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aus+uk / uk.sport.cricket / The new well balanced England team

SubjectAuthor
* The new well balanced England teammax.it
+* Re: The new well balanced England teamjack fredricks
|`* Re: The new well balanced England teamJohn Hall
| +- Re: The new well balanced England teamjohnson
| +- Re: The new well balanced England teamHamish Laws
| +* Re: The new well balanced England teamjack fredricks
| |`- Re: The new well balanced England teamJohn Hall
| `* Re: The new well balanced England teamjack fredricks
|  `* Re: The new well balanced England teamHamish Laws
|   `- Re: The new well balanced England teamjack fredricks
+* Re: The new well balanced England teamJohn Hall
|`* Re: The new well balanced England teammax.it
| +* Re: The new well balanced England teamDavid North
| |`- Re: The new well balanced England teammax.it
| `* Re: The new well balanced England teamsteve hague
|  `- Re: The new well balanced England teammax.it
`- Re: The new well balanced England teammax.it

1
The new well balanced England team

<tl7l2hdoiaf5oapoktvatl77qgegr6a3lj@4ax.com>

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From: max...@tea.time (max.it)
Newsgroups: uk.sport.cricket
Subject: The new well balanced England team
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2022 01:07:26 +0000
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 by: max.it - Fri, 11 Mar 2022 01:07 UTC

I have the feeling that the management and captain are going in the
wrong direction.
They've managed to make the bowling as shite as the batting.

Collingwood appears to be 'sásta mar moc san cac'. Asked about the
performance in the conditions he said "probably one of the best I
have seen in an England shirt". - What if he's right?

max.it

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Re: The new well balanced England team

<372ee480-eeab-4075-828d-a68cb450e771n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: The new well balanced England team
From: jzfredri...@gmail.com (jack fredricks)
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 by: jack fredricks - Fri, 11 Mar 2022 06:31 UTC

England Test side won't improve until there's significant, almost radical, change in County Cricket.

Doesn't matter, though, as the average English fan doesn't seem to give a shit.

Re: The new well balanced England team

<PttqRhBY+xKiFwwG@jhall_nospamxx.co.uk>

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From: john_nos...@jhall.co.uk (John Hall)
Newsgroups: uk.sport.cricket
Subject: Re: The new well balanced England team
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2022 10:08:24 +0000
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 by: John Hall - Fri, 11 Mar 2022 10:08 UTC

In message <372ee480-eeab-4075-828d-a68cb450e771n@googlegroups.com>,
jack fredricks <jzfredricks@gmail.com> writes
>England Test side won't improve until there's significant, almost
>radical, change in County Cricket.
>
>Doesn't matter, though, as the average English fan doesn't seem to give
>a shit.

What evidence do you have for that assertion?
--
John Hall
"Home is heaven and orgies are vile,
But you *need* an orgy, once in a while."
Ogden Nash (1902-1971)

Re: The new well balanced England team

<G98oFJBd9xKiFwQC@jhall_nospamxx.co.uk>

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From: john_nos...@jhall.co.uk (John Hall)
Newsgroups: uk.sport.cricket
Subject: Re: The new well balanced England team
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2022 10:07:25 +0000
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 by: John Hall - Fri, 11 Mar 2022 10:07 UTC

In message <tl7l2hdoiaf5oapoktvatl77qgegr6a3lj@4ax.com>, max. it
<max@tea.time> writes
>
>I have the feeling that the management and captain are going in the
>wrong direction.
>They've managed to make the bowling as shite as the batting.
>
>Collingwood appears to be 'sásta mar moc san cac'. Asked about the
>performance in the conditions he said "probably one of the best I
>have seen in an England shirt". - What if he's right?

