On 05/04/2023 22:52, Dave W wrote:
>> Unfortunattely, modern technolgy hasn't (AFAIK) progressed beyond a
>> fairly large inductive loop (well, bunch of coils) which is not ideal
>> for th tip of a 'sensory' cane, which benefits from the least diameter
>> sensible and the least inertia possible.
>>
>> Your wish unfortunately suffers from the opposite requirements.
> I suggest winding a coil for the metal detector round a ferrite rod.
> --

Is that for catching ferrets?

Tone

On 05/04/2023 23:24, Tone wrote:
> On 05/04/2023 20:49, John Williamson wrote:
>> On 05/04/2023 19:27, maus wrote:
>>
>>> AFAIK, there are still unexploded WWI shells going off in Flanders, and
>>> some of the explosives used at Vimy Ridge are still at the ends of the
>>> tunnels, too dangerous to defuse.
>>>
>>>
>> The "Iron Harvest"
>>
>> Not just Flanders, the Iron Harvest happens along the entire length of
>> the WW1 front lines as far South as Switzerland, and still kills a
>> dozen or so farmers every year, as this year, the plough went a
>> centimetre deeper than last year due to an lump in the ground.
>>
>> I have seen the shells they extract while ploughing placed at the side
>> of the roads in Belgium ready to be collected by the army.
>>
>> There are also some land mines that have not been cleared yet.
>>
>
> There's suppose to be a ship full of unexploded bombs sunk off Sheppey
> somewhere. I'm told it's too dangerous to go near, but when and if it
> does go off, it will do some severe damage to seafront properties around
> there.
>
> Tone

In Southend, nearish deposits of flammables stored on Canvey Island,
which ideally must not be ignited, there is an interesting 'Bay Military
Museum' featuring in a corner the ends of a couple of measurement cables
that ran out across the English channel to test how magnetised the hulls
of ships were, and send them off for a heavy degaussing session if so.

Thus avoiding detonations of magnetically triggered German mines, but I
do hope they have found and collected those up by now.

--
Adrian C

On 2023-04-05, Tone <tone@email.com> wrote:
> On 05/04/2023 20:49, John Williamson wrote:
>> On 05/04/2023 19:27, maus wrote:
>>
>>
>
> There's suppose to be a ship full of unexploded bombs sunk off Sheppey
> somewhere. I'm told it's too dangerous to go near, but when and if it
> does go off, it will do some severe damage to seafront properties around
> there.
>
> Tone

There is a story that the German's sank a lot of poison gas canisters
in the deep sea to the south of Bornholm in 1945, to stop the russians
getting them,
near where the russian pipeline become exploded recently, and that the
british dumped something icky off donegal later.

There is also a story that the British experimented with bioweapons on a
small scottish island, and that that island is still forbidden,

--
greymausg@mail.com
where is our money gone, Dude?

On 05/04/2023 23:24, Tone wrote:
> On 05/04/2023 20:49, John Williamson wrote:
>> On 05/04/2023 19:27, maus wrote:
>>
>>> AFAIK, there are still unexploded WWI shells going off in Flanders, and
>>> some of the explosives used at Vimy Ridge are still at the ends of the
>>> tunnels, too dangerous to defuse.
>>>
>>>
>> The "Iron Harvest"
>>
>> Not just Flanders, the Iron Harvest happens along the entire length of
>> the WW1 front lines as far South as Switzerland, and still kills a
>> dozen or so farmers every year, as this year, the plough went a
>> centimetre deeper than last year due to an lump in the ground.
>>
>> I have seen the shells they extract while ploughing placed at the side
>> of the roads in Belgium ready to be collected by the army.
>>
>> There are also some land mines that have not been cleared yet.
>>
>
> There's suppose to be a ship full of unexploded bombs sunk off Sheppey
> somewhere. I'm told it's too dangerous to go near, but when and if it
> does go off, it will do some severe damage to seafront properties around
> there.

