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aus+uk / uk.rec.gardening / Re: Greenhouse louvre kit

SubjectAuthor
* Greenhouse louvre kitChris Hogg
`* Re: Greenhouse louvre kitJeff Layman
 `* Re: Greenhouse louvre kitChris Hogg
  `* Re: Greenhouse louvre kitJeff Layman
   `* Re: Greenhouse louvre kitAdrian Brentnall
    `* Re: Greenhouse louvre kitChris Hogg
     `* Re: Greenhouse louvre kitAdrian Brentnall
      `* Re: Greenhouse louvre kitCharlie Pridham
       `- Re: Greenhouse louvre kitAdrian Brentnall

1
Greenhouse louvre kit

<75d18h58s2kert5ca75vmsdf5d2n8s4hfo@4ax.com>

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From: me...@privacy.net (Chris Hogg)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.gardening
Subject: Greenhouse louvre kit
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 09:24:08 +0100
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 by: Chris Hogg - Sun, 15 May 2022 08:24 UTC

I am looking to fit a louvred window into an old aluminium greenhouse
that uses standard Dutch lights as the side panels. But I can only
find louvre kits for ~24" wide panels. Don't they make greenhouses to
take Dutch lights any more? Alternatively, does anyone know of a
supplier of a louvre kit that is ~28" wide to replace a Dutch light
panel?

--
Chris

Gardening in West Cornwall, very mild, sheltered
from the West, but open to the North and East.

Re: Greenhouse louvre kit

<t5qggd$t4r$1@dont-email.me>

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From: jmlay...@invalid.invalid (Jeff Layman)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.gardening
Subject: Re: Greenhouse louvre kit
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 10:18:05 +0100
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 by: Jeff Layman - Sun, 15 May 2022 09:18 UTC

On 15/05/2022 09:24, Chris Hogg wrote:
> I am looking to fit a louvred window into an old aluminium greenhouse
> that uses standard Dutch lights as the side panels. But I can only
> find louvre kits for ~24" wide panels. Don't they make greenhouses to
> take Dutch lights any more? Alternatively, does anyone know of a
> supplier of a louvre kit that is ~28" wide to replace a Dutch light
> panel?

No, but you might like to take a look at this:
<https://www.twowests.co.uk/products/louvre-kit>

If you've got a shop nearby which sells glass they could cut it to size
for you (if you wanted it toughened it would take longer). If the piece
of glass you're removing to fit the louvre is old, I doubt very much it
would be possible to cut that into correctly-sized strips as it would be
too brittle.

--

Jeff

Re: Greenhouse louvre kit

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From: me...@privacy.net (Chris Hogg)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.gardening
Subject: Re: Greenhouse louvre kit
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 22:39:23 +0100
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 by: Chris Hogg - Sun, 15 May 2022 21:39 UTC

On Sun, 15 May 2022 10:18:05 +0100, Jeff Layman
<jmlayman@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On 15/05/2022 09:24, Chris Hogg wrote:
>> I am looking to fit a louvred window into an old aluminium greenhouse
>> that uses standard Dutch lights as the side panels. But I can only
>> find louvre kits for ~24" wide panels. Don't they make greenhouses to
>> take Dutch lights any more? Alternatively, does anyone know of a
>> supplier of a louvre kit that is ~28" wide to replace a Dutch light
>> panel?
>
>No, but you might like to take a look at this:
><https://www.twowests.co.uk/products/louvre-kit>
>
>If you've got a shop nearby which sells glass they could cut it to size
>for you (if you wanted it toughened it would take longer). If the piece
>of glass you're removing to fit the louvre is old, I doubt very much it
>would be possible to cut that into correctly-sized strips as it would be
>too brittle.

Thanks Jeff. All the ones I saw had a top and bottom bar, so a fixed
width, but that one is infinitely variable depending on the width of
the glazing bars.

