Let's take a leap into the unlikely and imagine that the ECB schedule
serious amounts of red ball cricket when you can prepare the best
pitches actually possible, that the weather is reasonably kind and we
get some hard, dry pitches with serious bounce which crack to make
things fun for the spinners later.

Who's going to be able to exploit them, I wonder? It's not going to
magic up fast bowlers on some kind of production line. Even when there
was nothing but county championship cricket and hard, dry pitches were
pretty common in midsummer, we still didn't have fast bowlers in any
serious numbers.

The problem is that this goes all the way back to childhood when kids
first learn to turn their arms over. If keeping a professional square
dry is a huge task, preventing run-ups from being damp and even muddy
on the other 99% of pitches in the country is impossible. And once you
get big enough and strong enough to try bowling fast, your feet come
down harder and your boots gets dirtier as more mud sticks to them
(and you can't exactly stop to clean off a few bits in the middle of
your run-up). Frank Tyson talked in his autobiography about the
leg-sapping aspects of running up on damp pitches, so this is not a
new problem.

Since fast bowling is hard work, it will have casualties: it should be
no surprise that a lot of those who get to make county debuts will
fall by the wayside for one reason or another within 3 years. The
regular questions about which of Australia's quicks are actually fit
enough to play has been raised often enough over the last 3 years for
it to be apparent that quickies are quite fragile beasts, so if you
don't have many to start with, breaking a couple can leave you pretty
bereft.

Keeping them fit is one thing, and making them good bowlers is
another. A considerable slice of those who arrive as hopeful
19-year-old quicks, fill out a bit and are delivering thunderbolts by
age 21 find themselves unable to hit a length or line with anything
resembling consistency - until they knock 5-8 mph off and acquire some
control.

The point of examining these things is not to make excuses for what's
happening now in Australia. As is *always* the case, a lost Ashes
series leads to navel-gazing which may or not have effects. Anyone
who's anyone with any responsibility or power to do anything has been
more than usually embarrassed and most have at least alluded to the
pitch/scheduling issue wrt the red-ball product line, so I expect that
Something Will Be Done.

But it is also important to recognise what one is entitled to expect
if Things Are Done. We can produce English cricketers. We can't
produce West Indian cricketers or Pakistani cricketers or Australian
cricketers, just as they can't produce English cricketers, because
each environment is different. Judging whether progress has been made
or success has been achieved has to take into account what constitutes
success or failure: complaining that a gold mine isn't producing
emeralds and rubies rather misses the point. The question is whether
you're mining the gold to best effect, not whether you're failing to
find things you don't really expect, even if they do turn up
sometimes.

The obvious solution to this particular issue is to hire a number of
ready-made fast bowlers from overseas, which also encourages
scheduling in midsummer when the IPL has finished so that there are
enough available to make it interesting. It would be nice if Wood and
Archer could play too, but the sagas of their fitness don't need
rehearsing.

Cheers,

Mike

On Thursday, January 6, 2022 at 11:53:42 AM UTC+10, Mike Holmans wrote:
> Let's take a leap into the unlikely and imagine that the ECB schedule
> serious amounts of red ball cricket when you can prepare the best
> pitches actually possible, that the weather is reasonably kind and we
> get some hard, dry pitches with serious bounce which crack to make
> things fun for the spinners later.

If the ECB is going to take away Tests seriously, then scheduling will have to change.
Playing fewer CC matches will help. What's this obsession with playing so many games, especially when the edge-season weather is so bad?

> Who's going to be able to exploit them, I wonder? It's not going to
> magic up fast bowlers on some kind of production line. Even when there
> was nothing but county championship cricket and hard, dry pitches were
> pretty common in midsummer, we still didn't have fast bowlers in any
> serious numbers.

It's a generational change.
FastER and hardER pitches will deter medium pace. To increase their chance of winning, teams will pick more and more fastER bowlers. And more spinners.