The SS Richard Montgomery. 1,400 tons of American explosives. The hull
is not in good condition.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20151027-the-ticking-time-bomb-of-the-thames

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

Tone said:
> On 05/04/2023 22:52, Dave W wrote:
>>> Unfortunattely, modern technolgy hasn't (AFAIK) progressed beyond a
>>> fairly large inductive loop (well, bunch of coils) which is not ideal
>>> for th tip of a 'sensory' cane, which benefits from the least diameter
>>> sensible and the least inertia possible.
>>>
>>> Your wish unfortunately suffers from the opposite requirements.
>> I suggest winding a coil for the metal detector round a ferrite rod.
>> --
>
> Is that for catching ferrets?

Dowsing for ferrets.

--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

maus <maus@mail.com> wrote:

>
> There is also a story that the British experimented with bioweapons on a
> small scottish island,

It’s not a story, it’s a fact.

> and that that island is still forbidden,
>

Nope, it’s been decontaminated.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

That does not preclude the roller ball on the end of the cane being below
the coil.
I think the only issue could be the mass of the coil as you move it side to
side as you walk. Maybe it could follow metal pipes or wires under the
footway to aid navigation..
Brian

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"Tone" <tone@email.com> wrote in message
news:u0jgq3$3rmnh$1@dont-email.me...
> On 05/04/2023 10:41, Brian Gaff wrote:
>> I was just thinking, if somebody could make a metal detector that was on
>> the
>> end of a white cane, while we are moving around the place we might find
>> all
>> sorts of goodies.
>> Brian
>>
>
> Given that a detector doesn't actually touch the ground. how would that
> jbex
>
> Tone

Nothing is cheap in the blind world. There is a cane called the Ultra Cane
with ultrasonic beams and vibrating handle to detect objects a at different
heights. The last time I looked this was around �500.

Brian

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"John Williamson" <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:k95054Ffrp3U1@mid.individual.net...
> On 05/04/2023 10:59, Tone wrote:
>> On 05/04/2023 10:41, Brian Gaff wrote:
>>> I was just thinking, if somebody could make a metal detector that was
>>> on the
>>> end of a white cane, while we are moving around the place we might
>>> find all
>>> sorts of goodies.
>>> Brian
>>>
>>
>> Given that a detector doesn't actually touch the ground. how would that
>> jbex
>>
> Just add a blob to the bottom of the coil, and that wold help stabilise
> the coil at the best height. The main problem would be making the coil
> small and light enough to use as the touch detector while keeping the
> sensitivity.
>
> It could be done, but it wouldn't be cheap.
>
> --
> Tciao for Now!
>
> John.

That does not work, unfortunately. I tried it many years ago. There is low
sensitivity and a very narrow capture zone

There was one that used several coils though, but although it was smaller it
was heavier as it had more wire on it.
It used phase comparisons as far as I can recall.

Brian

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"Dave W" <davewi11@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:u8rr2it725pj8e13i15cpbb2drbjg64pjh@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 5 Apr 2023 12:04:03 +0100, RustyHinge
> <rusty.hinge@foobar.girolle.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>On 05/04/2023 10:41, Brian Gaff wrote:
>>> I was just thinking, if somebody could make a metal detector that was on
>>> the
>>> end of a white cane, while we are moving around the place we might find
>>> all
>>> sorts of goodies.
>>
>>Unfortunattely, modern technolgy hasn't (AFAIK) progressed beyond a
>>fairly large inductive loop (well, bunch of coils) which is not ideal
>>for th tip of a 'sensory' cane, which benefits from the least diameter
>>sensible and the least inertia possible.
>>
>>Your wish unfortunately suffers from the opposite requirements.
>
> I suggest winding a coil for the metal detector round a ferrite rod.
> --
> Dave W
>

Maybe then we could change the device's purpose from finding metal to
removing stubborn people out of your way.A nice tesla coil might be the best
bet here.
Brian

