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aus+uk / uk.sport.cricket / Re: Saqib Mahmood's debut

SubjectAuthor
* Saqib Mahmood's debutHamish Laws
+- Re: Saqib Mahmood's debutMike Holmans
`* Re: Saqib Mahmood's debutJohn Hall
 +* Re: Saqib Mahmood's debutMike Holmans
 |+* Re: Saqib Mahmood's debutmike
 ||`* Re: Saqib Mahmood's debutJohn Hall
 || `* Re: Saqib Mahmood's debutDavid North
 ||  `- Re: Saqib Mahmood's debutMike Holmans
 |`* Re: Saqib Mahmood's debutsteve hague
 | +- Re: Saqib Mahmood's debutJohn Hall
 | `- Re: Saqib Mahmood's debutMike Holmans
 +- Re: Saqib Mahmood's debutmike
 `- Re: Saqib Mahmood's debutmike

1
Saqib Mahmood's debut

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Subject: Saqib Mahmood's debut
From: hamish.l...@gmail.com (Hamish Laws)
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 by: Hamish Laws - Mon, 21 Mar 2022 02:11 UTC

He got good figures for the test, how do people rate his bowling in the match?

Re: Saqib Mahmood's debut

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From: spa...@jackalope.uk (Mike Holmans)
Newsgroups: uk.sport.cricket
Subject: Re: Saqib Mahmood's debut
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 02:22:00 +0000
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 by: Mike Holmans - Mon, 21 Mar 2022 02:22 UTC

On Sun, 20 Mar 2022 19:11:31 -0700 (PDT), Hamish Laws
<hamish.laws@gmail.com> wrote:

>He got good figures for the test, how do people rate his bowling in the match?

As I suspected would happen, he was very good in terms of line, decent
in terms of length, and got some reverse swing. He didn't get hit
except off the occasional bad ball.

I didn't see anything to dissuade me from my view that he's likely to
be a successful Test bowler.

Cheers,

Mike

Re: Saqib Mahmood's debut

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From: john_nos...@jhall.co.uk (John Hall)
Newsgroups: uk.sport.cricket
Subject: Re: Saqib Mahmood's debut
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 10:01:07 +0000
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 by: John Hall - Mon, 21 Mar 2022 10:01 UTC

In message <83616a31-87dd-4908-af47-b91b68d415f9n@googlegroups.com>,
Hamish Laws <hamish.laws@gmail.com> writes
>He got good figures for the test, how do people rate his bowling in the match?

Promising. Both he and Fisher looked more threatening than Woakes.

If the pitch in Grenada looks to be similar to those in the first two
Tests, which I feel it will, then I'd drop Woakes and give Parkinson a
go. With such flat pitches, Woakes' ability to score useful runs at
number 8 pretty much becomes an irrelevance. If they are confident in
Robinson's fitness, then I imagine he will return, either in place of
Fisher (if Parkinson plays) or of Woakes (if Parkinson isn't selected).
--
John Hall
"Home is heaven and orgies are vile,
But you *need* an orgy, once in a while."
Ogden Nash (1902-1971)

Re: Saqib Mahmood's debut

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From: spa...@jackalope.uk (Mike Holmans)
Newsgroups: uk.sport.cricket
Subject: Re: Saqib Mahmood's debut
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 17:01:30 +0000
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 by: Mike Holmans - Mon, 21 Mar 2022 17:01 UTC

On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 10:01:07 +0000, John Hall
<john_nospam@jhall.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <83616a31-87dd-4908-af47-b91b68d415f9n@googlegroups.com>,
>Hamish Laws <hamish.laws@gmail.com> writes
>>He got good figures for the test, how do people rate his bowling in the match?
>
>Promising. Both he and Fisher looked more threatening than Woakes.
>
>If the pitch in Grenada looks to be similar to those in the first two
>Tests, which I feel it will, then I'd drop Woakes and give Parkinson a
>go. With such flat pitches, Woakes' ability to score useful runs at
>number 8 pretty much becomes an irrelevance. If they are confident in
>Robinson's fitness, then I imagine he will return, either in place of
>Fisher (if Parkinson plays) or of Woakes (if Parkinson isn't selected).