> The problem is that this goes all the way back to childhood when kids
> first learn to turn their arms over. If keeping a professional square
> dry is a huge task, preventing run-ups from being damp and even muddy
> on the other 99% of pitches in the country is impossible. And once you
> get big enough and strong enough to try bowling fast, your feet come
> down harder and your boots gets dirtier as more mud sticks to them
> (and you can't exactly stop to clean off a few bits in the middle of
> your run-up). Frank Tyson talked in his autobiography about the
> leg-sapping aspects of running up on damp pitches, so this is not a
> new problem.

Grassroots will be a challenge. But I don't think real pace develops until higher levels, where better pitches will be available.

> Since fast bowling is hard work, it will have casualties: it should be

*play less CC games*

> But it is also important to recognise what one is entitled to expect
> if Things Are Done. We can produce English cricketers. We can't
> produce West Indian cricketers or Pakistani cricketers or Australian
> cricketers, just as they can't produce English cricketers, because
> each environment is different. Judging whether progress has been made
> or success has been achieved has to take into account what constitutes
> success or failure: complaining that a gold mine isn't producing
> emeralds and rubies rather misses the point. The question is whether
> you're mining the gold to best effect, not whether you're failing to
> find things you don't really expect, even if they do turn up
> sometimes.

Then don't do away tours. Oh wait, we can't.
Let's just lose everything away, then.
Or... instead of just plodding along... make some changes.

On Thursday, January 6, 2022 at 1:53:42 AM UTC, Mike Holmans wrote:
> Let's take a leap into the unlikely and imagine that the ECB schedule
> serious amounts of red ball cricket when you can prepare the best
> pitches actually possible, that the weather is reasonably kind and we
> get some hard, dry pitches with serious bounce which crack to make
> things fun for the spinners later.
>
> Who's going to be able to exploit them, I wonder? It's not going to
> magic up fast bowlers on some kind of production line. Even when there
> was nothing but county championship cricket and hard, dry pitches were
> pretty common in midsummer, we still didn't have fast bowlers in any
> serious numbers.
>
> The problem is that this goes all the way back to childhood when kids
> first learn to turn their arms over. If keeping a professional square
> dry is a huge task, preventing run-ups from being damp and even muddy
> on the other 99% of pitches in the country is impossible. And once you
> get big enough and strong enough to try bowling fast, your feet come
> down harder and your boots gets dirtier as more mud sticks to them
> (and you can't exactly stop to clean off a few bits in the middle of
> your run-up). Frank Tyson talked in his autobiography about the
> leg-sapping aspects of running up on damp pitches, so this is not a
> new problem.
>
> Since fast bowling is hard work, it will have casualties: it should be
> no surprise that a lot of those who get to make county debuts will
> fall by the wayside for one reason or another within 3 years. The
> regular questions about which of Australia's quicks are actually fit
> enough to play has been raised often enough over the last 3 years for
> it to be apparent that quickies are quite fragile beasts, so if you
> don't have many to start with, breaking a couple can leave you pretty
> bereft.
>
> Keeping them fit is one thing, and making them good bowlers is
> another. A considerable slice of those who arrive as hopeful
> 19-year-old quicks, fill out a bit and are delivering thunderbolts by
> age 21 find themselves unable to hit a length or line with anything
> resembling consistency - until they knock 5-8 mph off and acquire some
> control.
>
> The point of examining these things is not to make excuses for what's
> happening now in Australia. As is *always* the case, a lost Ashes
> series leads to navel-gazing which may or not have effects. Anyone
> who's anyone with any responsibility or power to do anything has been
> more than usually embarrassed and most have at least alluded to the
> pitch/scheduling issue wrt the red-ball product line, so I expect that
> Something Will Be Done.
>
> But it is also important to recognise what one is entitled to expect
> if Things Are Done. We can produce English cricketers. We can't
> produce West Indian cricketers or Pakistani cricketers or Australian
> cricketers, just as they can't produce English cricketers, because
> each environment is different. Judging whether progress has been made
> or success has been achieved has to take into account what constitutes
> success or failure: complaining that a gold mine isn't producing
> emeralds and rubies rather misses the point. The question is whether
> you're mining the gold to best effect, not whether you're failing to
> find things you don't really expect, even if they do turn up
> sometimes.
>
> The obvious solution to this particular issue is to hire a number of
> ready-made fast bowlers from overseas, which also encourages
> scheduling in midsummer when the IPL has finished so that there are
> enough available to make it interesting. It would be nice if Wood and
> Archer could play too, but the sagas of their fitness don't need
> rehearsing.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Mike

master Unwholesome makes things very easy, do whatever master unwholesome suggests. So this is what England need to do

