A friend treated himself to a new Win 10 computer a couple of weeks ago.
It has just upgraded itself overnight to Win 11.

Is MSFT up to its old Win 10 automatic upgrade tricks?

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
By the time you can make ends meet they move the ends

On 23/02/2022 13:58, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>
> A friend treated himself to a new Win 10 computer a couple of weeks ago.
> It has just upgraded itself overnight to Win 11.
>
> Is MSFT up to its old Win 10 automatic upgrade tricks?
>

When my ipad automatically upgrades its OS is that also M$'s fault?

On 23/02/2022 16:54, GB wrote:
> On 23/02/2022 13:58, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>
>> A friend treated himself to a new Win 10 computer a couple of weeks
>> ago. It has just upgraded itself overnight to Win 11.
>>
>> Is MSFT up to its old Win 10 automatic upgrade tricks?
>>
>
>
> When my ipad automatically upgrades its OS is that also M$'s fault?

No

On 23/02/2022 in message <sv5osl$85e$3@dont-email.me> GB wrote:

>On 23/02/2022 13:58, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>
>>A friend treated himself to a new Win 10 computer a couple of weeks ago.
>>It has just upgraded itself overnight to Win 11.
>>
>>Is MSFT up to its old Win 10 automatic upgrade tricks?
>>
>
>
>When my ipad automatically upgrades its OS is that also M$'s fault?

I doubt MSFT has much to do with iOS. Any reason why you would send such a
moronic reply? I asked a simple question, if you don't know the answer
then move on.

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
There are 3 types of people in this world. Those who can count, and those
who can't.

On 23/02/2022 17:01, Jeff Gaines wrote:
> On 23/02/2022 in message <sv5osl$85e$3@dont-email.me> GB wrote:
>
>> On 23/02/2022 13:58, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>>
>>> A friend treated himself to a new Win 10 computer a couple of weeks
>>> ago. It has just upgraded itself overnight to Win 11.
>>>
>>> Is MSFT up to its old Win 10 automatic upgrade tricks?
>>>
>>
>>
>> When my ipad automatically upgrades its OS is that also M$'s fault?
>
> I doubt MSFT has much to do with iOS. Any reason why you would send such
> a moronic reply? I asked a simple question, if you don't know the answer
> then move on.
>
I think if your friend had changed his bios away from secure boot he/she
would have been able to keep on W10. Also note that MS have added the
requirement of a MS account for W11 pro now.

On 23/02/2022 16:54, GB wrote:
> On 23/02/2022 13:58, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>
>> A friend treated himself to a new Win 10 computer a couple of weeks
>> ago. It has just upgraded itself overnight to Win 11.
>>
>> Is MSFT up to its old Win 10 automatic upgrade tricks?
>>
>
>
> When my ipad automatically upgrades its OS is that also M$'s fault?

LMAO

On 23/02/2022 17:13, Andy wrote:
> On 23/02/2022 17:01, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>> On 23/02/2022 in message <sv5osl$85e$3@dont-email.me> GB wrote:
>>
>>> On 23/02/2022 13:58, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>>>
>>>> A friend treated himself to a new Win 10 computer a couple of weeks
>>>> ago. It has just upgraded itself overnight to Win 11.
>>>>
>>>> Is MSFT up to its old Win 10 automatic upgrade tricks?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> When my ipad automatically upgrades its OS is that also M$'s fault?
>>
>> I doubt MSFT has much to do with iOS. Any reason why you would send
>> such a moronic reply? I asked a simple question, if you don't know the
>> answer then move on.
>>
> I think if your friend had changed his bios away from secure boot he/she
> would have been able to keep on W10. Also note that MS have added the
> requirement of a MS account for W11 pro now.

All the info here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmrNG01Y9Hk

On 23/02/2022 17:13, Andy wrote:
> On 23/02/2022 17:01, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>> On 23/02/2022 in message <sv5osl$85e$3@dont-email.me> GB wrote:
>>
>>> On 23/02/2022 13:58, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>>>
>>>> A friend treated himself to a new Win 10 computer a couple of weeks
>>>> ago. It has just upgraded itself overnight to Win 11.
>>>>
>>>> Is MSFT up to its old Win 10 automatic upgrade tricks?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> When my ipad automatically upgrades its OS is that also M$'s fault?
>>
>> I doubt MSFT has much to do with iOS. Any reason why you would send
>> such a moronic reply? I asked a simple question, if you don't know
>> the answer then move on.
>>
> I think if your friend had changed his bios away from secure boot
> he/she would have been able to keep on W10. Also note that MS have
> added the requirement of a MS account for W11 pro now.