Agreed.

It's entirely possible that Mahmood is the old ball bowler England
have been looking for: he's really keen on reverse swing, and Root was
very enthusiastic about his ability with it. He could be the next
Simon Jones.

Cheers,

Mike

Re: Saqib Mahmood's debut

<b98c2ae8-a1f1-4cbe-b04a-94b247ba968fn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Saqib Mahmood's debut
From: dmike...@yahoo.co.uk (mike)
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 by: mike - Mon, 21 Mar 2022 23:18 UTC

On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 5:01:32 PM UTC, Mike Holmans wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 10:01:07 +0000, John Hall
> <john_...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >In message <83616a31-87dd-4908...@googlegroups.com>,
> >Hamish Laws <hamis...@gmail.com> writes
> >>He got good figures for the test, how do people rate his bowling in the match?
> >
> >Promising. Both he and Fisher looked more threatening than Woakes.
> >
> >If the pitch in Grenada looks to be similar to those in the first two
> >Tests, which I feel it will, then I'd drop Woakes and give Parkinson a
> >go.

with hindsight parky should have been in the last match but playing 2 spinners
at bridgetown would have been a big call. i just wish they had taken a offy
rather than have to rely on root and lawrence.

I wonder if windies just want to avoid defeat in this series, or if the pitch
in grenada will be more lively. The thing is too lively and the weak batting
line up of 1 or both of these teams could be exposed. So far england
have batted first and windies has held on comfortably. Wonder what might
happen if england have to bat 2nd facing a total of over 400?

mike

Re: Saqib Mahmood's debut

<28d4a48c-f279-4d45-99c6-8c767f275319n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Saqib Mahmood's debut
From: dmike...@yahoo.co.uk (mike)
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 by: mike - Mon, 21 Mar 2022 23:31 UTC

On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 10:09:22 AM UTC, John Hall wrote:
> In message <83616a31-87dd-4908...@googlegroups.com>,
> Hamish Laws <hamis...@gmail.com> writes
> >He got good figures for the test, how do people rate his bowling in the match?
> Promising. Both he and Fisher looked more threatening than Woakes.
>
> If the pitch in Grenada looks to be similar to those in the first two
> Tests, which I feel it will, then I'd drop Woakes and give Parkinson a
> go.

with hindsight parky should have been in the last match but playing 2 spinners
at bridgetown would have been a big call. i just wish they had taken a offy
rather than have to rely on root and lawrence.

I wonder if windies just want to avoid defeat in this series, or if the pitch
in grenada will be more lively. The thing is, too lively and the weak batting
line up of 1 or both of these teams could be exposed. So far england
have batted first and windies has held on comfortably. Wonder what might
happen if england have to bat 2nd facing a total of over 400?

mike

Re: Saqib Mahmood's debut

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Subject: Re: Saqib Mahmood's debut
From: dmike...@yahoo.co.uk (mike)
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 by: mike - Mon, 21 Mar 2022 23:50 UTC

On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 10:09:22 AM UTC, John Hall wrote:
> In message <83616a31-87dd-4908...@googlegroups.com>,
> Hamish Laws <hamis...@gmail.com> writes
> >He got good figures for the test, how do people rate his bowling in the match?
> Promising. Both he and Fisher looked more threatening than Woakes.
>
> If the pitch in Grenada looks to be similar to those in the first two
> Tests, which I feel it will, then I'd drop Woakes and give Parkinson a
> go.

with hindsight parky should have been in the last match but playing 2 spinners
at bridgetown would have been a big call. i just wish they had taken a offy
rather than have to rely on root and lawrence.

