an orgy, once in a while."
Ogden Nash (1902-1971)

On Wed, 29 Dec 2021 18:16:10 +0000, John Hall
<john_nospam@jhall.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <b75psg571jcjqrjm7vvpiqnuilce7sg8mm@4ax.com>, Mike Holmans
><spam@jackalope.uk> writes

>>I'd regard the poll as essentially meaningless. It's put up today so
>>that people can vent their frustration and of course it is getting the
>>expected result.
>
>Of course. People's memories are short.
>
>> Let's see this poll conducted in 10 years time and
>>see what the result is.
>
>The winner will probably be the 2031-2 tour (or whenever the most recent
>tour was).

Pshaw. The ECB will wave its magic wand and this will be the last
series we lose down under until 2037-8.

Cheers,

Mike

On Thursday, December 30, 2021 at 5:08:51 AM UTC+10, Mike Holmans wrote:
> Pshaw. The ECB will wave its magic wand and this will be the last
> series we lose down under until 2037-8.

Made more funny by the fact that you're the only person talking about magic wands and instant change.
The rest of us are using terms like "generational changes".

On Thursday, December 30, 2021 at 2:47:52 AM UTC+10, John Hall wrote:
> Though 2006-7 and 2021-2 have strong claims, in the end my vote went to
> 2013-4, for the way what had looked like a strong side totally fell
> apart. At least this time we knew in advance that England weren't very
> good.

If I include expectations/hope;
2006/7 was the worst, as it comes on the back of the glorious 2005.
OTOH, 2013/14 was preceded by 3 England Ashes series victories. 5-0 was unexpected.
2021/22 had low expectations. But there was some hope. The Aus team looked like it had a few problems.

If I exclude expectations, and just look at performances;
2006/7 wasn't too bad. 3 tons, including a double ton. 10(?) 50s. Some good bowling performances.
2013/4 looks pretty bad overall. 1 ton, 10 50s. 7 different batsmen scoring 50s. However, only 1 batsman averaged 30+. The bowling returns were... urrgh.
2021/22 (obviously 2 matches remain). Root has 3 50s, Malan 2. 35 is the next highest score for a top order batsman. Only 3 batsman average over 20.

A poll like this is pointless as the series hasn't finished. But the results so far look pretty fair to me (based on what we've seen so far).

On 29/12/2021 18:10, mike wrote:

> England made only 1125 runs from 6 completed innings, 60 wkts!
> surely you have to go back b4 WW1, to find a team that has scored
> fewer runs in the first 3 tests in oz?

No, in 1950/51, England made only 950 runs in the first 3 Tests. They
only lost 56 wickets, as they declared at 68/7 on the sticky pitch at
Brisbane, and Doug Wright was absent hurt in the 2nd innings at Sydney,
but they lost 5 wickets in the 4th Test before they reached 1125.

--
David North

On 29/12/2021 16:37, John Hall wrote:
> In message <pimosgp2r89fheinrgt3nit9394bdgp4rj@4ax.com>, max. it
> <max@tea.time> writes
>>
>>
>> What is England's worst recent away Ashes defeat?
>>
>> Here are the current results.
>>
>> 2002-03 - Australia 4-1 England 1%
>>
>> 2006-07 - Australia 5-0 England 14%
>>
>> 2013-14 - Australia 5-0 England 15%
>>
>> 2017-18 - Australia 4-0 England 1%
>>
>> 2021-22 - Australia 3-0 England (two Tests to play) 69%
>>
>> vote here https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59816130
>>
>> max.it
>>
>
> Though 2006-7 and 2021-2 have strong claims, in the end my vote went to
> 2013-4, for the way what had looked like a strong side totally fell
> apart.

.... but it had the redeeming feature of seeing Brett Lee bowling to
Piers Morgan.

