Leading cycling campaigners in Scotland have been discussing the potential road safety implications of allowing cyclists to ride through red lights.

Speaking to Scotland on Sunday (link is external) figures from campaign groups such as Bike for Good, Cycling Scotland and Spokes shared differing opinions on the matter, with disagreements over whether such changes were necessary and what safety improvements they would have.

As per the Highway Code, informed by the Road Traffic Act 1988 section 36 (link is external), cyclists 'must obey all traffic signs and traffic light signals' and 'must not cross the stop line when the traffic lights are red'..

This differs from road laws in other parts of the world, notably in some parts of the United States and France where cyclists are permitted to proceed at red lights in certain circumstances, something Gregory Kinsman-Chauvet of Bike for Good believes should be implemented closer to home.

"After reading various studies proving that removing the obligation for cyclists to stop at red lights increased safety, I decided to test it myself," he told the Scotsman's Sunday sister paper, arguing a change of road rules could allow those on bicycles to travel through red lights at specially marked junctions after giving way to pedestrians.

"In Paris and Lyon last summer I had the opportunity to experience this and quickly felt much safer on the road. At junctions motorists knew they had to prioritise cyclists and were more cautious — it's time to change mindsets."

However, not everyone agrees, Cycling Scotland's cycling safety manager Simon Bradshaw suggested Scotland's road laws are too different to France's to be compared and questioned if such action should even be a priority.

"There are many actions needed to improve safety for people cycling and we don't believe that permitting people to cycle through red lights is one of them," he said.

"Red lights — and green figures — ensure people can cross roads more safely and confidently. Scotland also has very different rules of the road to France, making it complex to replicate. The recent updates to the Highway Code, if followed, make our roads safer for everyone."

Likewise, Ian Maxwell of the Lothian cycling campaign group Spokes, told the Sunday newspaper he does not believe the matter is "necessary".
red light CitizenM_Glasgow_Hotel_02

"I would like to see all motorists respecting advance stop lines before we try this approach," he explained.

"There is also the question of why this particular priority is necessary. Cycling is already a fast and reliable way of getting through city centres, even if you have to wait at a few red lights."

Just last year Colorado approved a bill to let cyclists ride through red lights with the aim of cutting collision numbers by reducing interactions at junctions between drivers and people on bikes.

The rule change does still require riders to briefly stop at red lights to give way to any vehicles or pedestrians before continuing on their way.

Elsewhere, in Paris, since 2015 cyclists are permitted to travel straight or make right turns through reds when at specially signed junctions, a law change that followed a successful pilot scheme.

"They [red lights] were installed so that car drivers would let pedestrians cross the road, to regulate the flow of traffic and to moderate the speed," Christine Lambert of the campaign group Mieux Se Déplacer à Bicyclette (MDB) said at the time.

"But bicycles don't go fast and don't make any noise. It's idiotic to stop for nothing. You waste energy and it slows you down. The best safety assets for cyclists are your eyes and your brain."

Coverage of cyclists and red lights here in the UK is often a divisive topic, with headlines such as 'Red light Rats!' appearing in the Mail on Sunday after the paper accused 26 "rogue cyclists" of jumping lights outside Buckingham Palace.

The story of last August led to accusations of the article being "manufactured" and "dehumanising" after it was discovered the road was closed to motor traffic and police officers had urged bicycle riders to continue through the lights.

Earlier this month a Deliveroo food delivery cyclist based in Edinburgh spoke out about the pressures of the job and said the struggle to make ends meet leads many couriers to break traffic laws, such as jumping red lights.

"I do not have any issue with laws, and as a recreational club cyclist, I feel some obligation to not give cyclists a bad name and fuel anti-cyclist attitudes held by many motorists. Riding for Deliveroo, I have the opposite mindset," he said.

"If every road law was to be followed, it could easily add five minutes to a delivery, which would cut my income by 20 per cent.

