Glad RSA batted as england would have done just as bad or even worse.
Robbo took a wicket with a no ball, great catch by pope wasnt rewarded.
broad demoted to first change - great move it seems. stokes got 2
rather lucky wkts, 1st a mispull and the 2nd didnt look out to me,
but DRS confirmed it just was. Apart from the conditions the pitch
seems reasonably ok if a bit sticky in that sometimes the ball
doesnt come on or bounce as much as the batter seems to expect.

Dropping Jansen and choosing 2 spinners was a big call, clearly RSA
expect some traditional spin at OT, and lo, Foakes misses an edge off Leach
in the last over, sort of thing Buttler usually missed standing up, but i'd hoped wouldnt happen once Foakes took over. Perhaps its harsh to expect
this, but if he doesnt start making some big runs with the bat, I'd bring in
Ben Cox, who locals at worcs claim to be the best keeper in the country,
and so disgracefully ignored. Ha!

they also said broad/anderson need 1 more wkt to go past warne/mcgrath
record, although i doubt they opened the bowling that often together.

mike

On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 1:25:57 PM UTC+1, mike wrote:
> Glad RSA batted as england would have done just as bad or even worse.
> Robbo took a wicket with a no ball, great catch by pope wasnt rewarded.
> broad demoted to first change - great move it seems. stokes got 2
> rather lucky wkts, 1st a mispull and the 2nd didnt look out to me,
> but DRS confirmed it just was. Apart from the conditions the pitch
> seems reasonably ok if a bit sticky in that sometimes the ball
> doesnt come on or bounce as much as the batter seems to expect.
>
> Dropping Jansen and choosing 2 spinners was a big call, clearly RSA
> expect some traditional spin at OT, and lo, Foakes misses an edge off Leach
> in the last over, sort of thing Buttler usually missed standing up, but i'd hoped wouldnt happen once Foakes took over. Perhaps its harsh to expect
> this, but if he doesnt start making some big runs with the bat, I'd bring in
> Ben Cox, who locals at worcs claim to be the best keeper in the country,
> and so disgracefully ignored. Ha!
>
> they also said broad/anderson need 1 more wkt to go past warne/mcgrath
> record, although i doubt they opened the bowling that often together.
>
> mike

*Trafford even

suns out now, cue the short stuff perhaps and an RSA recovery?

mike

On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 06:14:05 -0700 (PDT), mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

>On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 1:25:57 PM UTC+1, mike wrote:
>> Glad RSA batted as england would have done just as bad or even worse.
>> Robbo took a wicket with a no ball, great catch by pope wasnt rewarded.
>> broad demoted to first change - great move it seems. stokes got 2
>> rather lucky wkts, 1st a mispull and the 2nd didnt look out to me,
>> but DRS confirmed it just was. Apart from the conditions the pitch
>> seems reasonably ok if a bit sticky in that sometimes the ball
>> doesnt come on or bounce as much as the batter seems to expect.
>>
>> Dropping Jansen and choosing 2 spinners was a big call, clearly RSA
>> expect some traditional spin at OT, and lo, Foakes misses an edge off Leach
>> in the last over, sort of thing Buttler usually missed standing up, but i'd hoped wouldnt happen once Foakes took over. Perhaps its harsh to expect
>> this, but if he doesnt start making some big runs with the bat, I'd bring in
>> Ben Cox, who locals at worcs claim to be the best keeper in the country,
>> and so disgracefully ignored. Ha!
>>
>> they also said broad/anderson need 1 more wkt to go past warne/mcgrath
>> record, although i doubt they opened the bowling that often together.
>>
>> mike
>
>*Trafford even
>
>suns out now, cue the short stuff perhaps and an RSA recovery?
>

There's nearly always one tailender whose luck holds for an annoying
time, and today it was Rabada's turn. The short stuff is a perfectly
good tactic; the mistake is carrying on with it for more than a few
overs at a time. It seems that Stokes has worked that bit out now.

Cheers,

Mike

On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 16:32:50 +0100, Mike Holmans <spam@jackalope.uk>
wrote:
I've only just noticed that Zak Crawley is an even more obsessive
bat-twirler than Alec Stewart.