Have more FC county cricket - 17 games played in a single division with every county playing each other .

Make it part of central contracts that England players plat as much CC cricket as possible.

Do away with pitch inspectors.

Return to uncovered pitches .
RH

On Thursday, January 6, 2022 at 8:34:15 AM UTC, RH wrote:
> On Thursday, January 6, 2022 at 1:53:42 AM UTC, Mike Holmans wrote:
> > Let's take a leap into the unlikely and imagine that the ECB schedule
> > serious amounts of red ball cricket when you can prepare the best
> > pitches actually possible, that the weather is reasonably kind and we
> > get some hard, dry pitches with serious bounce which crack to make
> > things fun for the spinners later.
> >
> > Who's going to be able to exploit them, I wonder? It's not going to
> > magic up fast bowlers on some kind of production line. Even when there
> > was nothing but county championship cricket and hard, dry pitches were
> > pretty common in midsummer, we still didn't have fast bowlers in any
> > serious numbers.
> >
> > The problem is that this goes all the way back to childhood when kids
> > first learn to turn their arms over. If keeping a professional square
> > dry is a huge task, preventing run-ups from being damp and even muddy
> > on the other 99% of pitches in the country is impossible. And once you
> > get big enough and strong enough to try bowling fast, your feet come
> > down harder and your boots gets dirtier as more mud sticks to them
> > (and you can't exactly stop to clean off a few bits in the middle of
> > your run-up). Frank Tyson talked in his autobiography about the
> > leg-sapping aspects of running up on damp pitches, so this is not a
> > new problem.
> >
> > Since fast bowling is hard work, it will have casualties: it should be
> > no surprise that a lot of those who get to make county debuts will
> > fall by the wayside for one reason or another within 3 years. The
> > regular questions about which of Australia's quicks are actually fit
> > enough to play has been raised often enough over the last 3 years for
> > it to be apparent that quickies are quite fragile beasts, so if you
> > don't have many to start with, breaking a couple can leave you pretty
> > bereft.
> >
> > Keeping them fit is one thing, and making them good bowlers is
> > another. A considerable slice of those who arrive as hopeful
> > 19-year-old quicks, fill out a bit and are delivering thunderbolts by
> > age 21 find themselves unable to hit a length or line with anything
> > resembling consistency - until they knock 5-8 mph off and acquire some
> > control.
> >
> > The point of examining these things is not to make excuses for what's
> > happening now in Australia. As is *always* the case, a lost Ashes
> > series leads to navel-gazing which may or not have effects. Anyone
> > who's anyone with any responsibility or power to do anything has been
> > more than usually embarrassed and most have at least alluded to the
> > pitch/scheduling issue wrt the red-ball product line, so I expect that
> > Something Will Be Done.
> >
> > But it is also important to recognise what one is entitled to expect
> > if Things Are Done. We can produce English cricketers. We can't
> > produce West Indian cricketers or Pakistani cricketers or Australian
> > cricketers, just as they can't produce English cricketers, because
> > each environment is different. Judging whether progress has been made
> > or success has been achieved has to take into account what constitutes
> > success or failure: complaining that a gold mine isn't producing
> > emeralds and rubies rather misses the point. The question is whether
> > you're mining the gold to best effect, not whether you're failing to
> > find things you don't really expect, even if they do turn up
> > sometimes.
> >
> > The obvious solution to this particular issue is to hire a number of
> > ready-made fast bowlers from overseas, which also encourages
> > scheduling in midsummer when the IPL has finished so that there are
> > enough available to make it interesting. It would be nice if Wood and
> > Archer could play too, but the sagas of their fitness don't need
> > rehearsing.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Mike
> master Unwholesome makes things very easy, do