"My normal 'Roo' daytime income averages £10-12 per hour. To reduce that by 20 per cent is therefore not realistic. Most Roo cyclists will, like me, not follow all road laws."

https://road.cc/content/news/should-cyclists-be-allowed-ride-through-red-lights-298809

On 23/01/2023 11:20 am, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

> Leading fairy-cycling campaigners in Scotland have been discussing the potential road safety implications of allowing fairy-cyclists to ride through red lights.
>
> Speaking to Scotland on Sunday (link is external) figures from campaign groups such as Bike for Good, Fairy-Cycling Scotland and Spokes shared differing opinions on the matter, with disagreements over whether such changes were necessary and what safety improvements they would have.
>
> As per the Highway Code, informed by the Road Traffic Act 1988 section 36 (link is external), fairy-cyclists 'must obey all traffic signs and traffic light signals' and 'must not cross the stop line when the traffic lights are red'.
>
> This differs from road laws in other parts of the world, notably in some parts of the United States and France where fairy-cyclists are permitted to proceed at red lights in certain circumstances, something Gregory Kinsman-Chauvet of Bike for Good believes should be implemented closer to home.

In fact, with only a very few exceptions (such as New York City), *all*
road users are allowed to turn right at red traffic lights unless there
is signage expressly to the contrary.

That, of course, is the exact equivalent of turning left in the UK,
Ireland, Malta or Japan.

It would perhaps be a very welcome and useful change to the law here,
with left-turning traffic still obliged to give way to vehicles
(including fairy-cycles) proceeding through *green* traffic lights.

> "After reading various studies proving that removing the obligation for fairy-cyclists to stop at red lights increased safety,

:-) Hahahahahahaha!

> I decided to test it myself," he told the Scotsman's Sunday sister paper, arguing a change of road rules could allow those on fairy-bicycles to travel through red lights at specially marked junctions after giving way to pedestrians.
>
> "In Paris and Lyon last summer I had the opportunity to experience this and quickly felt much safer on the road. At junctions motorists knew they had to prioritise fairy-cyclists and were more cautious — it's time to change [the] mindsets...

....of entitled fairy-cyclists".
>
> However, not everyone agrees, [that should have been a full stop - Ed.]

> Fairy-Cycling Scotland's cycling safety manager Simon Bradshaw suggested Scotland's road laws are too different to France's to be compared and questioned if such action should even be a priority.
>
> "There are many actions needed to improve safety for people fairy-cycling and we don't believe that permitting people to fairy-cycle through red lights is one of them," he said.

At least one fairy-cyclist has some inkling that other people have
rights too.
>
> "Red lights — and green figures — ensure people can cross roads more safely and confidently. Scotland also has very different rules of the road to France, making it complex to replicate. The recent updates to the Highway Code, if followed, make our roads safer for everyone."
>
> Likewise, Ian Maxwell of the Lothian fairy-cycling campaign group Spokes, told the Sunday newspaper he does not believe the matter is "necessary".
> red light CitizenM_Glasgow_Hotel_02
>
> "I would like to see all motorists respecting advance stop lines before we try this approach," he explained.
>
> "There is also the question of why this particular priority is necessary. Fairy-cycling is already a fast and reliable way of getting through city centres, even if you have to wait at a few red lights."
>
> Just last year Colorado approved a bill to let fairy-cyclists ride through red lights with the aim of cutting collision numbers by reducing interactions at junctions between drivers and people on fairy-bikes.
>
> The rule change does still require fairy-riders to briefly stop at red lights to give way to any vehicles or pedestrians before continuing on their way.

Really?
>
> Elsewhere, in Paris, since 2015 fairy-cyclists are permitted to travel straight or make right turns through reds when at specially signed junctions, a law change that followed a successful pilot scheme.
>
> "They [red lights] were installed so that car drivers would let pedestrians cross the road, to regulate the flow of traffic and to moderate the speed," Christine Lambert of the campaign group Mieux Se Déplacer à Fée-Bicyclette (MDB) said at the time.
>
> "But fairy-bicycles don't go fast and don't make any noise.

Relevance?

> It's idiotic to stop for nothing. You waste energy and it slows you down. The best safety assets for fairy-cyclists are your eyes and your brain."

....just the two parts of fairy-cyclists that get least use, in fact.
>
> Coverage of fairy-cyclists and red lights here in the UK is often a divisive topic,

Why is that, one wonders?

