So it’s official. When the Elizabeth Line opens for full through-London
service [whenever that might be] Bond Street station will not, since its
completion is lagging behind the rest of London’s new railway.

Crossrail says – if I understand it right – that the delays and huge cost
over-runs have their origins in long delays to “tunnelling" works, which at
one point were more than a year behind schedule.

The situation worsened with the Covid pandemic, which led to the ousting of
the main contractor, a Skanska-Costain JV; the work was then taken in house.
SCJV was paid, from memory, £15million to pack up and hand over.

But what I don’t understand, and I suspect I’m not alone in this, is what
caused the original delays. If the tunnelling was behind schedule, WHY?

And WHAT tunnelling? The main running tunnels are entirely separate in
contract terms from the station works, so does it mean the internal tunnels
within the station?

Were the issues to do with the initial planning, the underground conditions,
equipment, organisation or ??? Who knows? A lot of the media coverage focuses
on the financials, with the implied message that the over-runs are somehow
failures on the part of TfL / Crossrail management. Maybe there’s some
truth in that, but I suspect the real story is much more complex.

For anyone not familiar with London’s rail geography, Bond Street station
lies at the heart of one of Europe’s leading shopping areas, close to three
of the country’s largest stores; it is currently served by the Central and
Victoria lines, and so will also provide an important interchange for
cross-London services.

Ken W

On 11/02/2022 09:31, Easily wrote:
>
> So it’s official. When the Elizabeth Line opens for full through-London
> service [whenever that might be] Bond Street station will not, since its
> completion is lagging behind the rest of London’s new railway.
>

It's been "official" for quite a while.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

In message <0001HW.27B6648D0055E1697000064CC38F@news.newshosting.com>,
at 10:31:57 on Fri, 11 Feb 2022, Easily <Easy@nomail.com> remarked:
>For anyone not familiar with London’s rail geography, Bond Street station
>lies at the heart of one of Europe’s leading shopping areas, close to three
>of the country’s largest stores;

Isn't at least one of those closed?

<https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/nov/17/house-of-fraser-to-
close-london-flagship-store-in-january-oxford-street>

Incl: "The changes mark the latest shift away from retail on Oxford
Street after Marks & Spencer and John Lewis said they would seek
planning permission to turn part of their retail outlets into
offices."
--
Roland Perry

Easily <Easy@nomail.com> wrote:
>
> So it’s official. When the Elizabeth Line opens for full through-London
> service [whenever that might be]

The central section of the line is due to open shortly, with Abbey
Wood-Paddington services, but full through-running won't be till next year.

> Bond Street station will not, since its
> completion is lagging behind the rest of London’s new railway.

Actually, depending on the opening date, Bond Street may be ready to open
with the line. The station was 'decoupled' from the rest of the project,
but in order for the line to open, it had to be sufficiently complete that
it could be used for evacuations and emergency services access. That was
achieved a few weeks ago, so there isn't much left to complete.
Potentially, it could open with only one of the two entrances, but that's
not ideal.

So, my guess is that Bond St will be ready by June. If the line opens
before then, Bond St won't open with it, but if in June, it could well open
with the other stations.

>
> Crossrail says – if I understand it right – that the delays and huge cost
> over-runs have their origins in long delays to “tunnelling" works, which at
> one point were more than a year behind schedule.

The line's opening will be much more than a year late.

>
> The situation worsened with the Covid pandemic, which led to the ousting of
> the main contractor, a Skanska-Costain JV; the work was then taken in house.
> SCJV was paid, from memory, £15million to pack up and hand over.
>
> But what I don’t understand, and I suspect I’m not alone in this, is what
> caused the original delays. If the tunnelling was behind schedule, WHY?
>
> And WHAT tunnelling? The main running tunnels are entirely separate in
> contract terms from the station works, so does it mean the internal tunnels
> within the station?

These large underground stations have lots of large, hand-made tunnels for
the platforms, cross passages, concourses, escalators, etc. They're
difficult and dangerous to construct, and require very skilled labour. It's
not something you can automate.