Correction

the opposite of whatever master unwholesome suggests. So this is what England need to do
>
> Have more FC county cricket - 17 games played in a single division with every county playing each other .
>
> Make it part of central contracts that England players plat as much CC cricket as possible.
>
> Do away with pitch inspectors.
>
> Return to uncovered pitches .
> RH

On Thursday, January 6, 2022 at 6:34:15 PM UTC+10, RH wrote:
> Do away with pitch inspectors.
> Return to uncovered pitches .

Those calling for harder and faster pitches? 100s of professional cricketers
Those calling for uncovered pitches: one nutjob

In message <fmdctg12m3ilvr0cgm3oe6nf1tk5t4ftj4@4ax.com>, Mike Holmans
<spam@jackalope.uk> writes
<big snip>
>But it is also important to recognise what one is entitled to expect if
>Things Are Done. We can produce English cricketers. We can't produce
>West Indian cricketers or Pakistani cricketers or Australian
>cricketers, just as they can't produce English cricketers, because each
>environment is different.

Perhaps we should be aiming to produce NZ cricketers, where the climate
and pitches are not dissimilar to our own. It might be worth looking to
see what lessons we can take from the way NZ has turned its cricket
round over the last decade or so. There's another similarity, in that in
NZ cricket is very much overshadowed by rugby, just as in England it is
very much overshadowed by soccer, meaning that in both countries cricket
is only a minority sporting interest for the population as a whole and
limiting the number of children who take up the game.
--
John Hall
"Home is heaven and orgies are vile,
But you *need* an orgy, once in a while."
Ogden Nash (1902-1971)

On Thursday, January 6, 2022 at 7:42:17 PM UTC+10, John Hall wrote:
> Perhaps we should be aiming to produce NZ cricketers, where the climate
> and pitches are not dissimilar to our own. It might be worth looking to
> see what lessons we can take from the way NZ has turned its cricket
> round over the last decade or so.

For a start, their FC comp is only 8 matches (per team team, that is). What is CC? RH is suggesting 17....

On Thursday, January 6, 2022 at 10:18:35 AM UTC, jzfre...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, January 6, 2022 at 7:42:17 PM UTC+10, John Hall wrote:
> > Perhaps we should be aiming to produce NZ cricketers, where the climate
> > and pitches are not dissimilar to our own. It might be worth looking to
> > see what lessons we can take from the way NZ has turned its cricket
> > round over the last decade or so.
> For a start, their FC comp is only 8 matches (per team team, that is). What is CC? RH is suggesting 17....

SIGH. I am not saying there are 17 County Championship (CC) matches now. I am saying the two divisions should be scrapped and each county play a CC match against the other 17 teams., RH

On Thu, 6 Jan 2022 09:33:28 +0000, John Hall <john_nospam@jhall.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <fmdctg12m3ilvr0cgm3oe6nf1tk5t4ftj4@4ax.com>, Mike Holmans
><spam@jackalope.uk> writes
><big snip>
>>But it is also important to recognise what one is entitled to expect if
>>Things Are Done. We can produce English cricketers. We can't produce
>>West Indian cricketers or Pakistani cricketers or Australian
>>cricketers, just as they can't produce English cricketers, because each
>>environment is different.
>
>Perhaps we should be aiming to produce NZ cricketers, where the climate
>and pitches are not dissimilar to our own. It might be worth looking to
>see what lessons we can take from the way NZ has turned its cricket
>round over the last decade or so.

Well, we have one superstar batsman and a bunch of non-entities, two
superb new ball bowlers who've been around since WG Grace and some
others who ain't bad, so we're in pretty good shape to emulate them.
And I'm damn sure we can arrange to lose at home to Bangladesh if we
put our minds to it.

Wool ut be nisserserry to adopt the iksent?

Chiz,

Moyk