The conditions were exceptionally unhelpful, and the West Indian players
showed excellent powers of concentration (Joseph excepted), but even so
his praise is way OTT. Without Wood, the attack looked pretty toothless.
Stokes was the best of the seamers, but had to bowl an alarming amount
given that he's just come back from injury. Leach bowled pretty well in
conditions that gave him little help, and would have had better figures
if his luck with "umpire's call" LBW decisions and with the slip
catching had been better.
--
John Hall
"Home is heaven and orgies are vile,
But you *need* an orgy, once in a while."
Ogden Nash (1902-1971)

Re: The new well balanced England team

<bMGWJ.248555$u91.77510@usenetxs.com>

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Subject: Re: The new well balanced England team
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 by: johnson - Fri, 11 Mar 2022 11:54 UTC

On 2022-03-11, John Hall <john_nospam@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <372ee480-eeab-4075-828d-a68cb450e771n@googlegroups.com>,
> jack fredricks <jzfredricks@gmail.com> writes
>>England Test side won't improve until there's significant, almost
>>radical, change in County Cricket.
>>
>>Doesn't matter, though, as the average English fan doesn't seem to give
>>a shit.
>
> What evidence do you have for that assertion?

It's just another extraordinary statement from someone rather
given to making them.

Re: The new well balanced England team

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Subject: Re: The new well balanced England team
From: hamish.l...@gmail.com (Hamish Laws)
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 by: Hamish Laws - Fri, 11 Mar 2022 12:14 UTC

On Friday, March 11, 2022 at 9:16:35 PM UTC+11, John Hall wrote:
> In message <372ee480-eeab-4075...@googlegroups.com>,
> jack fredricks <jzfre...@gmail.com> writes
> >England Test side won't improve until there's significant, almost
> >radical, change in County Cricket.
> >
> >Doesn't matter, though, as the average English fan doesn't seem to give
> >a shit.
> What evidence do you have for that assertion?
>

It's his hobbyhorse...

Re: The new well balanced England team

<bthm2hlvoams00ccvv04h6dera4lmdjdbl@4ax.com>

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From: max...@tea.time (max.it)
Newsgroups: uk.sport.cricket
Subject: Re: The new well balanced England team
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2022 13:22:46 +0000
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 by: max.it - Fri, 11 Mar 2022 13:22 UTC

On Fri, 11 Mar 2022 10:07:25 +0000, John Hall
<john_nospam@jhall.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <tl7l2hdoiaf5oapoktvatl77qgegr6a3lj@4ax.com>, max. it
><max@tea.time> writes
>>
>>I have the feeling that the management and captain are going in the
>>wrong direction.
>>They've managed to make the bowling as shite as the batting.
>>
>>Collingwood appears to be 'sásta mar moc san cac'. Asked about the
>>performance in the conditions he said "probably one of the best I
>>have seen in an England shirt". - What if he's right?
>
>The conditions were exceptionally unhelpful, and the West Indian players
>showed excellent powers of concentration (Joseph excepted), but even so
>his praise is way OTT. Without Wood, the attack looked pretty toothless.
>Stokes was the best of the seamers, but had to bowl an alarming amount
>given that he's just come back from injury. Leach bowled pretty well in
>conditions that gave him little help, and would have had better figures
>if his luck with "umpire's call" LBW decisions and with the slip
>catching had been better.

I was reading in another place that the coach has gone, the manager
has gone and England haven't changed so the problem must be Root.
I think that's a bit over simplified but maybe a wee minor injury
would do Root no harm for a match or two.
The only candidates I can see for captain are Bairstow and Stokes. I
have no idea of their leadership skills but they are the most likely
to be selected in the England merry go round team.

The daggers were out for the recent pitch in Rawalpindi. It was very
flat. Ul Haq responded to the critics by telling them “Obviously when
it’s a five-day Test everyone anticipates for a result. But when we go
to Australian conditions, they don’t make pitches consulting us but
make it according to their will so I think we should see our strength
and should live up to our strength,”

It's like the cricket pitch for Goldielocks.
This pitch is too slow
This pitch is too fast
This pitch is uneven
This pitch is too flat

max.it

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Re: The new well balanced England team

<0d2e00d5-c61a-4431-9023-bce7b3a87782n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: The new well balanced England team
From: nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk (David North)
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 by: David North - Fri, 11 Mar 2022 13:56 UTC

