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aus+uk / uk.sport.cricket / Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season

SubjectAuthor
* Saqib Mahmood out for the seasonmax.it
+* Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the seasonJohn Hall
|`* Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the seasonmax.it
| +* Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the seasonmike
| |`- Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the seasonmax.it
| +* Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the seasonJohn Hall
| |`- Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the seasonRH
| `* Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the seasonHamish Laws
|  +* Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the seasonRH
|  |+* Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the seasonRichard Dixon
|  ||`- Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the seasonRH
|  |`* Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the seasonHamish Laws
|  | +* Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the seasonMike Holmans
|  | |`* Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the seasonJohn Hall
|  | | `- Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the seasonHamish Laws
|  | `- Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the seasonRH
|  `* Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the seasonmax.it
|   +- Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the seasonRH
|   `- Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the seasonHamish Laws
+- Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the seasonRH
+- Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the seasonRH
`* Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the seasonHamish Laws
 +* Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the seasonmax.it
 |`- Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the seasonRH
 +- Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the seasonmax.it
 `* Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the seasonsteve hague
  `- Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the seasonHamish Laws

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Saqib Mahmood out for the season

<ed258h5dt085cj9gmtbkv817end57io3hp@4ax.com>

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From: max...@tea.time (max.it)
Newsgroups: uk.sport.cricket
Subject: Saqib Mahmood out for the season
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 18:33:19 +0100
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 by: max.it - Mon, 16 May 2022 17:33 UTC

What is it with these back injuries?
Everytime England get a decent pace bowler he gets broken.
What even is a lumbar stress fracture?

max.it

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Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season

<84Ee3YCo5ogiFwWE@jhall_nospamxx.co.uk>

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From: john_nos...@jhall.co.uk (John Hall)
Newsgroups: uk.sport.cricket
Subject: Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 18:48:24 +0100
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 by: John Hall - Mon, 16 May 2022 17:48 UTC

In message <ed258h5dt085cj9gmtbkv817end57io3hp@4ax.com>, max. it
<max@tea.time> writes
>
>What is it with these back injuries?
>Everytime England get a decent pace bowler he gets broken.
>What even is a lumbar stress fracture?
>

Presumably it's a stress fracture of the back. It seems to be a common
complaint of fast bowlers. Both Currans have had one recently. Didn't
Denis Lillee have one back in the day?

I believe Robinson and Woakes also currently have injury problems, and
it's pretty much just the "old men" Anderson and Broad who are still
fit. (Fingers crossed that they will remain so.)
--
John Hall
"Home is heaven and orgies are vile,
But you *need* an orgy, once in a while."
Ogden Nash (1902-1971)

Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season

<fad30192-3d86-4161-979e-130267d517e4n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season
From: anywhere...@gmail.com (RH)
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 by: RH - Mon, 16 May 2022 18:06 UTC

On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 6:33:23 PM UTC+1, max.it wrote:
> What is it with these back injuries?
> Everytime England get a decent pace bowler he gets broken.
> What even is a lumbar stress fracture?
>
>
> max.it
>

Simple explanation:

(1) the rule that no one under the age of 18 may bowl no more than (I think) 6 overs in a spell has meant that bowlers bodies do not have an opportunity to toughen their bodies from an early age by bowling as much as they wanted .

(2) Coaches tinker with actions and run ups far more these days than they did previously. Sometimes it is a freak problem , eg Stephen Finn had his career severely disrupted by the correction to his run up because every now and then

(3) Fast bowlers (who are mostly tall these days) are now required, particularly in short form cricket, to throw themselves about in a way unheard of 25 years ago.

RH

Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season

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From: max...@tea.time (max.it)
Newsgroups: uk.sport.cricket
Subject: Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 21:19:25 +0100
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 by: max.it - Mon, 16 May 2022 20:19 UTC

On Mon, 16 May 2022 18:48:24 +0100, John Hall
<john_nospam@jhall.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <ed258h5dt085cj9gmtbkv817end57io3hp@4ax.com>, max. it
><max@tea.time> writes
>>
>>What is it with these back injuries?
>>Everytime England get a decent pace bowler he gets broken.
>>What even is a lumbar stress fracture?
>>
>
>Presumably it's a stress fracture of the back. It seems to be a common
>complaint of fast bowlers. Both Currans have had one recently. Didn't
>Denis Lillee have one back in the day?
>
>I believe Robinson and Woakes also currently have injury problems, and
>it's pretty much just the "old men" Anderson and Broad who are still
>fit. (Fingers crossed that they will remain so.)

My Son woke up with a dead arm, after a few moments everything came
back to normal except his right hand is almost totally paralysed. His
sleeping position trapped some nerves in his neck (C5, C6? )and it's
going to be a big job to fix it.

I wonder if this has ever happened to a cricketer, or even a sports
professional. You wake up one morning and your career is over.

max.it

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Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season

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Subject: Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season
From: dmike...@yahoo.co.uk (mike)
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 by: mike - Mon, 16 May 2022 22:35 UTC

On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 9:19:29 PM UTC+1, max.it wrote:
> On Mon, 16 May 2022 18:48:24 +0100, John Hall
> <john_...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >In message <ed258h5dt085cj9gm...@4ax.com>, max. it
> ><m...@tea.time> writes
> >>
> >>What is it with these back injuries?
> >>Everytime England get a decent pace bowler he gets broken.

It seems that fate wont allow them to fbs: some unwritten law
determines they must decline to medium pacers.

or maybe england fbs are just cursed.

either way its the first blow for the new regime.

