https://finance.yahoo.com/news/waterlogged-electric-cars-imploding-florida-172415203.html

https://nypost.com/2022/10/06/electric-vehicles-catching-fire-in-florida-after-hurricane-ian/

--
https://tinyurl.com/Yosemite-Sam

FUCK PUTIN!!

On 8/10/2022 12:13 pm, yosemite sam wrote:
>
> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/waterlogged-electric-cars-imploding-florida-172415203.html
>
>
> https://nypost.com/2022/10/06/electric-vehicles-catching-fire-in-florida-after-hurricane-ian/
>
>

"Teslas" plural? That looks to be the same car in those 'stories'.

What are the actual numbers or is this just anti-EV bullshit?

--
keith on the 7 Oct 2021 wrote;
"He asserts that the claim is true, so, if
it is unproven, he is lying."

On 8/10/2022 3:13 pm, yosemite sam wrote:
>
> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/waterlogged-electric-cars-imploding-florida-172415203.html
>
>
> https://nypost.com/2022/10/06/electric-vehicles-catching-fire-in-florida-after-hurricane-ian/
>
>
Unsurprising given the battery cooling system is unlikely to work
satisfactorily after a severe dunking.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 8/10/2022 3:48 pm, Clocky wrote:
> On 8/10/2022 12:13 pm, yosemite sam wrote:
>>
>> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/waterlogged-electric-cars-imploding-florida-172415203.html
>>
>>
>> https://nypost.com/2022/10/06/electric-vehicles-catching-fire-in-florida-after-hurricane-ian/
>>
>>
>
> "Teslas" plural? That looks to be the same car in those 'stories'.

Yep, looks like one car. Teslas do have a habit of incinerating
themselves and it doesn't always require a dunking. A decent biff on the
highway will do it.
>
> What are the actual numbers or is this just anti-EV bullshit?

1, so far.

FWIW, EVs will not be taking over the world. At least not until a new
battery compound is tested and found to work much more efficaciously
than *Lithium*.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Xeno wrote:
> On 8/10/2022 3:48 pm, Clocky wrote:
>> On 8/10/2022 12:13 pm, yosemite sam wrote:
>>>
>>> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/waterlogged-electric-cars-imploding-florida-172415203.html
>>>
>>>
>>> https://nypost.com/2022/10/06/electric-vehicles-catching-fire-in-florida-after-hurricane-ian/
>>>
>>>
>>
>> "Teslas" plural? That looks to be the same car in those 'stories'.
>
> Yep, looks like one car. Teslas do have a habit of incinerating
> themselves and it doesn't always require a dunking. A decent biff on
> the highway will do it.

I was looking at one in a car park yesterday. it didn't appear to have a
rear (reversing) camera? which i thought was rather strange.

>>
>> What are the actual numbers or is this just anti-EV bullshit?
>
> 1, so far.
>
> FWIW, EVs will not be taking over the world. At least not until a new
> battery compound is tested and found to work much more efficaciously
> than *Lithium*.
>
>

--
https://tinyurl.com/Yosemite-Sam

FUCK PUTIN!!

On 8/10/2022 3:34 pm, yosemite sam wrote:
> Xeno wrote:
>> On 8/10/2022 3:48 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>> On 8/10/2022 12:13 pm, yosemite sam wrote:
>>>>
>>>> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/waterlogged-electric-cars-imploding-florida-172415203.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://nypost.com/2022/10/06/electric-vehicles-catching-fire-in-florida-after-hurricane-ian/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> "Teslas" plural? That looks to be the same car in those 'stories'.
>>
>> Yep, looks like one car. Teslas do have a habit of incinerating
>> themselves and it doesn't always require a dunking. A decent biff on
>> the highway will do it.
>
> I was looking at one in a car park yesterday. it didn't appear to have a
> rear (reversing) camera? which i thought was rather strange.
>

It's above the rear plate next to the light.

--
keith on the 7 Oct 2021 wrote;
"He asserts that the claim is true, so, if
it is unproven, he is lying."

On 8/10/2022 4:02 pm, Xeno wrote:
> On 8/10/2022 3:48 pm, Clocky wrote:
>> On 8/10/2022 12:13 pm, yosemite sam wrote:
>>>
>>> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/waterlogged-electric-cars-imploding-florida-172415203.html
>>>
>>> https://nypost.com/2022/10/06/electric-vehicles-catching-fire-in-florida-after-hurricane-ian/
>>>
>>
>> "Teslas" plural? That looks to be the same car in those 'stories'.
>
> Yep, looks like one car. Teslas do have a habit of incinerating
> themselves and it doesn't always require a dunking. A decent biff on the
> highway will do it.
>>
>> What are the actual numbers or is this just anti-EV bullshit?
>
> 1, so far.
>
> FWIW, EVs will not be taking over the world. At least not until a new
> battery compound is tested and found to work much more efficaciously
> than *Lithium*.
>
>

**Points. That new battery compound already exits - Aluminium.

Points:

* Al-Ion batteries can pack 3 times the energy into the same space as a
Li-Ion battery.
* Aluminium is cheaper, more plentiful and more recyclable than Lithium.
* Aluminium does not catch fire when exposed to water.
* There are numerous other advantages to Al-Ion batteries.

And yes, none are marketable yet. It took 23 years from concept to mass
production to bring Li-Ion batteries to market. Al-Ion batteries should
take less time, due to the huge investments made by many organisations.