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"Tone" <tone@email.com> wrote in message news:u0kshb$1vbr$3@dont-email.me...
> On 05/04/2023 22:52, Dave W wrote:
>>> Unfortunattely, modern technolgy hasn't (AFAIK) progressed beyond a
>>> fairly large inductive loop (well, bunch of coils) which is not ideal
>>> for th tip of a 'sensory' cane, which benefits from the least diameter
>>> sensible and the least inertia possible.
>>>
>>> Your wish unfortunately suffers from the opposite requirements.
>> I suggest winding a coil for the metal detector round a ferrite rod.
>> --
>
> Is that for catching ferrets?
>
> Tone

What a lot would wish for would be a dog and other animal poo detector. Oh
so often either the cane or your boots gets the excrement on them.
Unfortunately wild animals like foxeds and badgers, don't know about Ferrets
are not trained to poo in the gutters.
Brian

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"Richard Robinson" <richard@qualmograph.org.uk> wrote in message
news:u0ncrf$gdtv$1@dont-email.me...
> Tone said:
>> On 05/04/2023 22:52, Dave W wrote:
>>>> Unfortunattely, modern technolgy hasn't (AFAIK) progressed beyond a
>>>> fairly large inductive loop (well, bunch of coils) which is not ideal
>>>> for th tip of a 'sensory' cane, which benefits from the least diameter
>>>> sensible and the least inertia possible.
>>>>
>>>> Your wish unfortunately suffers from the opposite requirements.
>>> I suggest winding a coil for the metal detector round a ferrite rod.
>>> --
>>
>> Is that for catching ferrets?
>
> Dowsing for ferrets.
>
>
> --
> Richard Robinson
> "The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem
>
> My email address is at http://qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

Well we could then become recyclers as well.
Brian

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"Tease'n'Seize" <tease-and-seize@invalid> wrote in message
news:vOWdnW-bD8RAx7D5nZ2dnZfqnPWdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk...
>
> Thomas Prufer wrote:
>
>> Brian Gaff wrote:
>>
>>> if somebody could make a metal detector that was on the end of a white
>>> cane, while we are moving around the place we might find all sorts of
>>> goodies.
>>
>> Bottle caps, pull tabs (old ones -- the new ones stick to the can),
>> bits&pieces
>> of automobiles, diverse cast iron manhole covers, hydrant covers, street
>> wiring
>> covers, buried pipes, ...
>
> An Oliver Cromwell half groat ...
>
>
>

This is where we miss Tandy. They used to have a range of them and they were
not that expensive. Nearly all of them at the time were not that
sophisticated, being of the BFO kind you could hear and some had the meter
to tell whether it was ferrous or not, ie which way the oscillator was being
changed.
Brian

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"maus" <maus@mail.com> wrote in message
news:k95aqfFhbbvU3@mid.individual.net...
> On 2023-04-05, hubops@ccanoemail.com <hubops@ccanoemail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 5 Apr 2023 10:41:14 +0100, "Brian Gaff" <brian1gaff@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>I was just thinking, if somebody could make a metal detector that was on
>>>the
>>>end of a white cane, while we are moving around the place we might find
>>>all
>>>sorts of goodies.
>>> Brian
>>
>>
>> Yep !
>> .. you'd " find " all the " goodies " that sighted folks
>> have walked over and left there ... :-)
>> But it's funny you mention metal detectors - I've recently
>> been thinking about getting one for the grandkids to play with
>> at the beach. My quandary, as usual, is that the cheapo units
>> are likely to be useless and the decent units are likely to cost
>> much more than I'm willing to pay - for suh a toy.
>> John T.
>>
>
> Illegal here (.ie). As you say, ones that can detect copper (old coins)
> or silver or gold are pricey, like the one lying against the wall back
> of me. The toy ones are useless within ten feet of a barbed wire fence.
>
>
> --
> greymausg@mail.com
> where is our money gone, Dude?
>

Yes I thought that as well, but you don't really come across many mines in
the high street, Just stupidly placed bikes, a boards tables and chairs,
street furniture, trees, cars on the footways, and of course across dropped
curbs, Silent traffic lights and crossings, Alien persons who seem not to
know what the white cane means, Wheelie bins Black bin liners full of crap,
cyclists, Escooters and invalid scooter things.
Brian