> >>What even is a lumbar stress fracture?
> >>
> >
> >Presumably it's a stress fracture of the back. It seems to be a common
> >complaint of fast bowlers. Both Currans have had one recently. Didn't
> >Denis Lillee have one back in the day?
> >
> >I believe Robinson and Woakes also currently have injury problems, and

add Wood whos just had surgery on his elbow like jofra.

> >it's pretty much just the "old men" Anderson and Broad who are still
> >fit. (Fingers crossed that they will remain so.)
> My Son woke up with a dead arm, after a few moments everything came
> back to normal except his right hand is almost totally paralysed. His
> sleeping position trapped some nerves in his neck (C5, C6? )and it's
> going to be a big job to fix it.

now i'm afraid to lie down. plus theres monkeypox about somewhere.

mike

Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season

<7cl58h90o6k3nbeqnpjdgtepbhqn08stsc@4ax.com>

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From: max...@tea.time (max.it)
Newsgroups: uk.sport.cricket
Subject: Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 23:52:37 +0100
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 by: max.it - Mon, 16 May 2022 22:52 UTC

On Mon, 16 May 2022 15:35:53 -0700 (PDT), mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

>On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 9:19:29 PM UTC+1, max.it wrote:
>> On Mon, 16 May 2022 18:48:24 +0100, John Hall
>> <john_...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> >In message <ed258h5dt085cj9gm...@4ax.com>, max. it
>> ><m...@tea.time> writes
>> >>
>> >>What is it with these back injuries?
>> >>Everytime England get a decent pace bowler he gets broken.
>
>It seems that fate wont allow them to fbs: some unwritten law
>determines they must decline to medium pacers.
>
>or maybe england fbs are just cursed.
>
>either way its the first blow for the new regime.
>
>> >>What even is a lumbar stress fracture?
>> >>
>> >
>> >Presumably it's a stress fracture of the back. It seems to be a common
>> >complaint of fast bowlers. Both Currans have had one recently. Didn't
>> >Denis Lillee have one back in the day?
>> >
>> >I believe Robinson and Woakes also currently have injury problems, and
>
>add Wood whos just had surgery on his elbow like jofra.
>
>> >it's pretty much just the "old men" Anderson and Broad who are still
>> >fit. (Fingers crossed that they will remain so.)
>> My Son woke up with a dead arm, after a few moments everything came
>> back to normal except his right hand is almost totally paralysed. His
>> sleeping position trapped some nerves in his neck (C5, C6? )and it's
>> going to be a big job to fix it.
>
>now i'm afraid to lie down. plus theres monkeypox about somewhere.
>
>mike

Hayfever too.

max.it

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Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season

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Subject: Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season
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 by: RH - Tue, 17 May 2022 09:22 UTC

On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 6:33:23 PM UTC+1, max.it wrote:
> What is it with these back injuries?
> Everytime England get a decent pace bowler he gets broken.
> What even is a lumbar stress fracture?
>
>
> max.it

Simple explanation:
(1) the rule that no one under the age of 18 may bowl no more than (I think) 6 overs in a spell has meant that bowlers do not have an opportunity to toughen their bodies from an early age by bowling as much as they wanted .

(2) Coaches tinker with actions and run ups far more these days than they did previously. Sometimes it is a freak problem , eg Stephen Finn had his career severely disrupted by the correction to his run up because every now and then he knocked the stumps at the bowlers's end.
(3) Fast bowlers (who are mostly tall these days) are now required, particularly in short form cricket, to throw themselves about in a way unheard of 25 years ago.
RH

Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season

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From: john_nos...@jhall.co.uk (John Hall)
Newsgroups: uk.sport.cricket
Subject: Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 10:16:39 +0100
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 by: John Hall - Tue, 17 May 2022 09:16 UTC

In message <tvb58h1dnme71f73c6rat9faet09s3hhb8@4ax.com>, max. it
<max@tea.time> writes
>My Son woke up with a dead arm, after a few moments everything came
>back to normal except his right hand is almost totally paralysed. His
>sleeping position trapped some nerves in his neck (C5, C6? )and it's
>going to be a big job to fix it.

That's amazingly unlucky. I believe most trapped nerves become untrapped
very quickly. I hope he makes a full recovery.
>
>I wonder if this has ever happened to a cricketer, or even a sports
>professional. You wake up one morning and your career is over.

I've not heard of an instance, but I wouldn't be surprised if it had
happened. Over the years, cricketers have found some surprising ways to
injure themselves. Didn't Derek Pringle once put his back out while
writing a letter?
--
John Hall
"Home is heaven and orgies are vile,
But you *need* an orgy, once in a while."
Ogden Nash (1902-1971)

Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season

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Subject: Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season
From: anywhere...@gmail.com (RH)
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 by: RH - Tue, 17 May 2022 09:56 UTC

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 10:25:43 AM UTC+1, John Hall wrote:
> In message <tvb58h1dnme71f73c...@4ax.com>, max. it
> <m...@tea.time> writes
> >My Son woke up with a dead arm, after a few moments everything came
> >back to normal except his right hand is almost totally paralysed. His
> >sleeping position trapped some nerves in his neck (C5, C6? )and it's
> >going to be a big job to fix it.
> That's amazingly unlucky. I believe most trapped nerves become untrapped
> very quickly. I hope he makes a full recovery.
> >
> >I wonder if this has ever happened to a cricketer, or even a sports
> >professional. You wake up one morning and your career is over.
> I've not heard of an instance, but I wouldn't be surprised if it had
> happened. Over the years, cricketers have found some surprising ways to
> injure themselves. Didn't Derek Pringle once put his back out while
> writing a letter?

