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aus+uk / uk.sport.cricket / Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored

SubjectAuthor
* Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scoredRH
`* Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scoredRH
 `* Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scoredjack fredricks
  `* Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scoredDavid North
   +* Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scoredRH
   |`* Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scoredjack fredricks
   | `* Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scoredDavid North
   |  `* Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scoredRH
   |   +* Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scoredDavid North
   |   |+- Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scoredMike Holmans
   |   |`* Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scoredRH
   |   | +* Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scoredDavid North
   |   | |+- Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scoredRH
   |   | |`- Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scoredMike Holmans
   |   | `- Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scoredDavid North
   |   `* Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scoredjack fredricks
   |    `* Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scoredRH
   |     +* Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scoredjack fredricks
   |     |`* Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scoredRH
   |     | `- Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scoredjack fredricks
   |     `* Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scoredRH
   |      `* Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scoredRH
   |       `* Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scoredRH
   |        `- Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scoredAndrew Smith
   `- Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scoredMike Holmans

1
Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored

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Subject: Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored
From: anywhere...@gmail.com (RH)
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 by: RH - Sat, 19 Mar 2022 10:46 UTC

On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 6:56:28 AM UTC, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer wrote:
> Mark Taylor, Boon, Hobbs, Hammond, Hutton, Graeme Smith, Atapattu,
> Gibbs, Slater, Barrington's runs are VALUED LESS than what they SCORED.
>
>
>
> https://www.thecricketmonthly.com/story/1301130/the-real-value-of-runs-where-joe-root-brian-lara-and-vvs-laxman-shine
>
> These players have all lost between approximately 7% and 3% of their
> career runs. In the cases of Wally Hammond, Len Hutton and Jack Hobbs,
> it is a question of their losing out in some of their bigger innings and
> the absence of real impact innings to compensate. The presence of three
> Australian batters of the 1990s on this table is intriguing, and may
> have something to do with the bowling attacks they faced.

The assessment does not include one very important factor, the quality of protective equipment especially helmets.

DRS

The other large problems are the quality of the pitches, especially the

The number of days over which Test were played - three day Tests to Timeless Tests

Whether pitches were covered, and if they were how were they covered.

The changes in the LBW law.

The changes in the no ball law

The changes in the height and breadth of the wicket.

The batsman who really excelled is FS "Jacker" Jackson who played all his Tests against Australia in England before WW1 , Tests which were 3 days and played on uncovered pitches. Yet he returned these stats

Format Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave 100s 50s

Test 20 33 4 1415 144* 48.79 5 6

He was also a decent RFM.

RH

Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored

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Subject: Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored
From: anywhere...@gmail.com (RH)
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 by: RH - Sat, 19 Mar 2022 12:29 UTC

On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 11:47:37 AM UTC, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer wrote:
> On 3/19/2022 3:46 AM, RH wrote:
> > On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 6:56:28 AM UTC, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer wrote:
> >> Mark Taylor, Boon, Hobbs, Hammond, Hutton, Graeme Smith, Atapattu,
> >> Gibbs, Slater, Barrington's runs are VALUED LESS than what they SCORED.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> https://www.thecricketmonthly.com/story/1301130/the-real-value-of-runs-where-joe-root-brian-lara-and-vvs-laxman-shine
> >>
> >> These players have all lost between approximately 7% and 3% of their
> >> career runs. In the cases of Wally Hammond, Len Hutton and Jack Hobbs,
> >> it is a question of their losing out in some of their bigger innings and
> >> the absence of real impact innings to compensate. The presence of three
> >> Australian batters of the 1990s on this table is intriguing, and may
> >> have something to do with the bowling attacks they faced.
> >
> > The assessment does not include one very important factor, the quality of protective equipment especially helmets.
> >
> > DRS
> >
> > The other large problems are the quality of the pitches, especially the
> >
> > The number of days over which Test were played - three day Tests to Timeless Tests
> >
> > Whether pitches were covered, and if they were how were they covered.
> >
> > The changes in the LBW law.
> >
> > The changes in the no ball law
> >
> > The changes in the height and breadth of the wicket.
> >
> > The batsman who really excelled is FS "Jacker" Jackson who played all his Tests against Australia in England before WW1 , Tests which were 3 days and played on uncovered pitches. Yet he returned these stats
> >
> > Format Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave 100s 50s
> >
> > Test 20 33 4 1415 144* 48.79 5 6
> >
> > He was also a decent RFM.
> >
> > RH
> >
> >
> And WHAT IS the POINT of posting Jackson's stats?
>
> He played ONLY one team Australia and all tests were in England.
>
>
> It is a KNOWN FACT overwhelming majority of players WILL have an
> INFERIOR "AWAY" record.
>
>
> The columnist considered MOST OF THE MAJOR FACTORS in his analysis.

As he ignored helmets completely and gives no indication of changes in most of the laws plus laws I can give no credence to his stats. I have emailed him and I shall post his reply in the ng if I get a reply.

AS for Jackson he is the best example of any player to have so massively exceeded the batting average of his period. RH

Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored

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Subject: Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored
From: jzfredri...@gmail.com (jack fredricks)
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 by: jack fredricks - Sat, 19 Mar 2022 22:48 UTC

On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 10:29:11 PM UTC+10, RH wrote:
> AS for Jackson he is the best example of any player to have so massively exceeded the batting average of his period. RH

LOL. Laughable.

