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aus+uk / uk.rec.cars.maintenance / Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'

SubjectAuthor
* Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Chris M. White
+* Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Tim+
|+- Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Fredxx
|`* Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Scott
| `* Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Theo
|  `* Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Nick Finnigan
|   `* Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Theo
|    +- Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'tim...
|    +- Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Rod Speed
|    `* Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Nick Finnigan
|     `* Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Theo
|      `* Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Nick Finnigan
|       `* Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Scott
|        `- Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Nick Finnigan
+* Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'alan_m
|+* Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'alan_m
||+- Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'newshound
||`* Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Peter Hill
|| +* Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Cursitor Doom
|| |`* Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Peter Hill
|| | +- Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Cursitor Doom
|| | `- Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Andy Burns
|| `* Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Fredxx
||  `* Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Peter Hill
||   `- Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Cursitor Doom
|+- Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Theo
|`* Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)
| `* Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Adrian Caspersz
|  +- Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Harry Bloomfield, Esq.
|  `- Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Cursitor Doom
+* Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'newshound
|`- Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Harry Bloomfield, Esq.
+* Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Rod Speed
|`* Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Chris M. White
| +- Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Rod Speed
| `* Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Harry Bloomfield, Esq.
|  `* Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'The Natural Philosopher
|   `* Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Harry Bloomfield, Esq.
|    +* Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Cursitor Doom
|    |+* Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'The Natural Philosopher
|    ||`* Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Cursitor Doom
|    || `* Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Andrew
|    ||  +- Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Sam Block
|    ||  `- Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Cursitor Doom
|    |`* Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'The Natural Philosopher
|    | +- Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Cursitor Doom
|    | `* Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Cursitor Doom
|    |  `* Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'The Natural Philosopher
|    |   `* Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'The Natural Philosopher
|    |    `- Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Cursitor Doom
|    `- Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'The Natural Philosopher
+- Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Nick Finnigan
+- Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'steve robinson
+- Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Richard
+- Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)
+* Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Harry Bloomfield, Esq.
|+* Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Chris M. White
||+- Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Spike
||+- Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Harry Bloomfield, Esq.
||`* Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Peter Hill
|| `- Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Chris M. White
|`* Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Nick Finnigan
| `- Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'tim...
+* Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Dave Plowman (News)
|+* Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Harry Bloomfield, Esq.
||`- Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'The Natural Philosopher
|`- Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'Cursitor Doom
`- Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'David

Pages:123
Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'

<se0ngn$ffg$1@dont-email.me>

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From: a...@harrym1byt.plus.com (Harry Bloomfield, Esq.)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance,uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 12:24:08 +0100
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 by: Harry Bloomfield, Es - Fri, 30 Jul 2021 11:24 UTC

It happens that Chris M. White formulated :
> I'll try your magnet idea in the first instance and fingers crossed
> that may work, as the lights don't come on until the car's moved some
> distance. Thanks for your input!

It might also be worth trying the same with presurised air to blow it
out, and/or a vacuum cleaner, and/or a the largest paint brush you can
poke through the sensors hole, then spining hub to try to remove the
rust.

Just to confirm - The sensor and wiring are almost certainly fine, if
they pass the 'ignition on', ABS light goes out test.

Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'

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From: a...@harrym1byt.plus.com (Harry Bloomfield, Esq.)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance,uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'
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 by: Harry Bloomfield, Es - Fri, 30 Jul 2021 11:25 UTC

Adrian Caspersz was thinking very hard :
> Open source engine management is a thing, hopeful dream that someone comes up
> with the whole car replacement operating system (OSS, of course) so that we
> don't needlessly throw cars away because the "radio console" doesn't work.

Not from Microsoft I hope?

Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'

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From: a...@harrym1byt.plus.com (Harry Bloomfield, Esq.)
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Subject: Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'
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 by: Harry Bloomfield, Es - Fri, 30 Jul 2021 11:27 UTC

Dave Plowman (News) wrote on 30/07/2021 :
> Sounds like part of that wheel speed sensor, for the ABS and possibly
> traction control etc. And rather odd for the toothed wheel part to fail.
> Are you certain it's not the sensor? They can and do fail.

Not this time, it passes the ignition on static tests.

Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'

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From: tnp...@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance,uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 13:35:54 +0100
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Fri, 30 Jul 2021 12:35 UTC

On 30/07/2021 08:31, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
> on 30/07/2021, Chris M. White supposed :
>> Seems it is, though. Only 2 wires to each sensor feed. The sensors
>> appear to be simple electromagnetic generators which generate a pulse
>> whenever the magnetic strip embedded in the stub axle ring goes past
>> them.
>
> They are the older type, just a coil of wire like a guitar pick-up.
> Modern version is a Hall sensor.