Correct. RH

Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season

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Subject: Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season
From: hamish.l...@gmail.com (Hamish Laws)
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 by: Hamish Laws - Tue, 17 May 2022 10:04 UTC

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 3:33:23 AM UTC+10, max.it wrote:
> What is it with these back injuries?
> Everytime England get a decent pace bowler he gets broken.
> What even is a lumbar stress fracture?
>
a lot of small cracks in the lower spine, mostly it's down to overuse/repetitive forces being exerted
It's also more likely with a mixed action

a hell of a lot of quick bowlers get stress fractures in the back
Lillee, Bishop, iirc Johnson had 4 before he made his first class debut. Mitch Starc had one after he'd got into the test team

Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season

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Subject: Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season
From: hamish.l...@gmail.com (Hamish Laws)
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 by: Hamish Laws - Tue, 17 May 2022 10:21 UTC

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 6:19:29 AM UTC+10, max.it wrote:
> On Mon, 16 May 2022 18:48:24 +0100, John Hall
> <john_...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >In message <ed258h5dt085cj9gm...@4ax.com>, max. it
> ><m...@tea.time> writes
> >>
> >>What is it with these back injuries?
> >>Everytime England get a decent pace bowler he gets broken.
> >>What even is a lumbar stress fracture?
> >>
> >
> >Presumably it's a stress fracture of the back. It seems to be a common
> >complaint of fast bowlers. Both Currans have had one recently. Didn't
> >Denis Lillee have one back in the day?
> >
> >I believe Robinson and Woakes also currently have injury problems, and
> >it's pretty much just the "old men" Anderson and Broad who are still
> >fit. (Fingers crossed that they will remain so.)
> My Son woke up with a dead arm, after a few moments everything came
> back to normal except his right hand is almost totally paralysed. His
> sleeping position trapped some nerves in his neck (C5, C6? )and it's
> going to be a big job to fix it.

Yeah, it'd be unlucky. Normally if you're compressing nerves when you sleep you'll move to free them, occasionally people sleep with a leg pressing down on something and they've damaged a nerve so their foot flops for a fair while until the nerve recovers, it's mostly when they're drunk.
I haven't had that issue, I've had repeated back problems including a couple of ruptured disks that were bad enough to go through full scans and, for the first diagnosed one, surgery. 3 months of constant pain from the hip down to my foot and pins and needles from the knee down to the foot.
The second diagnosed one I just had no strength in the right leg, couldn't push off on it and if I tried to stop on it the hip would give way. Not ideal for squash.

That one we managed to get right without surgery with anti-inflammatories, physio and exercises in the water (which was annoying because I swim about as well as I fly)

I'd suggest that they have a good, long talk with their doctor about options before they commit to anything drastic like surgery if time isn't going to do more damage then trying non-invasive options first might be a good idea.
>
> I wonder if this has ever happened to a cricketer, or even a sports
> professional. You wake up one morning and your career is over.

Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season

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Subject: Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season
From: anywhere...@gmail.com (RH)
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 by: RH - Tue, 17 May 2022 10:50 UTC

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 11:21:32 AM UTC+1, hamis...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 6:19:29 AM UTC+10, max.it wrote:
> > On Mon, 16 May 2022 18:48:24 +0100, John Hall
> > <john_...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > >In message <ed258h5dt085cj9gm...@4ax.com>, max. it
> > ><m...@tea.time> writes
> > >>
> > >>What is it with these back injuries?
> > >>Everytime England get a decent pace bowler he gets broken.
> > >>What even is a lumbar stress fracture?
> > >>
> > >
> > >Presumably it's a stress fracture of the back. It seems to be a common
> > >complaint of fast bowlers. Both Currans have had one recently. Didn't
> > >Denis Lillee have one back in the day?
> > >
> > >I believe Robinson and Woakes also currently have injury problems, and
> > >it's pretty much just the "old men" Anderson and Broad who are still
> > >fit. (Fingers crossed that they will remain so.)
> > My Son woke up with a dead arm, after a few moments everything came
> > back to normal except his right hand is almost totally paralysed. His
> > sleeping position trapped some nerves in his neck (C5, C6? )and it's
> > going to be a big job to fix it.
> Yeah, it'd be unlucky. Normally if you're compressing nerves when you sleep you'll move to free them, occasionally people sleep with a leg pressing down on something and they've damaged a nerve so their foot flops for a fair while until the nerve recovers, it's mostly when they're drunk.
> I haven't had that issue, I've had repeated back problems including a couple of ruptured disks that were bad enough to go through full scans and, for the first diagnosed one, surgery. 3 months of constant pain from the hip down to my foot and pins and needles from the knee down to the foot.
> The second diagnosed one I just had no strength in the right leg, couldn't push off on it and if I tried to stop on it the hip would give way. Not ideal for squash.
>
> That one we managed to get right without surgery with anti-inflammatories, physio and exercises in the water (which was annoying because I swim about as well as I fly)
>
> I'd suggest that they have a good, long talk with their doctor about options before they commit to anything drastic like surgery if time isn't going to do more damage then trying non-invasive options first might be a good idea.
> >
> > I wonder if this has ever happened to a cricketer, or even a sports
> > professional. You wake up one morning and your career is over.

