South Yorkshire Police have appealed for information after two cyclists were killed in a suspected hit-and-run incident in Barnsley on Friday.

The two men, who have yet to be formally identified by officers, are believed to have been struck by a motorist driving a red Volkswagen Golf on the Royston Road in the village of Cudworth, a few miles north-east of Barnsley, just after 9pm on Friday.

Both cyclists were pronounced dead at the scene.

The motorist failed to stop following the collision, and the car was later found abandoned in Bleak Avenue, Shafton, around a mile from where the incident took place.

South Yorkshire Police confirmed yesterday that they have arrested a 37-year-old man on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving. Officers are currently working to track down a second suspect.

"We are appealing for anyone who witnessed the incident or who was driving in the area at the time and may have seen the Volkswagen Golf or cyclists to get in touch. We are particularly keen to hear from those with dash-cam footage,” a police spokesperson said.

https://road.cc/content/news/motorist-arrested-after-two-cyclists-killed-hit-and-run-298801

It's sad to see yet another two families devastated by dangerous driving. This story was considered important enough to be on the national (radio) news earlier today which is unusual. Good to hear they have already arrested a suspect but not looking forward to the inevitable lenient sentence.

What sort of car was it? . . . . Oh, needn't have asked.

swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
> It's sad to see yet another two families devastated by dangerous driving.
> This story was considered important enough to be on the national (radio)
> news earlier today which is unusual. Good to hear they have already
> arrested a suspect but not looking forward to the inevitable lenient sentence.

> What sort of car was it? . . . . Oh, needn't have asked.

One with working windscreen wipers?

--
Spike

That petition doesn't go far enough. Banning people after they've killed someone is not enough. The whole punishment/points system for owning a motor vehicle licence needs overhauling. Owning a licence should be seen as a privilege and not a right. All serious driving offences should carry the threat of a lifetime ban. If you can't be trusted to drive responsibly, then simply, you should not be allowed to drive.

swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:

> That petition doesn't go far enough. Banning people after they've killed
> someone is not enough.

So, what would you put forward as a suitable punishment in this case, a
paltry £1000 fine being a sick joke:

Family tributes to motorcyclist killed in crash with cyclist

25th November 2022

THE family of a motorcyclist who was killed in a crash at a crossroads in
Poole have paid tribute to him and spoken of the devastating impact his
death has had on them.

Members of Callum Clements's family were in the public gallery at Poole
Magistrates’ Court on Thursday, November 24, as a cyclist was convicted and
sentenced for his involvement in the crash which killed the 23-year-old.

After District Judge Michael Snow found Garry Kopanycia-Reynolds, aged 59
and of Florence Road, Poole, guilty of riding a cycle in a road without
reasonable consideration for others, Mr Clements’s mother read a victim
personal statement in court.

She said her son who was “so full of life and lived for the moment” would
miss out on the chance to watch his six brothers grow up.

He would also miss out on the chance to become a father himself and all the
future family gatherings, she said.

The crash took place at the Shah of Persia crossroads shortly after 7am on
December 21 last year.

Kopanycia-Reynolds turned right at the traffic lights from Ringwood Road
towards Fernside Road and collided with the motorcyclist who had the right
of way as he was heading straight on from Longfleet Road onto Ringwood
Road.

Addressing the defendant, Mr Clements's mother said: “These are moments
that you have stolen not only from Callum but from his friends and family.”

She added: “On that day my son died and part of me died with him. I will
never be the same person I was before.”

Kopanycia-Reynolds was issued with the maximum penalty for the offence in
the form of a £1,000 fine.

Ms Clements said she felt her son and those that loved him had been let
down by the law, adding that cyclists should be held more accountable for
their actions.

She said: “It was not Callum who made the wrong decision but he paid the
biggest price. He lost his life.”

In a statement read by prosecutor Stuart Ellacott, Mr Clements’s father
said all of the family were “devastated”.

“Trying to deal with our loss has left a big hole in our lives,” he said.

Police Constable Leanne Howes, of Dorset Police’s serious collision
investigation team (SCIT), said: “This is a very sad case that has seen
Callum’s family lose their loved one and the cyclist involved has also
sustained significant life-changing injuries.

“Our investigation was able to prove that the defendant clearly turned in
front of the motorcycle, which had right of way, and this resulted in the
collision.

“This is a demonstration of the truly awful consequences that can be caused
by any road user failing to pay sufficient care and attention.”

--
Spike

We're barely into the 4th week of 2023 and the number of cyclists killed by drivers in the UK is racking up at a worrying rate.