That's where they will fall over and Apple will win.

Bad move, user should always have choice of having an account or not.

On 23/02/2022 17:21, Raj Kundra wrote:
> On 23/02/2022 17:13, Andy wrote:
>> On 23/02/2022 17:01, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>> On 23/02/2022 in message <sv5osl$85e$3@dont-email.me> GB wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 23/02/2022 13:58, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> A friend treated himself to a new Win 10 computer a couple of weeks
>>>>> ago. It has just upgraded itself overnight to Win 11.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is MSFT up to its old Win 10 automatic upgrade tricks?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When my ipad automatically upgrades its OS is that also M$'s fault?
>>>
>>> I doubt MSFT has much to do with iOS. Any reason why you would send
>>> such a moronic reply? I asked a simple question, if you don't know
>>> the answer then move on.
>>>
>> I think if your friend had changed his bios away from secure boot
>> he/she would have been able to keep on W10. Also note that MS have
>> added the requirement of a MS account for W11 pro now.
>
> That's where they will fall over and Apple will win.
>
> Bad move, user should always have choice of having an account or not.
>
>
>
Agreed, I can see folk who still wish to use the os, making a one off MS
account then adding microsoft email address to it's block file.

On 23/02/2022 17:01, Jeff Gaines wrote:
> On 23/02/2022 in message <sv5osl$85e$3@dont-email.me> GB wrote:
>
>> On 23/02/2022 13:58, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>>
>>> A friend treated himself to a new Win 10 computer a couple of weeks
>>> ago. It has just upgraded itself overnight to Win 11.
>>>
>>> Is MSFT up to its old Win 10 automatic upgrade tricks?
>>>
>>
>>
>> When my ipad automatically upgrades its OS is that also M$'s fault?
>
> I doubt MSFT has much to do with iOS. Any reason why you would send such
> a moronic reply? I asked a simple question, if you don't know the answer
> then move on.
>

You asked a loaded question, implying that OS upgrades are 'trickery'.

I was merely pointing out that most OS's will upgrade automatically.
Sometimes, there's an option not to do that, but the default is usually
to upgrade. For most ordinary users, that's entirely sensible.

You haven't said in what way your friend was tricked?

On 23/02/2022 in message <sv60bc$gdd$1@dont-email.me> GB wrote:

>On 23/02/2022 17:01, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>On 23/02/2022 in message <sv5osl$85e$3@dont-email.me> GB wrote:
>>
>>>On 23/02/2022 13:58, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>>>
>>>>A friend treated himself to a new Win 10 computer a couple of weeks ago.
>>>>It has just upgraded itself overnight to Win 11.
>>>>
>>>>Is MSFT up to its old Win 10 automatic upgrade tricks?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>When my ipad automatically upgrades its OS is that also M$'s fault?
>>
>>I doubt MSFT has much to do with iOS. Any reason why you would send such
>>a moronic reply? I asked a simple question, if you don't know the answer
>>then move on.
>>
>
>You asked a loaded question, implying that OS upgrades are 'trickery'.
>
>I was merely pointing out that most OS's will upgrade automatically.
>Sometimes, there's an option not to do that, but the default is usually to
>upgrade. For most ordinary users, that's entirely sensible.
>
>You haven't said in what way your friend was tricked?

I can only assume you weren't born when we needed GWX to prevent Windows <
10 from automatically upgrading to 10. Neither Windows nor OS X had
automatically upgraded before then to a new version, in fact mu Mac Mini
M1 always asks and Windows doesn't offer (I'm on 8.1 out of choice).

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Tell me what you need, and I'll tell you how to get along without it.

On 23/02/2022 20:39, Jeff Gaines wrote:
> On 23/02/2022 in message <sv60bc$gdd$1@dont-email.me> GB wrote:
>
>> On 23/02/2022 17:01, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>> On 23/02/2022 in message <sv5osl$85e$3@dont-email.me> GB wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 23/02/2022 13:58, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> A friend treated himself to a new Win 10 computer a couple of
>>>>> weeks  ago. It has just upgraded itself overnight to Win 11.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is MSFT up to its old Win 10 automatic upgrade tricks?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When my ipad automatically upgrades its OS is that also M$'s fault?
>>>
>>> I doubt MSFT has much to do with iOS. Any reason why you would send
>>> such a moronic reply? I asked a simple question, if you don't know
>>> the answer then move on.
>>>
>>
>> You asked a loaded question, implying that OS upgrades are 'trickery'.
>>
>> I was merely pointing out that most OS's will upgrade automatically.
>> Sometimes, there's an option not to do that, but the default is
>> usually to upgrade. For most ordinary users, that's entirely sensible.
>>
>> You haven't said in what way your friend was tricked?
>
> I can only assume you weren't born when we needed GWX to prevent Windows
> < 10 from automatically upgrading to 10. Neither Windows nor OS X had
> automatically upgraded before then to a new version, in fact mu Mac Mini
> M1 always asks and Windows doesn't offer (I'm on 8.1 out of choice).
>

If you are choosing W8.1, I can see why you don't want to be challenged
about OS upgrades for yourself.

