They've rolled the arrows of indecision in the Union Jack:

<https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmowner/page/search?id=1122140&domain=1&app=0&mark=UK00003742053>

On 10/02/2022 17:29, Recliner wrote:
> They've rolled the arrows of indecision in the Union Jack:
>
> <https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmowner/page/search?id=1122140&domain=1&app=0&mark=UK00003742053>
>
>

Patriotism, the last refuge of the Scoundrel.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 10/02/2022 17:29, Recliner wrote:
> They've rolled the arrows of indecision in the Union Jack:
>
> <https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmowner/page/search?id=1122140&domain=1&app=0&mark=UK00003742053>
>
>

That's a good find.

We had a talk by the Patent Office as part of our introduction when I
became a civil servant. One of the things he pointed out to us that
trawling recent patent applications, trade marks, etc often most
revealing and he didn't understand why journalists didn't do so.

I don't like them but I guess I shouldn't be very surprised.

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 10/02/2022 17:29, Recliner wrote:
>> They've rolled the arrows of indecision in the Union Jack:
>>
>> <https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmowner/page/search?id=1122140&domain=1&app=0&mark=UK00003742053>
>>
>>
>
> Patriotism, the last refuge of the Scoundrel.
>

It reminded me of how ministers, including Shapps, always try to appear in
front of it.

<martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
> On 10/02/2022 17:29, Recliner wrote:
>> They've rolled the arrows of indecision in the Union Jack:
>>
>> <https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmowner/page/search?id=1122140&domain=1&app=0&mark=UK00003742053>
>>
>>
>
> That's a good find.
>
> We had a talk by the Patent Office as part of our introduction when I
> became a civil servant. One of the things he pointed out to us that
> trawling recent patent applications, trade marks, etc often most
> revealing and he didn't understand why journalists didn't do so.
>
> I don't like them but I guess I shouldn't be very surprised.
>

How long, I wonder, before the SNP demands that different colours be used
in Scotland?

On 10/02/2022 21:48, Recliner wrote:
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 10/02/2022 17:29, Recliner wrote:
>>> They've rolled the arrows of indecision in the Union Jack:
>>>
>>> <https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmowner/page/search?id=1122140&domain=1&app=0&mark=UK00003742053>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Patriotism, the last refuge of the Scoundrel.
>>
>
> It reminded me of how ministers, including Shapps, always try to appear in
> front of it.
>

All part of the Trump Tribute Act.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 10/02/2022 21:55, Recliner wrote:
> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 10/02/2022 17:29, Recliner wrote:
>>> They've rolled the arrows of indecision in the Union Jack:
>>>
>>> <https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmowner/page/search?id=1122140&domain=1&app=0&mark=UK00003742053>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> That's a good find.
>>
>> We had a talk by the Patent Office as part of our introduction when I
>> became a civil servant. One of the things he pointed out to us that
>> trawling recent patent applications, trade marks, etc often most
>> revealing and he didn't understand why journalists didn't do so.
>>
>> I don't like them but I guess I shouldn't be very surprised.
>>
>
> How long, I wonder, before the SNP demands that different colours be used
> in Scotland?
>

Quickly followed by the Welsh demanding an indecisive dragon.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 21:55:59 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
<recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

><martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 10/02/2022 17:29, Recliner wrote:
>>> They've rolled the arrows of indecision in the Union Jack:
>>>
>>> <https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmowner/page/search?id=1122140&domain=1&app=0&mark=UK00003742053>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> That's a good find.
>>
>> We had a talk by the Patent Office as part of our introduction when I
>> became a civil servant. One of the things he pointed out to us that
>> trawling recent patent applications, trade marks, etc often most
>> revealing and he didn't understand why journalists didn't do so.
>>
>> I don't like them but I guess I shouldn't be very surprised.
>>
>
>How long, I wonder, before the SNP demands that different colours be used
>in Scotland?
>
No demand needed, ScotRail is due for nationalisation by the Scottish
Government:-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-56432919

On 11/02/2022 06:44, Charles Ellson wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 21:55:59 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>> On 10/02/2022 17:29, Recliner wrote:
>>>> They've rolled the arrows of indecision in the Union Jack:
>>>>
>>>> <https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmowner/page/search?id=1122140&domain=1&app=0&mark=UK00003742053>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> That's a good find.
>>>
>>> We had a talk by the Patent Office as part of our introduction when I
>>> became a civil servant. One of the things he pointed out to us that
>>> trawling recent patent applications, trade marks, etc often most
>>> revealing and he didn't understand why journalists didn't do so.
>>>
>>> I don't like them but I guess I shouldn't be very surprised.
>>>
>>
>> How long, I wonder, before the SNP demands that different colours be used
>> in Scotland?
>>
> No demand needed, ScotRail is due for nationalisation by the Scottish
> Government:-
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-56432919