The reasons I gave in an earlier post are plausible causes of stress fractures in pace bowlers.

Those from the older generation who grew up in the period 1946-1960 (and earlier decades before) will remember large numbers of pace bowlers who bowled day in day out. Here are some names from that period

Cliff Gladwin
Les Jackson
Harold Rhodes
Trevor Bailey
Ray Smith
Barry Knight
Alan Watkins
Wilf Wooler
George Lambert
Derek Shackleton
Fred Ridgeway
Alan Brown
Ron Pollard
Brian Statham
Peter Lever
Terry Spencer
Brian Boshier
John Warr
Alan Moss
F rank Tyson
Albert Nutter
Harold Butler
Arthur Wellard
Peter Loader
Alec Bedser
Ian Thompson
Tony Buss
Jack Bannister
Jack Flavell
Reg Perks
Fred Trueman

The only significant bowler done for by back problems in that period I can think of is John Larter .

RH

Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season

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Subject: Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season
From: richsdix...@gmail.com (Richard Dixon)
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 by: Richard Dixon - Tue, 17 May 2022 12:08 UTC

On Tuesday, 17 May 2022 at 11:50:13 UTC+1, RH wrote:

> Here are some names from that period

LARGE LIST OF NAMES FROM THE 1950S KLAXON !
LARGE LIST OF NAMES FROM THE 1950S KLAXON !

Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season

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Subject: Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season
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 by: max.it - Tue, 17 May 2022 12:14 UTC

On Tue, 17 May 2022 03:04:09 -0700 (PDT), Hamish Laws
<hamish.laws@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 3:33:23 AM UTC+10, max.it wrote:
>> What is it with these back injuries?
>> Everytime England get a decent pace bowler he gets broken.
>> What even is a lumbar stress fracture?
>>
>a lot of small cracks in the lower spine, mostly it's down to overuse/repetitive forces being exerted
>It's also more likely with a mixed action
>
>a hell of a lot of quick bowlers get stress fractures in the back
>Lillee, Bishop, iirc Johnson had 4 before he made his first class debut. Mitch Starc had one after he'd got into the test team

I have fractured L4 & L5, the doctor showed me on a model where the
breaks were. They never heal but tramadol helps although you don't
realise that until you run out of meds for a few days.

If pain from biliary colic was only as easily addressed I'd be happy.
What began for me as episodal biliary colic is now permanent at
various degrees of severity ranging between an unpleasant ache to
passing out and being on the ground rolling around in agony and barf..
My first appointment to see a consultant will be 107 weeks away,
that's and urgent referral, and if recommended surgery will be another
4 / 5 years after that.
I requested support from the healthcare society that I am a member of
and they have approved a private consultation for tomorrow, and if the
consultant refers me for surgery it will be approved too.
What a stroke of luck. I only joined up last year. Without healthcare
the consultation and follow up can cost up to £1800 and surgery is
around £7500. I don't know how anyone with the same illness can wait
for years on treatment or surgery, the pain is intense and comes in
lengthy spells sometimes 6 hours though longer is not uncommon.

max.it

--
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Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season

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Subject: Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season
From: anywhere...@gmail.com (RH)
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 by: RH - Tue, 17 May 2022 13:50 UTC

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 1:08:32 PM UTC+1, richsdi...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, 17 May 2022 at 11:50:13 UTC+1, RH wrote:
>
> > Here are some names from that period
> LARGE LIST OF NAMES FROM THE 1950S KLAXON !
> LARGE LIST OF NAMES FROM THE 1950S KLAXON !

PAVLOVIAN RESPONSE OF LIBERAL BIGOT TO NON PC KLAXON !
PAVLOVIAN RESPONSE OF LIBERAL BIGOT TO NON PC KLAXON !
rh

Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season

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Subject: Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season
From: anywhere...@gmail.com (RH)
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 by: RH - Tue, 17 May 2022 15:52 UTC

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 1:14:53 PM UTC+1, max.it wrote:
> On Tue, 17 May 2022 03:04:09 -0700 (PDT), Hamish Laws
> <hamis...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 3:33:23 AM UTC+10, max.it wrote:
> >> What is it with these back injuries?
> >> Everytime England get a decent pace bowler he gets broken.
> >> What even is a lumbar stress fracture?
> >>
> >a lot of small cracks in the lower spine, mostly it's down to overuse/repetitive forces being exerted
> >It's also more likely with a mixed action
> >
> >a hell of a lot of quick bowlers get stress fractures in the back
> >Lillee, Bishop, iirc Johnson had 4 before he made his first class debut. Mitch Starc had one after he'd got into the test team
> I have fractured L4 & L5, the doctor showed me on a model where the
> breaks were. They never heal but tramadol helps although you don't
> realise that until you run out of meds for a few days.
>
> If pain from biliary colic was only as easily addressed I'd be happy.
> What began for me as episodal biliary colic is now permanent at
> various degrees of severity ranging between an unpleasant ache to
> passing out and being on the ground rolling around in agony and barf..
> My first appointment to see a consultant will be 107 weeks away,
> that's and urgent referral, and if recommended surgery will be another
> 4 / 5 years after that.
> I requested support from the healthcare society that I am a member of
> and they have approved a private consultation for tomorrow, and if the
> consultant refers me for surgery it will be approved too.
> What a stroke of luck. I only joined up last year. Without healthcare
> the consultation and follow up can cost up to £1800 and surgery is
> around £7500. I don't know how anyone with the same illness can wait
> for years on treatment or surgery, the pain is intense and comes in
> lengthy spells sometimes 6 hours though longer is not uncommon.
> max.it