Would you agree/disagree with the notion that automatic upgrades are, on
balance, a 'good thing' for ordinary users? I'm talking about users who
care little about the OS, and who are really not at all interested in it.

Is your friend suffering terribly through using W11, btw?

On 23/02/2022 in message <sv677g$2rm$1@dont-email.me> GB wrote:

>On 23/02/2022 20:39, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>On 23/02/2022 in message <sv60bc$gdd$1@dont-email.me> GB wrote:
>>
>>>On 23/02/2022 17:01, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>>>On 23/02/2022 in message <sv5osl$85e$3@dont-email.me> GB wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On 23/02/2022 13:58, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>A friend treated himself to a new Win 10 computer a couple of weeks 
>>>>>>ago. It has just upgraded itself overnight to Win 11.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Is MSFT up to its old Win 10 automatic upgrade tricks?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>When my ipad automatically upgrades its OS is that also M$'s fault?
>>>>
>>>>I doubt MSFT has much to do with iOS. Any reason why you would send such
>>>>a moronic reply? I asked a simple question, if you don't know the answer
>>>>then move on.
>>>>
>>>
>>>You asked a loaded question, implying that OS upgrades are 'trickery'.
>>>
>>>I was merely pointing out that most OS's will upgrade automatically.
>>>Sometimes, there's an option not to do that, but the default is usually
>>>to upgrade. For most ordinary users, that's entirely sensible.
>>>
>>>You haven't said in what way your friend was tricked?
>>
>>I can only assume you weren't born when we needed GWX to prevent Windows
>>< 10 from automatically upgrading to 10. Neither Windows nor OS X had
>>automatically upgraded before then to a new version, in fact mu Mac Mini
>>M1 always asks and Windows doesn't offer (I'm on 8.1 out of choice).
>>
>
>If you are choosing W8.1, I can see why you don't want to be challenged
>about OS upgrades for yourself.
>
>Would you agree/disagree with the notion that automatic upgrades are, on
>balance, a 'good thing' for ordinary users? I'm talking about users who
>care little about the OS, and who are really not at all interested in it.
>
>Is your friend suffering terribly through using W11, btw?

I am happy to choose the OS I use and its version. It's the user's choice
as to whether to upgrade the OS version (as against normal updates which
are usually sensible).

My friend was surprised to see a version update with no choice which led
me to ask if MSFT was up to its old tricks, perfectly straightforward and
open question.

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
All things being equal, fat people use more soap

On 23/02/2022 20:59, GB wrote:
......
> Would you agree/disagree with the notion that automatic upgrades are, on
> balance, a 'good thing' for ordinary users? I'm talking about users who
> care little about the OS, and who are really not at all interested in it.

Bad thing: "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" is a handy maxim. I have a
single W10 box purely to run garmin's satnav updates. When it last did
an automatic upgrade (after a year of non-use) it took hours and finally
trashed a rather important boot file, and it took me iirc 3 days to find
what had happened and to fix it. I took extra time afterwards to disable
all future updates. And all I wanted was a quick, 5-minute satnav update!

I'm all for an OS letting the user know about possible updates. But let
the user decide if and when.

>
> Is your friend suffering terribly through using W11, btw?

--
Mike Scott
Harlow, England

On 23/02/2022 16:54, GB wrote:
> On 23/02/2022 13:58, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>
>> A friend treated himself to a new Win 10 computer a couple of weeks
>> ago. It has just upgraded itself overnight to Win 11.
>>
>> Is MSFT up to its old Win 10 automatic upgrade tricks?
>>
>
>
> When my ipad automatically upgrades its OS is that also M$'s fault?

BBC Not The Nine O' Clock News ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2QZprRgxDc

:-)

--
Adrian C

On 24 Feb 2022 at 07:10:13 GMT, "Mike Scott"
<usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> wrote:

> On 23/02/2022 20:59, GB wrote:
> .....
>> Would you agree/disagree with the notion that automatic upgrades are, on
>> balance, a 'good thing' for ordinary users? I'm talking about users who
>> care little about the OS, and who are really not at all interested in it.
>
> Bad thing: "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" is a handy maxim.