> with headlines such as 'Red light Rats!' appearing in the Mail on Sunday after the paper accused 26 "rogue fairy-cyclists" of jumping lights outside Buckingham Palace.
>
> The story of last August led to accusations of the article being "manufactured" and "dehumanising" after it was discovered the road was closed to motor traffic and police officers had urged fairy-bicycle riders to continue through the lights.

Police officers are neither entitled nor authorised to issue such
instructions.

No wonder the Met Police have fallen in public esteem.

That's if thw fairy-cyclist who wrote that was telling the truth
(probability? Near zero).

> Earlier this month a Deliveroo food delivery fairy-cyclist based in Edinburgh spoke out about the pressures of the job and said the struggle to make ends meet leads many couriers to break traffic laws, such as jumping red lights.

Any professional driver could make the same nonsensical (and entirely
selfish) claim. It would be just as valid.

> "I do not have any issue with laws,

....except when they apply to fairy-cyclists, you mean?

> and as a recreational club fairy-cyclist, I feel some obligation to not give fairy-cyclists a bad name and fuel fairy-anti-cyclist attitudes held by many motorists. Riding for Deliveroo, I have the opposite mindset," he said.

You can get treatment for that.
>
> "If every road law was to be followed, it could easily add five minutes to a delivery, which would cut my income by 20 per cent.

So what?

If disobeying every traffic law would increase a skip-lorry driver's
income by 20%, would you be in favour of his doing so?

If not, why not?

> "My normal 'Roo' daytime income averages £10-12 per hour. To reduce that by 20 per cent is therefore not realistic. Most Roo fairy-cyclists will, like me, not follow all road laws."

We are all already only too well aware of the scofflaw chav nature and
behaviour of most fairy-cyclists.

> https://road.cc/content/news/should-cyclists-be-allowed-ride-through-red-lights-298809

Ah... that explains it.

The illiterate chav website for illiterate chavs on fairy-bikes.