One, very promising, system is being developed right here in Australia:

https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/

However, whilst BEVs certainly have their place (thanks, in no small
part to Australia's 3rd largest car importer - Tesla), the real action
will be around H2 fuel cell vehicles. Japan is embracing H2 fuel cell
technology is a very big way.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 8/10/2022 4:02 pm, Xeno wrote:
>> On 8/10/2022 3:48 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>> On 8/10/2022 12:13 pm, yosemite sam wrote:
>>>>
>>>> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/waterlogged-electric-cars-imploding-florida-172415203.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://nypost.com/2022/10/06/electric-vehicles-catching-fire-in-florida-after-hurricane-ian/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> "Teslas" plural? That looks to be the same car in those 'stories'.
>>
>> Yep, looks like one car. Teslas do have a habit of incinerating
>> themselves and it doesn't always require a dunking. A decent biff on
>> the highway will do it.
>>>
>>> What are the actual numbers or is this just anti-EV bullshit?
>>
>> 1, so far.
>>
>> FWIW, EVs will not be taking over the world. At least not until a new
>> battery compound is tested and found to work much more efficaciously
>> than *Lithium*.
>>
>>
>
> **Points. That new battery compound already exits - Aluminium.
>
> Points:
>
> * Al-Ion batteries can pack 3 times the energy into the same space as
> a Li-Ion battery.
> * Aluminium is cheaper, more plentiful and more recyclable than Lithium.
> * Aluminium does not catch fire when exposed to water.
> * There are numerous other advantages to Al-Ion batteries.

but current EV's wont be able to use them since all have non-replaceable
batteries. during most of my lifetime electric cars have been part of
science fiction, now they're reality.

>
> And yes, none are marketable yet. It took 23 years from concept to
> mass production to bring Li-Ion batteries to market. Al-Ion batteries
> should take less time, due to the huge investments made by many
> organisations.
>
> One, very promising, system is being developed right here in Australia:
>
> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
>
> However, whilst BEVs certainly have their place (thanks, in no small
> part to Australia's 3rd largest car importer - Tesla),

we hear a lot about how the pandemic destroyed many business and
families financially, and how ppl are struggling with the cost of living
and rising interest rates, but considering the number of Teslas I see on
the road there are a lot of ppl with plenty of money in Oz

> the real action will be around H2 fuel cell vehicles. Japan is
> embracing H2 fuel cell technology is a very big way.
>
>

--
https://tinyurl.com/Yosemite-Sam

FUCK PUTIN!!

On 9/10/2022 8:31 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:

> **Points. That new battery compound already exits - Aluminium.

Oh, great. Where would we go to buy one?

> Points:
>
> * Al-Ion batteries can pack 3 times the energy into the same space as a
> Li-Ion battery.
> * Aluminium is cheaper, more plentiful and more recyclable than Lithium.
> * Aluminium does not catch fire when exposed to water.
> * There are numerous other advantages to Al-Ion batteries.
>
> And yes, none are marketable yet. It took 23 years from concept to mass
> production to bring Li-Ion batteries to market. Al-Ion batteries should
> take less time, due to the huge investments made by many organisations.

You know Trev, you've been singing the praises of Al-Ion battery
technology and how it's going to change the world for some time now,
like 5 years or more, yet in spite of all that praise they *still*
haven't hit the market as a usable product.

Why do you think that is?

> One, very promising, system is being developed right here in Australia:
>
> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
>
> However, whilst BEVs certainly have their place (thanks, in no small
> part to Australia's 3rd largest car importer - Tesla),

Third largest car importer? Yeah, I don't think so....

the real action will be around H2 fuel cell vehicles. Japan is embracing
H2 fuel cell
> technology is a very big way.

Funny. I can recall saying this very thing some time ago and you
poo-pooed the idea claiming that fuel cell technology wasn't the answer
thanks to the difficultly and cost associated with setting up the
refuelling network.

I *still* maintain the belief that battery and hybrid electric cars are
nothing other than a novelty, and fuel cell will eventually become the
dominant zero emission standard.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

Clocky wrote:
> On 8/10/2022 12:13 pm, yosemite sam wrote:
>>
>> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/waterlogged-electric-cars-imploding-florida-172415203.html
>>
>>
>> https://nypost.com/2022/10/06/electric-vehicles-catching-fire-in-florida-after-hurricane-ian/
>>
>>
>
> "Teslas" plural? That looks to be the same car in those 'stories'.
>
> What are the actual numbers or is this just anti-EV bullshit?
>
>

"Fire department officials across Southwest Florida are urging electric
vehicle owners to take action after multiple EVs caught fire due to
water damage from Hurricane Ian"
https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/battling-fires-water-damaged-evs-ties-resources-hurricane-ian-recovery-florida-fire-dept-says

"Firefighters in western Florida are responding to numerous calls
concerning electric vehicle fires after they’ve been stuck in the flood
waters caused by Hurricane Ian, according to a state official"
https://www.newsnationnow.com/weather/hurricane-ian-latest/florida-official-evs-starting-fires-in-hurricane-aftermath/

--
https://tinyurl.com/Yosemite-Sam

FUCK PUTIN!!

On 9/10/2022 8:31 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 8/10/2022 4:02 pm, Xeno wrote:
>> On 8/10/2022 3:48 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>> On 8/10/2022 12:13 pm, yosemite sam wrote:
>>>>
>>>> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/waterlogged-electric-cars-imploding-florida-172415203.html
>>>>
>>>> https://nypost.com/2022/10/06/electric-vehicles-catching-fire-in-florida-after-hurricane-ian/
>>>>
>>>
>>> "Teslas" plural? That looks to be the same car in those 'stories'.
>>
>> Yep, looks like one car. Teslas do have a habit of incinerating
>> themselves and it doesn't always require a dunking. A decent biff on
>> the highway will do it.
>>>
>>> What are the actual numbers or is this just anti-EV bullshit?
>>
>> 1, so far.
>>
>> FWIW, EVs will not be taking over the world. At least not until a new
>> battery compound is tested and found to work much more efficaciously
>> than *Lithium*.
>>
>>
>
> **Points. That new battery compound already exits - Aluminium.
>
> Points:
>
> * Al-Ion batteries can pack 3 times the energy into the same space as a
> Li-Ion battery.
> * Aluminium is cheaper, more plentiful and more recyclable than Lithium.
> * Aluminium does not catch fire when exposed to water.
> * There are numerous other advantages to Al-Ion batteries.
>
> And yes, none are marketable yet. It took 23 years from concept to mass
> production to bring Li-Ion batteries to market. Al-Ion batteries should
> take less time, due to the huge investments made by many organisations.
>
> One, very promising, system is being developed right here in Australia:
>
> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
>
> However, whilst BEVs certainly have their place (thanks, in no small
> part to Australia's 3rd largest car importer - Tesla), the real action
> will be around H2 fuel cell vehicles. Japan is embracing H2 fuel cell
> technology is a very big way.
>
>
Its looking more like there being a mix of low/zero emission
technologies because one size does not fit all.
Some friends own a Tesla Model 3 and a Camry Hybrid, they are away on a
long trip interstate, despite the Tesla being capable of doing the trip
they took the Camry because they couldn't be bothered with the hassle of
finding chargers and waiting around.
BEV are great for general purpose run around vehicles but they fail
badly for hauling lots of weight mostly because it kills their range, H2
would certainly work a lot better for heavy towing.
See below how well an EV does at towing a moderate load, reduces range
by more than 50%.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nS0Fdayj8Y
If you can ignore the sarcasm and BS the video below makes some very
good points and explains with engineering and physics why EV's are no
good for towing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0V99iiEJvY