Sir Donald Bradman would like a word.

Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored

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From: nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk (David North)
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Subject: Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored
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 by: David North - Sun, 20 Mar 2022 10:59 UTC

On 19/03/2022 22:48, jack fredricks wrote:
> On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 10:29:11 PM UTC+10, RH wrote:
>> AS for Jackson he is the best example of any player to have so massively exceeded the batting average of his period. RH
>
> LOL. Laughable.
>
> Sir Donald Bradman would like a word.

Quite. Jackson averaged a little under double the overall batting in
Tests during the period of his Test career (and the average for the
Tests that he played in, which was slightly higher than for the period
as a whole). Bradman averaged more than three times the average for his
Test career, and for his Tests.

--
David North

Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored

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Subject: Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored
From: anywhere...@gmail.com (RH)
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 by: RH - Sun, 20 Mar 2022 12:13 UTC

On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 10:59:47 AM UTC, nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk wrote:
> On 19/03/2022 22:48, jack fredricks wrote:
> > On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 10:29:11 PM UTC+10, RH wrote:
> >> AS for Jackson he is the best example of any player to have so massively exceeded the batting average of his period. RH
> >
> > LOL. Laughable.
> >
> > Sir Donald Bradman would like a word.
> Quite. Jackson averaged a little under double the overall batting in
> Tests during the period of his Test career (and the average for the
> Tests that he played in, which was slightly higher than for the period
> as a whole). Bradman averaged more than three times the average for his
> Test career, and for his Tests.

But you have to take into account difficulty of the pitches Jackson played on (all uncovered pitches) and the fact that they were three day matches. Jackson retired from Test cricket in 1905. I suspect that at the time he retired he had the highest Test average of any cricketer who had scored 1,000 Test runs. .. RH

Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored

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Subject: Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored
From: jzfredri...@gmail.com (jack fredricks)
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 by: jack fredricks - Sun, 20 Mar 2022 13:38 UTC

On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 10:13:16 PM UTC+10, RH wrote:
> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 10:59:47 AM UTC, nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk wrote:
> > On 19/03/2022 22:48, jack fredricks wrote:
> > > On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 10:29:11 PM UTC+10, RH wrote:
> > >> AS for Jackson he is the best example of any player to have so massively exceeded the batting average of his period. RH
> > >
> > > LOL. Laughable.
> > >
> > > Sir Donald Bradman would like a word.
> > Quite. Jackson averaged a little under double the overall batting in
> > Tests during the period of his Test career (and the average for the
> > Tests that he played in, which was slightly higher than for the period
> > as a whole). Bradman averaged more than three times the average for his
> > Test career, and for his Tests.
> But you have to take into account difficulty of the pitches Jackson played on (all uncovered pitches) and the fact that they were three day matches. Jackson retired from Test cricket in 1905. I suspect that at the time he retired he had the highest Test average of any cricketer who had scored 1,000 Test runs. .. RH

His peers played on the same pitches.
And he didn't "massively exceed" them. Certainly not as much as Bradman exceeded his peers.

Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored

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 by: Mike Holmans - Sun, 20 Mar 2022 14:15 UTC

On Sun, 20 Mar 2022 10:59:44 +0000, David North
<nospam@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

>On 19/03/2022 22:48, jack fredricks wrote:
>> On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 10:29:11 PM UTC+10, RH wrote:
>>> AS for Jackson he is the best example of any player to have so massively exceeded the batting average of his period. RH
>>
>> LOL. Laughable.
>>
>> Sir Donald Bradman would like a word.
>
>Quite. Jackson averaged a little under double the overall batting in
>Tests during the period of his Test career (and the average for the
>Tests that he played in, which was slightly higher than for the period
>as a whole). Bradman averaged more than three times the average for his
>Test career, and for his Tests.

Bradman was not unequivocally English and therefore doesn't count...RH

Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored

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From: nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk (David North)
Newsgroups: uk.sport.cricket
Subject: Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored
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 by: David North - Sun, 20 Mar 2022 14:15 UTC

On 20/03/2022 13:38, jack fredricks wrote:
> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 10:13:16 PM UTC+10, RH wrote:
>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 10:59:47 AM UTC, nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk wrote:
>>> On 19/03/2022 22:48, jack fredricks wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 10:29:11 PM UTC+10, RH wrote:
>>>>> AS for Jackson he is the best example of any player to have so massively exceeded the batting average of his period. RH
>>>>
>>>> LOL. Laughable.
>>>>
>>>> Sir Donald Bradman would like a word.
>>> Quite. Jackson averaged a little under double the overall batting

I missed out the word 'average' here.

>>> in
>>> Tests during the period of his Test career (and the average for the
>>> Tests that he played in, which was slightly higher than for the period
>>> as a whole). Bradman averaged more than three times the average for his
>>> Test career, and for his Tests.
>> But you have to take into account difficulty of the pitches Jackson played on (all uncovered pitches) and the fact that they were three day matches. Jackson retired from Test cricket in 1905. I suspect that at the time he retired he had the highest Test average of any cricketer who had scored 1,000 Test runs. .. RH
>
> His peers played on the same pitches.

.... and if you look at the figures for the matches he played in, as I
did, not only the same pitches, but the same duration of matches,
funnily enough.