Oh dear, I do hope Lazarus is not leading up to telling the ng that he only has a few weeks to live or or that he will be on life support for the rest o his life... RH

Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season

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From: max...@tea.time (max.it)
Newsgroups: uk.sport.cricket
Subject: Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 18:44:06 +0100
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 by: max.it - Tue, 17 May 2022 17:44 UTC

On Tue, 17 May 2022 03:04:09 -0700 (PDT), Hamish Laws
<hamish.laws@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 3:33:23 AM UTC+10, max.it wrote:
>> What is it with these back injuries?
>> Everytime England get a decent pace bowler he gets broken.
>> What even is a lumbar stress fracture?
>>
>a lot of small cracks in the lower spine, mostly it's down to overuse/repetitive forces being exerted
>It's also more likely with a mixed action
>
>a hell of a lot of quick bowlers get stress fractures in the back
>Lillee, Bishop, iirc Johnson had 4 before he made his first class debut. Mitch Starc had one after he'd got into the test team

I read Matt Fisher is out now too with a back injury.
If bowling with full pace and control is causing bowlers to get hurt
then something will have to give. It can't keep being the body and it
can't be control so it would have to be pace that is conceeded.
Full control, natural pace gets you Glen McGrath and Jimmy Anderson
and that isn't a bad thing unless you are close to ancient and still
leading the attack.

max.it

--
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Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season

<t60p2u$162s$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: stevehag...@gmail.com (steve hague)
Newsgroups: uk.sport.cricket
Subject: Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 19:20:57 +0100
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 by: steve hague - Tue, 17 May 2022 18:20 UTC

On 17/05/2022 11:04, Hamish Laws wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 3:33:23 AM UTC+10, max.it wrote:
>> What is it with these back injuries?
>> Everytime England get a decent pace bowler he gets broken.
>> What even is a lumbar stress fracture?
>>
> a lot of small cracks in the lower spine, mostly it's down to overuse/repetitive forces being exerted
> It's also more likely with a mixed action
>
> a hell of a lot of quick bowlers get stress fractures in the back
> Lillee, Bishop, iirc Johnson had 4 before he made his first class debut. Mitch Starc had one after he'd got into the test team

Imran Khan had one, which meant he played for Pakistan as a batsman for
nearly a year. Ian Bishop would have been an ATG in my opinion if not
for the injuries that beset him. I'd say the same about Simon Jones.
Steve Hague

Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season

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Newsgroups: uk.sport.cricket
Subject: Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season
Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 20:12:52 +0100
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 by: max.it - Wed, 18 May 2022 19:12 UTC

On Tue, 17 May 2022 03:21:31 -0700 (PDT), Hamish Laws
<hamish.laws@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 6:19:29 AM UTC+10, max.it wrote:
>> On Mon, 16 May 2022 18:48:24 +0100, John Hall
>> <john_...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> >In message <ed258h5dt085cj9gm...@4ax.com>, max. it
>> ><m...@tea.time> writes
>> >>
>> >>What is it with these back injuries?
>> >>Everytime England get a decent pace bowler he gets broken.
>> >>What even is a lumbar stress fracture?
>> >>
>> >
>> >Presumably it's a stress fracture of the back. It seems to be a common
>> >complaint of fast bowlers. Both Currans have had one recently. Didn't
>> >Denis Lillee have one back in the day?
>> >
>> >I believe Robinson and Woakes also currently have injury problems, and
>> >it's pretty much just the "old men" Anderson and Broad who are still
>> >fit. (Fingers crossed that they will remain so.)
>> My Son woke up with a dead arm, after a few moments everything came
>> back to normal except his right hand is almost totally paralysed. His
>> sleeping position trapped some nerves in his neck (C5, C6? )and it's
>> going to be a big job to fix it.
>
>Yeah, it'd be unlucky. Normally if you're compressing nerves when you sleep you'll move to free them, occasionally people sleep with a leg pressing down on something and they've damaged a nerve so their foot flops for a fair while until the nerve recovers, it's mostly when they're drunk.
>I haven't had that issue, I've had repeated back problems including a couple of ruptured disks that were bad enough to go through full scans and, for the first diagnosed one, surgery. 3 months of constant pain from the hip down to my foot and pins and needles from the knee down to the foot.
>The second diagnosed one I just had no strength in the right leg, couldn't push off on it and if I tried to stop on it the hip would give way. Not ideal for squash.
>
>That one we managed to get right without surgery with anti-inflammatories, physio and exercises in the water (which was annoying because I swim about as well as I fly)
>
>I'd suggest that they have a good, long talk with their doctor about options before they commit to anything drastic like surgery if time isn't going to do more damage then trying non-invasive options first might be a good idea.
>>

He's getting some feeling back now but it's still clumsy, probably it
will be fine but it is taking a very long time to improve.He broke
that same right side elbow before and he has that flexi thing in his
joints hyperextension and it was the flexi thing that saved his elbow
from being useless after the break. He bowls SLA so he'll be fine.