Thing is, it is broken. Most updates are security fixes.

> I have a
> single W10 box purely to run garmin's satnav updates. When it last did
> an automatic upgrade (after a year of non-use) it took hours and finally
> trashed a rather important boot file, and it took me iirc 3 days to find
> what had happened and to fix it. I took extra time afterwards to disable
> all future updates. And all I wanted was a quick, 5-minute satnav update!

Yeah, I got the same when I had a single-purpose Winbox. They don't test
all possible upgrade paths, so the safest way to update is
"continuously".

Same for their xboxes.

> I'm all for an OS letting the user know about possible updates. But let
> the user decide if and when.

With Internet connected devices, updating is mandatory vaccination level
necessary.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
"I think man is the most interesting insect on earth, don't you?"
-- Marvin the Martian

On 23/02/2022 in message <xn0negpje2x9ruv003@news.individual.net> Jeff
Gaines wrote:

>
>A friend treated himself to a new Win 10 computer a couple of weeks ago.
>It has just upgraded itself overnight to Win 11.
>
>Is MSFT up to its old Win 10 automatic upgrade tricks?

Many thanks for the replies :-)

Not sure the relevance of MSFT & iOS but friend has rolled back to Win 10,
don't now if he'll need GWXi to stop it "upgrading" again though.

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
If you ever find something you like buy a lifetime supply because they
will stop making it

On 24/02/2022 10:51, Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:
> On 24 Feb 2022 at 07:10:13 GMT, "Mike Scott"
> <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 23/02/2022 20:59, GB wrote:
>> .....
>>> Would you agree/disagree with the notion that automatic upgrades are, on
>>> balance, a 'good thing' for ordinary users? I'm talking about users who
>>> care little about the OS, and who are really not at all interested in it.
>>
>> Bad thing: "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" is a handy maxim.
>
> Thing is, it is broken. Most updates are security fixes.

Here's a sad and face-reddening tale from a few weeks ago.
I run at home a freebsd-based email and web server which I like - make
that liked - to think was secure. To which end I'd eyeball the lists of
(security) updates before installing them and keep an eye on system logs.

One update was for apache. Unfortunately in a confluence of coincidences
the version of freebsd went eol immediately after a particular apache
patch was issued; that patch introduced a nasty url back-track bug; and
being eol it sat there until I found hotmail were blocking my email
server. Spam, lots of it.

Turned out the apache bug had let someone on a German dial-up machine
put in a proxy server (pproxy.py) with inevitable bad results. Being a
*nix machine, the system damage was limited.

But - how come the apache people "fixed" something and broke it? How
come the freebsd maintainer didn't check out the patched version before
passing it on? And how could I be so over-confident?

I think my point is that patches aren't necessarily an improvement.
Blindly installing them may not be good. Witness also the W10 breakage I
mentioned before.

BTW, I dislike MS intensely, but I have to be fair and say that the
public-facing hotmail facilities look pretty decent for tracking this
sort of thing. I should add that my web server is temporarily offline
while I migrate everything to a different machine with better security
in place (a whole barrel of pain in its own right -- but does a web
server really need outbound access to port 25? Nope!).

--
Mike Scott
Harlow, England

On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 17:27:05 +0000, Andy wrote:

> On 23/02/2022 17:21, Raj Kundra wrote:
>> On 23/02/2022 17:13, Andy wrote:
>>> On 23/02/2022 17:01, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>>> On 23/02/2022 in message <sv5osl$85e$3@dont-email.me> GB wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 23/02/2022 13:58, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A friend treated himself to a new Win 10 computer a couple of weeks
>>>>>> ago. It has just upgraded itself overnight to Win 11.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is MSFT up to its old Win 10 automatic upgrade tricks?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> When my ipad automatically upgrades its OS is that also M$'s fault?
>>>>
>>>> I doubt MSFT has much to do with iOS. Any reason why you would send
>>>> such a moronic reply? I asked a simple question, if you don't know
>>>> the answer then move on.
>>>>
>>> I think if your friend had changed his bios away from secure boot
>>> he/she would have been able to keep on W10. Also note that MS have
>>> added the requirement of a MS account for W11 pro now.
>>
>> That's where they will fall over and Apple will win.
>>
>> Bad move, user should always have choice of having an account or not.
>>
>>
>>
> Agreed, I can see folk who still wish to use the os, making a one off MS
> account then adding microsoft email address to it's block file.

Work round here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUO6_hHnBAg