--
Daryl

On 9/10/2022 10:02 am, yosemite sam wrote:
> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 8/10/2022 4:02 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>> On 8/10/2022 3:48 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>> On 8/10/2022 12:13 pm, yosemite sam wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/waterlogged-electric-cars-imploding-florida-172415203.html
>>>>>
>>>>> https://nypost.com/2022/10/06/electric-vehicles-catching-fire-in-florida-after-hurricane-ian/
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Teslas" plural? That looks to be the same car in those 'stories'.
>>>
>>> Yep, looks like one car. Teslas do have a habit of incinerating
>>> themselves and it doesn't always require a dunking. A decent biff on
>>> the highway will do it.
>>>>
>>>> What are the actual numbers or is this just anti-EV bullshit?
>>>
>>> 1, so far.
>>>
>>> FWIW, EVs will not be taking over the world. At least not until a new
>>> battery compound is tested and found to work much more efficaciously
>>> than *Lithium*.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> **Points. That new battery compound already exits - Aluminium.
>>
>> Points:
>>
>> * Al-Ion batteries can pack 3 times the energy into the same space as
>> a Li-Ion battery.
>> * Aluminium is cheaper, more plentiful and more recyclable than Lithium.
>> * Aluminium does not catch fire when exposed to water.
>> * There are numerous other advantages to Al-Ion batteries.
>
> but current EV's wont be able to use them since all have non-replaceable
> batteries. during most of my lifetime electric cars have been part of
> science fiction, now they're reality.

**Bullshit. There is absolutely no reason why different chemistry
batteries cannot be used in existing EVs. The real catch is with the
charging system. And the monitoring systems within the car. None of
which presents major problems.

>
>>
>> And yes, none are marketable yet. It took 23 years from concept to
>> mass production to bring Li-Ion batteries to market. Al-Ion batteries
>> should take less time, due to the huge investments made by many
>> organisations.
>>
>> One, very promising, system is being developed right here in Australia:
>>
>> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
>>
>> However, whilst BEVs certainly have their place (thanks, in no small
>> part to Australia's 3rd largest car importer - Tesla),
>
>
> we hear a lot about how the pandemic destroyed many business and
> families financially, and how ppl are struggling with the cost of living
> and rising interest rates, but considering the number of Teslas I see on
> the road there are a lot of ppl with plenty of money in Oz

**Sure. People weren't spending their money on overseas holidays.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

On 9/10/2022 10:06 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 9/10/2022 8:31 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>
>> **Points. That new battery compound already exits - Aluminium.
>
> Oh, great. Where would we go to buy one?
>
>> Points:
>>
>> * Al-Ion batteries can pack 3 times the energy into the same space as
>> a Li-Ion battery.
>> * Aluminium is cheaper, more plentiful and more recyclable than Lithium.
>> * Aluminium does not catch fire when exposed to water.
>> * There are numerous other advantages to Al-Ion batteries.
>>
>> And yes, none are marketable yet. It took 23 years from concept to
>> mass production to bring Li-Ion batteries to market. Al-Ion batteries
>> should take less time, due to the huge investments made by many
>> organisations.
>
> You know Trev, you've been singing the praises of Al-Ion battery
> technology and how it's going to change the world for some time now,
> like 5 years or more, yet in spite of all that praise they *still*
> haven't hit the market as a usable product.

**TWENTY THREE YEARS is the time it took for Li-Ion batteries to reach
marketing stage.

>
> Why do you think that is?

**All the problems have not yet been solved. Yet.

>
>> One, very promising, system is being developed right here in Australia:
>>
>> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
>>
>> However, whilst BEVs certainly have their place (thanks, in no small
>> part to Australia's 3rd largest car importer - Tesla),
>
> Third largest car importer? Yeah, I don't think so....

** https://www.canstarblue.com.au/vehicles/top-selling-cars/

Tesla Model Y - #3

>
> the real action will be around H2 fuel cell vehicles. Japan is embracing
> H2 fuel cell
>> technology is a very big way.
>
> Funny. I can recall saying this very thing some time ago and you
> poo-pooed the idea claiming that fuel cell technology wasn't the answer
> thanks to the difficultly and cost associated with setting up the
> refuelling network.

**Nope. I told you that operating an INTERNAL COMBUSTION engine on H2
was dumb. REALLY dumb. I also told you that there was a grand total of
ONE H2 fuel cell refuelling stations across Australia. OTOH, as of
September 2021, there were more than 3,000 public chargers, 470
Superchargers and millions of households where EVs could charge their
batteries. H2 fuel cell technology has a long way to go in Australia to
catch up with BEV chargers.

>
> I *still* maintain the belief that battery and hybrid electric cars are
> nothing other than a novelty, and fuel cell will eventually become the
> dominant zero emission standard.

**Hybrid cars will dominate the market, along with BEVs in the near
term. Hybrids make a great deal of sense for many Australians. H2 fuel
cell vehicles may or may not succeed. We need a lot more infrastructure.
A LOT MORE. Certainly, in Japan, H2 fuel cell EVs will likely be dominant.