So we need a new logo for Little England Railways.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> They've rolled the arrows of indecision in the Union Jack:
>
> <https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmowner/page/search?id=1122140&domain=1&app=0&mark=UK00003742053>

That’s a visually awkward design. They’ve kept the unequal white diagonal
stripes on the upper and lower limbs but by making them equal in the middle
they’ve introduced a vignetting effect. More indecision. Yuck.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> > They've rolled the arrows of indecision in the Union Jack:
> >
> > <https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmowner/page/search?id=1122140&domain=1&app=0&mark=UK00003742053>
>
> That’s a visually awkward design. They’ve kept the unequal white diagonal
> stripes on the upper and lower limbs but by making them equal in the middle
> they’ve introduced a vignetting effect. More indecision. Yuck.

It does feel rather clumsy - in particular the red/blue contrast isn't so
good when displayed at a small scale. I can imagine it not working very
well on signage and similar that needs to be viewed from afar, or in
publications like maps that print it small. Maybe the blue background will
have to be optional?

Theo

On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 06:44:27 +0000, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 21:55:59 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
><recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>><martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>> On 10/02/2022 17:29, Recliner wrote:
>>>> They've rolled the arrows of indecision in the Union Jack:
>>>>
>>>> <https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmowner/page/search?id=1122140&domain=1&app=0&mark=UK00003742053>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> That's a good find.
>>>
>>> We had a talk by the Patent Office as part of our introduction when I
>>> became a civil servant. One of the things he pointed out to us that
>>> trawling recent patent applications, trade marks, etc often most
>>> revealing and he didn't understand why journalists didn't do so.
>>>
>>> I don't like them but I guess I shouldn't be very surprised.
>>>
>>
>>How long, I wonder, before the SNP demands that different colours be used
>>in Scotland?
>>
>No demand needed, ScotRail is due for nationalisation by the Scottish
>Government:-
>https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-56432919

ScotRail doesn't own the tracks.

On 10/02/2022 22:10, Graeme Wall wrote:
> On 10/02/2022 21:48, Recliner wrote:
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 10/02/2022 17:29, Recliner wrote:
>>>> They've rolled the arrows of indecision in the Union Jack:
>>>>
>>>> <https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmowner/page/search?id=1122140&domain=1&app=0&mark=UK00003742053>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Patriotism, the last refuge of the Scoundrel.
>>>
>>
>> It reminded me of how ministers, including Shapps, always try to
>> appear in
>> front of it.
>>
>
> All part of the Trump Tribute Act.

Seen a ScotRail train? Flag livery and a "local railway for local
people" slogan.

--
Arthur Figgis

On 11/02/2022 18:22, Arthur Figgis wrote:
> On 10/02/2022 22:10, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> On 10/02/2022 21:48, Recliner wrote:
>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 10/02/2022 17:29, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> They've rolled the arrows of indecision in the Union Jack:
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmowner/page/search?id=1122140&domain=1&app=0&mark=UK00003742053>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Patriotism, the last refuge of the Scoundrel.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It reminded me of how ministers, including Shapps, always try to
>>> appear in
>>> front of it.
>>>
>>
>> All part of the Trump Tribute Act.
>
> Seen a ScotRail train? Flag livery and a "local railway for local
> people" slogan.
>
>

Last Scotrail train I saw was at Dalmuir in 2015, Saltires and St
Andrew's blue. No slogans

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 08:47:30 +0000, Graeme Wall
<rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>On 11/02/2022 06:44, Charles Ellson wrote:
>> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 21:55:59 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 10/02/2022 17:29, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> They've rolled the arrows of indecision in the Union Jack:
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmowner/page/search?id=1122140&domain=1&app=0&mark=UK00003742053>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's a good find.
>>>>
>>>> We had a talk by the Patent Office as part of our introduction when I
>>>> became a civil servant. One of the things he pointed out to us that
>>>> trawling recent patent applications, trade marks, etc often most
>>>> revealing and he didn't understand why journalists didn't do so.
>>>>
>>>> I don't like them but I guess I shouldn't be very surprised.
>>>>
>>>
>>> How long, I wonder, before the SNP demands that different colours be used
>>> in Scotland?
>>>
>> No demand needed, ScotRail is due for nationalisation by the Scottish
>> Government:-
>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-56432919
>
>So we need a new logo for Little England Railways.
>
Or an old one that is already in the same colours (presuming a white
background) as the English flag?