--
David North

Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored

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Subject: Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored
From: anywhere...@gmail.com (RH)
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 by: RH - Sun, 20 Mar 2022 16:42 UTC

On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 2:15:14 PM UTC, nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk wrote:
> On 20/03/2022 13:38, jack fredricks wrote:
> > On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 10:13:16 PM UTC+10, RH wrote:
> >> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 10:59:47 AM UTC, nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk wrote:
> >>> On 19/03/2022 22:48, jack fredricks wrote:
> >>>> On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 10:29:11 PM UTC+10, RH wrote:
> >>>>> AS for Jackson he is the best example of any player to have so massively exceeded the batting average of his period. RH
> >>>>
> >>>> LOL. Laughable.
> >>>>
> >>>> Sir Donald Bradman would like a word.
> >>> Quite. Jackson averaged a little under double the overall batting
> I missed out the word 'average' here.
> >>> in
> >>> Tests during the period of his Test career (and the average for the
> >>> Tests that he played in, which was slightly higher than for the period
> >>> as a whole). Bradman averaged more than three times the average for his
> >>> Test career, and for his Tests.
> >> But you have to take into account difficulty of the pitches Jackson played on (all uncovered pitches) and the fact that they were three day matches. Jackson retired from Test cricket in 1905. I suspect that at the time he retired he had the highest Test average of any cricketer who had scored 1,000 Test runs. .. RH
> >
> > His peers played on the same pitches.
> ... and if you look at the figures for the matches he played in, as I
> did, not only the same pitches, but the same duration of matches,
> funnily enough.
>
> --
> David North

Lets make this simple. I say Jackson had the highest Test average for anyone scoring 1,000 or more runs when he retired in 1905. Do wish to challenge that claim? If so give me the details.
RH

Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored

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From: nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk (David North)
Newsgroups: uk.sport.cricket
Subject: Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2022 19:27:47 +0000
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 by: David North - Sun, 20 Mar 2022 19:27 UTC

On 20/03/2022 16:42, RH wrote:
> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 2:15:14 PM UTC, nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk wrote:
>> On 20/03/2022 13:38, jack fredricks wrote:
>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 10:13:16 PM UTC+10, RH wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 10:59:47 AM UTC, nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk wrote:
>>>>> On 19/03/2022 22:48, jack fredricks wrote:
>>>>>> On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 10:29:11 PM UTC+10, RH wrote:
>>>>>>> AS for Jackson he is the best example of any player to have so massively exceeded the batting average of his period. RH
>>>>>>
>>>>>> LOL. Laughable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sir Donald Bradman would like a word.
>>>>> Quite. Jackson averaged a little under double the overall batting
>> I missed out the word 'average' here.
>>>>> in
>>>>> Tests during the period of his Test career (and the average for the
>>>>> Tests that he played in, which was slightly higher than for the period
>>>>> as a whole). Bradman averaged more than three times the average for his
>>>>> Test career, and for his Tests.
>>>> But you have to take into account difficulty of the pitches Jackson played on (all uncovered pitches) and the fact that they were three day matches. Jackson retired from Test cricket in 1905. I suspect that at the time he retired he had the highest Test average of any cricketer who had scored 1,000 Test runs. .. RH
>>>
>>> His peers played on the same pitches.
>> ... and if you look at the figures for the matches he played in, as I
>> did, not only the same pitches, but the same duration of matches,
>> funnily enough.

> Lets make this simple. I say Jackson had the highest Test average for anyone scoring 1,000 or more runs when he retired in 1905. Do wish to challenge that claim?

No, you actually got that bit right, but so what?

.... unless when you said "AS for Jackson he is the best example of any
player to have so massively exceeded the batting average of his period",
you meant "AS for Jackson he is the best example of any player who made
1000 Test runs by the end of the 1905 season to have so massively
exceeded the batting average of his period", in which case it was not
much of a claim, not least because only 13 other batsmen had made 1000
Test runs by that time.

--
David North

Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored

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From: spa...@jackalope.uk (Mike Holmans)
Newsgroups: uk.sport.cricket
Subject: Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2022 20:07:07 +0000
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 by: Mike Holmans - Sun, 20 Mar 2022 20:07 UTC

On Sun, 20 Mar 2022 19:27:47 +0000, David North
<nospam@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

>On 20/03/2022 16:42, RH wrote:
>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 2:15:14 PM UTC, nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk wrote:
>>> On 20/03/2022 13:38, jack fredricks wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 10:13:16 PM UTC+10, RH wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 10:59:47 AM UTC, nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk wrote:
>>>>>> On 19/03/2022 22:48, jack fredricks wrote:
>>>>>>> On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 10:29:11 PM UTC+10, RH wrote:
>>>>>>>> AS for Jackson he is the best example of any player to have so massively exceeded the batting average of his period. RH
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> LOL. Laughable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sir Donald Bradman would like a word.
>>>>>> Quite. Jackson averaged a little under double the overall batting
>>> I missed out the word 'average' here.
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> Tests during the period of his Test career (and the average for the
>>>>>> Tests that he played in, which was slightly higher than for the period
>>>>>> as a whole). Bradman averaged more than three times the average for his
>>>>>> Test career, and for his Tests.
>>>>> But you have to take into account difficulty of the pitches Jackson played on (all uncovered pitches) and the fact that they were three day matches. Jackson retired from Test cricket in 1905. I suspect that at the time he retired he had the highest Test average of any cricketer who had scored 1,000 Test runs. .. RH
>>>>
>>>> His peers played on the same pitches.
>>> ... and if you look at the figures for the matches he played in, as I
>>> did, not only the same pitches, but the same duration of matches,
>>> funnily enough.
>
>> Lets make this simple. I say Jackson had the highest Test average for anyone scoring 1,000 or more runs when he retired in 1905. Do wish to challenge that claim?
>
>No, you actually got that bit right, but so what?
>
>... unless when you said "AS for Jackson he is the best example of any
>player to have so massively exceeded the batting average of his period",
>you meant "AS for Jackson he is the best example of any player who made
>1000 Test runs by the end of the 1905 season to have so massively
>exceeded the batting average of his period", in which case it was not
>much of a claim, not least because only 13 other batsmen had made 1000
>Test runs by that time.