I wonder if windies just want to avoid defeat in this series, or if the pitch
in grenada will be more lively. The thing is too lively and the weak batting
line up of 1 or both of these teams could be exposed. So far england
have batted first and windies has held on comfortably. Wonder what might
happen if england have to bat 2nd facing a total of over 400?

when i googled saqib, up came an article saying he bowled a bit like waqar
younis. a bit might be useful, but it might only be a bit ;)

mike

sorry if this appears more than once, i think the server is having an off day.

Re: Saqib Mahmood's debut

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From: stevehag...@gmail.com (steve hague)
Newsgroups: uk.sport.cricket
Subject: Re: Saqib Mahmood's debut
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 by: steve hague - Tue, 22 Mar 2022 07:21 UTC

On 21/03/2022 17:01, Mike Holmans wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 10:01:07 +0000, John Hall
> <john_nospam@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> In message <83616a31-87dd-4908-af47-b91b68d415f9n@googlegroups.com>,
>> Hamish Laws <hamish.laws@gmail.com> writes
>>> He got good figures for the test, how do people rate his bowling in the match?
>>
>> Promising. Both he and Fisher looked more threatening than Woakes.
>>
>> If the pitch in Grenada looks to be similar to those in the first two
>> Tests, which I feel it will, then I'd drop Woakes and give Parkinson a
>> go. With such flat pitches, Woakes' ability to score useful runs at
>> number 8 pretty much becomes an irrelevance. If they are confident in
>> Robinson's fitness, then I imagine he will return, either in place of
>> Fisher (if Parkinson plays) or of Woakes (if Parkinson isn't selected).
>
> Agreed.
>
> It's entirely possible that Mahmood is the old ball bowler England
> have been looking for: he's really keen on reverse swing, and Root was
> very enthusiastic about his ability with it. He could be the next
> Simon Jones.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Mike
I hope you're right, but from the little I've seen of him, he looks like
yet another England fast medium seamer, as does Fisher. Simon Jones was
express pace until his horrific knee injury, and learned how to bowl
reverse swing after his recuperation. Reverse swing isn't that difficult
to learn. Darren Gough wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, but he
did it well.
Steve Hague

Re: Saqib Mahmood's debut

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From: john_nos...@jhall.co.uk (John Hall)
Newsgroups: uk.sport.cricket
Subject: Re: Saqib Mahmood's debut
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 08:37:24 +0000
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 by: John Hall - Tue, 22 Mar 2022 08:37 UTC

In message <b98c2ae8-a1f1-4cbe-b04a-94b247ba968fn@googlegroups.com>,
mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>with hindsight parky should have been in the last match but playing 2
>spinners at bridgetown would have been a big call. i just wish they had
>taken a offy rather than have to rely on root and lawrence.

With WI having only one left-handed batsman in their side, the lack of
an off-spinner may not matter too much. I suppose they could have taken
Bess, but I can't see him being too effective on these pitches. Lawrence
seems to have a knack of taking wickets; I wonder if the batsmen are
distracted by his peculiar action.

>
>I wonder if windies just want to avoid defeat in this series, or if the
>pitch in grenada will be more lively.

I'm not sure that what the Windies want counts for too much, as
apparently the home island's cricket board and groundsman determine what
pitch they want, and the WICB doesn't have much say. And the island
boards want matches to last the full five days to maximise their revenue
after a lean couple of years.

> The thing is too lively and the weak batting line up of 1 or both of
>these teams could be exposed. So far england have batted first and
>windies has held on comfortably. Wonder what might happen if england
>have to bat 2nd facing a total of over 400?