Cheers,

Mike

On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 05:25:56 -0700 (PDT), mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

>Glad RSA batted as england would have done just as bad or even worse.

There's no guarantee of that.

In his pre-match interview extolling England's new approach, Root did
say that it's a lot more nuanced than the press have made out.

They know that there are times when you have to take the foot off the
gas and absorb pressure for a period: at Lord's they got it wrong and
paid the price.

But that's why F1 teams spend ages testing their cars before the
season starts: they want their drivers to know how the car handles and
how to maximise its performance. Test cricket doesn't allow for
practice of that nature, so England are still learning how to drive
this car well.

And Crawley's innings today has been about absorbing the vast pressure
under which he came into the game. From his point of view, simply
being able to avoid edging it to third slip for two hours is a major
step forward. I'd guess the skipper told him to go out and bat for as
long as possible and not worry about the scoreboard.

Lees and Pope were both undone by superb deliveries. Root made the
same mistake he made at Lord's. Bairstow played the way we're getting
fairly used to.

Cheers,

Mike

In message <l3cfghtrj9d0bij9gfuo193ne9i4d309hr@4ax.com>, Mike Holmans
<spam@jackalope.uk> writes
<snip>
>And Crawley's innings today has been about absorbing the vast pressure
>under which he came into the game. From his point of view, simply being
>able to avoid edging it to third slip for two hours is a major step
>forward. I'd guess the skipper told him to go out and bat for as long
>as possible and not worry about the scoreboard.

Yes, I was very impressed by him today.
--
John Hall
"Home is heaven and orgies are vile,
But you *need* an orgy, once in a while."
Ogden Nash (1902-1971)

On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 8:30:32 PM UTC+1, John Hall wrote:
> In message <l3cfghtrj9d0bij9g...@4ax.com>, Mike Holmans
> <sp...@jackalope.uk> writes
> <snip>
> >And Crawley's innings today has been about absorbing the vast pressure
> >under which he came into the game. From his point of view, simply being
> >able to avoid edging it to third slip for two hours is a major step
> >forward. I'd guess the skipper told him to go out and bat for as long
> >as possible and not worry about the scoreboard.
> Yes, I was very impressed by him today.
> --

i did suggest that someone should anchor the innings and creepy certainly
did that. but they start on triple nelson 2morow, so if they do lose a wkt
straight off i'd prefer it not to be bairstow.

perhaps the short stuff was to make norty so angry that he would fire
his missiles well over the heads of the batters which is what he did.
i think nearly fifth of englands runs came in extras. but if he puts
out any more overs like the 90+ barrage pope got, then its going
be very difficult for england to get much past SA score, when theyve
only really got 2 more batters to come. plus the wkt is helping
the spinners so batting last this time is not gonna be a run fest.

seeing anderson bowling bouncers and the slips disapearing
to the legside boundary when the opp is 120-8 is a bit crazy.
but at least they gave up on it quicker than at lords.

mike

On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 7:17:21 AM UTC+10, mike wrote:
> i did suggest that someone should anchor the innings and creepy certainly
> did that

we had a whole discussion where I said "Bazball is awesome, but it doesn't necessarily work for the openers (due to new ball and fresh bowlers)" and MH took that to mean "JZF SAYS THE WHOLE TEAM MUST ABANDON BAZBALL IMMEDIATELY". He has the eyes and heart of RH.

In message <a4b1b54b-380d-4dbd-b359-5c33d7522915n@googlegroups.com>,
mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>i did suggest that someone should anchor the innings and creepy
>certainly did that. but they start on triple nelson 2morow, so if they
>do lose a wkt straight off i'd prefer it not to be bairstow.
>
>perhaps the short stuff was to make norty so angry that he would fire
>his missiles well over the heads of the batters which is what he did. i
>think nearly fifth of englands runs came in extras. but if he puts out
>any more overs like the 90+ barrage pope got, then its going be very
>difficult for england to get much past SA score, when theyve only
>really got 2 more batters to come. plus the wkt is helping the spinners
>so batting last this time is not gonna be a run fest.
<snip>