On Monday, 23 January 2023 at 11:55:24 UTC, JNugent wrote:
> On 23/01/2023 11:20 am, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > Leading fairy-cycling campaigners in Scotland have been discussing the potential road safety implications of allowing fairy-cyclists to ride through red lights.
> >
> > Speaking to Scotland on Sunday (link is external) figures from campaign groups such as Bike for Good, Fairy-Cycling Scotland and Spokes shared differing opinions on the matter, with disagreements over whether such changes were necessary and what safety improvements they would have.
> >
> > As per the Highway Code, informed by the Road Traffic Act 1988 section 36 (link is external), fairy-cyclists 'must obey all traffic signs and traffic light signals' and 'must not cross the stop line when the traffic lights are red'.
> >
> > This differs from road laws in other parts of the world, notably in some parts of the United States and France where fairy-cyclists are permitted to proceed at red lights in certain circumstances, something Gregory Kinsman-Chauvet of Bike for Good believes should be implemented closer to home.
>
> In fact, with only a very few exceptions (such as New York City), *all*
> road users are allowed to turn right at red traffic lights unless there
> is signage expressly to the contrary.
>
> That, of course, is the exact equivalent of turning left in the UK,
> Ireland, Malta or Japan.
>
> It would perhaps be a very welcome and useful change to the law here,
> with left-turning traffic still obliged to give way to vehicles
> (including fairy-cycles) proceeding through *green* traffic lights.
>
> > "After reading various studies proving that removing the obligation for fairy-cyclists to stop at red lights increased safety,
>
> :-) Hahahahahahaha!
>
> > I decided to test it myself," he told the Scotsman's Sunday sister paper, arguing a change of road rules could allow those on fairy-bicycles to travel through red lights at specially marked junctions after giving way to pedestrians.
> >
> > "In Paris and Lyon last summer I had the opportunity to experience this and quickly felt much safer on the road. At junctions motorists knew they had to prioritise fairy-cyclists and were more cautious — it's time to change [the] mindsets...
>
> ...of entitled fairy-cyclists".
> >
> > However, not everyone agrees, [that should have been a full stop - Ed.]
>
> > Fairy-Cycling Scotland's cycling safety manager Simon Bradshaw suggested Scotland's road laws are too different to France's to be compared and questioned if such action should even be a priority.
> >
> > "There are many actions needed to improve safety for people fairy-cycling and we don't believe that permitting people to fairy-cycle through red lights is one of them," he said.
>
> At least one fairy-cyclist has some inkling that other people have
> rights too.
> >
> > "Red lights — and green figures — ensure people can cross roads more safely and confidently. Scotland also has very different rules of the road to France, making it complex to replicate. The recent updates to the Highway Code, if followed, make our roads safer for everyone."
> >
> > Likewise, Ian Maxwell of the Lothian fairy-cycling campaign group Spokes, told the Sunday newspaper he does not believe the matter is "necessary".
> > red light CitizenM_Glasgow_Hotel_02
> >
> > "I would like to see all motorists respecting advance stop lines before we try this approach," he explained.
> >
> > "There is also the question of why this particular priority is necessary. Fairy-cycling is already a fast and reliable way of getting through city centres, even if you have to wait at a few red lights."
> >
> > Just last year Colorado approved a bill to let fairy-cyclists ride through red lights with the aim of cutting collision numbers by reducing interactions at junctions between drivers and people on fairy-bikes.
> >
> > The rule change does still require fairy-riders to briefly stop at red lights to give way to any vehicles or pedestrians before continuing on their way.
>
> Really?
> >
> > Elsewhere, in Paris, since 2015 fairy-cyclists are permitted to travel straight or make right turns through reds when at specially signed junctions, a law change that followed a successful pilot scheme.
> >
> > "They [red lights] were installed so that car drivers would let pedestrians cross the road, to regulate the flow of traffic and to moderate the speed," Christine Lambert of the campaign group Mieux Se Déplacer à Fée-Bicyclette (MDB) said at the time.
> >
> > "But fairy-bicycles don't go fast and don't make any noise.
>
> Relevance?
>
> > It's idiotic to stop for nothing. You waste energy and it slows you down. The best safety assets for fairy-cyclists are your eyes and your brain."
>
> ...just the two parts of fairy-cyclists that get least use, in fact.
> >
> > Coverage of fairy-cyclists and red lights here in the UK is often a divisive topic,
>
> Why is that, one wonders?
>
> > with headlines such as 'Red light Rats!' appearing in the Mail on Sunday after the paper accused 26 "rogue fairy-cyclists" of jumping lights outside Buckingham Palace.
> >
> > The story of last August led to accusations of the article being "manufactured" and "dehumanising" after it was discovered the road was closed to motor traffic and police officers had urged fairy-bicycle riders to continue through the lights.
>
> Police officers are neither entitled nor authorised to issue such
> instructions.
>
> No wonder the Met Police have fallen in public esteem.
>
> That's if thw fairy-cyclist who wrote that was telling the truth
> (probability? Near zero).
>
> > Earlier this month a Deliveroo food delivery fairy-cyclist based in Edinburgh spoke out about the pressures of the job and said the struggle to make ends meet leads many couriers to break traffic laws, such as jumping red lights.
>
> Any professional driver could make the same nonsensical (and entirely
> selfish) claim. It would be just as valid.
> > "I do not have any issue with laws,
> ...except when they apply to fairy-cyclists, you mean?
>
> > and as a recreational club fairy-cyclist, I feel some obligation to not give fairy-cyclists a bad name and fuel fairy-anti-cyclist attitudes held by many motorists. Riding for Deliveroo, I have the opposite mindset," he said.
>
> You can get treatment for that.
> >
> > "If every road law was to be followed, it could easily add five minutes to a delivery, which would cut my income by 20 per cent.
> So what?
>
> If disobeying every traffic law would increase a skip-lorry driver's
> income by 20%, would you be in favour of his doing so?
>
> If not, why not?
>
> > "My normal 'Roo' daytime income averages £10-12 per hour. To reduce that by 20 per cent is therefore not realistic. Most Roo fairy-cyclists will, like me, not follow all road laws."
>
> We are all already only too well aware of the scofflaw chav nature and
> behaviour of most fairy-cyclists.
>
> > https://road.cc/content/news/should-cyclists-be-allowed-ride-through-red-lights-298809
>
> Ah... that explains it.
>
> The illiterate chav website for illiterate chavs on fairy-bikes.