On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 14:24:05 +0000, Recliner
<recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 06:44:27 +0000, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 21:55:59 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>><recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>><martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 10/02/2022 17:29, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> They've rolled the arrows of indecision in the Union Jack:
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmowner/page/search?id=1122140&domain=1&app=0&mark=UK00003742053>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's a good find.
>>>>
>>>> We had a talk by the Patent Office as part of our introduction when I
>>>> became a civil servant. One of the things he pointed out to us that
>>>> trawling recent patent applications, trade marks, etc often most
>>>> revealing and he didn't understand why journalists didn't do so.
>>>>
>>>> I don't like them but I guess I shouldn't be very surprised.
>>>>
>>>
>>>How long, I wonder, before the SNP demands that different colours be used
>>>in Scotland?
>>>
>>No demand needed, ScotRail is due for nationalisation by the Scottish
>>Government:-
>>https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-56432919
>
>ScotRail doesn't own the tracks.
>
Neither do any other TOCs.

On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 18:58:44 +0000, Graeme Wall
<rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>On 11/02/2022 18:22, Arthur Figgis wrote:
>> On 10/02/2022 22:10, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>> On 10/02/2022 21:48, Recliner wrote:
>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 10/02/2022 17:29, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>> They've rolled the arrows of indecision in the Union Jack:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmowner/page/search?id=1122140&domain=1&app=0&mark=UK00003742053>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Patriotism, the last refuge of the Scoundrel.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It reminded me of how ministers, including Shapps, always try to
>>>> appear in
>>>> front of it.
>>>>
>>>
>>> All part of the Trump Tribute Act.
>>
>> Seen a ScotRail train? Flag livery and a "local railway for local
>> people" slogan.
>>
>>
>
>Last Scotrail train I saw was at Dalmuir in 2015, Saltires and St
>Andrew's blue. No slogans
>
The usual small print is "Scotland's Railway" below the main ScotRail
logo but that slogan is not exclusive to ScotRail.
https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-regions/scotland/

Other sub-titles/slogans have been used:-
https://www.flickr.com/photos/stevenage91/28684446427
https://www.railadvent.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/MDE-ScotRail-Halloween.jpg
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/14265/production/_98633528_poppytrain_2.jpg

Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 18:58:44 +0000, Graeme Wall
> <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 11/02/2022 18:22, Arthur Figgis wrote:
>>> On 10/02/2022 22:10, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>> On 10/02/2022 21:48, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/02/2022 17:29, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>> They've rolled the arrows of indecision in the Union Jack:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmowner/page/search?id=1122140&domain=1&app=0&mark=UK00003742053>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Patriotism, the last refuge of the Scoundrel.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It reminded me of how ministers, including Shapps, always try to
>>>>> appear in
>>>>> front of it.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> All part of the Trump Tribute Act.
>>>
>>> Seen a ScotRail train? Flag livery and a "local railway for local
>>> people" slogan.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Last Scotrail train I saw was at Dalmuir in 2015, Saltires and St
>> Andrew's blue. No slogans
>>
> The usual small print is "Scotland's Railway" below the main ScotRail
> logo but that slogan is not exclusive to ScotRail.
> https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-regions/scotland/
>
> Other sub-titles/slogans have been used:-
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/stevenage91/28684446427
> [snip]

That’s just bilingual signage, of course.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 14:24:05 +0000, Recliner
> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 06:44:27 +0000, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 21:55:59 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 10/02/2022 17:29, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>> They've rolled the arrows of indecision in the Union Jack:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmowner/page/search?id=1122140&domain=1&app=0&mark=UK00003742053>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That's a good find.
>>>>>
>>>>> We had a talk by the Patent Office as part of our introduction when I
>>>>> became a civil servant. One of the things he pointed out to us that
>>>>> trawling recent patent applications, trade marks, etc often most
>>>>> revealing and he didn't understand why journalists didn't do so.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't like them but I guess I shouldn't be very surprised.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How long, I wonder, before the SNP demands that different colours be used
>>>> in Scotland?
>>>>
>>> No demand needed, ScotRail is due for nationalisation by the Scottish
>>> Government:-
>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-56432919
>>
>> ScotRail doesn't own the tracks.
>>
> Neither do any other TOCs.
>

And none of the TOCs choose the GBR logo.