--
David North

On Thursday, December 30, 2021 at 10:07:12 AM UTC, nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk wrote:
> On 29/12/2021 18:10, mike wrote:
>
> > England made only 1125 runs from 6 completed innings, 60 wkts!
> > surely you have to go back b4 WW1, to find a team that has scored
> > fewer runs in the first 3 tests in oz?
> No, in 1950/51, England made only 950 runs in the first 3 Tests. They
> only lost 56 wickets, as they declared at 68/7 on the sticky pitch at
> Brisbane, and Doug Wright was absent hurt in the 2nd innings at Sydney,
> but they lost 5 wickets in the 4th Test before they reached 1125.
>
> --
> David North

ok its the worst in 70 years, although there were mitigating factors in 1950,
1 they got caught on a brisbane sticky in the 1st b4 covered wkts
2 they lost a close match by 28 runs
3 they were 2 bowlers short when as you say wright got injured batting,
but also bailey fractured his thumb, and oz made 400+

And they won the 5th test, which doesnt seem likely this time.
Plus they had a top 5 in that test of Hutton, Washbrook, Simpson
Compton and Sheppard, which is with the usual exception of root,
way better than what we have now, and unlike Root they all scored
100s in oz, although I think both Washbrook and Compton had
a terrible time on that tour.

mike

On Thursday, December 30, 2021 at 10:17:51 AM UTC, nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk wrote:
> On 29/12/2021 16:37, John Hall wrote:
> > In message <pimosgp2r89fheinr...@4ax.com>, max. it
> > <m...@tea.time> writes
> >>
> >>
> >> What is England's worst recent away Ashes defeat?
> >>
> > Though 2006-7 and 2021-2 have strong claims, in the end my vote went to
> > 2013-4, for the way what had looked like a strong side totally fell
> > apart.
> ... but it had the redeeming feature of seeing Brett Lee bowling to
> Piers Morgan.
>

1 big mouth not attempting to bowl at the wicket but trying to injure another
big mouth with a bunch of oiks baying for blood. a truly disreputable and
sickening scene.

mike

On 31/12/2021 00:17, mike wrote:
> On Thursday, December 30, 2021 at 10:07:12 AM UTC, nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk wrote:
>> On 29/12/2021 18:10, mike wrote:
>>
>>> England made only 1125 runs from 6 completed innings, 60 wkts!
>>> surely you have to go back b4 WW1, to find a team that has scored
>>> fewer runs in the first 3 tests in oz?
>> No, in 1950/51, England made only 950 runs in the first 3 Tests. They
>> only lost 56 wickets, as they declared at 68/7 on the sticky pitch at
>> Brisbane, and Doug Wright was absent hurt in the 2nd innings at Sydney,
>> but they lost 5 wickets in the 4th Test before they reached 1125.
>
> ok its the worst in 70 years, although there were mitigating factors in 1950,
> 1 they got caught on a brisbane sticky in the 1st b4 covered wkts
> 2 they lost a close match by 28 runs
> 3 they were 2 bowlers short when as you say wright got injured batting,
> but also bailey fractured his thumb, and oz made 400+
>
> And they won the 5th test, which doesnt seem likely this time.
> Plus they had a top 5 in that test of Hutton, Washbrook, Simpson
> Compton and Sheppard, which is with the usual exception of root,
> way better than what we have now, and unlike Root they all scored
> 100s in oz,

Yes, but Sheppard didn't make his until 12 years later (and didn't even
make a Test 50 anywhere until 1952), and Simpson hadn't made his at the
equivalent stage of the tour. There is a fairly good chance that Root
will make one at some time in the future, and even Hameed, Crawley or
Pope might make one by 2033/34.

Malan, Stokes and Bairstow have all made centuries in Australia, so
there are as many in the current side who have done so as there were by
the 3rd Test in 1950/51.

> although I think both Washbrook and Compton had
> a terrible time on that tour.

Yes, they averaged 17.30 and 7.57 in the series, and Sheppard averaged
17.00 in the two Tests he played. Simpson averaged 38.77, but was only
averaging 14.66 by the 3rd Test. Brown (26.25) was the only other player
apart from Hutton (88.83) who averaged 20+.

--
David North

On 31/12/2021 00:20, mike wrote:
> On Thursday, December 30, 2021 at 10:17:51 AM UTC, nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk wrote:
>> On 29/12/2021 16:37, John Hall wrote:
>>> In message <pimosgp2r89fheinr...@4ax.com>, max. it
>>> <m...@tea.time> writes
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What is England's worst recent away Ashes defeat?
>>>>
>>> Though 2006-7 and 2021-2 have strong claims, in the end my vote went to
>>> 2013-4, for the way what had looked like a strong side totally fell
>>> apart.
>> ... but it had the redeeming feature of seeing Brett Lee bowling to
>> Piers Morgan.
>>
>
> 1 big mouth not attempting to bowl at the wicket

What would have been the point of bowling at the wicket? Morgan was
there because he had been criticising the England batsmen for supposed
lack of courage, not for failing against balls bowled at the wicket.

--
David North