--
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Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 9/10/2022 10:02 am, yosemite sam wrote:
>> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 8/10/2022 4:02 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>>> On 8/10/2022 3:48 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>>> On 8/10/2022 12:13 pm, yosemite sam wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/waterlogged-electric-cars-imploding-florida-172415203.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://nypost.com/2022/10/06/electric-vehicles-catching-fire-in-florida-after-hurricane-ian/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Teslas" plural? That looks to be the same car in those 'stories'.
>>>>
>>>> Yep, looks like one car. Teslas do have a habit of incinerating
>>>> themselves and it doesn't always require a dunking. A decent biff
>>>> on the highway will do it.
>>>>>
>>>>> What are the actual numbers or is this just anti-EV bullshit?
>>>>
>>>> 1, so far.
>>>>
>>>> FWIW, EVs will not be taking over the world. At least not until a
>>>> new battery compound is tested and found to work much more
>>>> efficaciously than *Lithium*.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> **Points. That new battery compound already exits - Aluminium.
>>>
>>> Points:
>>>
>>> * Al-Ion batteries can pack 3 times the energy into the same space
>>> as a Li-Ion battery.
>>> * Aluminium is cheaper, more plentiful and more recyclable than
>>> Lithium.
>>> * Aluminium does not catch fire when exposed to water.
>>> * There are numerous other advantages to Al-Ion batteries.
>>
>> but current EV's wont be able to use them since all have
>> non-replaceable batteries. during most of my lifetime electric cars
>> have been part of science fiction, now they're reality.
>
> **Bullshit.

so which EV's have replaceable batteries? that would be none afaik.

> There is absolutely no reason why different chemistry batteries cannot
> be used in existing EVs. The real catch is with the charging system.
> And the monitoring systems within the car. None of which presents
> major problems.
>
>>
>>>
>>> And yes, none are marketable yet. It took 23 years from concept to
>>> mass production to bring Li-Ion batteries to market. Al-Ion
>>> batteries should take less time, due to the huge investments made by
>>> many organisations.
>>>
>>> One, very promising, system is being developed right here in Australia:
>>>
>>> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
>>>
>>> However, whilst BEVs certainly have their place (thanks, in no small
>>> part to Australia's 3rd largest car importer - Tesla),
>>
>>
>> we hear a lot about how the pandemic destroyed many business and
>> families financially, and how ppl are struggling with the cost of
>> living and rising interest rates, but considering the number of
>> Teslas I see on the road there are a lot of ppl with plenty of money
>> in Oz
>
> **Sure. People weren't spending their money on overseas holidays.
>
>

--
https://tinyurl.com/Yosemite-Sam

FUCK PUTIN!!

On 9/10/2022 11:28 am, yosemite sam wrote:
> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 9/10/2022 10:02 am, yosemite sam wrote:
>>> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 8/10/2022 4:02 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>>>> On 8/10/2022 3:48 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>> On 8/10/2022 12:13 pm, yosemite sam wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/waterlogged-electric-cars-imploding-florida-172415203.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://nypost.com/2022/10/06/electric-vehicles-catching-fire-in-florida-after-hurricane-ian/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Teslas" plural? That looks to be the same car in those 'stories'.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yep, looks like one car. Teslas do have a habit of incinerating
>>>>> themselves and it doesn't always require a dunking. A decent biff
>>>>> on the highway will do it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What are the actual numbers or is this just anti-EV bullshit?
>>>>>
>>>>> 1, so far.
>>>>>
>>>>> FWIW, EVs will not be taking over the world. At least not until a
>>>>> new battery compound is tested and found to work much more
>>>>> efficaciously than *Lithium*.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> **Points. That new battery compound already exits - Aluminium.
>>>>
>>>> Points:
>>>>
>>>> * Al-Ion batteries can pack 3 times the energy into the same space
>>>> as a Li-Ion battery.
>>>> * Aluminium is cheaper, more plentiful and more recyclable than
>>>> Lithium.
>>>> * Aluminium does not catch fire when exposed to water.
>>>> * There are numerous other advantages to Al-Ion batteries.
>>>
>>> but current EV's wont be able to use them since all have
>>> non-replaceable batteries. during most of my lifetime electric cars
>>> have been part of science fiction, now they're reality.
>>
>> **Bullshit.
>
> so which EV's have replaceable batteries? that would be none afaik.

**ALL Teslas have replaceable batteries. I would expect that all the
others do as well. Same as Toyota hybrids. Their batteries are
replaceable too.

--
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On 9/10/2022 7:02 am, yosemite sam wrote:
> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 8/10/2022 4:02 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>> On 8/10/2022 3:48 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>> On 8/10/2022 12:13 pm, yosemite sam wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/waterlogged-electric-cars-imploding-florida-172415203.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://nypost.com/2022/10/06/electric-vehicles-catching-fire-in-florida-after-hurricane-ian/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Teslas" plural? That looks to be the same car in those 'stories'.
>>>
>>> Yep, looks like one car. Teslas do have a habit of incinerating
>>> themselves and it doesn't always require a dunking. A decent biff on
>>> the highway will do it.
>>>>
>>>> What are the actual numbers or is this just anti-EV bullshit?
>>>
>>> 1, so far.
>>>
>>> FWIW, EVs will not be taking over the world. At least not until a new
>>> battery compound is tested and found to work much more efficaciously
>>> than *Lithium*.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> **Points. That new battery compound already exits - Aluminium.
>>
>> Points:
>>
>> * Al-Ion batteries can pack 3 times the energy into the same space as
>> a Li-Ion battery.
>> * Aluminium is cheaper, more plentiful and more recyclable than Lithium.
>> * Aluminium does not catch fire when exposed to water.
>> * There are numerous other advantages to Al-Ion batteries.
>
> but current EV's wont be able to use them since all have non-replaceable
> batteries. during most of my lifetime electric cars have been part of
> science fiction, now they're reality.
>
>>
>> And yes, none are marketable yet. It took 23 years from concept to
>> mass production to bring Li-Ion batteries to market. Al-Ion batteries
>> should take less time, due to the huge investments made by many
>> organisations.
>>
>> One, very promising, system is being developed right here in Australia:
>>
>> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
>>
>> However, whilst BEVs certainly have their place (thanks, in no small
>> part to Australia's 3rd largest car importer - Tesla),
>
>
> we hear a lot about how the pandemic destroyed many business and
> families financially, and how ppl are struggling with the cost of living
> and rising interest rates, but considering the number of Teslas I see on
> the road there are a lot of ppl with plenty of money in Oz
>
>> the real action will be around H2 fuel cell vehicles. Japan is
>> embracing H2 fuel cell technology is a very big way.
>>
>>

Hydrogen has plenty of issues to overcome also.