Left turn on red is just one way they could improve traffic flow at traffic light junctions if they really wanted to.

For example, LEDs on the road surface could be used to create “dynamic lanes” which intelligently gave more priority and capacity to the main traffic flows at the time of day.

Traffic lights on roundabouts could also be a lot more intelligent, with judicious use of flashing yellow to mean “give way”.

How refreshing it would be to see all today’s technology used in a positive way to improve every road user’s journey.

But, of course, they don’t want to do it. Mason types will claim it’s not possible to help Scum Drivers make progress without endangering Angel Cyclists, but there is absolutely no reason to believe it’s a zero sum game in that way.

I’m torn on this one. There are definite safety benefits to it on roads with clear visibility, and I must say that personally, one of the situations that makes me feel the most vulnerable is sitting at a red light with a queue of cars behind me - knowing that as soon as the light goes green, I’m going to have 4-5 of them race forward and try to squeeze me through the road furniture on the other side of the junction. There are quite a few non “smart” lights near me that are just on timers where it would usually be perfectly safe for me to roll through and re-establish my position on the road well before the drivers behind have a chance to grind me into a traffic island. I also think it would make a lot of left-turns safer. I also (though it's been a long time since I've done any reading on it) seem to recall the Idaho stop resulting in a fairly significant drop in cyclist KSIs - though US roads, driving attitudes and rules are quite different, so you couldn't automatically assume the same would be true here.

On the other hand - there’s already so much animosity and misinformation towards cyclists already due to constant crap in the media. If this was ever even proposed, let alone enacted, I can’t imagine a reality where the right-wing gutter press wouldn’t make it their mission to turn the roads into open-season for cyclists. Remember when the Government updated the highway code but decided against any public information or publicity of any sort and just left it up to the Telegraph and the Daily Mail to run with the “cyclists are taking over at YOUR expense” line? Did anyone else notice a massive uptick in abuse on the roads for the period until the news cycle rolled onto something else. I sure as fuck did.