Could someone compile a list of the cases like Bez used to do on beyondthekerb? Or just a running total as I'm sure that's at least 5 this week and putting number to it might help the public understand the severity of the problem of dangerous driving.

swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:

> We're barely into the 4th week of 2023 and the number of cyclists killed
> by drivers in the UK is racking up at a worrying rate.

> Could someone compile a list of the cases like Bez used to do on
> beyondthekerb? Or just a running total as I'm sure that's at least 5 this
> week and putting number to it might help the public understand the
> severity of the problem of dangerous driving.

If the list is compiled correctly, it might help the public (including
cyclists) to understand the severity of the problem of dangerous cycling,
there being too many scofflaw cyclists about.

--
Spike

More importantly, the whole culture around car ownership and use - i.e. the way it is used on public roads - needs to change.

While big, powerful and fast cars are promoted and idolised, whether through the huge $$$ involved in motorsport and the marketing of cars that are capable of huge speed with no restraint then things won't change.

The possibility of a driving ban, whether for a year or for life, won't work in the same way that life sentences and even capital punishment do not not deter people from committing serious crimes.

However, I'd be happy to see those who are caught while already banned being put in prison (and it being made crystal clear when they are sentenced that this will happen if they are caught). Also that 12 points means a ban without the cop-out of pleading 'exceptional hardship', a crappy excuse for repeatedly flouting the Law has been abused far too many times already.

On 23/01/2023 04:41 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

> More importantly, the whole culture around car ownership and use - i.e. the way it is used on public roads - needs to change.
>
> While big, powerful and fast cars are promoted and idolised, whether through the huge $$$ involved in motorsport and the marketing of cars that are capable of huge speed with no restraint then things won't change.

Safety equipment needs to be emphasised too: steering, lights, brakes,
seat-belts, windscreen wipers (and washers). That sort of thing.

I'm sure you agree.
>
> The possibility of a driving ban, whether for a year or for life, won't work in the same way that life sentences and even capital punishment do not not deter people from committing serious crimes.
>
> However, I'd be happy to see those who are caught while already...

[nothing but a fully-qualified fairy-cyclist]

> ...being put in prison (and it being made crystal clear when they are sentenced that this will happen if they are caught). Also that 12 points means a ban without the cop-out of pleading 'exceptional hardship', a crappy excuse for repeatedly flouting the Law has been abused far too many times already.

Any scofflaw chav who flouts the law multiple times deserves severe
punishment.

Disobeying red traffic lights, No Entry signs, "Pedestrians Only" signs,
Fairy-Cyclists Dismount signs.

That sort of thing.

I'm sure you agree.

Agree.. as far as I'm concerned a motorised vehicle should be considered a weapon in the eyes of the law.

More realistically though.. I can't see a good reason why we have cars which can do over 70mph on the roads. Also the technology is in place today to have your car restrict it'self to the roads speed limit, so why don't we just enforce speed limits at the car level. This wouldn't stop people driving like idiots, but it 'might' force a change how we approach and look at travelling by car. . "The DTLR has stated that "speed is a major contributory factor in around one third of all road traffic accidents. This means that each year excessive and inappropriate speed helps to kill 1,200 people and to injure over 100,000 more". - https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200102/cmselect/cmtlgr/557/55705... (link is external)

Also if I had a wand, I'd ban the widest cars.. they are simply unnecessary and take too much room on the road. Limit all cars sold to 1.8m width maximum, promote small car useage, reduce pollution, wear and tear on the roads..

On 23/01/2023 07:16 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

> Agree.. as far as I'm concerned a motorised vehicle should be considered a weapon in the eyes of the law.

> More realistically though.. I can't see a good reason why we have cars which can do over 70mph on the roads. Also the technology is in place today to have your car restrict it'self to the roads speed limit, so why don't we just enforce speed limits at the car level. This wouldn't stop people driving like idiots, but it 'might' force a change how we approach and look at travelling by car. . "The DTLR has stated that "speed is a major contributory factor in around one third of all road traffic accidents. This means that each year excessive and inappropriate speed helps to kill 1,200 people and to injure over 100,000 more". - https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200102/cmselect/cmtlgr/557/55705... (link is external)

> Also if I had a wand, I'd ban the widest cars.. they are simply unnecessary and take too much room on the road. Limit all cars sold to 1.8m width maximum, promote small car useage, reduce pollution, wear and tear on the roads.

I thought you *did* have a fairy-wand...?