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"Ahem A Rivet's Shot" <steveo@eircom.net> wrote in message
news:20230405163327.560b96b0b3d4608227ee363a@eircom.net...
> On Wed, 5 Apr 2023 16:29:50 +0100
> Adrian Caspersz <email@here.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 05/04/2023 10:41, Brian Gaff wrote:
>> > I was just thinking, if somebody could make a metal detector that was
>> > on the end of a white cane, while we are moving around the place we
>> > might find all sorts of goodies.
>>
>> Based on that idea, perhaps a mine detector would also be possible? :p
>
> Two white canes pointing at a coin on the ground both screaming
> "Mine" ?
>
> --
> Steve O'Hara-Smith
> Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

Oooooo!

Careful Brian. You may be inadvertently making a case for the removal of
blind people as the easier option. That would never do!

Nev

On 07/04/2023 09:11, Brian Gaff wrote:
> Yes I thought that as well, but you don't really come across many mines in
> the high street, Just stupidly placed bikes, a boards tables and chairs,
> street furniture, trees, cars on the footways, and of course across dropped
> curbs, Silent traffic lights and crossings, Alien persons who seem not to
> know what the white cane means, Wheelie bins Black bin liners full of crap,
> cyclists, Escooters and invalid scooter things.
> Brian
>

--
Nev
It causes me a great deal of regret and remorse
that so many people are unable to understand what I write.

On 7/4/23 9:11 am, Brian Gaff wrote:
> Yes I thought that as well, but you don't really come across many mines in
> the high street, Just stupidly placed bikes, a boards tables and chairs,
> street furniture, trees, cars on the footways, and of course across dropped
> curbs, Silent traffic lights and crossings, Alien persons who seem not to
> know what the white cane means, Wheelie bins Black bin liners full of crap,
> cyclists, Escooters and invalid scooter things.
> Brian
>

They treat mobility scooter riders just the same, Brian. When I use mine
I seem to go completely invisible - able people try to walk straight
through me. Many pavements in towns are nearly impassible to scooter and
wheelchair users alike.

A silly old story prompted by your first comment. A chap was visiting a
friend who lived in the Middle East. He commented that when he was last
there the women walked five paces behind their husbands, but now they
walked five paces in front. He asked if it was modernisation of their
lifestyle. "No, land mines," said his friend.

--
Regards,

Bob

Inside every old man is a young man wondering what the hell happened.

On 07/04/2023 08:50, Brian Gaff wrote:
> Nothing is cheap in the blind world. There is a cane called the Ultra Cane
> with ultrasonic beams and vibrating handle to detect objects a at different
> heights. The last time I looked this was around Ł500.

Possibly a legacy device, not been recently updated.

I'd have thought several microwave proximity sensors attached to a
stick/belt and an Arduino triggered alarm would reliably sort that.
Cheap sensors commonly used in robotics and security / automation.

College final year project ideas, or a self-promotional makers YouTube
channel for someone stuck at not doing much else?

Across the world, there are grass roots efforts to create non-profit
companies to manufacture disability aids, if they can get over
manufacturing and staff costs - cheap tech solutions and clever folks
certainly exist.

--
Adrian C

Brian Gaff <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote:
> I was just thinking, if somebody could make a metal detector that was on the
> end of a white cane, while we are moving around the place we might find all
> sorts of goodies.
> Brian
>

I’ve often thought some kind of audio GPS would be helpful, especially when
visiting a new area.

I don’t pretend to be an expert but I understand, the visually impaired
tend to be good at learning their local area etc and can ‘read’ things like
changes in surfaces etc to find their way to, say, the local shop etc.
However, that must only apply if they know the area. An audio GPS would
help elsewhere.

If it could be linked to sensors in a cane, then things like changes it
surfaces, the ‘studs’ used to mark crossings etc could be added and maybe
even added to a database to be shared. Ditto for hazards.

No offence intended Brian.