>
> Were the issues to do with the initial planning, the underground conditions,
> equipment, organisation or ??? Who knows? A lot of the media coverage focuses
> on the financials, with the implied message that the over-runs are somehow
> failures on the part of TfL / Crossrail management.

Bond St station isn't the only part of the project that is late and
over-budget.

> Maybe there’s some
> truth in that, but I suspect the real story is much more complex.

For sure.

>
> For anyone not familiar with London’s rail geography, Bond Street station
> lies at the heart of one of Europe’s leading shopping areas, close to three
> of the country’s largest stores; it is currently served by the Central and
> Victoria lines, and so will also provide an important interchange for
> cross-London services.
>

It's served by the Jubilee line, not the Victoria line, as was mentioned
many times in the other recent Crossrail thread.

On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 10:55:04 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <0001HW.27B6648D0055E1697000064CC38F@news.newshosting.com>,
>at 10:31:57 on Fri, 11 Feb 2022, Easily <Easy@nomail.com> remarked:
>>For anyone not familiar with London’s rail geography, Bond Street station
>>lies at the heart of one of Europe’s leading shopping areas, close to three
>>of the country’s largest stores;
>
>Isn't at least one of those closed?
>
> <https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/nov/17/house-of-fraser-to-
>close-london-flagship-store-in-january-oxford-street>
>
>Incl: "The changes mark the latest shift away from retail on Oxford
> Street after Marks & Spencer and John Lewis said they would seek
> planning permission to turn part of their retail outlets into
> offices."

Of course, offices and hotels also need public transport links.

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 10:55:04 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> In message <0001HW.27B6648D0055E1697000064CC38F@news.newshosting.com>,
>> at 10:31:57 on Fri, 11 Feb 2022, Easily <Easy@nomail.com> remarked:
>>> For anyone not familiar with London’s rail geography, Bond Street station
>>> lies at the heart of one of Europe’s leading shopping areas, close to three
>>> of the country’s largest stores;
>>
>> Isn't at least one of those closed?
>>
>> <https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/nov/17/house-of-fraser-to-
>> close-london-flagship-store-in-january-oxford-street>
>>
>> Incl: "The changes mark the latest shift away from retail on Oxford
>> Street after Marks & Spencer and John Lewis said they would seek
>> planning permission to turn part of their retail outlets into
>> offices."
>
> Of course, offices and hotels also need public transport links.
>

Oxford Street seems to be in steep decline as a quality shopping
destination. But pre covid it was still packed with tourists and doubtless
will be again. There’s also lots of office/meeting establishments near by,
eg Royal College of Nursing, Royal Society of Medicine, Harley Street and
of course the BBC is just up the road.

In message <1trc0h9p081ou55af3i622ir9r40thdhjq@4ax.com>, at 14:16:29 on
Fri, 11 Feb 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 10:55:04 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>In message <0001HW.27B6648D0055E1697000064CC38F@news.newshosting.com>,
>>at 10:31:57 on Fri, 11 Feb 2022, Easily <Easy@nomail.com> remarked:
>>>For anyone not familiar with London’s rail geography, Bond Street station
>>>lies at the heart of one of Europe’s leading shopping areas, close to three
>>>of the country’s largest stores;
>>
>>Isn't at least one of those closed?
>>
>> <https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/nov/17/house-of-fraser-to-
>>close-london-flagship-store-in-january-oxford-street>
>>
>>Incl: "The changes mark the latest shift away from retail on Oxford
>> Street after Marks & Spencer and John Lewis said they would seek
>> planning permission to turn part of their retail outlets into
>> offices."
>
>Of course, offices and hotels also need public transport links.