To go with your fairy-cycle and the fantasy costumes you affect?

Also if I had a wand, I'd ban the widest cars.. they are simply unnecessary and take too much room on the road.

You mean like when someone driving on their own in an SUV in a urban environment complains about a cyclist 'taking up all the road'...?

:-)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnL5hEDXgAA0Fso?format=jpg&name=900x900

swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
> Also if I had a wand, I'd ban the widest cars.. they are simply
> unnecessary and take too much room on the road.
>
> You mean like when someone driving on their own in an SUV in a urban
> environment complains about a cyclist 'taking up all the road'...?
>
> :-)
>
> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnL5hEDXgAA0Fso?format=jpg&name=900x900

Cyclist:

- at least 0.75m from kerb

- width of bike 0.5m

- ‘feel safe’ clearance distance 1.5m

- wobble or sudden swerve allowance 2m

Total room taken up by cyclist = 4.75m

Width of road, as low as 6.2m

Remaining width 1.45m, all in the oncoming lane.

Width of SUV = 2.0m

SLAM DUNK, THICKO.

--
Spike

Another hit and run.
Becoming more and more common.
Where has peoples moral standards disappeared to?
Since Brexit no one seems to give a fuck anymore.

Leadership. If the people in government for 13 years have zero morals, the public will tend to follow

swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
> Another hit and run.
> Becoming more and more common.
> Where has peoples moral standards disappeared to?
> Since Brexit no one seems to give a fuck anymore.

> Leadership. If the people in government for 13 years have zero morals,
> the public will tend to follow

Dennis Healey pledged to ‘make the pips squeak’, and unsurprisingly he and
his friends got richer.

--
Spike

Yes. However as we know the logic always runs in the opposite direction for "prestige technology" / "stuff the government isn't against". So it goes: because there aren't rules against it, someone will do it. If the fad gets traction (realistically - if some company heavily promotes it to make them money) it may then become the norm as everyone rushes to get their piece of the action. At that point, "our streets / garages / parking spaces are too narrow!". There's then massive pressure from people AND organisations on authorities to make everywhere suitable for the new thing and codify that.

This actually happens. Plenty of actual complaints of "we have to park on the road because our garage is too small for the (now standard) vehicles we bought". Or "we have to have three cars - we both have jobs and our eldest needs a car - and there is only space for one on the drive".

swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes. However as we know the logic always runs in the opposite direction
> for "prestige technology" / "stuff the government isn't against". So it
> goes: because there aren't rules against it, someone will do it. If the
> fad gets traction (realistically - if some company heavily promotes it to
> make them money) it may then become the norm as everyone rushes to get
> their piece of the action. At that point, "our streets / garages /
> parking spaces are too narrow!". There's then massive pressure from
> people AND organisations on authorities to make everywhere suitable for
> the new thing and codify that.

> This actually happens. Plenty of actual complaints of "we have to park
> on the road because our garage is too small for the (now standard)
> vehicles we bought". Or "we have to have three cars - we both have jobs
> and our eldest needs a car - and there is only space for one on the drive".

The wide boulevards in French cities were designed that way in order that
soldiers would have clear fields of fire.

--
Spike

It did seem startlingly low to me as well (I think my letterbox is actually further away than that), but looking at the village where I used to live, I'd regularly see neighbours drive to local corner shops or drop thier kids off at school by car (journeys of 200-300m), so I can believe it.

There are commenters on this site that tell us that we shouldn't try to reduce car use because that would be like "19th century living". And others that will claim that they live in St Just and work in Glasgow, so obviously everyone needs to make every journey by car. But the reality is that the average car journey is pretty short, and a lot of car journeys (personally I'd say around half) really cannot be justified as being car journeys. Sure, we need to improve public transport and active travel infra, also things like the 4-day week and WFH being enshrined as a right for any job where it would be feasable would take a lot of cars off the road. But honestly, I think a big part of the problem is that there's a worrying number of people that would actually drive to the fridge if they could.

swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
> It did seem startlingly low to me as well (I think my letterbox is
> actually further away than that), but looking at the village where I used
> to live, I'd regularly see neighbours drive to local corner shops or drop
> thier kids off at school by car (journeys of 200-300m), so I can believe it.
>
> There are commenters on this site that tell us that we shouldn't try to
> reduce car use because that would be like "19th century living". And
> others that will claim that they live in St Just and work in Glasgow, so
> obviously everyone needs to make every journey by car. But the reality is
> that the average car journey is pretty short, and a lot of car journeys
> (personally I'd say around half) really cannot be justified as being car
> journeys. Sure, we need to improve public transport and active travel
> infra, also things like the 4-day week and WFH being enshrined as a right
> for any job where it would be feasable would take a lot of cars off the
> road. But honestly, I think a big part of the problem is that there's a
> worrying number of people that would actually drive to the fridge if they could.