On 11/02/2022 22:11, Sam Wilson wrote:
> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 18:58:44 +0000, Graeme Wall
>> <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/02/2022 18:22, Arthur Figgis wrote:
>>>> On 10/02/2022 22:10, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>> On 10/02/2022 21:48, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 10/02/2022 17:29, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>> They've rolled the arrows of indecision in the Union Jack:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmowner/page/search?id=1122140&domain=1&app=0&mark=UK00003742053>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Patriotism, the last refuge of the Scoundrel.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It reminded me of how ministers, including Shapps, always try to
>>>>>> appear in
>>>>>> front of it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> All part of the Trump Tribute Act.
>>>>
>>>> Seen a ScotRail train? Flag livery and a "local railway for local
>>>> people" slogan.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Last Scotrail train I saw was at Dalmuir in 2015, Saltires and St
>>> Andrew's blue. No slogans
>>>
>> The usual small print is "Scotland's Railway" below the main ScotRail
>> logo but that slogan is not exclusive to ScotRail.
>> https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-regions/scotland/
>>
>> Other sub-titles/slogans have been used:-
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/stevenage91/28684446427
>> [snip]
>
> That’s just bilingual signage, of course.
>
> Sam
>
I'm under the impression that Gaelic is not an easy language to learn.

On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 00:37:29 +0000, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk"
<hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>On 11/02/2022 22:11, Sam Wilson wrote:
>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 18:58:44 +0000, Graeme Wall
>>> <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 11/02/2022 18:22, Arthur Figgis wrote:
>>>>> On 10/02/2022 22:10, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/02/2022 21:48, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 10/02/2022 17:29, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>> They've rolled the arrows of indecision in the Union Jack:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmowner/page/search?id=1122140&domain=1&app=0&mark=UK00003742053>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Patriotism, the last refuge of the Scoundrel.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It reminded me of how ministers, including Shapps, always try to
>>>>>>> appear in
>>>>>>> front of it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All part of the Trump Tribute Act.
>>>>>
>>>>> Seen a ScotRail train? Flag livery and a "local railway for local
>>>>> people" slogan.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Last Scotrail train I saw was at Dalmuir in 2015, Saltires and St
>>>> Andrew's blue. No slogans
>>>>
>>> The usual small print is "Scotland's Railway" below the main ScotRail
>>> logo but that slogan is not exclusive to ScotRail.
>>> https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-regions/scotland/
>>>
>>> Other sub-titles/slogans have been used:-
>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/stevenage91/28684446427
>>> [snip]
>>
>> That’s just bilingual signage, of course.
>>
>> Sam
>>
>I'm under the impression that Gaelic is not an easy language to learn.
>
Like many other languages, it is more consistent than English in the
Scots and Irish versions; Manx Gaelic uses what is effectively English
phonetic spellings which causes some inconsistency in the written
form. There are slightly fewer letters in the Gaelic alphabet but
vowels are varied with accents.

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> They've rolled the arrows of indecision in the Union Jack:
>
> <https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmowner/page/search?id=1122140&domain=1&app=0&mark=UK00003742053>
>
>
>

Tim Dunn points out an interesting side-fact about this:

<https://twitter.com/mrtimdunn/status/1492146146181103621?s=21>

"You may have opinions on the new "GBR" logo. BUT! More importantly:
someone, cleverly, has played a blinder. After years of misuse, SOMEONE on
the inside has FINALLY reasserted Gerry Barney's original 1965 BR logo with
its correct proportions: it’ll be enshrined in law. Well played!"

(Recently several versions of the logo with incorrect proportions have been
used on station signs etc.)

<https://twitter.com/mrtimdunn/status/1492150423930736644?s=21>

"Whoever you are, you are a hero. The blue bits will prob be revised out in
years to come; til then you have saved one of the greatest C20 icons of
design from a terrible fate."

<https://twitter.com/mrtimdunn/status/1492321954279399425?s=21>

"(for the avoidance of doubt: I am speaking here about the red bits, not
the blue bits. Ignore the blue. Design enthusiasts will recall many
horrific deformations of the core BR logo by various rail orgs recently.
Someone has fixed the proportions! The BR logo is back. Officially)"

Meanwhile as Graeme noticed in another thread, several people have noticed
that this is simply a little-used version of the BR logo originally created
in the 1960s, with the area of blue made wider!