Guitar pickups have a magnet in the coil. No need for rotating magnets -
just teeth on a sensor ring going past will do the job

--
Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early
twenty-first century’s developed world went into hysterical panic over a
globally average temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree, and,
on the basis of gross exaggerations of highly uncertain computer
projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to
contemplate a rollback of the industrial age.

Richard Lindzen

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From: tnp...@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance,uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 13:41:21 +0100
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Fri, 30 Jul 2021 12:41 UTC

On 30/07/2021 12:27, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
> Dave Plowman (News) wrote on 30/07/2021 :
>> Sounds like part of that wheel speed sensor, for the ABS and possibly
>> traction control etc. And rather odd for the toothed wheel part to fail.
>> Are you certain it's not the sensor? They can and do fail.
>
> Not this time, it passes the ignition on static tests.
whether or not there are magnets in the ring (which I doubt: sensible to
put one fixed magnet in the sensor itself and have the magnetic field
modulated by a toothed steel ring) a common fault is rust and other
magnetic materials building up in the ring teeth and making it less
sensitive. A blast with a compressed airline and or applying rust
removal liquids to the ring should sort it.
If it has been failing at progressively lower speeds this is totally
consistent with a weaker signal, cause by slow buildup of magnetic
material in the teeth.

--
"In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is
true: it is true because it is powerful."

Lucas Bergkamp

Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'

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From: a...@harrym1byt.plus.com (Harry Bloomfield, Esq.)
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Subject: Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'
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 by: Harry Bloomfield, Es - Fri, 30 Jul 2021 14:04 UTC

The Natural Philosopher explained on 30/07/2021 :
> Guitar pickups have a magnet in the coil. No need for rotating magnets - just
> teeth on a sensor ring going past will do the job

Thanks, I didn't know they were teeth, knowledge corrected.

Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'

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From: Nix...@genie.co.uk (Nick Finnigan)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance,uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'
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 by: Nick Finnigan - Fri, 30 Jul 2021 07:55 UTC

On 30/07/2021 08:25, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
> Chris M. White wrote on 29/07/2021 :
>> Your thoughts on anything I haven't considered (I mean *technical*
>> issues, not daft observations about legality etc.) I would remind you
>> all there are plenty of classic cars on the road that don't have ABS
>> at all so it's not inherently dangerous.
>
> I think it should probably work, if it passes the ignition on tests, but it
> is highly illegal. If an ABS system is fitted then it it legally required
> to work properly.

What law defines how an ABS system works properly ?

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From: Nix...@genie.co.uk (Nick Finnigan)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y,uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'
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 by: Nick Finnigan - Fri, 30 Jul 2021 16:35 UTC

On 30/07/2021 11:27, Theo wrote:
> In uk.d-i-y Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>> Also, as a modification I assume it would require to be declared to
>> the insurers. I would certainly speak to the underwriter first.
>
> I'm not sure that's a 'modification' on insurers' usual lists, but 'tampered
> with the braking system' is not a good look, either to insurers or if it
> came up in court. And so if there was an accident I could well imagine the
> insurer declining to pay out, which would leave you liable for third party
> losses (don't drive behind a supercar, you can't afford it).

Insurers are not allowed to decline to pay out for third party losses
because of the condition of the vehicle causing the losses.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/part/VI/crossheading/compulsory-insurance-or-security-against-thirdparty-risks/enacted

148 (2) (b)

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 by: David - Fri, 30 Jul 2021 16:50 UTC

On Thu, 29 Jul 2021 20:30:50 +0100, Chris M. White wrote:

> Guys,
>
> I have an aging (18 year old) Mercedes W211 which has developed a fault
> which is causing the dash to light up like a Christmas tree. This one
> fault is causing 3 different warning lights and associated text warnings
> to come up: ABS, ESP and SB. I took it to an independent garage that
> specialises in Mercs and has all the software etc. Turns out the problem
> is a magnetic ring buried deep inside the n/s rear stub axle. The part
> costs peanuts, but is *murder* to get at. Even for a Merc main dealer
> it's half a day's work and requires several special service tools. I was
> quoted over 500 quid to fix it! +VAT!!
>
> So I've come up with an ingenious work-around I'd like to run past you
> all; see if there's any adverse consequences I haven't thought of. The
> car's main CPU thinks the rear n/s wheel is losing grip, because it's
> sensing (wrongly) that the speed of that wheel is diffrerent to the
> speed of the one on the opposite side. How about I snip the feed from
> the n/s sensor and connect it in parallel with the feed from the o/s
> one? That way, the CPU will see the signals as perfectly in synch. The
> sensor on the 'good side' stub axle will then be supplying speed info
> for *both* sides and the duff side will be snipped out of circuit
> altogether.
> Your thoughts on anything I haven't considered (I mean *technical*
> issues, not daft observations about legality etc.) I would remind you
> all there are plenty of classic cars on the road that don't have ABS at
> all so it's not inherently dangerous.