On Friday, 11 March 2022 at 13:22:53 UTC, max.it wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Mar 2022 10:07:25 +0000, John Hall
> <john_...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >In message <tl7l2hdoiaf5oapok...@4ax.com>, max. it
> ><m...@tea.time> writes
> >>
> >>I have the feeling that the management and captain are going in the
> >>wrong direction.
> >>They've managed to make the bowling as shite as the batting.
> >>
> >>Collingwood appears to be 'sásta mar moc san cac'. Asked about the
> >>performance in the conditions he said "probably one of the best I
> >>have seen in an England shirt". - What if he's right?
> >
> >The conditions were exceptionally unhelpful, and the West Indian players
> >showed excellent powers of concentration (Joseph excepted), but even so
> >his praise is way OTT. Without Wood, the attack looked pretty toothless.
> >Stokes was the best of the seamers, but had to bowl an alarming amount
> >given that he's just come back from injury. Leach bowled pretty well in
> >conditions that gave him little help, and would have had better figures
> >if his luck with "umpire's call" LBW decisions and with the slip
> >catching had been better.
> I was reading in another place that the coach has gone, the manager
> has gone and England haven't changed so the problem must be Root.

Was whoever it was expecting an immediate transformation? Seems rather optimistic.
> I think that's a bit over simplified but maybe a wee minor injury
> would do Root no harm for a match or two.

I can't think of an injury that would prevent him from captaining but allow him to bat.

> The only candidates I can see for captain are Bairstow and Stokes. I
> have no idea of their leadership skills but they are the most likely
> to be selected in the England merry go round team.
>
> The daggers were out for the recent pitch in Rawalpindi. It was very
> flat. Ul Haq responded to the critics by telling them “Obviously when
> it’s a five-day Test everyone anticipates for a result. But when we go
> to Australian conditions, they don’t make pitches consulting us but
> make it according to their will so I think we should see our strength
> and should live up to our strength,”

So what is their strength - playing for draws on flat pitches?
--
David North

Re: The new well balanced England team

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Newsgroups: uk.sport.cricket
Subject: Re: The new well balanced England team
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 by: steve hague - Fri, 11 Mar 2022 15:43 UTC

On 11/03/2022 13:22, max.it wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Mar 2022 10:07:25 +0000, John Hall
> <john_nospam@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> In message <tl7l2hdoiaf5oapoktvatl77qgegr6a3lj@4ax.com>, max. it
>> <max@tea.time> writes
>>>
>>> I have the feeling that the management and captain are going in the
>>> wrong direction.
>>> They've managed to make the bowling as shite as the batting.
>>>
>>> Collingwood appears to be 'sásta mar moc san cac'. Asked about the
>>> performance in the conditions he said "probably one of the best I
>>> have seen in an England shirt". - What if he's right?
>>
>> The conditions were exceptionally unhelpful, and the West Indian players
>> showed excellent powers of concentration (Joseph excepted), but even so
>> his praise is way OTT. Without Wood, the attack looked pretty toothless.
>> Stokes was the best of the seamers, but had to bowl an alarming amount
>> given that he's just come back from injury. Leach bowled pretty well in
>> conditions that gave him little help, and would have had better figures
>> if his luck with "umpire's call" LBW decisions and with the slip
>> catching had been better.
>
> I was reading in another place that the coach has gone, the manager
> has gone and England haven't changed so the problem must be Root.
> I think that's a bit over simplified but maybe a wee minor injury
> would do Root no harm for a match or two.
> The only candidates I can see for captain are Bairstow and Stokes. I
> have no idea of their leadership skills but they are the most likely
> to be selected in the England merry go round team.
>
> The daggers were out for the recent pitch in Rawalpindi. It was very
> flat. Ul Haq responded to the critics by telling them “Obviously when
> it’s a five-day Test everyone anticipates for a result. But when we go
> to Australian conditions, they don’t make pitches consulting us but
> make it according to their will so I think we should see our strength
> and should live up to our strength,”
>
> It's like the cricket pitch for Goldielocks.
> This pitch is too slow
> This pitch is too fast
> This pitch is uneven
> This pitch is too flat
>
>
> max.it
>
Maybe I'm being a little simplistic here, but wasn't the technique
developed on the slow flat pitchs of Pakistan in the 1980s to bowl
yorkers as quickly as possible? We don't have bowlers as quick as Imran,
Wasim and Waqar, although Wood is getting up there when fit, but surely
hitting the pitch as close to the batsman's feet as possible is a good
option when the ball is going to lose a lot of pace when it bounces.