--
keith on the 7 Oct 2021 wrote;
"He asserts that the claim is true, so, if
it is unproven, he is lying."

On 9/10/2022 8:01 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 9/10/2022 10:06 am, Noddy wrote:
>> On 9/10/2022 8:31 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>
>>> **Points. That new battery compound already exits - Aluminium.
>>
>> Oh, great. Where would we go to buy one?
>>
>>> Points:
>>>
>>> * Al-Ion batteries can pack 3 times the energy into the same space as
>>> a Li-Ion battery.
>>> * Aluminium is cheaper, more plentiful and more recyclable than Lithium.
>>> * Aluminium does not catch fire when exposed to water.
>>> * There are numerous other advantages to Al-Ion batteries.
>>>
>>> And yes, none are marketable yet. It took 23 years from concept to
>>> mass production to bring Li-Ion batteries to market. Al-Ion batteries
>>> should take less time, due to the huge investments made by many
>>> organisations.
>>
>> You know Trev, you've been singing the praises of Al-Ion battery
>> technology and how it's going to change the world for some time now,
>> like 5 years or more, yet in spite of all that praise they *still*
>> haven't hit the market as a usable product.
>
> **TWENTY THREE YEARS is the time it took for Li-Ion batteries to reach
> marketing stage.
>
>>
>> Why do you think that is?
>
>
> **All the problems have not yet been solved. Yet.
>
>>
>>> One, very promising, system is being developed right here in Australia:
>>>
>>> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
>>>
>>> However, whilst BEVs certainly have their place (thanks, in no small
>>> part to Australia's 3rd largest car importer - Tesla),
>>
>> Third largest car importer? Yeah, I don't think so....
>
> ** https://www.canstarblue.com.au/vehicles/top-selling-cars/
>
> Tesla Model Y - #3
>
>
>>
>> the real action will be around H2 fuel cell vehicles. Japan is
>> embracing H2 fuel cell
>>> technology is a very big way.
>>
>> Funny. I can recall saying this very thing some time ago and you
>> poo-pooed the idea claiming that fuel cell technology wasn't the
>> answer thanks to the difficultly and cost associated with setting up
>> the refuelling network.
>
> **Nope. I told you that operating an INTERNAL COMBUSTION engine on H2
> was dumb. REALLY dumb. I also told you that there was a grand total of
> ONE H2 fuel cell refuelling stations across Australia. OTOH, as of
> September 2021, there were more than 3,000 public chargers, 470
> Superchargers and millions of households where EVs could charge their
> batteries. H2 fuel cell technology has a long way to go in Australia to
> catch up with BEV chargers.
>
>>
>> I *still* maintain the belief that battery and hybrid electric cars
>> are nothing other than a novelty, and fuel cell will eventually become
>> the dominant zero emission standard.
>
> **Hybrid cars will dominate the market, along with BEVs in the near
> term. Hybrids make a great deal of sense for many Australians. H2 fuel
> cell vehicles may or may not succeed. We need a lot more infrastructure.
> A LOT MORE. Certainly, in Japan, H2 fuel cell EVs will likely be dominant.
>
>
>

Japan is irrelevant. There is a lot that Japan does that makes no sense
to anyone except the Japanese.

--
keith on the 7 Oct 2021 wrote;
"He asserts that the claim is true, so, if
it is unproven, he is lying."

On 9/10/2022 7:09 am, yosemite sam wrote:
> Clocky wrote:
>> On 8/10/2022 12:13 pm, yosemite sam wrote:
>>>
>>> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/waterlogged-electric-cars-imploding-florida-172415203.html
>>>
>>>
>>> https://nypost.com/2022/10/06/electric-vehicles-catching-fire-in-florida-after-hurricane-ian/
>>>
>>>
>>
>> "Teslas" plural? That looks to be the same car in those 'stories'.
>>
>> What are the actual numbers or is this just anti-EV bullshit?
>>
>>
>
>
> "Fire department officials across Southwest Florida are urging electric
> vehicle owners to take action after multiple EVs caught fire due to
> water damage from Hurricane Ian"
> https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/battling-fires-water-damaged-evs-ties-resources-hurricane-ian-recovery-florida-fire-dept-says
>
>
>
> "Firefighters in western Florida are responding to numerous calls
> concerning electric vehicle fires after they’ve been stuck in the flood
> waters caused by Hurricane Ian, according to a state official"
> https://www.newsnationnow.com/weather/hurricane-ian-latest/florida-official-evs-starting-fires-in-hurricane-aftermath/
>
>
>

All I'm seeing is the same cars getting hosed down which are not on fire
in lazy stories published by outlets pushing an anti-EV message.

--
keith on the 7 Oct 2021 wrote;
"He asserts that the claim is true, so, if
it is unproven, he is lying."

On 9/10/2022 11:01 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 9/10/2022 10:06 am, Noddy wrote:

>> You know Trev, you've been singing the praises of Al-Ion battery
>> technology and how it's going to change the world for some time now,
>> like 5 years or more, yet in spite of all that praise they *still*
>> haven't hit the market as a usable product.
>
> **TWENTY THREE YEARS is the time it took for Li-Ion batteries to reach
> marketing stage.

Yeah, I understood you the first time. But you continually bleat about
Al-Ion batteries as if they're here ready to solve the world's problems
now, and that's *not* the reality.

Is it Trev?

>> Why do you think that is?
>
> **All the problems have not yet been solved. Yet.

Yeah, that's right. It's kinda like claiming that flying cars are
fantastic. Or, at least they *will* be when someone gets around to
making them work :)

>>> However, whilst BEVs certainly have their place (thanks, in no small
>>> part to Australia's 3rd largest car importer - Tesla),
>>
>> Third largest car importer? Yeah, I don't think so....
>
> ** https://www.canstarblue.com.au/vehicles/top-selling-cars/
>
> Tesla Model Y - #3

3rd Most popular individual *model*, Trevor. Not 3rd largest car
importer based on total unit sales. MG sold more vehicles in Australia
in 2021 than Tesla, and according to this site here Tesla doesn't even
make the top ten:
>
https://www.savings.com.au/car-loans/biggest-car-manufacturers-brands-australia

Electric vehicles accounted for a paltry 1.7% of new car sales in
Australia in 2021, which is an increase of a whopping 230% on the
previous year, but it is *still* nothing but "niche" in the grand scheme.