Reminds me of Boris Johnson's regular claims to have done something
world-beating, which turn out to be true only when one disregards most
of the world.

Cheers,

Mike

Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored

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Subject: Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored
From: jzfredri...@gmail.com (jack fredricks)
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 by: jack fredricks - Sun, 20 Mar 2022 21:43 UTC

On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 2:42:44 AM UTC+10, RH wrote:
> Lets make this simple. I say Jackson had the highest Test average for anyone scoring 1,000 or more runs when he retired in 1905. Do wish to challenge that claim? If so give me the details.

Lets admit my first statement was wrong.
RH

Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored

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Subject: Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored
From: anywhere...@gmail.com (RH)
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 by: RH - Mon, 21 Mar 2022 07:37 UTC

On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 9:43:26 PM UTC, jzfre...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 2:42:44 AM UTC+10, RH wrote:
> > Lets make this simple. I say Jackson had the highest Test average for anyone scoring 1,000 or more runs when he retired in 1905. Do wish to challenge that claim? If so give me the details.
> Lets admit my first statement was wrong.
> RH

Your failure to address my claim that Jackson has the highest Test average of anyone scoring a 1,000 or more Test runs when Jackson played his last Test in 1905. noted ...RH

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Subject: Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored
From: anywhere...@gmail.com (RH)
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 by: RH - Mon, 21 Mar 2022 07:43 UTC

On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 7:27:50 PM UTC, nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk wrote:
> On 20/03/2022 16:42, RH wrote:
> > On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 2:15:14 PM UTC, nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk wrote:
> >> On 20/03/2022 13:38, jack fredricks wrote:
> >>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 10:13:16 PM UTC+10, RH wrote:
> >>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 10:59:47 AM UTC, nos...@lane-farm.fsnet..co.uk wrote:
> >>>>> On 19/03/2022 22:48, jack fredricks wrote:
> >>>>>> On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 10:29:11 PM UTC+10, RH wrote:
> >>>>>>> AS for Jackson he is the best example of any player to have so massively exceeded the batting average of his period. RH
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> LOL. Laughable.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Sir Donald Bradman would like a word.
> >>>>> Quite. Jackson averaged a little under double the overall batting
> >> I missed out the word 'average' here.
> >>>>> in
> >>>>> Tests during the period of his Test career (and the average for the
> >>>>> Tests that he played in, which was slightly higher than for the period
> >>>>> as a whole). Bradman averaged more than three times the average for his
> >>>>> Test career, and for his Tests.
> >>>> But you have to take into account difficulty of the pitches Jackson played on (all uncovered pitches) and the fact that they were three day matches. Jackson retired from Test cricket in 1905. I suspect that at the time he retired he had the highest Test average of any cricketer who had scored 1,000 Test runs. .. RH
> >>>
> >>> His peers played on the same pitches.
> >> ... and if you look at the figures for the matches he played in, as I
> >> did, not only the same pitches, but the same duration of matches,
> >> funnily enough.
> > Lets make this simple. I say Jackson had the highest Test average for anyone scoring 1,000 or more runs when he retired in 1905. Do wish to challenge that claim?
> No, you actually got that bit right, but so what?
>
> ... unless when you said "AS for Jackson he is the best example of any
> player to have so massively exceeded the batting average of his period",
> you meant "AS for Jackson he is the best example of any player who made
> 1000 Test runs by the end of the 1905 season to have so massively
> exceeded the batting average of his period", in which case it was not
> much of a claim, not least because only 13 other batsmen had made 1000
> Test runs by that time.
>
> --
> David North

Well, 13 other batsmen obtaining an inferior average is pretty good. His average of 48 would be good at any time but doing it playing 3 day Tests on uncovered pitches is outstanding.