Re: The new well balanced England team

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Subject: Re: The new well balanced England team
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 by: max.it - Fri, 11 Mar 2022 15:58 UTC

On Fri, 11 Mar 2022 05:56:52 -0800 (PST), David North
<nospam@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

>On Friday, 11 March 2022 at 13:22:53 UTC, max.it wrote:
>> On Fri, 11 Mar 2022 10:07:25 +0000, John Hall
>> <john_...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> >In message <tl7l2hdoiaf5oapok...@4ax.com>, max. it
>> ><m...@tea.time> writes
>> >>
>> >>I have the feeling that the management and captain are going in the
>> >>wrong direction.
>> >>They've managed to make the bowling as shite as the batting.
>> >>
>> >>Collingwood appears to be 'sásta mar moc san cac'. Asked about the
>> >>performance in the conditions he said "probably one of the best I
>> >>have seen in an England shirt". - What if he's right?
>> >
>> >The conditions were exceptionally unhelpful, and the West Indian players
>> >showed excellent powers of concentration (Joseph excepted), but even so
>> >his praise is way OTT. Without Wood, the attack looked pretty toothless.
>> >Stokes was the best of the seamers, but had to bowl an alarming amount
>> >given that he's just come back from injury. Leach bowled pretty well in
>> >conditions that gave him little help, and would have had better figures
>> >if his luck with "umpire's call" LBW decisions and with the slip
>> >catching had been better.
>> I was reading in another place that the coach has gone, the manager
>> has gone and England haven't changed so the problem must be Root.
>
>Was whoever it was expecting an immediate transformation? Seems rather optimistic.

It's the high demand instant gratification world we live in.

>
>> I think that's a bit over simplified but maybe a wee minor injury
>> would do Root no harm for a match or two.
>
>I can't think of an injury that would prevent him from captaining but allow him to bat.

I was't thinking of him playing at all.
>
>> The only candidates I can see for captain are Bairstow and Stokes. I
>> have no idea of their leadership skills but they are the most likely
>> to be selected in the England merry go round team.
>>
>> The daggers were out for the recent pitch in Rawalpindi. It was very
>> flat. Ul Haq responded to the critics by telling them “Obviously when
>> it’s a five-day Test everyone anticipates for a result. But when we go
>> to Australian conditions, they don’t make pitches consulting us but
>> make it according to their will so I think we should see our strength
>> and should live up to our strength,”
>
>So what is their strength - playing for draws on flat pitches?

That's what I thought, bore the opposition out.

max.it

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Re: The new well balanced England team

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Newsgroups: uk.sport.cricket
Subject: Re: The new well balanced England team
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 by: max.it - Fri, 11 Mar 2022 19:33 UTC