I assume you can't just replace the stub axle?

Cheers

Dave R

--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'

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From: theom+n...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Theo)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y,uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'
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 by: Theo - Fri, 30 Jul 2021 17:01 UTC

In uk.d-i-y Nick Finnigan <Nix@genie.co.uk> wrote:
> Insurers are not allowed to decline to pay out for third party losses
> because of the condition of the vehicle causing the losses.
>
> https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/part/VI/crossheading/compulsory-insurance-or-security-against-thirdparty-risks/enacted

That is presumably so if you're hit by an unroadworthy vehicle the insurance
company can't say 'sorry, unroadworthy, we're not paying'. But it doesn't
mean they can't (try to) recover those costs from the person holding the
insurance policy for that vehicle, because they are in breach of the
insurance T&C and in doing so have caused the insurer a substantial loss.

Theo

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From: timsnew...@gmail.com (tim...)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance,uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 18:49:46 +0100
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 by: tim... - Fri, 30 Jul 2021 17:49 UTC

"Nick Finnigan" <Nix@genie.co.uk> wrote in message
news:se195h$1pfa$1@gioia.aioe.org...
> On 30/07/2021 08:25, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
>> Chris M. White wrote on 29/07/2021 :
>>> Your thoughts on anything I haven't considered (I mean *technical*
>>> issues, not daft observations about legality etc.) I would remind you
>>> all there are plenty of classic cars on the road that don't have ABS
>>> at all so it's not inherently dangerous.
>>
>> I think it should probably work, if it passes the ignition on tests, but
>> it is highly illegal. If an ABS system is fitted then it it legally
>> required to work properly.
>
> What law defines how an ABS system works properly ?

whether the little light the dash tells you it's working properly

coupled with the potential for professional misconduct charges brought
against manufactures (and individual employees thereof) who knowing or even
negligently, engineer a systems that doesn't work, charges which can reach
the level of imprisonment for manslaughter.

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From: timsnew...@gmail.com (tim...)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y,uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 18:52:19 +0100
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 by: tim... - Fri, 30 Jul 2021 17:52 UTC

"Theo" <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
news:Qfv*GWqqy@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
> In uk.d-i-y Nick Finnigan <Nix@genie.co.uk> wrote:
>> Insurers are not allowed to decline to pay out for third party losses
>> because of the condition of the vehicle causing the losses.
>>
>> https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/part/VI/crossheading/compulsory-insurance-or-security-against-thirdparty-risks/enacted
>
> That is presumably so if you're hit by an unroadworthy vehicle the
> insurance
> company can't say 'sorry, unroadworthy, we're not paying'. But it doesn't
> mean they can't (try to) recover those costs from the person holding the
> insurance policy for that vehicle, because they are in breach of the
> insurance T&C and in doing so have caused the insurer a substantial loss.

The sort of person who routinely drives around in an un-roadworthy car is
unlikely to have sufficient funds to be worth suing

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From: cd...@nowhere.com (Cursitor Doom)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance,uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 19:51:00 +0100
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 by: Cursitor Doom - Fri, 30 Jul 2021 18:51 UTC

On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 09:49:38 +0100, Adrian Caspersz
<email@here.invalid> wrote:

>Open source engine management is a thing, hopeful dream that someone
>comes up with the whole car replacement operating system (OSS, of
>course) so that we don't needlessly throw cars away because the "radio
>console" doesn't work.

This is imperative AISI and aligns to the vitally important 'right to
repair' doctrine which is supposed to be being introduced in order to
reduce the shocking amount of 'stuff' ending up in landfill sites.
Manufacturers have monetised the opacity of their operating systems by
making life increasingly difficult for small independent garages and
the DIY-minded car-owner to perform maintenance on newer cars. They
will naturally resist all attempts at reform, the cunts.