OK, drop the number of players (since the onset of Test cricket in 1877) with Test runs in 1905 to 750 and see what you get. RH

Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored

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From: nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk (David North)
Newsgroups: uk.sport.cricket
Subject: Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 08:13:52 +0000
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 by: David North - Mon, 21 Mar 2022 08:13 UTC

On 21/03/2022 07:43, RH wrote:
> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 7:27:50 PM UTC, nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk wrote:
>> On 20/03/2022 16:42, RH wrote:
>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 2:15:14 PM UTC, nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk wrote:
>>>> On 20/03/2022 13:38, jack fredricks wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 10:13:16 PM UTC+10, RH wrote:
>>>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 10:59:47 AM UTC, nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk wrote:
>>>>>>> On 19/03/2022 22:48, jack fredricks wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 10:29:11 PM UTC+10, RH wrote:
>>>>>>>>> AS for Jackson he is the best example of any player to have so massively exceeded the batting average of his period. RH
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> LOL. Laughable.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sir Donald Bradman would like a word.
>>>>>>> Quite. Jackson averaged a little under double the overall batting
>>>> I missed out the word 'average' here.
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> Tests during the period of his Test career (and the average for the
>>>>>>> Tests that he played in, which was slightly higher than for the period
>>>>>>> as a whole). Bradman averaged more than three times the average for his
>>>>>>> Test career, and for his Tests.
>>>>>> But you have to take into account difficulty of the pitches Jackson played on (all uncovered pitches) and the fact that they were three day matches. Jackson retired from Test cricket in 1905. I suspect that at the time he retired he had the highest Test average of any cricketer who had scored 1,000 Test runs. .. RH
>>>>>
>>>>> His peers played on the same pitches.
>>>> ... and if you look at the figures for the matches he played in, as I
>>>> did, not only the same pitches, but the same duration of matches,
>>>> funnily enough.
>>> Lets make this simple. I say Jackson had the highest Test average for anyone scoring 1,000 or more runs when he retired in 1905. Do wish to challenge that claim?
>> No, you actually got that bit right, but so what?
>>
>> ... unless when you said "AS for Jackson he is the best example of any
>> player to have so massively exceeded the batting average of his period",
>> you meant "AS for Jackson he is the best example of any player who made
>> 1000 Test runs by the end of the 1905 season to have so massively
>> exceeded the batting average of his period", in which case it was not
>> much of a claim, not least because only 13 other batsmen had made 1000
>> Test runs by that time.
>
> Well, 13 other batsmen obtaining an inferior average is pretty good. His average of 48 would be good at any time but doing it playing 3 day Tests on uncovered pitches is outstanding.
>
> OK, drop the number of players (since the onset of Test cricket in 1877) with Test runs in 1905 to 750 and see what you get. RH

That adds another 11 batsmen.

Jackson had a higher average than anyone with more runs at that point
than Tip Foster's 486.

--
David North

Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored

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Subject: Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored
From: jzfredri...@gmail.com (jack fredricks)
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 by: jack fredricks - Mon, 21 Mar 2022 08:16 UTC

On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 5:37:28 PM UTC+10, RH wrote:
> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 9:43:26 PM UTC, jzfre...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 2:42:44 AM UTC+10, RH wrote:
> > > Lets make this simple. I say Jackson had the highest Test average for anyone scoring 1,000 or more runs when he retired in 1905. Do wish to challenge that claim? If so give me the details.
> > Lets admit my first statement was wrong.
> > RH
> Your failure to address my claim that Jackson has the highest Test average of anyone scoring a 1,000 or more Test runs when Jackson played his last Test in 1905. noted ...RH

What is there to address?
Your stats are right, and meaningless.

Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored

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Subject: Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored
From: anywhere...@gmail.com (RH)
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 by: RH - Mon, 21 Mar 2022 08:37 UTC

On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 8:16:18 AM UTC, jzfre...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 5:37:28 PM UTC+10, RH wrote:
> > On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 9:43:26 PM UTC, jzfre...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 2:42:44 AM UTC+10, RH wrote:
> > > > Lets make this simple. I say Jackson had the highest Test average for anyone scoring 1,000 or more runs when he retired in 1905. Do wish to challenge that claim? If so give me the details.
> > > Lets admit my first statement was wrong.
> > > RH
> > Your failure to address my claim that Jackson has the highest Test average of anyone scoring a 1,000 or more Test runs when Jackson played his last Test in 1905. noted ...RH
> What is there to address?
> Your stats are right, and meaningless.

Your refusal to address the stats noted... RH

Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored

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Subject: Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored
From: anywhere...@gmail.com (RH)
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 by: RH - Mon, 21 Mar 2022 08:51 UTC