On Fri, 11 Mar 2022 15:43:02 +0000, steve hague
<stevehague82@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 11/03/2022 13:22, max.it wrote:
>> On Fri, 11 Mar 2022 10:07:25 +0000, John Hall
>> <john_nospam@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <tl7l2hdoiaf5oapoktvatl77qgegr6a3lj@4ax.com>, max. it
>>> <max@tea.time> writes
>>>>
>>>> I have the feeling that the management and captain are going in the
>>>> wrong direction.
>>>> They've managed to make the bowling as shite as the batting.
>>>>
>>>> Collingwood appears to be 'sásta mar moc san cac'. Asked about the
>>>> performance in the conditions he said "probably one of the best I
>>>> have seen in an England shirt". - What if he's right?
>>>
>>> The conditions were exceptionally unhelpful, and the West Indian players
>>> showed excellent powers of concentration (Joseph excepted), but even so
>>> his praise is way OTT. Without Wood, the attack looked pretty toothless.
>>> Stokes was the best of the seamers, but had to bowl an alarming amount
>>> given that he's just come back from injury. Leach bowled pretty well in
>>> conditions that gave him little help, and would have had better figures
>>> if his luck with "umpire's call" LBW decisions and with the slip
>>> catching had been better.
>>
>> I was reading in another place that the coach has gone, the manager
>> has gone and England haven't changed so the problem must be Root.
>> I think that's a bit over simplified but maybe a wee minor injury
>> would do Root no harm for a match or two.
>> The only candidates I can see for captain are Bairstow and Stokes. I
>> have no idea of their leadership skills but they are the most likely
>> to be selected in the England merry go round team.
>>
>> The daggers were out for the recent pitch in Rawalpindi. It was very
>> flat. Ul Haq responded to the critics by telling them “Obviously when
>> it’s a five-day Test everyone anticipates for a result. But when we go
>> to Australian conditions, they don’t make pitches consulting us but
>> make it according to their will so I think we should see our strength
>> and should live up to our strength,”
>>
>> It's like the cricket pitch for Goldielocks.
>> This pitch is too slow
>> This pitch is too fast
>> This pitch is uneven
>> This pitch is too flat
>>
>>
>> max.it
>>
>Maybe I'm being a little simplistic here, but wasn't the technique
>developed on the slow flat pitchs of Pakistan in the 1980s to bowl
>yorkers as quickly as possible? We don't have bowlers as quick as Imran,
>Wasim and Waqar, although Wood is getting up there when fit, but surely
>hitting the pitch as close to the batsman's feet as possible is a good
>option when the ball is going to lose a lot of pace when it bounces.

Maybe this current pitch is the very one to get the England batting
asses in gear. It will likely sort out the feeble and fragile in the
bowling line up of both teams. What doesn't injure them makes them
fitter - probably, maybe

max.it

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Re: The new well balanced England team

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Newsgroups: uk.sport.cricket
Subject: Re: The new well balanced England team
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 by: max.it - Fri, 11 Mar 2022 21:17 UTC

On Fri, 11 Mar 2022 20:50:58 +0000, Mike Holmans <spam@jackalope.uk>
wrote:

>On Fri, 11 Mar 2022 01:07:26 +0000, max.it <max@tea.time> wrote:
>
>>
>>I have the feeling that the management and captain are going in the
>>wrong direction.
>>They've managed to make the bowling as shite as the batting.
>
>I'm not entirely sure of this. I've been wondering whether 46-4 and
>WI's openers putting on 83 fairly quickly was caused by the rule that
>England players should play the First Test of any overseas series as
>though they were only taught the rules of the game last week.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Mike

A cunning ploy to make up the lack of 'tough' warm up matches.

max.it

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Subject: Re: The new well balanced England team
From: jzfredri...@gmail.com (jack fredricks)
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 by: jack fredricks - Sat, 12 Mar 2022 01:40 UTC

On Friday, March 11, 2022 at 8:16:35 PM UTC+10, John Hall wrote:
> In message <372ee480-eeab-4075...@googlegroups.com>,
> jack fredricks <jzfre...@gmail.com> writes
> >England Test side won't improve until there's significant, almost
> >radical, change in County Cricket.
> >
> >Doesn't matter, though, as the average English fan doesn't seem to give
> >a shit.
> What evidence do you have for that assertion?

This ng.

Point to a single English fan, other than myself, demanding change and improvement.

Re: The new well balanced England team

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Subject: Re: The new well balanced England team
From: jzfredri...@gmail.com (jack fredricks)
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 by: jack fredricks - Sat, 12 Mar 2022 01:41 UTC

On Friday, March 11, 2022 at 10:51:15 PM UTC+10, Mike Holmans wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Mar 2022 10:08:24 +0000, John Hall
> <john_...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >In message <372ee480-eeab-4075...@googlegroups.com>,
> >jack fredricks <jzfre...@gmail.com> writes
> >>England Test side won't improve until there's significant, almost
> >>radical, change in County Cricket.
> >>
> >>Doesn't matter, though, as the average English fan doesn't seem to give
> >>a shit.
> >
> >What evidence do you have for that assertion?
> You and I have both commented that the English climate makes producing
> Australian-style pitches impossible. Since neither of us have come up
> with realistic proposals to change the English climate to make
> Australian-style pitches easy to produce, he has concluded that we
> don't give a shit.