On Monday, 23 January 2023 at 11:20:56 UTC, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> Leading cycling campaigners in Scotland have been discussing the potential road safety implications of allowing cyclists to ride through red lights.
>
> Speaking to Scotland on Sunday (link is external) figures from campaign groups such as Bike for Good, Cycling Scotland and Spokes shared differing opinions on the matter, with disagreements over whether such changes were necessary and what safety improvements they would have.
>
> As per the Highway Code, informed by the Road Traffic Act 1988 section 36 (link is external), cyclists 'must obey all traffic signs and traffic light signals' and 'must not cross the stop line when the traffic lights are red'.
>
> This differs from road laws in other parts of the world, notably in some parts of the United States and France where cyclists are permitted to proceed at red lights in certain circumstances, something Gregory Kinsman-Chauvet of Bike for Good believes should be implemented closer to home.
>
> "After reading various studies proving that removing the obligation for cyclists to stop at red lights increased safety, I decided to test it myself," he told the Scotsman's Sunday sister paper, arguing a change of road rules could allow those on bicycles to travel through red lights at specially marked junctions after giving way to pedestrians.
>
> "In Paris and Lyon last summer I had the opportunity to experience this and quickly felt much safer on the road. At junctions motorists knew they had to prioritise cyclists and were more cautious — it's time to change mindsets."
>
> However, not everyone agrees, Cycling Scotland's cycling safety manager Simon Bradshaw suggested Scotland's road laws are too different to France's to be compared and questioned if such action should even be a priority.
>
> "There are many actions needed to improve safety for people cycling and we don't believe that permitting people to cycle through red lights is one of them," he said.
>
> "Red lights — and green figures — ensure people can cross roads more safely and confidently. Scotland also has very different rules of the road to France, making it complex to replicate. The recent updates to the Highway Code, if followed, make our roads safer for everyone."
>
> Likewise, Ian Maxwell of the Lothian cycling campaign group Spokes, told the Sunday newspaper he does not believe the matter is "necessary".
> red light CitizenM_Glasgow_Hotel_02
>
> "I would like to see all motorists respecting advance stop lines before we try this approach," he explained.
>
> "There is also the question of why this particular priority is necessary. Cycling is already a fast and reliable way of getting through city centres, even if you have to wait at a few red lights."
>
> Just last year Colorado approved a bill to let cyclists ride through red lights with the aim of cutting collision numbers by reducing interactions at junctions between drivers and people on bikes.
>
> The rule change does still require riders to briefly stop at red lights to give way to any vehicles or pedestrians before continuing on their way.
>
> Elsewhere, in Paris, since 2015 cyclists are permitted to travel straight or make right turns through reds when at specially signed junctions, a law change that followed a successful pilot scheme.
>
> "They [red lights] were installed so that car drivers would let pedestrians cross the road, to regulate the flow of traffic and to moderate the speed," Christine Lambert of the campaign group Mieux Se Déplacer à Bicyclette (MDB) said at the time.
>
> "But bicycles don't go fast and don't make any noise. It's idiotic to stop for nothing. You waste energy and it slows you down. The best safety assets for cyclists are your eyes and your brain."
>
> Coverage of cyclists and red lights here in the UK is often a divisive topic, with headlines such as 'Red light Rats!' appearing in the Mail on Sunday after the paper accused 26 "rogue cyclists" of jumping lights outside Buckingham Palace.
>
> The story of last August led to accusations of the article being "manufactured" and "dehumanising" after it was discovered the road was closed to motor traffic and police officers had urged bicycle riders to continue through the lights.
>
> Earlier this month a Deliveroo food delivery cyclist based in Edinburgh spoke out about the pressures of the job and said the struggle to make ends meet leads many couriers to break traffic laws, such as jumping red lights.
>
> "I do not have any issue with laws, and as a recreational club cyclist, I feel some obligation to not give cyclists a bad name and fuel anti-cyclist attitudes held by many motorists. Riding for Deliveroo, I have the opposite mindset," he said.
>
> "If every road law was to be followed, it could easily add five minutes to a delivery, which would cut my income by 20 per cent.
>
> "My normal 'Roo' daytime income averages £10-12 per hour. To reduce that by 20 per cent is therefore not realistic. Most Roo cyclists will, like me, not follow all road laws."
>
> https://road.cc/content/news/should-cyclists-be-allowed-ride-through-red-lights-298809

We have been reliably informed many times that cyclists never stop for red lights yet we do not hear daily reports of carnage so why not make it legal?

On Monday, 23 January 2023 at 13:39:06 UTC, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> I’m torn on this one. There are definite safety benefits to it on roads with clear visibility, and I must say that personally, one of the situations that makes me feel the most vulnerable is sitting at a red light with a queue of cars behind me - knowing that as soon as the light goes green, I’m going to have 4-5 of them race forward and try to squeeze me through the road furniture on the other side of the junction. There are quite a few non “smart” lights near me that are just on timers where it would usually be perfectly safe for me to roll through and re-establish my position on the road well before the drivers behind have a chance to grind me into a traffic island. I also think it would make a lot of left-turns safer. I also (though it's been a long time since I've done any reading on it) seem to recall the Idaho stop resulting in a fairly significant drop in cyclist KSIs - though US roads, driving attitudes and rules are quite different, so you couldn't automatically assume the same would be true here.
>
> On the other hand - there’s already so much animosity and misinformation towards cyclists already due to constant crap in the media. If this was ever even proposed, let alone enacted, I can’t imagine a reality where the right-wing gutter press wouldn’t make it their mission to turn the roads into open-season for cyclists. Remember when the Government updated the highway code but decided against any public information or publicity of any sort and just left it up to the Telegraph and the Daily Mail to run with the “cyclists are taking over at YOUR expense” line? Did anyone else notice a massive uptick in abuse on the roads for the period until the news cycle rolled onto something else. I sure as fuck did.

The problem with allowing motor vehicles to turn left on red is when you get a cyclist stopped at the light wanting to go straight ahead. Motorists are prone to violence when they think a cyclist is in their way.