On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 8:13:55 AM UTC, nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk wrote:
> On 21/03/2022 07:43, RH wrote:
> > On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 7:27:50 PM UTC, nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk wrote:
> >> On 20/03/2022 16:42, RH wrote:
> >>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 2:15:14 PM UTC, nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk wrote:
> >>>> On 20/03/2022 13:38, jack fredricks wrote:
> >>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 10:13:16 PM UTC+10, RH wrote:
> >>>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 10:59:47 AM UTC, nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk wrote:
> >>>>>>> On 19/03/2022 22:48, jack fredricks wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 10:29:11 PM UTC+10, RH wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> AS for Jackson he is the best example of any player to have so massively exceeded the batting average of his period. RH
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> LOL. Laughable.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Sir Donald Bradman would like a word.
> >>>>>>> Quite. Jackson averaged a little under double the overall batting
> >>>> I missed out the word 'average' here.
> >>>>>>> in
> >>>>>>> Tests during the period of his Test career (and the average for the
> >>>>>>> Tests that he played in, which was slightly higher than for the period
> >>>>>>> as a whole). Bradman averaged more than three times the average for his
> >>>>>>> Test career, and for his Tests.
> >>>>>> But you have to take into account difficulty of the pitches Jackson played on (all uncovered pitches) and the fact that they were three day matches. Jackson retired from Test cricket in 1905. I suspect that at the time he retired he had the highest Test average of any cricketer who had scored 1,000 Test runs. .. RH
> >>>>>
> >>>>> His peers played on the same pitches.
> >>>> ... and if you look at the figures for the matches he played in, as I
> >>>> did, not only the same pitches, but the same duration of matches,
> >>>> funnily enough.
> >>> Lets make this simple. I say Jackson had the highest Test average for anyone scoring 1,000 or more runs when he retired in 1905. Do wish to challenge that claim?
> >> No, you actually got that bit right, but so what?
> >>
> >> ... unless when you said "AS for Jackson he is the best example of any
> >> player to have so massively exceeded the batting average of his period",
> >> you meant "AS for Jackson he is the best example of any player who made
> >> 1000 Test runs by the end of the 1905 season to have so massively
> >> exceeded the batting average of his period", in which case it was not
> >> much of a claim, not least because only 13 other batsmen had made 1000
> >> Test runs by that time.
> >
> > Well, 13 other batsmen obtaining an inferior average is pretty good. His average of 48 would be good at any time but doing it playing 3 day Tests on uncovered pitches is outstanding.
> >
> > OK, drop the number of players (since the onset of Test cricket in 1877) with Test runs in 1905 to 750 and see what you get. RH
> That adds another 11 batsmen.
>
> Jackson had a higher average than anyone with more runs at that point
> than Tip Foster's 486.
>
>
> --
> David North

Foster is a genuinely interesting figure. His 287 in 1903/4 world record Test score stood until Andrew Sandham beat it on the 1929/30 West Indies tour.

He suffered from diabetes and died aged 36 of it in 1914

Foster's Test record

Format Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave 100s 50s
Test 8 14 1 602 287 46.30 1 1

Foster also played football 6 times for England as a centre forward

Foster FC cricketing relatives

BS Foster
(brother),
CK Foster
(nephew),
GN Foster
(brother),
HK Foster
(brother),
MK Foster
(brother),
NJA Foster
(brother),
PG Foster
(nephew),
WL Foster
(brother),
JW Greenstock
(nephew),
W Greenstock
(brother-in-law)

RH

Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored

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Subject: Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored
From: jzfredri...@gmail.com (jack fredricks)
Injection-Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 09:47:20 +0000
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 by: jack fredricks - Mon, 21 Mar 2022 09:47 UTC

On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 6:37:10 PM UTC+10, RH wrote:
> On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 8:16:18 AM UTC, jzfre...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 5:37:28 PM UTC+10, RH wrote:
> > > On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 9:43:26 PM UTC, jzfre...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 2:42:44 AM UTC+10, RH wrote:
> > > > > Lets make this simple. I say Jackson had the highest Test average for anyone scoring 1,000 or more runs when he retired in 1905. Do wish to challenge that claim? If so give me the details.
> > > > Lets admit my first statement was wrong.
> > > > RH
> > > Your failure to address my claim that Jackson has the highest Test average of anyone scoring a 1,000 or more Test runs when Jackson played his last Test in 1905. noted ...RH
> > What is there to address?
> > Your stats are right, and meaningless.
> Your refusal to address the stats noted... RH

Your stats are right. There's nothing to address.

Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored

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From: spa...@jackalope.uk (Mike Holmans)
Newsgroups: uk.sport.cricket
Subject: Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 12:18:38 +0000
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 by: Mike Holmans - Mon, 21 Mar 2022 12:18 UTC

On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 08:13:52 +0000, David North
<nospam@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

>On 21/03/2022 07:43, RH wrote:
>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 7:27:50 PM UTC, nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk wrote:
>>> On 20/03/2022 16:42, RH wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 2:15:14 PM UTC, nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk wrote:
>>>>> On 20/03/2022 13:38, jack fredricks wrote:
>>>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 10:13:16 PM UTC+10, RH wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 10:59:47 AM UTC, nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 19/03/2022 22:48, jack fredricks wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 10:29:11 PM UTC+10, RH wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> AS for Jackson he is the best example of any player to have so massively exceeded the batting average of his period. RH
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> LOL. Laughable.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sir Donald Bradman would like a word.
>>>>>>>> Quite. Jackson averaged a little under double the overall batting
>>>>> I missed out the word 'average' here.
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> Tests during the period of his Test career (and the average for the
>>>>>>>> Tests that he played in, which was slightly higher than for the period
>>>>>>>> as a whole). Bradman averaged more than three times the average for his
>>>>>>>> Test career, and for his Tests.
>>>>>>> But you have to take into account difficulty of the pitches Jackson played on (all uncovered pitches) and the fact that they were three day matches. Jackson retired from Test cricket in 1905. I suspect that at the time he retired he had the highest Test average of any cricketer who had scored 1,000 Test runs. .. RH
>>>>>>
>>>>>> His peers played on the same pitches.
>>>>> ... and if you look at the figures for the matches he played in, as I
>>>>> did, not only the same pitches, but the same duration of matches,
>>>>> funnily enough.
>>>> Lets make this simple. I say Jackson had the highest Test average for anyone scoring 1,000 or more runs when he retired in 1905. Do wish to challenge that claim?
>>> No, you actually got that bit right, but so what?
>>>
>>> ... unless when you said "AS for Jackson he is the best example of any
>>> player to have so massively exceeded the batting average of his period",
>>> you meant "AS for Jackson he is the best example of any player who made
>>> 1000 Test runs by the end of the 1905 season to have so massively
>>> exceeded the batting average of his period", in which case it was not
>>> much of a claim, not least because only 13 other batsmen had made 1000
>>> Test runs by that time.
>>
>> Well, 13 other batsmen obtaining an inferior average is pretty good. His average of 48 would be good at any time but doing it playing 3 day Tests on uncovered pitches is outstanding.
>>
>> OK, drop the number of players (since the onset of Test cricket in 1877) with Test runs in 1905 to 750 and see what you get. RH
>
>That adds another 11 batsmen.
>
>Jackson had a higher average than anyone with more runs at that point
>than Tip Foster's 486.