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 by: Cursitor Doom - Fri, 30 Jul 2021 18:56 UTC

On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 15:04:38 +0100, Harry Bloomfield, Esq.
<a@harrym1byt.plus.com> wrote:

>The Natural Philosopher explained on 30/07/2021 :
>> Guitar pickups have a magnet in the coil. No need for rotating magnets - just
>> teeth on a sensor ring going past will do the job
>
>Thanks, I didn't know they were teeth, knowledge corrected.

In the vehicle under discussion, they ARE magnets. However, there are
*other* vehicles which use a slightly different technique with a
different kind of sensor and plain steel toothed rings to achieve the
same end. You're more likely to find the toothed ring system used in
distributors, IIRC.

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From: cd...@nowhere.com (Cursitor Doom)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance,uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 20:12:20 +0100
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 by: Cursitor Doom - Fri, 30 Jul 2021 19:12 UTC

On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 12:07:03 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>
>Sounds like part of that wheel speed sensor, for the ABS and possibly
>traction control etc. And rather odd for the toothed wheel part to fail.
>Are you certain it's not the sensor? They can and do fail.

The OP stated the car is a W211 of approx 2003 manufacture.
Consequently, it will not have a toothed ring, but one made with a
bunch of magnets imbedded around it. It's a known issue on this model
that rust particles build up within the axle and are attracted to the
magnets in the ring. Frequently the ring itself also rusts and can
disintegrate entirely eventually. The rings are cheap enough, but
getting at them is a bit of a PITA. Someone has suggested methods of
removing the rust particles via the sensor hole - but good luck
getting the sensor out as achieving that seemingly simple objective
can be as big a PITA as getting to the ring!
--

"You must therefore confess that by 'individual' you mean no other person
than the bourgeois; than the middle-class owner of property. This person
must indeed be swept out of the way, and made impossible."

- Marx & Engels, The Communist Manifesto

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From: tnp...@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance,uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Fri, 30 Jul 2021 19:28 UTC

On 30/07/2021 15:04, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher explained on 30/07/2021 :
>> Guitar pickups have a magnet in the coil. No need for rotating magnets
>> - just teeth on a sensor ring going past will do the job
>
> Thanks, I didn't know they were teeth, knowledge corrected.

I don't know that they are, I am just saying that's all they need to be.

As an engineer, that seems to me to be the simplest solution - lots of
magnets on wheels seems to me to be a manufacturing nightmare

--
The New Left are the people they warned you about.

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Subject: Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Fri, 30 Jul 2021 19:29 UTC

On 30/07/2021 19:56, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 15:04:38 +0100, Harry Bloomfield, Esq.
> <a@harrym1byt.plus.com> wrote:
>
>> The Natural Philosopher explained on 30/07/2021 :
>>> Guitar pickups have a magnet in the coil. No need for rotating magnets - just
>>> teeth on a sensor ring going past will do the job
>>
>> Thanks, I didn't know they were teeth, knowledge corrected.
>
> In the vehicle under discussion, they ARE magnets.

Are you sure? That seems to be to be an expensive and unreliable way to
do it.

However, there are
> *other* vehicles which use a slightly different technique with a
> different kind of sensor and plain steel toothed rings to achieve the
> same end. You're more likely to find the toothed ring system used in
> distributors, IIRC.
>

--
The New Left are the people they warned you about.

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Subject: Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Fri, 30 Jul 2021 19:35 UTC

On 30/07/2021 19:56, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 15:04:38 +0100, Harry Bloomfield, Esq.
> <a@harrym1byt.plus.com> wrote:
>
>> The Natural Philosopher explained on 30/07/2021 :
>>> Guitar pickups have a magnet in the coil. No need for rotating magnets - just
>>> teeth on a sensor ring going past will do the job
>>
>> Thanks, I didn't know they were teeth, knowledge corrected.
>
> In the vehicle under discussion, they ARE magnets. However, there are
> *other* vehicles which use a slightly different technique with a
> different kind of sensor and plain steel toothed rings to achieve the
> same end. You're more likely to find the toothed ring system used in
> distributors, IIRC.
>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNW3YQhwpK4

suggests that that merc uses a 'guitar pickup' and a toothed ring

--
Gun Control: The law that ensures that only criminals have guns.

Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'

<uin8gghm5p0tnfadsbjvqg8kpcmchdnol7@4ax.com>

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From: cd...@nowhere.com (Cursitor Doom)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance,uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 21:20:21 +0100
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 by: Cursitor Doom - Fri, 30 Jul 2021 20:20 UTC

On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 20:29:51 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On 30/07/2021 19:56, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>> On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 15:04:38 +0100, Harry Bloomfield, Esq.
>> <a@harrym1byt.plus.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The Natural Philosopher explained on 30/07/2021 :
>>>> Guitar pickups have a magnet in the coil. No need for rotating magnets - just
>>>> teeth on a sensor ring going past will do the job
>>>
>>> Thanks, I didn't know they were teeth, knowledge corrected.
>>
>> In the vehicle under discussion, they ARE magnets.
>
>Are you sure? That seems to be to be an expensive and unreliable way to
>do it.

Yes and yes.
According to the OP it's a ~2003 W211 so it will use the magnet rings.
And yes, it IS an expensive and unreliable technique!
--

"You must therefore confess that by 'individual' you mean no other person
than the bourgeois; than the middle-class owner of property. This person
must indeed be swept out of the way, and made impossible."

- Marx & Engels, The Communist Manifesto

Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'

<imj6baFambhU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y,uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2021 06:39:04 +1000
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 by: Rod Speed - Fri, 30 Jul 2021 20:39 UTC

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote
> Nick Finnigan <Nix@genie.co.uk> wrote

>> Insurers are not allowed to decline to pay out for third party losses
>> because of the condition of the vehicle causing the losses.

>> https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/part/VI/crossheading/compulsory-insurance-or-security-against-thirdparty-risks/enacted

> That is presumably so if you're hit by an unroadworthy vehicle the
> insurance
> company can't say 'sorry, unroadworthy, we're not paying'. But it doesn't
> mean they can't (try to) recover those costs from the person holding the
> insurance policy for that vehicle, because they are in breach of the
> insurance T&C and in doing so have caused the insurer a substantial loss.

That assumes the unroadworthy vehicle is insured.

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From: Nix...@genie.co.uk (Nick Finnigan)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y,uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 22:24:31 +0100
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 by: Nick Finnigan - Fri, 30 Jul 2021 21:24 UTC

On 30/07/2021 18:01, Theo wrote:
> In uk.d-i-y Nick Finnigan <Nix@genie.co.uk> wrote:
>> Insurers are not allowed to decline to pay out for third party losses
>> because of the condition of the vehicle causing the losses.
>>
>> https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/part/VI/crossheading/compulsory-insurance-or-security-against-thirdparty-risks/enacted
>
> That is presumably so if you're hit by an unroadworthy vehicle the insurance
> company can't say 'sorry, unroadworthy, we're not paying'. But it doesn't
> mean they can't (try to) recover those costs from the person holding the
> insurance policy for that vehicle, because they are in breach of the
> insurance T&C and in doing so have caused the insurer a substantial loss.

No, they are not in breach of the T&C. See above.

Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'

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From: cd...@nowhere.com (Cursitor Doom)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance,uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 23:43:09 +0100
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 by: Cursitor Doom - Fri, 30 Jul 2021 22:43 UTC

On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 20:35:20 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On 30/07/2021 19:56, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>> On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 15:04:38 +0100, Harry Bloomfield, Esq.
>> <a@harrym1byt.plus.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The Natural Philosopher explained on 30/07/2021 :
>>>> Guitar pickups have a magnet in the coil. No need for rotating magnets - just
>>>> teeth on a sensor ring going past will do the job
>>>
>>> Thanks, I didn't know they were teeth, knowledge corrected.
>>
>> In the vehicle under discussion, they ARE magnets. However, there are
>> *other* vehicles which use a slightly different technique with a
>> different kind of sensor and plain steel toothed rings to achieve the
>> same end. You're more likely to find the toothed ring system used in
>> distributors, IIRC.
>>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNW3YQhwpK4
>
>suggests that that merc uses a 'guitar pickup' and a toothed ring

The toothed-ring systems utilise variable reluctance sensors; the year
and model of the car in question do not. Plus, the car in your video
is a completely different year and model from the one under
discussion.
--

"You must therefore confess that by 'individual' you mean no other person
than the bourgeois; than the middle-class owner of property. This person
must indeed be swept out of the way, and made impossible."

- Marx & Engels, The Communist Manifesto

Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'

<Rfv*9gsqy@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>

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From: theom+n...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Theo)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y,uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'
Date: 31 Jul 2021 00:10:47 +0100 (BST)
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 by: Theo - Fri, 30 Jul 2021 23:10 UTC

In uk.d-i-y Nick Finnigan <Nix@genie.co.uk> wrote:
> On 30/07/2021 18:01, Theo wrote:
> > That is presumably so if you're hit by an unroadworthy vehicle the insurance
> > company can't say 'sorry, unroadworthy, we're not paying'. But it doesn't
> > mean they can't (try to) recover those costs from the person holding the
> > insurance policy for that vehicle, because they are in breach of the
> > insurance T&C and in doing so have caused the insurer a substantial loss.
>
> No, they are not in breach of the T&C. See above.