Tone <tone@email.com> wrote:
> On 05/04/2023 20:49, John Williamson wrote:
>> On 05/04/2023 19:27, maus wrote:
>>
>>> AFAIK, there are still unexploded WWI shells going off in Flanders, and
>>> some of the explosives used at Vimy Ridge are still at the ends of the
>>> tunnels, too dangerous to defuse.
>>>
>>>
>> The "Iron Harvest"
>>
>> Not just Flanders, the Iron Harvest happens along the entire length of
>> the WW1 front lines as far South as Switzerland, and still kills a dozen
>> or so farmers every year, as this year, the plough went a centimetre
>> deeper than last year due to an lump in the ground.
>>
>> I have seen the shells they extract while ploughing placed at the side
>> of the roads in Belgium ready to be collected by the army.
>>
>> There are also some land mines that have not been cleared yet.
>>
>
> There's suppose to be a ship full of unexploded bombs sunk off Sheppey
> somewhere. I'm told it's too dangerous to go near, but when and if it
> does go off, it will do some severe damage to seafront properties around
> there.
>
> Tone
>

Anyone who knows Sheppey will tell you it could only improve the place 😀.

John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On 05/04/2023 23:24, Tone wrote:
>> On 05/04/2023 20:49, John Williamson wrote:
>>> On 05/04/2023 19:27, maus wrote:
>>>
>>>> AFAIK, there are still unexploded WWI shells going off in Flanders, and
>>>> some of the explosives used at Vimy Ridge are still at the ends of the
>>>> tunnels, too dangerous to defuse.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> The "Iron Harvest"
>>>
>>> Not just Flanders, the Iron Harvest happens along the entire length of
>>> the WW1 front lines as far South as Switzerland, and still kills a
>>> dozen or so farmers every year, as this year, the plough went a
>>> centimetre deeper than last year due to an lump in the ground.
>>>
>>> I have seen the shells they extract while ploughing placed at the side
>>> of the roads in Belgium ready to be collected by the army.
>>>
>>> There are also some land mines that have not been cleared yet.
>>>
>>
>> There's suppose to be a ship full of unexploded bombs sunk off Sheppey
>> somewhere. I'm told it's too dangerous to go near, but when and if it
>> does go off, it will do some severe damage to seafront properties around
>> there.
>
> The SS Richard Montgomery. 1,400 tons of American explosives. The hull
> is not in good condition.
>
> https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20151027-the-ticking-time-bomb-of-the-thames
>
>

Sheppey, where the homes have wheels and the cars don’t.

On 2023-04-10, Brian <noinv@lid.org> wrote:
> Tone <tone@email.com> wrote:
>> On 05/04/2023 20:49, John Williamson wrote:
>>> On 05/04/2023 19:27, maus wrote:
>>>
>>>> AFAIK, there are still unexploded WWI shells going off in Flanders, and
>>>> some of the explosives used at Vimy Ridge are still at the ends of the
>>>> tunnels, too dangerous to defuse.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> The "Iron Harvest"
>>>
>>> Not just Flanders, the Iron Harvest happens along the entire length of
>>> the WW1 front lines as far South as Switzerland, and still kills a dozen
>>> or so farmers every year, as this year, the plough went a centimetre
>>> deeper than last year due to an lump in the ground.
>>>
>>> I have seen the shells they extract while ploughing placed at the side
>>> of the roads in Belgium ready to be collected by the army.
>>>
>>> There are also some land mines that have not been cleared yet.
>>>
>>
>> There's suppose to be a ship full of unexploded bombs sunk off Sheppey
>> somewhere. I'm told it's too dangerous to go near, but when and if it
>> does go off, it will do some severe damage to seafront properties around
>> there.
>>
>> Tone
>>
>
> Anyone who knows Sheppey will tell you it could only improve the place 😀.
>
>
>

When I was younger, and almost everyone except politicians relatives
went to work in England, A lot of Irish worked in the building of a
power station down that way, its even mentioned in old songs.

--
greymausg@mail.com
Where is our money gone, dude?