Yes, England won't want to have to chase too many in the fourth innings
- though perhaps, given the improbably chases they have brought off
already this summer, we shouldn't be too concerned! I think this
(Friday's) pre-lunch session could be crucial. If it's a good one and
they are, say, 200-4 at lunch, then they could be well on the way to
victory. But with Bairstow and Crawley having to start again, and given
the length of England's tail, they could easily be 200 all out and SA
would be right back in the match.
--
John Hall
"Home is heaven and orgies are vile,
But you *need* an orgy, once in a while."
Ogden Nash (1902-1971)

On 25/08/2022 20:25, John Hall wrote:
> In message <l3cfghtrj9d0bij9gfuo193ne9i4d309hr@4ax.com>, Mike Holmans
> <spam@jackalope.uk> writes
> <snip>
>> And Crawley's innings today has been about absorbing the vast pressure
>> under which he came into the game. From his point of view, simply
>> being able to avoid edging it to third slip for two hours is a major
>> step forward. I'd guess the skipper told him to go out and bat for as
>> long as possible and not worry about the scoreboard.
>
> Yes, I was very impressed by him today.

Andy Zaltzman mentioned this morning that he was 12* when England
reached 100, beating a record for the lowest not out score by an England
opener when 100 was reached, which was previously 17* by (surprise
surprise) Chris Tavare at Madras in 1981/82 (Gooch 82*).

--
David North

On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 11:53:57 AM UTC+1, nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk wrote:
> On 25/08/2022 20:25, John Hall wrote:
> > In message <l3cfghtrj9d0bij9g...@4ax.com>, Mike Holmans
> > <sp...@jackalope.uk> writes
> > <snip>
> >> And Crawley's innings today has been about absorbing the vast pressure
> >> under which he came into the game. From his point of view, simply
> >> being able to avoid edging it to third slip for two hours is a major
> >> step forward. I'd guess the skipper told him to go out and bat for as
> >> long as possible and not worry about the scoreboard.
> >
> > Yes, I was very impressed by him today.
> Andy Zaltzman mentioned this morning that he was 12* when England
> reached 100, beating a record for the lowest not out score by an England
> opener when 100 was reached, which was previously 17* by (surprise
> surprise) Chris Tavare at Madras in 1981/82 (Gooch 82*).
>

I'm concerned that crawleys magnificent 38 might be overshadowed by 2
rhyming bens both scoring 100s in the same innings. saltyman was mumbling
that no keeper has scored 100 after keeping wkt since Prior did it sometime
[well it couldnt be that long ago then].

Back to more old style cricket today. good declaration by stokes. hope his
knee holds together. At least the match will get to the weekend.

mike

In message <003283fd-9cdd-4387-940b-9720132c3ab0n@googlegroups.com>,
mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 11:53:57 AM UTC+1,
>nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk wrote:
>> On 25/08/2022 20:25, John Hall wrote:
>> > In message <l3cfghtrj9d0bij9g...@4ax.com>, Mike Holmans
>> > <sp...@jackalope.uk> writes
>> > <snip>
>> >> And Crawley's innings today has been about absorbing the vast pressure
>> >> under which he came into the game. From his point of view, simply
>> >> being able to avoid edging it to third slip for two hours is a major
>> >> step forward. I'd guess the skipper told him to go out and bat for as
>> >> long as possible and not worry about the scoreboard.
>> >
>> > Yes, I was very impressed by him today.
>> Andy Zaltzman mentioned this morning that he was 12* when England
>> reached 100, beating a record for the lowest not out score by an England
>> opener when 100 was reached, which was previously 17* by (surprise
>> surprise) Chris Tavare at Madras in 1981/82 (Gooch 82*).
>>
>
>I'm concerned that crawleys magnificent 38 might be overshadowed by 2
>rhyming bens both scoring 100s in the same innings.

At least Crawley got plenty of kudos in my newspaper this morning, and
presumably in the rest of the media too.

> saltyman was mumbling
>that no keeper has scored 100 after keeping wkt since Prior did it sometime
>[well it couldnt be that long ago then].

No England keeper, presumably. Thanks to Crawley and Bairstow, at least
Foakes could have a night's rest before going out to bat.

>
>Back to more old style cricket today. good declaration by stokes. hope his
>knee holds together. At least the match will get to the weekend.