Squash is a killer for all bones and joints. I remember a Pakistani
lad, champion of something or other came on tour to our club (1970s)
and left a half dozen contenders gasping for breath and barfing.
Anti infammatory drugs screw up the stomach,

I met my bargain basement healthcare surgeon today. He's sending me
for a CT scan and my bargain basement healthcare have authorised that
as well. When I called for approval they even told me that although
surgery would be a new request it would be approved too. The surgeon
already gave me the details for my surgery request.
I'm scratching my head wondering where the cameras are and when the
punchline will come. I can't believe my luck, pinch me I must dreaming
kind of feeling.

max.it

>> I wonder if this has ever happened to a cricketer, or even a sports
>> professional. You wake up one morning and your career is over.

--
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Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season

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Subject: Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season
From: anywhere...@gmail.com (RH)
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 by: RH - Thu, 19 May 2022 06:28 UTC

On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 8:13:02 PM UTC+1, max.it wrote:
> On Tue, 17 May 2022 03:21:31 -0700 (PDT), Hamish Laws
> <hamis...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 6:19:29 AM UTC+10, max.it wrote:
> >> On Mon, 16 May 2022 18:48:24 +0100, John Hall
> >> <john_...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >> >In message <ed258h5dt085cj9gm...@4ax.com>, max. it
> >> ><m...@tea.time> writes
> >> >>
> >> >>What is it with these back injuries?
> >> >>Everytime England get a decent pace bowler he gets broken.
> >> >>What even is a lumbar stress fracture?
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >Presumably it's a stress fracture of the back. It seems to be a common
> >> >complaint of fast bowlers. Both Currans have had one recently. Didn't
> >> >Denis Lillee have one back in the day?
> >> >
> >> >I believe Robinson and Woakes also currently have injury problems, and
> >> >it's pretty much just the "old men" Anderson and Broad who are still
> >> >fit. (Fingers crossed that they will remain so.)
> >> My Son woke up with a dead arm, after a few moments everything came
> >> back to normal except his right hand is almost totally paralysed. His
> >> sleeping position trapped some nerves in his neck (C5, C6? )and it's
> >> going to be a big job to fix it.
> >
> >Yeah, it'd be unlucky. Normally if you're compressing nerves when you sleep you'll move to free them, occasionally people sleep with a leg pressing down on something and they've damaged a nerve so their foot flops for a fair while until the nerve recovers, it's mostly when they're drunk.
> >I haven't had that issue, I've had repeated back problems including a couple of ruptured disks that were bad enough to go through full scans and, for the first diagnosed one, surgery. 3 months of constant pain from the hip down to my foot and pins and needles from the knee down to the foot.
> >The second diagnosed one I just had no strength in the right leg, couldn't push off on it and if I tried to stop on it the hip would give way. Not ideal for squash.
> >
> >That one we managed to get right without surgery with anti-inflammatories, physio and exercises in the water (which was annoying because I swim about as well as I fly)
> >
> >I'd suggest that they have a good, long talk with their doctor about options before they commit to anything drastic like surgery if time isn't going to do more damage then trying non-invasive options first might be a good idea.
> >>
> He's getting some feeling back now but it's still clumsy, probably it
> will be fine but it is taking a very long time to improve.He broke
> that same right side elbow before and he has that flexi thing in his
> joints hyperextension and it was the flexi thing that saved his elbow
> from being useless after the break. He bowls SLA so he'll be fine.
>
> Squash is a killer for all bones and joints. I remember a Pakistani
> lad, champion of something or other came on tour to our club (1970s)
> and left a half dozen contenders gasping for breath and barfing.
> Anti infammatory drugs screw up the stomach,
>
> I met my bargain basement healthcare surgeon today. He's sending me
> for a CT scan and my bargain basement healthcare have authorised that
> as well. When I called for approval they even told me that although
> surgery would be a new request it would be approved too. The surgeon
> already gave me the details for my surgery request.
> I'm scratching my head wondering where the cameras are and when the
> punchline will come. I can't believe my luck, pinch me I must dreaming
> kind of feeling.
>
> max.it
> >> I wonder if this has ever happened to a cricketer, or even a sports
> >> professional. You wake up one morning and your career is over.
> --
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Place your bets here as to whether Lazarus is (1) building up to telling the ng that he has only weeks to live or (2 )is to be on life support for the rest of his life... RH

Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season

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Subject: Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season
From: hamish.l...@gmail.com (Hamish Laws)
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 by: Hamish Laws - Thu, 19 May 2022 13:50 UTC