MAUS <maus@deb.org> wrote:
> On 2023-04-10, Brian <noinv@lid.org> wrote:
>> Tone <tone@email.com> wrote:
>>> On 05/04/2023 20:49, John Williamson wrote:
>>>> On 05/04/2023 19:27, maus wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> AFAIK, there are still unexploded WWI shells going off in Flanders, and
>>>>> some of the explosives used at Vimy Ridge are still at the ends of the
>>>>> tunnels, too dangerous to defuse.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> The "Iron Harvest"
>>>>
>>>> Not just Flanders, the Iron Harvest happens along the entire length of
>>>> the WW1 front lines as far South as Switzerland, and still kills a dozen
>>>> or so farmers every year, as this year, the plough went a centimetre
>>>> deeper than last year due to an lump in the ground.
>>>>
>>>> I have seen the shells they extract while ploughing placed at the side
>>>> of the roads in Belgium ready to be collected by the army.
>>>>
>>>> There are also some land mines that have not been cleared yet.
>>>>
>>>
>>> There's suppose to be a ship full of unexploded bombs sunk off Sheppey
>>> somewhere. I'm told it's too dangerous to go near, but when and if it
>>> does go off, it will do some severe damage to seafront properties around
>>> there.
>>>
>>> Tone
>>>
>>
>> Anyone who knows Sheppey will tell you it could only improve the place 😀.
>>
>>
>>
>
> When I was younger, and almost everyone except politicians relatives
> went to work in England, A lot of Irish worked in the building of a
> power station down that way, its even mentioned in old songs.
>
>

Probably Kingsnorth. It closed several years ago.

It was on Hoo peninsula, to the West of Sheppey but close- a few miles.

On 2023-04-10, Brian <noinv@lid.org> wrote:
> MAUS <maus@deb.org> wrote:
>> On 2023-04-10, Brian <noinv@lid.org> wrote:
>>> Tone <tone@email.com> wrote:
>>>> On 05/04/2023 20:49, John Williamson wrote:
>>>>> On 05/04/2023 19:27, maus wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> AFAIK, there are still unexploded WWI shells going off in Flanders, and
>>>>>> some of the explosives used at Vimy Ridge are still at the ends of the
>>>>>> tunnels, too dangerous to defuse.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> The "Iron Harvest"
>>>>>
>>>>> Not just Flanders, the Iron Harvest happens along the entire length of
>>>>> the WW1 front lines as far South as Switzerland, and still kills a dozen
>>>>> or so farmers every year, as this year, the plough went a centimetre
>>>>> deeper than last year due to an lump in the ground.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have seen the shells they extract while ploughing placed at the side
>>>>> of the roads in Belgium ready to be collected by the army.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are also some land mines that have not been cleared yet.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There's suppose to be a ship full of unexploded bombs sunk off Sheppey
>>>> somewhere. I'm told it's too dangerous to go near, but when and if it
>>>> does go off, it will do some severe damage to seafront properties around
>>>> there.
>>>>
>>>> Tone
>>>>
>>>
>>> Anyone who knows Sheppey will tell you it could only improve the place 😀.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> When I was younger, and almost everyone except politicians relatives
>> went to work in England, A lot of Irish worked in the building of a
>> power station down that way, its even mentioned in old songs.
>>
>>
>
> Probably Kingsnorth. It closed several years ago.
>
> It was on Hoo peninsula, to the West of Sheppey but close- a few miles.

"I stripped to the skin, with darkie men, down on the isle of Grain"

quote from ``McAlpines Fusaliers", A song from my youth.
--
greymausg@mail.com
Where is our money gone, dude?

On 10/04/2023 13:47, Brian wrote:
>
> I’ve often thought some kind of audio GPS would be helpful, especially when
> visiting a new area.
>
> I don’t pretend to be an expert but I understand, the visually impaired
> tend to be good at learning their local area etc and can ‘read’ things like
> changes in surfaces etc to find their way to, say, the local shop etc.
> However, that must only apply if they know the area. An audio GPS would
> help elsewhere.

Like Google Maps, you mean?