>> Funny. I can recall saying this very thing some time ago and you
>> poo-pooed the idea claiming that fuel cell technology wasn't the
>> answer thanks to the difficultly and cost associated with setting up
>> the refuelling network.
>
> **Nope. I told you that operating an INTERNAL COMBUSTION engine on H2
> was dumb. REALLY dumb.

That was one comment you made, but that's not what I'm talking about.

> I also told you that there was a grand total of
> ONE H2 fuel cell refuelling stations across Australia. OTOH, as of
> September 2021, there were more than 3,000 public chargers, 470
> Superchargers and millions of households where EVs could charge their
> batteries. H2 fuel cell technology has a long way to go in Australia to
> catch up with BEV chargers.

Which is precisely why you claimed that fuel cells would never take off.
Your view seems to have changed somewhat in recent times.
>> I *still* maintain the belief that battery and hybrid electric cars
>> are nothing other than a novelty, and fuel cell will eventually become
>> the dominant zero emission standard.
>
> **Hybrid cars will dominate the market, along with BEVs in the near
> term.

I doubt it. They're readily available now, and while they're popularity
is increasing their overall sales figures are *remarkably* low.

Hybrids make a great deal of sense for many Australians. H2 fuel
> cell vehicles may or may not succeed. We need a lot more infrastructure.
> A LOT MORE. Certainly, in Japan, H2 fuel cell EVs will likely be dominant.

The exact same thing can be said of plug in EV's. We don't have the grid
capacity to support them in anything other than small numbers, and if we
all switched to them tomorrow the country would implode.

The problem this country faces is that we're fucked *either* way, as we
don't have the infrastructure in place to support *any* zero emissions
vehicles in large numbers which makes ridiculous policies from lunatics
like The Greens look even *more* mentally challenged.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 9/10/2022 11:54 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 9/10/2022 11:28 am, yosemite sam wrote:
>> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 9/10/2022 10:02 am, yosemite sam wrote:
>>>> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>> On 8/10/2022 4:02 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>>>>> On 8/10/2022 3:48 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>> On 8/10/2022 12:13 pm, yosemite sam wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/waterlogged-electric-cars-imploding-florida-172415203.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://nypost.com/2022/10/06/electric-vehicles-catching-fire-in-florida-after-hurricane-ian/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Teslas" plural? That looks to be the same car in those 'stories'.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yep, looks like one car. Teslas do have a habit of incinerating
>>>>>> themselves and it doesn't always require a dunking. A decent biff
>>>>>> on the highway will do it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What are the actual numbers or is this just anti-EV bullshit?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1, so far.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> FWIW, EVs will not be taking over the world. At least not until a
>>>>>> new battery compound is tested and found to work much more
>>>>>> efficaciously than *Lithium*.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> **Points. That new battery compound already exits - Aluminium.
>>>>>
>>>>> Points:
>>>>>
>>>>> * Al-Ion batteries can pack 3 times the energy into the same space
>>>>> as a Li-Ion battery.
>>>>> * Aluminium is cheaper, more plentiful and more recyclable than
>>>>> Lithium.
>>>>> * Aluminium does not catch fire when exposed to water.
>>>>> * There are numerous other advantages to Al-Ion batteries.
>>>>
>>>> but current EV's wont be able to use them since all have
>>>> non-replaceable batteries. during most of my lifetime electric cars
>>>> have been part of science fiction, now they're reality.
>>>
>>> **Bullshit.
>>
>> so which EV's have replaceable batteries? that would be none afaik.
>
> **ALL Teslas have replaceable batteries. I would expect that all the
> others do as well. Same as Toyota hybrids. Their batteries are
> replaceable too.
>
>
>
>
They all have replaceable batteries but whether or not anyone will retro
fit another type of battery when or if they become available is another
question.
--
Daryl

On 9/10/2022 11:01 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 9/10/2022 10:06 am, Noddy wrote:
>> On 9/10/2022 8:31 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>
>>> **Points. That new battery compound already exits - Aluminium.
>>
>> Oh, great. Where would we go to buy one?
>>
>>> Points:
>>>
>>> * Al-Ion batteries can pack 3 times the energy into the same space as
>>> a Li-Ion battery.
>>> * Aluminium is cheaper, more plentiful and more recyclable than Lithium.
>>> * Aluminium does not catch fire when exposed to water.
>>> * There are numerous other advantages to Al-Ion batteries.
>>>
>>> And yes, none are marketable yet. It took 23 years from concept to
>>> mass production to bring Li-Ion batteries to market. Al-Ion batteries
>>> should take less time, due to the huge investments made by many
>>> organisations.
>>
>> You know Trev, you've been singing the praises of Al-Ion battery
>> technology and how it's going to change the world for some time now,
>> like 5 years or more, yet in spite of all that praise they *still*
>> haven't hit the market as a usable product.
>
> **TWENTY THREE YEARS is the time it took for Li-Ion batteries to reach
> marketing stage.
>
>>
>> Why do you think that is?
>
>
> **All the problems have not yet been solved. Yet.
>
>>
>>> One, very promising, system is being developed right here in Australia:
>>>
>>> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
>>>
>>> However, whilst BEVs certainly have their place (thanks, in no small
>>> part to Australia's 3rd largest car importer - Tesla),
>>
>> Third largest car importer? Yeah, I don't think so....
>
> ** https://www.canstarblue.com.au/vehicles/top-selling-cars/
>
> Tesla Model Y - #3