On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 5:13:02 AM UTC+10, max.it wrote:
> On Tue, 17 May 2022 03:21:31 -0700 (PDT), Hamish Laws
> <hamis...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 6:19:29 AM UTC+10, max.it wrote:
> >> On Mon, 16 May 2022 18:48:24 +0100, John Hall
> >> <john_...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >> >In message <ed258h5dt085cj9gm...@4ax.com>, max. it
> >> ><m...@tea.time> writes
> >> >>
> >> >>What is it with these back injuries?
> >> >>Everytime England get a decent pace bowler he gets broken.
> >> >>What even is a lumbar stress fracture?
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >Presumably it's a stress fracture of the back. It seems to be a common
> >> >complaint of fast bowlers. Both Currans have had one recently. Didn't
> >> >Denis Lillee have one back in the day?
> >> >
> >> >I believe Robinson and Woakes also currently have injury problems, and
> >> >it's pretty much just the "old men" Anderson and Broad who are still
> >> >fit. (Fingers crossed that they will remain so.)
> >> My Son woke up with a dead arm, after a few moments everything came
> >> back to normal except his right hand is almost totally paralysed. His
> >> sleeping position trapped some nerves in his neck (C5, C6? )and it's
> >> going to be a big job to fix it.
> >
> >Yeah, it'd be unlucky. Normally if you're compressing nerves when you sleep you'll move to free them, occasionally people sleep with a leg pressing down on something and they've damaged a nerve so their foot flops for a fair while until the nerve recovers, it's mostly when they're drunk.
> >I haven't had that issue, I've had repeated back problems including a couple of ruptured disks that were bad enough to go through full scans and, for the first diagnosed one, surgery. 3 months of constant pain from the hip down to my foot and pins and needles from the knee down to the foot.
> >The second diagnosed one I just had no strength in the right leg, couldn't push off on it and if I tried to stop on it the hip would give way. Not ideal for squash.
> >
> >That one we managed to get right without surgery with anti-inflammatories, physio and exercises in the water (which was annoying because I swim about as well as I fly)
> >
> >I'd suggest that they have a good, long talk with their doctor about options before they commit to anything drastic like surgery if time isn't going to do more damage then trying non-invasive options first might be a good idea.
> >>
> He's getting some feeling back now but it's still clumsy, probably it
> will be fine but it is taking a very long time to improve.He broke
> that same right side elbow before and he has that flexi thing in his
> joints hyperextension and it was the flexi thing that saved his elbow
> from being useless after the break. He bowls SLA so he'll be fine.
>
> Squash is a killer for all bones and joints. I remember a Pakistani
> lad, champion of something or other came on tour to our club (1970s)
> and left a half dozen contenders gasping for breath and barfing.
> Anti infammatory drugs screw up the stomach,
>
> I met my bargain basement healthcare surgeon today. He's sending me
> for a CT scan and my bargain basement healthcare have authorised that
> as well. When I called for approval they even told me that although
> surgery would be a new request it would be approved too. The surgeon
> already gave me the details for my surgery request.
> I'm scratching my head wondering where the cameras are and when the
> punchline will come. I can't believe my luck, pinch me I must dreaming
> kind of feeling.
>
Hope it all goes well for both of you

Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season

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Subject: Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season
From: hamish.l...@gmail.com (Hamish Laws)
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 by: Hamish Laws - Thu, 19 May 2022 13:57 UTC

On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 4:21:20 AM UTC+10, steve hague wrote:
> On 17/05/2022 11:04, Hamish Laws wrote:
> > On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 3:33:23 AM UTC+10, max.it wrote:
> >> What is it with these back injuries?
> >> Everytime England get a decent pace bowler he gets broken.
> >> What even is a lumbar stress fracture?
> >>
> > a lot of small cracks in the lower spine, mostly it's down to overuse/repetitive forces being exerted
> > It's also more likely with a mixed action
> >
> > a hell of a lot of quick bowlers get stress fractures in the back
> > Lillee, Bishop, iirc Johnson had 4 before he made his first class debut. Mitch Starc had one after he'd got into the test team
> Imran Khan had one, which meant he played for Pakistan as a batsman for
> nearly a year.

I think he had stress fractures in his legs rather than his back

> Ian Bishop would have been an ATG in my opinion if not
> for the injuries that beset him.

I'd agree, I think averaged 21 when he had the first 1, 20.45 for 83 wickets when he had the second and 28.34 after he came back from that one.

> I'd say the same about Simon Jones.

Quite likely, his bowling in 2005 was right up there

Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season

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Subject: Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season
From: hamish.l...@gmail.com (Hamish Laws)
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 by: Hamish Laws - Thu, 19 May 2022 14:05 UTC

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 8:50:13 PM UTC+10, RH wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 11:21:32 AM UTC+1, hamis...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 6:19:29 AM UTC+10, max.it wrote:
> > > On Mon, 16 May 2022 18:48:24 +0100, John Hall
> > > <john_...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > >In message <ed258h5dt085cj9gm...@4ax.com>, max. it
> > > ><m...@tea.time> writes
> > > >>
> > > >>What is it with these back injuries?
> > > >>Everytime England get a decent pace bowler he gets broken.
> > > >>What even is a lumbar stress fracture?
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >Presumably it's a stress fracture of the back. It seems to be a common
> > > >complaint of fast bowlers. Both Currans have had one recently. Didn't
> > > >Denis Lillee have one back in the day?
> > > >
> > > >I believe Robinson and Woakes also currently have injury problems, and
> > > >it's pretty much just the "old men" Anderson and Broad who are still
> > > >fit. (Fingers crossed that they will remain so.)
> > > My Son woke up with a dead arm, after a few moments everything came
> > > back to normal except his right hand is almost totally paralysed. His
> > > sleeping position trapped some nerves in his neck (C5, C6? )and it's
> > > going to be a big job to fix it.
> > Yeah, it'd be unlucky. Normally if you're compressing nerves when you sleep you'll move to free them, occasionally people sleep with a leg pressing down on something and they've damaged a nerve so their foot flops for a fair while until the nerve recovers, it's mostly when they're drunk.
> > I haven't had that issue, I've had repeated back problems including a couple of ruptured disks that were bad enough to go through full scans and, for the first diagnosed one, surgery. 3 months of constant pain from the hip down to my foot and pins and needles from the knee down to the foot.
> > The second diagnosed one I just had no strength in the right leg, couldn't push off on it and if I tried to stop on it the hip would give way. Not ideal for squash.
> >
> > That one we managed to get right without surgery with anti-inflammatories, physio and exercises in the water (which was annoying because I swim about as well as I fly)
> >
> > I'd suggest that they have a good, long talk with their doctor about options before they commit to anything drastic like surgery if time isn't going to do more damage then trying non-invasive options first might be a good idea.
> > >
> > > I wonder if this has ever happened to a cricketer, or even a sports
> > > professional. You wake up one morning and your career is over.
> The reasons I gave in an earlier post are plausible causes of stress fractures in pace bowlers.
>
> Those from the older generation who grew up in the period 1946-1960 (and earlier decades before) will remember large numbers of pace bowlers who bowled day in day out. Here are some names from that period
>
> F rank Tyson