A couple of years ago I replaced most of the glass panes with
twin-wall polycarbonate. I have some off-cuts left over which may be
OK for the louvres themselves, although whether they will transmit the
torque for one side to the other on opening and closing, I don't know.

As for cutting old glass, when I took out the old panes, most of which
were cracked or broken to some degree, a friend asked if I could cut a
few small pieces to fit gaps in their old greenhouse. I knew that
cutting old glass was well-nigh impossible using the usual method of
scoring with a diamond scribe (I can't even do it with new glass!), so
I tried cutting it with a little Plasplugs diamond wheel tile saw.
Worked a treat, although the panes did need lots of support using
off-cuts of 2x4 and all laid out on the garage floor.

--
Chris

Gardening in West Cornwall, very mild, sheltered
from the West, but open to the North and East.

Re: Greenhouse louvre kit

<t5st8m$k25$1@dont-email.me>

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From: jmlay...@invalid.invalid (Jeff Layman)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.gardening
Subject: Re: Greenhouse louvre kit
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 08:08:06 +0100
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 by: Jeff Layman - Mon, 16 May 2022 07:08 UTC

On 15/05/2022 22:39, Chris Hogg wrote:
> On Sun, 15 May 2022 10:18:05 +0100, Jeff Layman
> <jmlayman@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 15/05/2022 09:24, Chris Hogg wrote:
>>> I am looking to fit a louvred window into an old aluminium greenhouse
>>> that uses standard Dutch lights as the side panels. But I can only
>>> find louvre kits for ~24" wide panels. Don't they make greenhouses to
>>> take Dutch lights any more? Alternatively, does anyone know of a
>>> supplier of a louvre kit that is ~28" wide to replace a Dutch light
>>> panel?
>>
>> No, but you might like to take a look at this:
>> <https://www.twowests.co.uk/products/louvre-kit>
>>
>> If you've got a shop nearby which sells glass they could cut it to size
>> for you (if you wanted it toughened it would take longer). If the piece
>> of glass you're removing to fit the louvre is old, I doubt very much it
>> would be possible to cut that into correctly-sized strips as it would be
>> too brittle.
>
> Thanks Jeff. All the ones I saw had a top and bottom bar, so a fixed
> width, but that one is infinitely variable depending on the width of
> the glazing bars.

You're welcome. I saw some other suppliers too, but they were all OOS. I
must say that it didn't seem too expensive for TWAE!

> A couple of years ago I replaced most of the glass panes with
> twin-wall polycarbonate. I have some off-cuts left over which may be
> OK for the louvres themselves, although whether they will transmit the
> torque for one side to the other on opening and closing, I don't know.

If you're willing to forego one piece of polycarbonate anything stiff
enough to transfer the movement across should do, such as a piece of
aluminium a few mm thick.

> As for cutting old glass, when I took out the old panes, most of which
> were cracked or broken to some degree, a friend asked if I could cut a
> few small pieces to fit gaps in their old greenhouse. I knew that
> cutting old glass was well-nigh impossible using the usual method of
> scoring with a diamond scribe (I can't even do it with new glass!),

It's a skill I also never learnt! When I see these glaziers on "The
Repair Shop", etc cut a curve I can't work out how they do it. :-(

so
> I tried cutting it with a little Plasplugs diamond wheel tile saw.
> Worked a treat, although the panes did need lots of support using
> off-cuts of 2x4 and all laid out on the garage floor.

I'm surprised the vibration from the saw blade didn't lead to some cracking.