Let's hope we don't find out. Though, even allowing for the docile
pitches, there have been signs of improvement in the batting: a
back-to-form Bairstow, a fully fit and firing Stokes, and Crawley and
Lawrence seem to be finding their feet at Test level.
--
John Hall
"Home is heaven and orgies are vile,
But you *need* an orgy, once in a while."
Ogden Nash (1902-1971)

Re: Saqib Mahmood's debut

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From: john_nos...@jhall.co.uk (John Hall)
Newsgroups: uk.sport.cricket
Subject: Re: Saqib Mahmood's debut
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 08:39:24 +0000
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 by: John Hall - Tue, 22 Mar 2022 08:39 UTC

In message <t1bten$c2u$1@gioia.aioe.org>, steve hague
<stevehague82@gmail.com> writes
<snip>
>Simon Jones was express pace until his horrific knee injury, and
>learned how to bowl reverse swing after his recuperation.

I'm pretty sure he was bowling reverse swing even before his injury. And
reverse swing seems to be more effective the faster the bowler is.
--
John Hall
"Home is heaven and orgies are vile,
But you *need* an orgy, once in a while."
Ogden Nash (1902-1971)

Re: Saqib Mahmood's debut

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From: spa...@jackalope.uk (Mike Holmans)
Newsgroups: uk.sport.cricket
Subject: Re: Saqib Mahmood's debut
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 11:49:55 +0000
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 by: Mike Holmans - Tue, 22 Mar 2022 11:49 UTC

On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 07:21:55 +0000, steve hague
<stevehague82@gmail.com> wrote:

>> It's entirely possible that Mahmood is the old ball bowler England
>> have been looking for: he's really keen on reverse swing, and Root was
>> very enthusiastic about his ability with it. He could be the next
>> Simon Jones.

>I hope you're right, but from the little I've seen of him, he looks like
>yet another England fast medium seamer, as does Fisher. Simon Jones was
>express pace until his horrific knee injury, and learned how to bowl
>reverse swing after his recuperation. Reverse swing isn't that difficult
>to learn. Darren Gough wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, but he
>did it well.

Note "entirely possible" and "could". The important point is that he
positively enjoys the old ball and breaking partnerships, and it's
obviously how Root intends to use him. Unlike most of the pace bowlers
we recruit, who spend their time wishing they could show what they can
really do with a new ball and are decidedly non-threatening with an
old one.

Cheers,

Mike

Re: Saqib Mahmood's debut

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Subject: Re: Saqib Mahmood's debut
From: nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk (David North)
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 by: David North - Tue, 22 Mar 2022 13:44 UTC

On Tuesday, 22 March 2022 at 08:42:47 UTC, John Hall wrote:
> Lawrence
> seems to have a knack of taking wickets;

.... of batsmen who have made big scores. His 3 Test wickets so far have been:

Will Young for 82
Nkrumah Bonner for 123
Jermaine Blackwood for 102

> I wonder if the batsmen are
> distracted by his peculiar action.

Quite possibly, especially if they are tired after batting for a long time.

Re: Saqib Mahmood's debut

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From: spa...@jackalope.uk (Mike Holmans)
Newsgroups: uk.sport.cricket
Subject: Re: Saqib Mahmood's debut
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 14:25:28 +0000
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 by: Mike Holmans - Tue, 22 Mar 2022 14:25 UTC

On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 06:44:49 -0700 (PDT), David North
<nospam@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

>On Tuesday, 22 March 2022 at 08:42:47 UTC, John Hall wrote:
>> Lawrence
>> seems to have a knack of taking wickets;
>
>... of batsmen who have made big scores. His 3 Test wickets so far have been:
>
>Will Young for 82
>Nkrumah Bonner for 123
>Jermaine Blackwood for 102
>
>> I wonder if the batsmen are
>> distracted by his peculiar action.
>
>Quite possibly, especially if they are tired after batting for a long time.

That's the point. He's a poor bowler, in that if he bowls a long
spell, he'd almost certainly go for plenty. But he's good enough to
penetrate the sloppy defence of a well-set batter who sees a
part-timer coming on and unconsciously relaxes, and having a confusing
action would help with that.

One day, he'll probably come on to dislodge someone from a 180
partnership and snaffle 5-11.

Cheers,

Mike

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