You're listing Frank Tyson as evidence that fast bowlers back then didn't have injury issues?
How bold of you..
Also he had back issues before his test debut
>
> The only significant bowler done for by back problems in that period I can think of is John Larter .
>
based on past perfomance that means there must be hundreds of them

Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season

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Subject: Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season
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 by: Mike Holmans - Thu, 19 May 2022 14:15 UTC

On Thu, 19 May 2022 07:05:58 -0700 (PDT), Hamish Laws
<hamish.laws@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 8:50:13 PM UTC+10, RH wrote:

>> The only significant bowler done for by back problems in that period I can think of is John Larter .
>>
>based on past perfomance that means there must be hundreds of them

Indeed. Is it just my imagination, or are most of the people who get
these stress fractures young bowlers?

If so, then from his vast and entirely accurate memory the village
idiot ought to be able to name all the bowlers who lasted about one
season and then disappeared because there weren't the diagnostic
techniques to spot the stress fractures so they didn't get proper
treatment.

Cheers,

Mike

Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season

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Subject: Re: Saqib Mahmood out for the season
From: anywhere...@gmail.com (RH)
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 by: RH - Thu, 19 May 2022 16:52 UTC

On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 3:05:59 PM UTC+1, hamis...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 8:50:13 PM UTC+10, RH wrote:
> > On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 11:21:32 AM UTC+1, hamis...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 6:19:29 AM UTC+10, max.it wrote:
> > > > On Mon, 16 May 2022 18:48:24 +0100, John Hall
> > > > <john_...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >In message <ed258h5dt085cj9gm...@4ax.com>, max. it
> > > > ><m...@tea.time> writes
> > > > >>
> > > > >>What is it with these back injuries?
> > > > >>Everytime England get a decent pace bowler he gets broken.
> > > > >>What even is a lumbar stress fracture?
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >Presumably it's a stress fracture of the back. It seems to be a common
> > > > >complaint of fast bowlers. Both Currans have had one recently. Didn't
> > > > >Denis Lillee have one back in the day?
> > > > >
> > > > >I believe Robinson and Woakes also currently have injury problems, and
> > > > >it's pretty much just the "old men" Anderson and Broad who are still
> > > > >fit. (Fingers crossed that they will remain so.)
> > > > My Son woke up with a dead arm, after a few moments everything came
> > > > back to normal except his right hand is almost totally paralysed. His
> > > > sleeping position trapped some nerves in his neck (C5, C6? )and it's
> > > > going to be a big job to fix it.
> > > Yeah, it'd be unlucky. Normally if you're compressing nerves when you sleep you'll move to free them, occasionally people sleep with a leg pressing down on something and they've damaged a nerve so their foot flops for a fair while until the nerve recovers, it's mostly when they're drunk.
> > > I haven't had that issue, I've had repeated back problems including a couple of ruptured disks that were bad enough to go through full scans and, for the first diagnosed one, surgery. 3 months of constant pain from the hip down to my foot and pins and needles from the knee down to the foot.
> > > The second diagnosed one I just had no strength in the right leg, couldn't push off on it and if I tried to stop on it the hip would give way. Not ideal for squash.
> > >
> > > That one we managed to get right without surgery with anti-inflammatories, physio and exercises in the water (which was annoying because I swim about as well as I fly)
> > >
> > > I'd suggest that they have a good, long talk with their doctor about options before they commit to anything drastic like surgery if time isn't going to do more damage then trying non-invasive options first might be a good idea.
> > > >
> > > > I wonder if this has ever happened to a cricketer, or even a sports
> > > > professional. You wake up one morning and your career is over.
> > The reasons I gave in an earlier post are plausible causes of stress fractures in pace bowlers.
> >
> > Those from the older generation who grew up in the period 1946-1960 (and earlier decades before) will remember large numbers of pace bowlers who bowled day in day out. Here are some names from that period
> >
> > F rank Tyson
>
> You're listing Frank Tyson as evidence that fast bowlers back then didn't have injury issues?

TYson had a FC career running from 1952 ( 1 match), a few matches in 1953 before making his Test debut in 1954 against Pakistan and then regular first class work until his retirement in 1960.

Despite his short career Tyson took 767 wickets in years at 20.

RH

> How bold of you..
> Also he had back issues before his test debut

So what? The question is how often the difficulties struck and how severe they were.Tyson had problem but still played a good deal of cricket/ RH
H
> >
> > The only significant bowler done for by back problems in that period I can think of is John Larter .
> >
> based on past perfomance that means there must be hundreds of them

An absurd extrapolation because the whole point of the list I provided was to show that there was very large nuimbers of pace bowlers in the 50s and 60s who had long careers and took oodles of wickets.

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