Uncovered pitches are not difficult to play on unless there's rain
during the game. How many of Jackson's Tests were rain-affected? Since
he never toured Australia, he never played on the sticky wickets
there, which were far more difficult to play on than English ones.

Jackson's average being so much higher than the rest, like Bradman's
later, is mainly evidence for how weak the general standard of cricket
was in their eras. I'm not sure that that's the point the illiberal
bigot is trying to make, but it's the only one he's succeeded in
establishing.

Cheers,

Mike

Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored

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Subject: Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored
From: nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk (David North)
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 by: David North - Mon, 21 Mar 2022 13:42 UTC

On Monday, 21 March 2022 at 07:43:15 UTC, RH wrote:
> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 7:27:50 PM UTC, nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk wrote:
> > On 20/03/2022 16:42, RH wrote:
> > > On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 2:15:14 PM UTC, nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk wrote:
> > >> On 20/03/2022 13:38, jack fredricks wrote:
> > >>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 10:13:16 PM UTC+10, RH wrote:
> > >>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 10:59:47 AM UTC, nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk wrote:
> > >>>>> On 19/03/2022 22:48, jack fredricks wrote:
> > >>>>>> On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 10:29:11 PM UTC+10, RH wrote:
> > >>>>>>> AS for Jackson he is the best example of any player to have so massively exceeded the batting average of his period. RH
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> LOL. Laughable.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Sir Donald Bradman would like a word.
> > >>>>> Quite. Jackson averaged a little under double the overall batting
> > >> I missed out the word 'average' here.
> > >>>>> in
> > >>>>> Tests during the period of his Test career (and the average for the
> > >>>>> Tests that he played in, which was slightly higher than for the period
> > >>>>> as a whole). Bradman averaged more than three times the average for his
> > >>>>> Test career, and for his Tests.
> > >>>> But you have to take into account difficulty of the pitches Jackson played on (all uncovered pitches) and the fact that they were three day matches. Jackson retired from Test cricket in 1905. I suspect that at the time he retired he had the highest Test average of any cricketer who had scored 1,000 Test runs. .. RH
> > >>>
> > >>> His peers played on the same pitches.
> > >> ... and if you look at the figures for the matches he played in, as I
> > >> did, not only the same pitches, but the same duration of matches,
> > >> funnily enough.
> > > Lets make this simple. I say Jackson had the highest Test average for anyone scoring 1,000 or more runs when he retired in 1905. Do wish to challenge that claim?
> > No, you actually got that bit right, but so what?
> >
> > ... unless when you said "AS for Jackson he is the best example of any
> > player to have so massively exceeded the batting average of his period",
> > you meant "AS for Jackson he is the best example of any player who made
> > 1000 Test runs by the end of the 1905 season to have so massively
> > exceeded the batting average of his period", in which case it was not
> > much of a claim, not least because only 13 other batsmen had made 1000
> > Test runs by that time.
> Well, 13 other batsmen obtaining an inferior average is pretty good. His average of 48 would be good at any time but doing it playing 3 day Tests on uncovered pitches is outstanding.

I don't think anyone is disputing that his average was outstanding for his period. It just wasn't as outstanding for his period as Bradman's was for Bradman's period.

Btw, batting in 3-day Tests *in England* doesn't seem to have been much more difficult than batting in timeless Tests in Australia *during Jackson's Test career*. The overall batting averages for that period were 25.21 in England and 26.75 in Australia (making 48.79 in England worth 51.77 in Australia). What was, on the face of it, significantly more difficult was batting in 3-day Tests in South Africa, where the average was 19.69 (making 48.79 in England worth 38.11 in SA). Despite there being relatively few Tests in SA (8 out of 49), that's enough to make the overall Test average for the period slightly lower than the average in England.

Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored

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Subject: Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored
From: anywhere...@gmail.com (RH)
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 by: RH - Mon, 21 Mar 2022 16:03 UTC

On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 7:47:09 AM UTC, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer wrote:
> On 3/21/2022 12:37 AM, RH wrote:
> > On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 9:43:26 PM UTC, jzfre...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 2:42:44 AM UTC+10, RH wrote:
> >>> Lets make this simple. I say Jackson had the highest Test average for anyone scoring 1,000 or more runs when he retired in 1905. Do wish to challenge that claim? If so give me the details.
> >> Lets admit my first statement was wrong.
> >> RH
> >
> >
> > Your failure to address my claim that Jackson has the highest Test average of anyone scoring a 1,000 or more Test runs when Jackson played his last Test in 1905. noted ...RH
> Your FAILURE to address the FACT of Jackson playing ONLY Australia and
> that too AT HOME is noted.
>
>
> Your FAILURE to ACCEPT the FACT of his average being OVER RATED compared
> to batsmen of other ERAS who played multiple teams away and home are
> also NOTED.