<https://twitter.com/danbarker/status/1491781394875310094?s=21>

Anna Noyd-Dryver

<

In message <fokd0hlf7cc120tdd72hbf7rf2sof8qmou@4ax.com>, at 21:24:32 on
Fri, 11 Feb 2022, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
remarked:
>On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 14:24:05 +0000, Recliner
><recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 06:44:27 +0000, Charles Ellson
>><charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 21:55:59 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>><recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>><martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 10/02/2022 17:29, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>> They've rolled the arrows of indecision in the Union Jack:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>><https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmowner/page/search?id=1122140&d
>>>>>>omain=1&app=0&mark=UK00003742053>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That's a good find.
>>>>>
>>>>> We had a talk by the Patent Office as part of our introduction when I
>>>>> became a civil servant. One of the things he pointed out to us that
>>>>> trawling recent patent applications, trade marks, etc often most
>>>>> revealing and he didn't understand why journalists didn't do so.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't like them but I guess I shouldn't be very surprised.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>How long, I wonder, before the SNP demands that different colours be used
>>>>in Scotland?
>>>>
>>>No demand needed, ScotRail is due for nationalisation by the Scottish
>>>Government:-
>>>https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-56432919
>>
>>ScotRail doesn't own the tracks.
>>
>Neither do any other TOCs.

Apart from HEx and the Heathrow branch. NRE thinks London Underground is
a TOC, too.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <fokd0hlf7cc120tdd72hbf7rf2sof8qmou@4ax.com>, at 21:24:32 on
> Fri, 11 Feb 2022, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
> remarked:
>> On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 14:24:05 +0000, Recliner
>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 06:44:27 +0000, Charles Ellson
>>> <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 21:55:59 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/02/2022 17:29, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>> They've rolled the arrows of indecision in the Union Jack:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmowner/page/search?id=1122140&d
>>>>>>> omain=1&app=0&mark=UK00003742053>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's a good find.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We had a talk by the Patent Office as part of our introduction when I
>>>>>> became a civil servant. One of the things he pointed out to us that
>>>>>> trawling recent patent applications, trade marks, etc often most
>>>>>> revealing and he didn't understand why journalists didn't do so.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't like them but I guess I shouldn't be very surprised.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> How long, I wonder, before the SNP demands that different colours be used
>>>>> in Scotland?
>>>>>
>>>> No demand needed, ScotRail is due for nationalisation by the Scottish
>>>> Government:-
>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-56432919
>>>
>>> ScotRail doesn't own the tracks.
>>>
>> Neither do any other TOCs.
>
> Apart from HEx and the Heathrow branch. NRE thinks London Underground is
> a TOC, too.

HEx is operated by GWR these days, so even there the TOC doesn’t own the
track.

In message <su7o7o$77q$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:39:36 on Sat, 12 Feb
2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <fokd0hlf7cc120tdd72hbf7rf2sof8qmou@4ax.com>, at 21:24:32 on
>> Fri, 11 Feb 2022, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>> remarked:
>>> On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 14:24:05 +0000, Recliner
>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 06:44:27 +0000, Charles Ellson
>>>> <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 21:55:59 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 10/02/2022 17:29, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>> They've rolled the arrows of indecision in the Union Jack:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmowner/page/search?id=1122140&d
>>>>>>>> omain=1&app=0&mark=UK00003742053>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's a good find.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We had a talk by the Patent Office as part of our introduction when I
>>>>>>> became a civil servant. One of the things he pointed out to us that
>>>>>>> trawling recent patent applications, trade marks, etc often most
>>>>>>> revealing and he didn't understand why journalists didn't do so.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't like them but I guess I shouldn't be very surprised.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How long, I wonder, before the SNP demands that different colours be used
>>>>>> in Scotland?
>>>>>>
>>>>> No demand needed, ScotRail is due for nationalisation by the Scottish
>>>>> Government:-
>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-56432919
>>>>
>>>> ScotRail doesn't own the tracks.
>>>>
>>> Neither do any other TOCs.
>>
>> Apart from HEx and the Heathrow branch. NRE thinks London Underground is
>> a TOC, too.
>
>HEx is operated by GWR these days, so even there the TOC doesn’t own the
>track.

Send a memo to NRE to get HEx taken off their list of TOCs then?

Although I think you are looking at the wrong layer, because London
Overground is also listed, and we know that's outsourced too.

--
Roland Perry