--

Jeff

Re: Greenhouse louvre kit

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From: adr...@inspired-glass.com (Adrian Brentnall)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.gardening
Subject: Re: Greenhouse louvre kit
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 08:36:42 +0100
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 by: Adrian Brentnall - Tue, 17 May 2022 07:36 UTC

On 16/05/2022 08:08, Jeff Layman wrote:
> On 15/05/2022 22:39, Chris Hogg wrote:
>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 10:18:05 +0100, Jeff Layman
>> <jmlayman@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 15/05/2022 09:24, Chris Hogg wrote:
>>>> I am looking to fit a louvred window into an old aluminium greenhouse
>>>> that uses standard Dutch lights as the side panels. But I can only
>>>> find louvre kits for ~24" wide panels. Don't they make greenhouses to
>>>> take Dutch lights any more? Alternatively, does anyone know of a
>>>> supplier of a louvre kit that is ~28" wide to replace a Dutch light
>>>> panel?
>>>

<snip>

>
>> As for cutting old glass, when I took out the old panes, most of which
>> were cracked or broken to some degree, a friend asked if I could cut a
>> few small pieces to fit gaps in their old greenhouse. I knew that
>> cutting old glass was well-nigh impossible using the usual method of
>> scoring with a diamond scribe (I can't even do it with new glass!),
>
> It's a skill I also never learnt! When I see these glaziers on "The
> Repair Shop", etc cut a curve I can't work out how they do it. :-(
>

Most people who try to cut glass treat it as though they were trying to
cut something like plasterboard with a Stanley knife.

Light pressure on the cutter is the secret - you're not trying to cut
_through_ the glass - only to score a line of weakness on the surface,
so that you can encourage the glass to snap along that line..

Never, ever, score over the same line twice (if your initial score isn't
satisfactory, flip the glass over and make a better score on the other
side).
If you see glass dust along your score-line then you're pressing too hard.
You may or may not hear a 'scritch' sound as you score the glass - it's
not a reliable indication of using the right pressure.

Be sure that you glass is clean and free of debris, before trying to
make the score.
Dipping the cutter wheel in a little light oil can help.

The thing about 'old' glass being difficult to cut is a bit of an urban
myth.
I've just been rebuilding some 1860's vintage leaded panels from a local
Church, and the glass in them cuts like butter.

Re: Greenhouse louvre kit

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From: me...@privacy.net (Chris Hogg)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.gardening
Subject: Re: Greenhouse louvre kit
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 09:35:28 +0100
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 by: Chris Hogg - Tue, 17 May 2022 08:35 UTC

On Tue, 17 May 2022 08:36:42 +0100, Adrian Brentnall
<adrian@inspired-glass.com> wrote:

>On 16/05/2022 08:08, Jeff Layman wrote:
>> On 15/05/2022 22:39, Chris Hogg wrote:
>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 10:18:05 +0100, Jeff Layman
>>> <jmlayman@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>>
>>> As for cutting old glass, when I took out the old panes, most of which
>>> were cracked or broken to some degree, a friend asked if I could cut a
>>> few small pieces to fit gaps in their old greenhouse. I knew that
>>> cutting old glass was well-nigh impossible using the usual method of
>>> scoring with a diamond scribe (I can't even do it with new glass!),
>>
>> It's a skill I also never learnt! When I see these glaziers on "The
>> Repair Shop", etc cut a curve I can't work out how they do it. :-(
>>
>
>Most people who try to cut glass treat it as though they were trying to
>cut something like plasterboard with a Stanley knife.
>
>Light pressure on the cutter is the secret - you're not trying to cut
>_through_ the glass - only to score a line of weakness on the surface,
>so that you can encourage the glass to snap along that line..
>
>Never, ever, score over the same line twice (if your initial score isn't
>satisfactory, flip the glass over and make a better score on the other
>side).
>If you see glass dust along your score-line then you're pressing too hard.
>You may or may not hear a 'scritch' sound as you score the glass - it's
>not a reliable indication of using the right pressure.
>
>Be sure that you glass is clean and free of debris, before trying to
>make the score.
>Dipping the cutter wheel in a little light oil can help.
>
>
>The thing about 'old' glass being difficult to cut is a bit of an urban
>myth.
>I've just been rebuilding some 1860's vintage leaded panels from a local
>Church, and the glass in them cuts like butter.