Here's an example.
MH thinks if Aus-style pitches can't be achieved, no effort at all should be made to improve the pitches in CC.
I wish he'd take my position - make what improvements can be done.

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Subject: Re: The new well balanced England team
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 by: Hamish Laws - Sat, 12 Mar 2022 03:50 UTC

On Saturday, March 12, 2022 at 12:41:50 PM UTC+11, jzfre...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, March 11, 2022 at 10:51:15 PM UTC+10, Mike Holmans wrote:
> > On Fri, 11 Mar 2022 10:08:24 +0000, John Hall
> > <john_...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > >In message <372ee480-eeab-4075...@googlegroups.com>,
> > >jack fredricks <jzfre...@gmail.com> writes
> > >>England Test side won't improve until there's significant, almost
> > >>radical, change in County Cricket.
> > >>
> > >>Doesn't matter, though, as the average English fan doesn't seem to give
> > >>a shit.
> > >
> > >What evidence do you have for that assertion?
> > You and I have both commented that the English climate makes producing
> > Australian-style pitches impossible. Since neither of us have come up
> > with realistic proposals to change the English climate to make
> > Australian-style pitches easy to produce, he has concluded that we
> > don't give a shit.
> Here's an example.
> MH thinks if Aus-style pitches can't be achieved, no effort at all should be made to improve the pitches in CC.

Bullfuckingshit

> I wish he'd take my position - make what improvements can be done.

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Subject: Re: The new well balanced England team
From: jzfredri...@gmail.com (jack fredricks)
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 by: jack fredricks - Sat, 12 Mar 2022 06:51 UTC

On Saturday, March 12, 2022 at 1:50:12 PM UTC+10, hamis...@gmail.com wrote:
> Bullfuckingshit

Why don't you say that when MH grossly misrepresents my own position on CC pitch changes? Which he does every time he mentions it, even though I continually correct him.

Re: The new well balanced England team

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From: john_nos...@jhall.co.uk (John Hall)
Newsgroups: uk.sport.cricket
Subject: Re: The new well balanced England team
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2022 10:17:48 +0000
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 by: John Hall - Sat, 12 Mar 2022 10:17 UTC

In message <63d70cf2-cad3-4651-ad9c-a355a9d0177cn@googlegroups.com>,
jack fredricks <jzfredricks@gmail.com> writes
>On Friday, March 11, 2022 at 8:16:35 PM UTC+10, John Hall wrote:
>> In message <372ee480-eeab-4075...@googlegroups.com>,
>> jack fredricks <jzfre...@gmail.com> writes
>> >England Test side won't improve until there's significant, almost
>> >radical, change in County Cricket.
>> >
>> >Doesn't matter, though, as the average English fan doesn't seem to give
>> >a shit.
>> What evidence do you have for that assertion?
>
>This ng.
>
>Point to a single English fan, other than myself, demanding change and
>improvement.

Most of them. Pointing out that it's not possible to just wave a magic
wand to make the radical changes that you want, and that some of them
might not achieve the desired result anyway, is not the same as saying
that no change is needed. I think pretty much everyone is agreed that a
lot more Championship cricket needs to be played in high summer, for
example. The ECB has made a modest shift in that direction this season
but, because they are wedded to making a success of the Hundred, are
unfortunately unlikely ever to do as much to improve the schedule as
most of us want.

Incidentally, I don't think that this ng is very representative of the
average English fan. But Test matches in England attract healthy crowds,
unlike in most other Test-playing countries, which suggests that plenty
of English fans still place a high value on Test cricket.
--
John Hall
"Home is heaven and orgies are vile,
But you *need* an orgy, once in a while."
Ogden Nash (1902-1971)

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