A second successive three-day finish is still possible, though. Whilst
part of me would like to see England to win really convincingly, I'd
also like to have plenty of cricket to watch on Sunday. Lancashire must
also hope that play goes well into Sunday, to avoid having top refund
ticket holders.

I reckon that SA will need to score over 400 in their second innings,
and probably well over, and hope that by England's second innings
there's lots of help for the spinners (which does seem likely), if they
are to bring off an unlikely win. (Unless substantial time is lost to
the weather, I can't see the match ending in a draw.)
--
John Hall
"Home is heaven and orgies are vile,
But you *need* an orgy, once in a while."
Ogden Nash (1902-1971)

On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 18:51:33 +0100, John Hall
<john_nospam@jhall.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <003283fd-9cdd-4387-940b-9720132c3ab0n@googlegroups.com>,
>mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk> writes

>>
>>I'm concerned that crawleys magnificent 38 might be overshadowed by 2
>>rhyming bens both scoring 100s in the same innings.
>
>At least Crawley got plenty of kudos in my newspaper this morning, and
>presumably in the rest of the media too.

And on commentary, Mark Butcher kept mentioning it as having been
vital and wasn't the only one. I don't think he's proved himself, but
he's lessened the doubts about him.
>
Cheers,

Mike

On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 19:09:43 +0100, Mike Holmans <spam@jackalope.uk>
wrote:

>On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 18:51:33 +0100, John Hall
><john_nospam@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>In message <003283fd-9cdd-4387-940b-9720132c3ab0n@googlegroups.com>,
>>mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>
>>>
>>>I'm concerned that crawleys magnificent 38 might be overshadowed by 2
>>>rhyming bens both scoring 100s in the same innings.
>>
>>At least Crawley got plenty of kudos in my newspaper this morning, and
>>presumably in the rest of the media too.
>
>And on commentary, Mark Butcher kept mentioning it as having been
>vital and wasn't the only one. I don't think he's proved himself, but
>he's lessened the doubts about him.
>>
>Cheers,
>
>Mike

If you have 11 minutes to waste watch the first clip.
https://m.wcostream.com/spongebob-squarepants-season-3-episode-7-as-seen-on-tv-can-you-spare-a-dime

I reckon lots of people, sports people and business people go through
a similar process at some stage. Then they find that the best time to
wear a striped sweater actually is all the time.

max.it

On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 6:54:10 PM UTC+1, John Hall wrote:
>
> I reckon that SA will need to score over 400 in their second innings,
> and probably well over, and hope that by England's second innings
> there's lots of help for the spinners (which does seem likely), if they
> are to bring off an unlikely win. (Unless substantial time is lost to
> the weather, I can't see the match ending in a draw.)

tms also said that RSA havnt drawn a test in yonks, but i dont think theyve
played many tests in the last 3 years. Elgars come in for some stick for not
keeping the same team and doing the same as Lords and putting our batters
under the cosh on the 1st day, but if they get 400, he could still have the
last laugh. Well it could be a very close thing if they do.

mike

On 26/08/2022 20:38, mike wrote:
> On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 6:54:10 PM UTC+1, John Hall wrote:
>>
>> I reckon that SA will need to score over 400 in their second innings,
>> and probably well over, and hope that by England's second innings
>> there's lots of help for the spinners (which does seem likely), if they
>> are to bring off an unlikely win. (Unless substantial time is lost to
>> the weather, I can't see the match ending in a draw.)
>
> tms also said that RSA havnt drawn a test in yonks, but i dont think theyve
> played many tests in the last 3 years.

No, but they have had 42 results since their last draw, which was in
March 2017. For comparison, England have drawn 9 of their last 42 Tests.

--
David North

On 26/08/2022 18:51, John Hall wrote:
> In message <003283fd-9cdd-4387-940b-9720132c3ab0n@googlegroups.com>,
> mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>> saltyman was mumbling
>> that no keeper has scored 100  after keeping wkt since Prior did it
>> sometime
>> [well it couldnt be that long ago then].
>
> No England keeper, presumably.

Yes. Prior did it last in March 2013. There have been 7 other centuries
by England keepers in between (Bairstow 5, Foakes and Buttler 1 each).