But only for a very limited number of patrons, often in quite short
windows.
--
Roland Perry

On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 15:02:32 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <1trc0h9p081ou55af3i622ir9r40thdhjq@4ax.com>, at 14:16:29 on
>Fri, 11 Feb 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 10:55:04 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>In message <0001HW.27B6648D0055E1697000064CC38F@news.newshosting.com>,
>>>at 10:31:57 on Fri, 11 Feb 2022, Easily <Easy@nomail.com> remarked:
>>>>For anyone not familiar with London’s rail geography, Bond Street station
>>>>lies at the heart of one of Europe’s leading shopping areas, close to three
>>>>of the country’s largest stores;
>>>
>>>Isn't at least one of those closed?
>>>
>>> <https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/nov/17/house-of-fraser-to-
>>>close-london-flagship-store-in-january-oxford-street>
>>>
>>>Incl: "The changes mark the latest shift away from retail on Oxford
>>> Street after Marks & Spencer and John Lewis said they would seek
>>> planning permission to turn part of their retail outlets into
>>> offices."
>>
>>Of course, offices and hotels also need public transport links.
>
>But only for a very limited number of patrons, often in quite short
>windows.

Sure, definitely not as many as a busy retailer. I've not been into a big department store in years, but my impression
was that the upper floors didn't see much traffic.

In message <511d0hhr5ca3tllq6ob9bgcil5t3n6ks1v@4ax.com>, at 15:44:50 on
Fri, 11 Feb 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 15:02:32 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>In message <1trc0h9p081ou55af3i622ir9r40thdhjq@4ax.com>, at 14:16:29 on
>>Fri, 11 Feb 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 10:55:04 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>In message <0001HW.27B6648D0055E1697000064CC38F@news.newshosting.com>,
>>>>at 10:31:57 on Fri, 11 Feb 2022, Easily <Easy@nomail.com> remarked:
>>>>>For anyone not familiar with London’s rail geography, Bond Street station
>>>>>lies at the heart of one of Europe’s leading shopping areas, close to three
>>>>>of the country’s largest stores;
>>>>
>>>>Isn't at least one of those closed?
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/nov/17/house-of-fraser-to-
>>>>close-london-flagship-store-in-january-oxford-street>
>>>>
>>>>Incl: "The changes mark the latest shift away from retail on Oxford
>>>> Street after Marks & Spencer and John Lewis said they would seek
>>>> planning permission to turn part of their retail outlets into
>>>> offices."
>>>
>>>Of course, offices and hotels also need public transport links.
>>
>>But only for a very limited number of patrons, often in quite short
>>windows.
>
>Sure, definitely not as many as a busy retailer. I've not been into a
>big department store in years, but my impression was that the upper
>floors didn't see much traffic.

They arrange them so that the more impulse purchases are at ground
level, and the ones people have made a special journey to buy (maybe new
curtains) are higher up. Then you adjust the markup so it's still worth
selling curtains, despite people having to go up three floors to find
them.
--
Roland Perry

On 13/02/2022 01:00, Nobody wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 16:53:22 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> In message <511d0hhr5ca3tllq6ob9bgcil5t3n6ks1v@4ax.com>, at 15:44:50 on
>> Fri, 11 Feb 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Sure, definitely not as many as a busy retailer. I've not been into a
>>> big department store in years, but my impression was that the upper
>>> floors didn't see much traffic.
>>
>> They arrange them so that the more impulse purchases are at ground
>> level, and the ones people have made a special journey to buy (maybe new
>> curtains) are higher up. Then you adjust the markup so it's still worth
>> selling curtains, despite people having to go up three floors to find
>> them.
>
> <mumble> <mumble> Menswear at Hudson's Bay in Downtown Vancouver is
> on the fifth of six floors... and the sixth I fink is Exec Offices.
>
> Once upon a time, men's unmentionables were in the sub-basement... *Y*
> I do not know, only Jockey and Marks & Sparks likely hold the goods on
> that.
>
> Not only that, the down escalator from fifth to fourth has been MIA
> for a couple of years.
>
> Rumour is, the whole store is up for re-development.

Most menswear departments are at the far end of the basement, between
the cleaners' cupboard and the staff toilet.