Useful tips, but I always understood that over time, glass,
particularly glass on things like greenhouses and domestic windows,
accumulated micro-scratches due to general wear and tear that caused
the fracture line to deviate from what was intended. I can believe
that old church glass isn't subject to such wear and tear.

Either way, new or old, I'm hopeless at it!

--
Chris

Gardening in West Cornwall, very mild, sheltered
from the West, but open to the North and East.

Re: Greenhouse louvre kit

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From: adr...@inspired-glass.com (Adrian Brentnall)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.gardening
Subject: Re: Greenhouse louvre kit
Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 12:19:57 +0100
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 by: Adrian Brentnall - Wed, 18 May 2022 11:19 UTC

On 17/05/2022 09:35, Chris Hogg wrote:
> On Tue, 17 May 2022 08:36:42 +0100, Adrian Brentnall
> <adrian@inspired-glass.com> wrote:
>
>> On 16/05/2022 08:08, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>> On 15/05/2022 22:39, Chris Hogg wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 10:18:05 +0100, Jeff Layman
>>>> <jmlayman@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>> As for cutting old glass, when I took out the old panes, most of which
>>>> were cracked or broken to some degree, a friend asked if I could cut a
>>>> few small pieces to fit gaps in their old greenhouse. I knew that
>>>> cutting old glass was well-nigh impossible using the usual method of
>>>> scoring with a diamond scribe (I can't even do it with new glass!),
>>>
>>> It's a skill I also never learnt! When I see these glaziers on "The
>>> Repair Shop", etc cut a curve I can't work out how they do it. :-(
>>>
>>
>> Most people who try to cut glass treat it as though they were trying to
>> cut something like plasterboard with a Stanley knife.
>>
>> Light pressure on the cutter is the secret - you're not trying to cut
>> _through_ the glass - only to score a line of weakness on the surface,
>> so that you can encourage the glass to snap along that line..
>>
>> Never, ever, score over the same line twice (if your initial score isn't
>> satisfactory, flip the glass over and make a better score on the other
>> side).
>> If you see glass dust along your score-line then you're pressing too hard.
>> You may or may not hear a 'scritch' sound as you score the glass - it's
>> not a reliable indication of using the right pressure.
>>
>> Be sure that you glass is clean and free of debris, before trying to
>> make the score.
>> Dipping the cutter wheel in a little light oil can help.
>>
>>
>> The thing about 'old' glass being difficult to cut is a bit of an urban
>> myth.
>> I've just been rebuilding some 1860's vintage leaded panels from a local
>> Church, and the glass in them cuts like butter.
>
> Useful tips, but I always understood that over time, glass,
> particularly glass on things like greenhouses and domestic windows,
> accumulated micro-scratches due to general wear and tear that caused
> the fracture line to deviate from what was intended. I can believe
> that old church glass isn't subject to such wear and tear.
>
> Either way, new or old, I'm hopeless at it!
>

Practice is the key - looking over the shoulder of somebody who knows
what they're doing is a great help also...

Some of the old Church glass has a variety of contaminants on the
surface - picked up over the past 150 years or so... doesn't make a huge
difference to cut-ability..

One other handy tip - cold glass seems to cut less well than glass
that's had the chill taken off it (hairdryer, lean against a radiator -
that sort of thing).

Years ago, when Dad used to do a bit of small-scale picture-framing, I
remember him complaining about old glass being brittle - but looking
back on how he was doing it, and the tools he had at his disposal, I'm
surprised that he was able to cut it at all...