> Thanks to Crawley and Bairstow, at least
> Foakes could have a night's rest before going out to bat.

We have to go back to 2010 to find the last England keeper to make 100
having started his innings after keeping the same day. That was Prior
again, and he had only kept for 4 overs that morning.

--
David North

On Sat, 27 Aug 2022 07:34:52 +0100, David North
<nospam@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

>On 26/08/2022 18:51, John Hall wrote:
>> In message <003283fd-9cdd-4387-940b-9720132c3ab0n@googlegroups.com>,
>> mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>>> saltyman was mumbling
>>> that no keeper has scored 100  after keeping wkt since Prior did it
>>> sometime
>>> [well it couldnt be that long ago then].
>>
>> No England keeper, presumably.
>
>Yes. Prior did it last in March 2013. There have been 7 other centuries
>by England keepers in between (Bairstow 5, Foakes and Buttler 1 each).

The salient feature of Prior's innings in 2013 for Zaltzman's purpose
is that it was not in the first innings of the match. Those 7 other
centuries were scored in first innings with England batting first, so
they had not kept in the match before scoring their centuries.

Cheers,

Mike

On Saturday, August 27, 2022 at 8:38:51 AM UTC+1, Mike Holmans wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Aug 2022 07:34:52 +0100, David North
> <nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >On 26/08/2022 18:51, John Hall wrote:
> >> In message <003283fd-9cdd-4387...@googlegroups.com>,
> >> mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
> >>> saltyman was mumbling
> >>> that no keeper has scored 100 after keeping wkt since Prior did it
> >>> sometime
> >>> [well it couldnt be that long ago then].
> >>
> >> No England keeper, presumably.
> >
> >Yes. Prior did it last in March 2013. There have been 7 other centuries
> >by England keepers in between (Bairstow 5, Foakes and Buttler 1 each).
> The salient feature of Prior's innings in 2013 for Zaltzman's purpose
> is that it was not in the first innings of the match. Those 7 other
> centuries were scored in first innings with England batting first, so
> they had not kept in the match before scoring their centuries.
>

Yes indeed. i wonder [trivia hat on] which keeper has kept the longest in the
field before making a 100 or more. i think knott made a 100 vs pakistan
after keeping for nearly 200 overs [not a personal memory, i heard it on
tms].

mike

On 27/08/2022 11:34, mike wrote:
> On Saturday, August 27, 2022 at 8:38:51 AM UTC+1, Mike Holmans wrote:
>> On Sat, 27 Aug 2022 07:34:52 +0100, David North
>> <nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 26/08/2022 18:51, John Hall wrote:
>>>> In message <003283fd-9cdd-4387...@googlegroups.com>,
>>>> mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>>>>> saltyman was mumbling
>>>>> that no keeper has scored 100 after keeping wkt since Prior did it
>>>>> sometime
>>>>> [well it couldnt be that long ago then].
>>>>
>>>> No England keeper, presumably.
>>>
>>> Yes. Prior did it last in March 2013. There have been 7 other centuries
>>> by England keepers in between (Bairstow 5, Foakes and Buttler 1 each).
>> The salient feature of Prior's innings in 2013 for Zaltzman's purpose
>> is that it was not in the first innings of the match. Those 7 other
>> centuries were scored in first innings with England batting first, so
>> they had not kept in the match before scoring their centuries.
>>
>
> Yes indeed. i wonder [trivia hat on] which keeper has kept the longest in the
> field before making a 100 or more. i think knott made a 100 vs pakistan
> after keeping for nearly 200 overs [not a personal memory, i heard it on
> tms].

Yes - 195 overs at Edgbaston in 1971. Only one of those overs was on the
same day as he batted though, as Pakistan declared after one over of Day
3, Asif Iqbal having reached his century.

When Prior did it in 2013, it was in the 4th innings, and he had kept
for 209.5 overs in total, although only 57.2 overs in the NZ 2nd innings.

At Old Trafford in 1998, SA batted for 199.5 overs in the first innings
of the match, but Alec Stewart's century was made when England followed on.

The 1971 instance is the England record for an innings immediately
before the one in which a keeper made a century.

--
David North