Third best selling model in one month doesn't mean that Tesla is the
third largest importer, maybe by single model but not if the others
combine all their various models
>
>
>>
>> the real action will be around H2 fuel cell vehicles. Japan is
>> embracing H2 fuel cell
>>> technology is a very big way.
>>
>> Funny. I can recall saying this very thing some time ago and you
>> poo-pooed the idea claiming that fuel cell technology wasn't the
>> answer thanks to the difficultly and cost associated with setting up
>> the refuelling network.
>
> **Nope. I told you that operating an INTERNAL COMBUSTION engine on H2
> was dumb. REALLY dumb. I also told you that there was a grand total of
> ONE H2 fuel cell refuelling stations across Australia. OTOH, as of
> September 2021, there were more than 3,000 public chargers, 470
> Superchargers and millions of households where EVs could charge their
> batteries. H2 fuel cell technology has a long way to go in Australia to
> catch up with BEV chargers.
>
>>
>> I *still* maintain the belief that battery and hybrid electric cars
>> are nothing other than a novelty, and fuel cell will eventually become
>> the dominant zero emission standard.
>
> **Hybrid cars will dominate the market, along with BEVs in the near
> term. Hybrids make a great deal of sense for many Australians. H2 fuel
> cell vehicles may or may not succeed. We need a lot more infrastructure.
> A LOT MORE. Certainly, in Japan, H2 fuel cell EVs will likely be dominant.
>

2 of my closest friends were thinking about buying new vehicles and they
both considered EV's, one ended up buying a PHEV and the other bought a
new conventional IC car.
Neither thought that any EV made any economic or practical sense despite
both their houses having solar panels and batteries.
The friends who bought the PHEV are extremely happy with it, they can
doing their basic running around locally shopping etc on just electric
which is charged by their solar and if needed they have the IC engine as
a back up, it only has about 68km electric only range but that is
proving to be very useful, overall the PHEV seems to be the best of both
worlds at the moment but at about $53k it wasn't an economic decision,
the new i30 that my other friends bought was about $23k less.

--
Daryl

On 9/10/2022 12:31 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 9/10/2022 11:01 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 9/10/2022 10:06 am, Noddy wrote:
>
>>> You know Trev, you've been singing the praises of Al-Ion battery
>>> technology and how it's going to change the world for some time now,
>>> like 5 years or more, yet in spite of all that praise they *still*
>>> haven't hit the market as a usable product.
>>
>> **TWENTY THREE YEARS is the time it took for Li-Ion batteries to reach
>> marketing stage.
>
> Yeah, I understood you the first time. But you continually bleat about
> Al-Ion batteries as if they're here ready to solve the world's problems
> now, and that's *not* the reality.
>
> Is it Trev?
>
>>> Why do you think that is?
>>
>> **All the problems have not yet been solved. Yet.
>
> Yeah, that's right. It's kinda like claiming that flying cars are
> fantastic. Or, at least they *will* be when someone gets around to
> making them work :)
>
>>>> However, whilst BEVs certainly have their place (thanks, in no small
>>>> part to Australia's 3rd largest car importer - Tesla),
>>>
>>> Third largest car importer? Yeah, I don't think so....
>>
>> ** https://www.canstarblue.com.au/vehicles/top-selling-cars/
>>
>> Tesla Model Y - #3
>
> 3rd Most popular individual *model*, Trevor. Not 3rd largest car
> importer based on total unit sales. MG sold more vehicles in Australia
> in 2021 than Tesla, and according to this site here Tesla doesn't even
> make the top ten:
>  >
> https://www.savings.com.au/car-loans/biggest-car-manufacturers-brands-australia
>
> Electric vehicles accounted for a paltry 1.7% of new car sales in
> Australia in 2021, which is an increase of a whopping 230% on the
> previous year, but it is *still* nothing but "niche" in the grand scheme.
>
>>> Funny. I can recall saying this very thing some time ago and you
>>> poo-pooed the idea claiming that fuel cell technology wasn't the
>>> answer thanks to the difficultly and cost associated with setting up
>>> the refuelling network.
>>
>> **Nope. I told you that operating an INTERNAL COMBUSTION engine on H2
>> was dumb. REALLY dumb.
>
> That was one comment you made, but that's not what I'm talking about.
>
>> I also told you that there was a grand total of ONE H2 fuel cell
>> refuelling stations across Australia. OTOH, as of September 2021,
>> there were more than 3,000 public chargers, 470 Superchargers and
>> millions of households where EVs could charge their batteries. H2 fuel
>> cell technology has a long way to go in Australia to catch up with BEV
>> chargers.
>
> Which is precisely why you claimed that fuel cells would never take off.
> Your view seems to have changed somewhat in recent times.
>>> I *still* maintain the belief that battery and hybrid electric cars
>>> are nothing other than a novelty, and fuel cell will eventually
>>> become the dominant zero emission standard.
>>
>> **Hybrid cars will dominate the market, along with BEVs in the near term.
>
> I doubt it. They're readily available now, and while they're popularity
> is increasing their overall sales figures are *remarkably* low.
>
>  Hybrids make a great deal of sense for many Australians. H2 fuel
>> cell vehicles may or may not succeed. We need a lot more
>> infrastructure. A LOT MORE. Certainly, in Japan, H2 fuel cell EVs will
>> likely be dominant.
>
> The exact same thing can be said of plug in EV's. We don't have the grid
> capacity to support them in anything other than small numbers, and if we
> all switched to them tomorrow the country would implode.
>
> The problem this country faces is that we're fucked *either* way, as we
> don't have the infrastructure in place to support *any* zero emissions
> vehicles in large numbers which makes ridiculous policies from lunatics
> like The Greens look even *more* mentally challenged.
>
>
Even more so when Australia's total contribution to the worlds CO2
emissions is about 1.2% and emissions from private vehicles accounts for
about 10% of that 1.2% so if we all switched to zero emission vehicles
tomorrow it wouldn't make any difference.

--
Daryl

On 9/10/2022 8:31 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 8/10/2022 4:02 pm, Xeno wrote:
>> On 8/10/2022 3:48 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>> On 8/10/2022 12:13 pm, yosemite sam wrote:
>>>>
>>>> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/waterlogged-electric-cars-imploding-florida-172415203.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://nypost.com/2022/10/06/electric-vehicles-catching-fire-in-florida-after-hurricane-ian/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> "Teslas" plural? That looks to be the same car in those 'stories'.
>>
>> Yep, looks like one car. Teslas do have a habit of incinerating
>> themselves and it doesn't always require a dunking. A decent biff on
>> the highway will do it.
>>>
>>> What are the actual numbers or is this just anti-EV bullshit?
>>
>> 1, so far.
>>
>> FWIW, EVs will not be taking over the world. At least not until a new
>> battery compound is tested and found to work much more efficaciously
>> than *Lithium*.
>>
>>
>
> **Points. That new battery compound already exits - Aluminium.