Re: Greenhouse louvre kit

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From: char...@roselandhouse.co.uk (Charlie Pridham)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.gardening
Subject: Re: Greenhouse louvre kit
Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 17:49:24 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Charlie Pridham - Wed, 18 May 2022 16:49 UTC

On 18/05/2022 12:19, Adrian Brentnall wrote:
> On 17/05/2022 09:35, Chris Hogg wrote:
>> On Tue, 17 May 2022 08:36:42 +0100, Adrian Brentnall
>> <adrian@inspired-glass.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 16/05/2022 08:08, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>>> On 15/05/2022 22:39, Chris Hogg wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 10:18:05 +0100, Jeff Layman
>>>>> <jmlayman@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> As for cutting old glass, when I took out the old panes, most of which
>>>>> were cracked or broken to some degree, a friend asked if I could cut a
>>>>> few small pieces to fit gaps in their old greenhouse. I knew that
>>>>> cutting old glass was well-nigh impossible using the usual method of
>>>>> scoring with a diamond scribe (I can't even do it with new glass!),
>>>>
>>>> It's a skill I also never learnt! When I see these glaziers on "The
>>>> Repair Shop", etc cut a curve I can't work out how they do it. :-(
>>>>
>>>
>>> Most people who try to cut glass treat it as though they were trying to
>>> cut something like plasterboard with a Stanley knife.
>>>
>>> Light pressure on the cutter is the secret - you're not trying to cut
>>> _through_ the glass - only to score a line of weakness on the surface,
>>> so that you can encourage the glass to snap along that line..
>>>
>>> Never, ever, score over the same line twice (if your initial score isn't
>>> satisfactory, flip the glass over and make a better score on the other
>>> side).
>>> If you see glass dust along your score-line then you're pressing too
>>> hard.
>>> You may or may not hear a 'scritch' sound as you score the glass - it's
>>> not a reliable indication of using the right pressure.
>>>
>>> Be sure that you glass is clean and free of debris, before trying to
>>> make the score.
>>> Dipping the cutter wheel in a little light oil can help.
>>>
>>>
>>> The thing about 'old' glass being difficult to cut is a bit of an urban
>>> myth.
>>> I've just been rebuilding some 1860's vintage leaded panels from a local
>>> Church, and the glass in them cuts like butter.
>>
>> Useful tips, but I always understood that over time, glass,
>> particularly glass on things like greenhouses and domestic windows,
>> accumulated micro-scratches due to general wear and tear that caused
>> the fracture line to deviate from what was intended. I can believe
>> that old church glass isn't subject to such wear and tear.
>>
>> Either way, new or old, I'm hopeless at it!
>>
>
> Practice is the key - looking over the shoulder of somebody who knows
> what they're doing is a great help also...
>
> Some of the old Church glass has a variety of contaminants on the
> surface - picked up over the past 150 years or so... doesn't make a huge
> difference to cut-ability..
>
> One other handy tip - cold glass seems to cut less well than glass
> that's had the chill taken off it (hairdryer, lean against a radiator -
> that sort of thing).
>
> Years ago, when Dad used to do a bit of small-scale picture-framing, I
> remember him complaining about old glass being brittle - but looking
> back on how he was doing it, and the tools he had at his disposal, I'm
> surprised that he was able to cut it at all...
>

Given all that useful advice I may give glass cutting another go! I have
hundreds of panes from an old greenhouse but they are seldom the right
size to replace storm damaged panes in my smaller green houses - Thank you

--
Charlie Pridham
Gardening in Cornwall
www.roselandhouse.co.uk

Re: Greenhouse louvre kit

<jel0jdF1cl0U1@mid.individual.net>

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From: adr...@inspired-glass.com (Adrian Brentnall)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.gardening
Subject: Re: Greenhouse louvre kit
Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 20:43:41 +0100
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In-Reply-To: <t6382k$1ve$1@dont-email.me>
 by: Adrian Brentnall - Wed, 18 May 2022 19:43 UTC