Go to your bedroom immediately!!!! RH

Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored

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Subject: Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored
From: anywhere...@gmail.com (RH)
Injection-Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 08:00:28 +0000
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 by: RH - Tue, 22 Mar 2022 08:00 UTC

On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 5:35:42 PM UTC, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer wrote:
> On 3/21/2022 9:03 AM, RH wrote:
> > On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 7:47:09 AM UTC, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer wrote:
> >> On 3/21/2022 12:37 AM, RH wrote:
> >>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 9:43:26 PM UTC, jzfre...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>> On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 2:42:44 AM UTC+10, RH wrote:
> >>>>> Lets make this simple. I say Jackson had the highest Test average for anyone scoring 1,000 or more runs when he retired in 1905. Do wish to challenge that claim? If so give me the details.
> >>>> Lets admit my first statement was wrong.
> >>>> RH
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Your failure to address my claim that Jackson has the highest Test average of anyone scoring a 1,000 or more Test runs when Jackson played his last Test in 1905. noted ...RH
> >> Your FAILURE to address the FACT of Jackson playing ONLY Australia and
> >> that too AT HOME is noted.
> >>
> >>
> >> Your FAILURE to ACCEPT the FACT of his average being OVER RATED compared
> >> to batsmen of other ERAS who played multiple teams away and home are
> >> also NOTED.
> >
> > Go to your bedroom immediately!!!! RH
> MI6 MI5 Psychopaths "remotely programmed" your brain close to 500 times
> to post comments like this, WITHOUT your knowledge.
>
> Your brain is TOO EASY for MI6 MI5 CIA NSA ASIS ASIO Psychopaths to
> PROGRAM, cuz you are fucking tooo dumb and too low IQed.

...."and don't come out until I say so.!!! .. " RH

Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored

<eb8f133a-36e3-481e-a857-5ddc7706e1b2n@googlegroups.com>

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Newsgroups: uk.sport.cricket
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Subject: Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored
From: anywhere...@gmail.com (RH)
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 by: RH - Wed, 23 Mar 2022 08:12 UTC

On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 1:25:16 PM UTC, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer wrote:
> On 3/22/2022 1:00 AM, RH wrote:
> > On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 5:35:42 PM UTC, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer wrote:
> >> On 3/21/2022 9:03 AM, RH wrote:
> >>> On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 7:47:09 AM UTC, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer wrote:
> >>>> On 3/21/2022 12:37 AM, RH wrote:
> >>>>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 9:43:26 PM UTC, jzfre...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>> On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 2:42:44 AM UTC+10, RH wrote:
> >>>>>>> Lets make this simple. I say Jackson had the highest Test average for anyone scoring 1,000 or more runs when he retired in 1905. Do wish to challenge that claim? If so give me the details.
> >>>>>> Lets admit my first statement was wrong.
> >>>>>> RH
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Your failure to address my claim that Jackson has the highest Test average of anyone scoring a 1,000 or more Test runs when Jackson played his last Test in 1905. noted ...RH
> >>>> Your FAILURE to address the FACT of Jackson playing ONLY Australia and
> >>>> that too AT HOME is noted.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Your FAILURE to ACCEPT the FACT of his average being OVER RATED compared
> >>>> to batsmen of other ERAS who played multiple teams away and home are
> >>>> also NOTED.
> >>>
> >>> Go to your bedroom immediately!!!! RH
> >> MI6 MI5 Psychopaths "remotely programmed" your brain close to 500 times
> >> to post comments like this, WITHOUT your knowledge.
> >>
> >> Your brain is TOO EASY for MI6 MI5 CIA NSA ASIS ASIO Psychopaths to
> >> PROGRAM, cuz you are fucking tooo dumb and too low IQed.
> >
> >
> > ..."and don't come out until I say so.!!! .. " RH
>
>
>
> MI6 MI5 Psychopaths "remotely programmed" your brain close to 500 times
> to post comments like this, WITHOUT your knowledge.
>
> Your brain is TOO EASY for MI6 MI5 CIA NSA ASIS ASIO Psychopaths to
> PROGRAM, cuz you are fucking tooo dumb and too low IQed.

....or you know what will happen ... RH

Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored

<dabf3574-f1cb-449e-8654-f99cc6a58e3fn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Batsmen's runs valued less than what they actually scored
From: tsp2...@gmail.com (Andrew Smith)
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 by: Andrew Smith - Fri, 25 Mar 2022 20:25 UTC

On Wednesday, March 23, 2022 at 6:02:20 AM UTC-7, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer wrote:

> MI6 MI5 Psychopaths "remotely programmed" your brain close to 500 times
> to post comments like this, WITHOUT your knowledge.

FURTHER PROOF you are a DELUSIONAL paranoid schizophrenic

> Your brain is TOO EASY for MI6 MI5 CIA NSA ASIS ASIO Psychopaths to
> PROGRAM, cuz you are fucking tooo dumb and tooo low IQed.

Be seeing you.

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