The most important point, and I made it in my response cited above -
"new battery compound is *tested* and found to work" -
>
> Points:
>
> * Al-Ion batteries can pack 3 times the energy into the same space as a
> Li-Ion battery.
> * Aluminium is cheaper, more plentiful and more recyclable than Lithium.
> * Aluminium does not catch fire when exposed to water.
> * There are numerous other advantages to Al-Ion batteries.
>
> And yes, none are marketable yet. It took 23 years from concept to mass
> production to bring Li-Ion batteries to market. Al-Ion batteries should
> take less time, due to the huge investments made by many organisations.
>
> One, very promising, system is being developed right here in Australia:

Promising is all very well but we need it to be deployed *now*! We also
need *time* to upgrade the grid capacity. We don't have a lot of time
and the Libs *wasted* in excess of ten years.
>
> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
>
> However, whilst BEVs certainly have their place (thanks, in no small
> part to Australia's 3rd largest car importer - Tesla), the real action
> will be around H2 fuel cell vehicles. Japan is embracing H2 fuel cell
> technology is a very big way.

Japan, given the traffic density, is one of the places where fuel cell
technology will work well. Here, not so much except in high density
urban areas.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 9/10/2022 10:02 am, yosemite sam wrote:
> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 8/10/2022 4:02 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>> On 8/10/2022 3:48 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>> On 8/10/2022 12:13 pm, yosemite sam wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/waterlogged-electric-cars-imploding-florida-172415203.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://nypost.com/2022/10/06/electric-vehicles-catching-fire-in-florida-after-hurricane-ian/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Teslas" plural? That looks to be the same car in those 'stories'.
>>>
>>> Yep, looks like one car. Teslas do have a habit of incinerating
>>> themselves and it doesn't always require a dunking. A decent biff on
>>> the highway will do it.
>>>>
>>>> What are the actual numbers or is this just anti-EV bullshit?
>>>
>>> 1, so far.
>>>
>>> FWIW, EVs will not be taking over the world. At least not until a new
>>> battery compound is tested and found to work much more efficaciously
>>> than *Lithium*.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> **Points. That new battery compound already exits - Aluminium.
>>
>> Points:
>>
>> * Al-Ion batteries can pack 3 times the energy into the same space as
>> a Li-Ion battery.
>> * Aluminium is cheaper, more plentiful and more recyclable than Lithium.
>> * Aluminium does not catch fire when exposed to water.
>> * There are numerous other advantages to Al-Ion batteries.
>
> but current EV's wont be able to use them since all have non-replaceable
> batteries. during most of my lifetime electric cars have been part of
> science fiction, now they're reality.
>
Beg to differ. You can replace the batteries, it just *costs more* than
the residual value of the car to do so in most cases. The OEM battery
typically lasts 10 years or more so, after that length of time, the car
is close to the nadir of its resale value anyway. You can also repair
batteries by replacing individual cells - though it is a tedious task
that does require an awareness of the risks of high voltage, high
current DC electrical circuits.
>>
>> And yes, none are marketable yet. It took 23 years from concept to
>> mass production to bring Li-Ion batteries to market. Al-Ion batteries
>> should take less time, due to the huge investments made by many
>> organisations.
>>
>> One, very promising, system is being developed right here in Australia:
>>
>> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
>>
>> However, whilst BEVs certainly have their place (thanks, in no small
>> part to Australia's 3rd largest car importer - Tesla),
>
>
> we hear a lot about how the pandemic destroyed many business and
> families financially, and how ppl are struggling with the cost of living
> and rising interest rates, but considering the number of Teslas I see on
> the road there are a lot of ppl with plenty of money in Oz

Business lease arrangements usually.
>
>> the real action will be around H2 fuel cell vehicles. Japan is
>> embracing H2 fuel cell technology is a very big way.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 9/10/2022 10:06 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 9/10/2022 8:31 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>
>> **Points. That new battery compound already exits - Aluminium.
>
> Oh, great. Where would we go to buy one?
>
>> Points:
>>
>> * Al-Ion batteries can pack 3 times the energy into the same space as
>> a Li-Ion battery.
>> * Aluminium is cheaper, more plentiful and more recyclable than Lithium.
>> * Aluminium does not catch fire when exposed to water.
>> * There are numerous other advantages to Al-Ion batteries.
>>
>> And yes, none are marketable yet. It took 23 years from concept to
>> mass production to bring Li-Ion batteries to market. Al-Ion batteries
>> should take less time, due to the huge investments made by many
>> organisations.
>
> You know Trev, you've been singing the praises of Al-Ion battery
> technology and how it's going to change the world for some time now,
> like 5 years or more, yet in spite of all that praise they *still*
> haven't hit the market as a usable product.
>
> Why do you think that is?
>
>> One, very promising, system is being developed right here in Australia:
>>
>> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
>>
>> However, whilst BEVs certainly have their place (thanks, in no small
>> part to Australia's 3rd largest car importer - Tesla),
>
> Third largest car importer? Yeah, I don't think so....
>
> the real action will be around H2 fuel cell vehicles. Japan is embracing
> H2 fuel cell
>> technology is a very big way.
>
> Funny. I can recall saying this very thing some time ago and you
> poo-pooed the idea claiming that fuel cell technology wasn't the answer
> thanks to the difficultly and cost associated with setting up the
> refuelling network.
>
> I *still* maintain the belief that battery and hybrid electric cars are
> nothing other than a novelty, and fuel cell will eventually become the
> dominant zero emission standard.
>
>
No Darren, you claimed that hydrogen fuel IC engines would be the way of
the future - until you got well and truly schooled on the topic,
especially the *limitations* of hydrogen as an IC engine fuel.

So, another huge goalpost shift from you!

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)