On 18/05/2022 17:49, Charlie Pridham wrote:
> On 18/05/2022 12:19, Adrian Brentnall wrote:
>> On 17/05/2022 09:35, Chris Hogg wrote:
>>> On Tue, 17 May 2022 08:36:42 +0100, Adrian Brentnall
>>> <adrian@inspired-glass.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 16/05/2022 08:08, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>>>> On 15/05/2022 22:39, Chris Hogg wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 10:18:05 +0100, Jeff Layman
>>>>>> <jmlayman@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> As for cutting old glass, when I took out the old panes, most of
>>>>>> which
>>>>>> were cracked or broken to some degree, a friend asked if I could
>>>>>> cut a
>>>>>> few small pieces to fit gaps in their old greenhouse. I knew that
>>>>>> cutting old glass was well-nigh impossible using the usual method of
>>>>>> scoring with a diamond scribe (I can't even do it with new glass!),
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a skill I also never learnt! When I see these glaziers on "The
>>>>> Repair Shop", etc cut a curve I can't work out how they do it. :-(
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Most people who try to cut glass treat it as though they were trying to
>>>> cut something like plasterboard with a Stanley knife.
>>>>
>>>> Light pressure on the cutter is the secret - you're not trying to cut
>>>> _through_ the glass - only to score a line of weakness on the surface,
>>>> so that you can encourage the glass to snap along that line..
>>>>
>>>> Never, ever, score over the same line twice (if your initial score
>>>> isn't
>>>> satisfactory, flip the glass over and make a better score on the other
>>>> side).
>>>> If you see glass dust along your score-line then you're pressing too
>>>> hard.
>>>> You may or may not hear a 'scritch' sound as you score the glass - it's
>>>> not a reliable indication of using the right pressure.
>>>>
>>>> Be sure that you glass is clean and free of debris, before trying to
>>>> make the score.
>>>> Dipping the cutter wheel in a little light oil can help.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The thing about 'old' glass being difficult to cut is a bit of an urban
>>>> myth.
>>>> I've just been rebuilding some 1860's vintage leaded panels from a
>>>> local
>>>> Church, and the glass in them cuts like butter.
>>>
>>> Useful tips, but I always understood that over time, glass,
>>> particularly glass on things like greenhouses and domestic windows,
>>> accumulated micro-scratches due to general wear and tear that caused
>>> the fracture line to deviate from what was intended. I can believe
>>> that old church glass isn't subject to such wear and tear.
>>>
>>> Either way, new or old, I'm hopeless at it!
>>>
>>
>> Practice is the key - looking over the shoulder of somebody who knows
>> what they're doing is a great help also...
>>
>> Some of the old Church glass has a variety of contaminants on the
>> surface - picked up over the past 150 years or so... doesn't make a
>> huge difference to cut-ability..
>>
>> One other handy tip - cold glass seems to cut less well than glass
>> that's had the chill taken off it (hairdryer, lean against a radiator
>> - that sort of thing).
>>
>> Years ago, when Dad used to do a bit of small-scale picture-framing, I
>> remember him complaining about old glass being brittle - but looking
>> back on how he was doing it, and the tools he had at his disposal, I'm
>> surprised that he was able to cut it at all...
>>
>
> Given all that useful advice I may give glass cutting another go! I have
> hundreds of panes from an old greenhouse but they are seldom the right
> size to replace storm damaged panes in my smaller green houses - Thank you
>

Plenty to practice on then! <grin>
Sacrifice some of the smaller broken pieces to get the technique right..

A handy way to get a feel for the ideal pressure on the cutter is to
take a scrap piece of glass, and run a number of parallel scores across
it - starting off with very light pressure, and increasing with each
score until you're really pressing hard at the far end.

At the 'very light' end, you'll hardly see the score-line on the glass.
At the 'heavy' end you'll see a lot of glass dust along the line.

Try running each of the scores. The very heavy scores will run off in
all sorts of odd directions - the very light ones will probably not
break at all.

Somewhere in-between - you'll find the 'sweet spot'.

So - when you score glass 'for real' - try to keep the pressure steady
and constant along the score, and the same pressure as the ones that
broke neatly...

1
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