If your policy is invalidated, for example by not telling the insurer about
modifications, and they are forced to pay out, they will seek to recover
costs from you:

https://www.directline.com/assets/pdf/car-insurance-policy-document.pdf

Taking care of your car
You and any person who is covered by this
policy must do all of the following:
>Make sure your car is roadworthy.

Modifications to your car
Modifications are changes to your car’s standard
specification, including optional extras.If you wish to modify your car, you
must tell us what modifications you want to make, and we must agree to them
beforehand.
Modifications include changes to the appearance or the performance of your
car, including wheels, suspension, bodywork, engine and any additional
software features (excluding those provided free as software updates by the
manufacturer). This is not a complete list. If you don’t provide correct and
complete information or inform us of any changes, this could invalidate your
policy or mean we don’t pay claims in full or at all.

Payments made outside the terms of the policy
If we have to make a payment that isn’t covered by this policy because we’re
required to do so under any country’s laws, we may ask you (or the person
who is legally responsible) to pay us back any payment made that isn’t
covered by this policy. This includes any amount that we have to pay because
you don’t provide accurate and complete information.

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From: cd...@nowhere.com (Cursitor Doom)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance,uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2021 00:25:25 +0100
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 by: Cursitor Doom - Fri, 30 Jul 2021 23:25 UTC

On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 20:35:20 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On 30/07/2021 19:56, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>> On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 15:04:38 +0100, Harry Bloomfield, Esq.
>> <a@harrym1byt.plus.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The Natural Philosopher explained on 30/07/2021 :
>>>> Guitar pickups have a magnet in the coil. No need for rotating magnets - just
>>>> teeth on a sensor ring going past will do the job
>>>
>>> Thanks, I didn't know they were teeth, knowledge corrected.
>>
>> In the vehicle under discussion, they ARE magnets. However, there are
>> *other* vehicles which use a slightly different technique with a
>> different kind of sensor and plain steel toothed rings to achieve the
>> same end. You're more likely to find the toothed ring system used in
>> distributors, IIRC.
>>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNW3YQhwpK4
>
>suggests that that merc uses a 'guitar pickup' and a toothed ring

THIS video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEeG9rTJ0zM

Shows the actual model and year. It's sub-3 minutes in length and you
can very clearly see there are no teeth in the new ring he's putting
on.
--

"You must therefore confess that by 'individual' you mean no other person
than the bourgeois; than the middle-class owner of property. This person
must indeed be swept out of the way, and made impossible."

- Marx & Engels, The Communist Manifesto

Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'

<se2v5i$129o$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: skys...@yahoo.com (Peter Hill)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance,uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Outwitting Your Vehicle's 'Brain'
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2021 08:46:59 +0100
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 by: Peter Hill - Sat, 31 Jul 2021 07:46 UTC

On 29/07/2021 21:26, alan_m wrote:
> On 29/07/2021 21:00, alan_m wrote:
>> On 29/07/2021 20:30, Chris M. White wrote:
>>> Guys,
>>>
>>> I have an aging (18 year old) Mercedes W211 which has developed a
>>> fault which is causing the dash to light up like a Christmas tree.
>>> This one fault is causing 3 different warning lights and associated
>>> text warnings to come up: ABS, ESP and SB. I took it to an independent
>>> garage that specialises in Mercs and has all the software etc. Turns
>>> out the problem is a magnetic ring buried deep inside the n/s rear
>>> stub axle. The part costs peanuts, but is *murder* to get at.
>>
>> Is the wire to it on a connector located near the stub axle?  If so is
>> it a fault with the sensor or just a bad connection or corrosion in
>> the connector?
>>
>
> Youtube
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LZFH3npitg
>
> the £500 repair
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xsqy8TeEcA8
>

Be about right at £125/hr. It's at least a 4 hour job and as the camber
and toe adjusters are removed it needs an alignment job.

18mm bolts wtf?

The M12 tri hex bit is available from machine mart in a set with M10,
M12, M14, M16 and M18 bits. I found that out doing rear brake discs on
my bothers Audi A3 after I had bought a Draper set of tri-hex, torx and
hex bits that only went up to M10.

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