What a dismal worldview.

--
Spike

On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 9:56:10 AM UTC, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> That petition doesn't go far enough. Banning people after they've killed someone is not enough. The whole punishment/points system for owning a motor vehicle licence needs overhauling. Owning a licence should be seen as a privilege and not a right. All serious driving offences should carry the threat of a lifetime ban. If you can't be trusted to drive responsibly, then simply, you should not be allowed to drive.

Bungle_52 replied to peted76 | 634 posts | 1 day ago
4 likes

You are correct but this is a move in the right direction and the more often parliament has to respond the more likely we are to get change. The petition is now at 7539. 2461 needed to get a response.

I hope I got my sums right

On 23/01/2023 09:05 pm, swldx...@gmail.com...

....talking to HIMSELF, though he has snipped the attribution line for
the post to which he was responding, said:

> Also if I had a wand, I'd ban the widest cars.. they are simply unnecessary and take too much room on the road.
>
> You mean like when someone driving on their own in an SUV in a urban environment complains about a fairy-cyclist 'taking up all the road'...?
>
> :-)
>
> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnL5hEDXgAA0Fso?format=jpg&name=900x900
If you don't know, why don't you just ask yourself?

On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 4:45:11 PM UTC, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 9:56:10 AM UTC, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> > That petition doesn't go far enough. Banning people after they've killed someone is not enough. The whole punishment/points system for owning a motor vehicle licence needs overhauling. Owning a licence should be seen as a privilege and not a right. All serious driving offences should carry the threat of a lifetime ban. If you can't be trusted to drive responsibly, then simply, you should not be allowed to drive.
> Bungle_52 replied to peted76 | 634 posts | 1 day ago
> 4 likes
>
> You are correct but this is a move in the right direction and the more often parliament has to respond the more likely we are to get change. The petition is now at 7539. 2461 needed to get a response.
>
> I hope I got my sums right

They're spot on.

On 24/01/2023 04:37 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

> It did seem startlingly low to me as well (I think my letterbox is actually further away than that), but looking at the village where I used to live, I'd regularly see neighbours drive to local corner shops or drop thier kids off at school by car (journeys of 200-300m), so I can believe it.
>
> There are commenters on this site that tell us that we shouldn't try to reduce car use because that would be like "19th century living". And others that will claim that they live in St Just and work in Glasgow, so obviously everyone needs to make every journey by car. But the reality is that the average car journey is pretty short, and a lot of car journeys (personally I'd say around half) really cannot be justified as being car journeys. Sure, we need to improve public transport and active travel infra, also things like the 4-day week and WFH being enshrined as a right for any job where it would be feasable would take a lot of cars off the road. But honestly, I think a big part of the problem is that there's a worrying number of people that would actually drive to the fridge if they could.

"...the average car journey is pretty short..."

How "short"?

On 24/01/2023 04:48 pm, swldx...@gmail.com...

....talking to himself again, said:

> On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 4:45:11 PM UTC, swldx...@gmail.com...

....talking to himself again, said:

>> On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 9:56:10 AM UTC, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

>>> That petition doesn't go far enough. Banning people after they've killed someone is not enough. The whole punishment/points system for owning a motor vehicle licence needs overhauling. Owning a licence should be seen as a privilege and not a right. All serious driving offences should carry the threat of a lifetime ban. If you can't be trusted to drive responsibly, then simply, you should not be allowed to drive.
>
>> You are correct but this is a move in the right direction and the more often parliament has to respond the more likely we are to get change. The petition is now at 7539. 2461 needed to get a response.
>
>> I hope I got my sums right
>
> They're spot on.

It's easy when you mark your own homework, eh?

On Sunday, January 22, 2023 at 9:31:26 PM UTC, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> It's sad to see yet another two families devastated by dangerous driving. This story was considered important enough to be on the national (radio) news earlier today which is unusual. Good to hear they have already arrested a suspect but not looking forward to the inevitable lenient sentence.
>
> What sort of car was it? . . . . Oh, needn't have asked.

UK is looking more like the modern version instead of the 1970's - good to see.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnQZGryXEAsMN58?format=jpg&name=medium