While watching the Nadal / Djokovic semi-final
yesterday on Freeview, it seemed that the ball sometimes
moved too quickly for the digitsl encoding to cope.

We'd see the ball in motion, then not, and then back in view.

AIUI, there is some motion compensation in thr frame
sequence.

On 12/06/2021 in message <sa39vq$pa2$1@dont-email.me> gareth evans wrote:

>While watching the Nadal / Djokovic semi-final
>yesterday on Freeview, it seemed that the ball sometimes
>moved too quickly for the digitsl encoding to cope.
>
>We'd see the ball in motion, then not, and then back in view.

That was Nadal's excuse as well :-)

--
Jeff Gaines Wiltshire UK
640k ought to be enough for anyone.
(Bill Gates, 1981)

Funnily enough many moons ago when I could see, I tried to make some of my
old 8mm films into video using a colour vidicon camera, a projector and
mirror and a fresnel screen. At some speeds fast moving objects just
vanished and reappeared when they slowed down. This was analogue, you could
get the same effect just panning the camera too fast, so details just went
away momentarily, the verticals more so than the rest for obvious reasons.
Its amusing to me to think that even with all this fancy digital stuff, we
have managed to recreate the effect of an el cheapo video camera from the
1970s. grin
Brian

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"gareth evans" <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:sa39vq$pa2$1@dont-email.me...
> While watching the Nadal / Djokovic semi-final
> yesterday on Freeview, it seemed that the ball sometimes
> moved too quickly for the digitsl encoding to cope.
>
> We'd see the ball in motion, then not, and then back in view.
>
> AIUI, there is some motion compensation in thr frame
> sequence.
>

On Sun, 13 Jun 2021 08:57:44 +0100
"Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Its amusing to me to think that even with all this fancy digital stuff, we
>have managed to recreate the effect of an el cheapo video camera from the
>1970s. grin

Thats why whenever you see fancy in store HD demos on TVs they're almost
always slow moving landscapes where nothing much happens with no fast moving
objects. Put a footy game on them or even better a rough sea and people would
think twice about buying the set after seeing all the artifacts.

On 13/06/2021 09:42, MrSpook_3re9lpr3@4ng0lijmcal3en7.edu wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Jun 2021 08:57:44 +0100
> "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>> Its amusing to me to think that even with all this fancy digital stuff, we
>> have managed to recreate the effect of an el cheapo video camera from the
>> 1970s. grin
>
> Thats why whenever you see fancy in store HD demos on TVs they're almost
> always slow moving landscapes where nothing much happens with no fast moving
> objects. Put a footy game on them or even better a rough sea and people would
> think twice about buying the set after seeing all the artifacts.

Yes, but the artefacts are usually produced by over-compression, not the
TVs themselves.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On 12/06/2021 22:46, gareth evans wrote:
> While watching the Nadal / Djokovic semi-final
> yesterday on Freeview, it seemed that the ball sometimes
> moved too quickly for the digitsl encoding to cope.
>
> We'd see the ball in motion, then not, and then back in view.
>
> AIUI, there is some motion compensation in thr frame
> sequence.
>

Was it in HD or SD?

SD on Freeview is always pretty badly over compressed.
Satellite is a little better on some of the channels.

--
Brian Gregory (in England).

On 13/06/2021 20:21, Brian Gregory wrote:
> On 12/06/2021 22:46, gareth evans wrote:
>> While watching the Nadal / Djokovic semi-final
>> yesterday on Freeview, it seemed that the ball sometimes
>> moved too quickly for the digitsl encoding to cope.
>>
>> We'd see the ball in motion, then not, and then back in view.
>>
>> AIUI, there is some motion compensation in thr frame
>> sequence.
>>
>
> Was it in HD or SD?
>
> SD on Freeview is always pretty badly over compressed.
> Satellite is a little better on some of the channels.
>

It was ITV4 on channel 25, so presumably SD

On 12/06/2021 22:46, gareth evans wrote:
> While watching the Nadal / Djokovic semi-final
> yesterday on Freeview, it seemed that the ball sometimes
> moved too quickly for the digitsl encoding to cope.
>
> We'd see the ball in motion, then not, and then back in view.
>
> AIUI, there is some motion compensation in thr frame
> sequence.

I watched a few minutes of the England - Croatia match today on 1, 101,
and UHD. The UHD picture was very good indeed to my eyes, with no motion
artefacts at all.

--

Jeff

I'm also waiting for the latest buzz phrase to end up with somebody trying
to watch their tv underwater.
What exactly is immersive sound?

Brian

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<MrSpook_3re9lpr3@4ng0lijmcal3en7.edu> wrote in message
news:sa4gd0$afg$1@gioia.aioe.org...
> On Sun, 13 Jun 2021 08:57:44 +0100
> "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>> Its amusing to me to think that even with all this fancy digital stuff,
>> we
>>have managed to recreate the effect of an el cheapo video camera from the
>>1970s. grin
>
> Thats why whenever you see fancy in store HD demos on TVs they're almost
> always slow moving landscapes where nothing much happens with no fast
> moving
> objects. Put a footy game on them or even better a rough sea and people
> would
> think twice about buying the set after seeing all the artifacts.
>

Yes of course they are. As I used to point out on audio. lossy compression
will only work up to a point. Shove something like whit noise into it and
you can hear the swizzling noises as it drops data cyclically to keep up. On
TV cramming as many channels into the space of one tv channel has to result
in compression, since if every channel tried to send random noise to the
screen it would very soon run out of bandwidth in the multiplex.
DAB certainly has this problem, so they just reduce the bit rate and make
everything sound slightly naff instead of all of it dropping ot!
Boiling mud is also still present on the dab plus, so noise is also a
factor in the mix.
Brian

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"Java Jive" <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:sa4qgo$ajc$1@gioia.aioe.org...
> On 13/06/2021 09:42, MrSpook_3re9lpr3@4ng0lijmcal3en7.edu wrote:
>> On Sun, 13 Jun 2021 08:57:44 +0100
>> "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Its amusing to me to think that even with all this fancy digital stuff,
>>> we
>>> have managed to recreate the effect of an el cheapo video camera from
>>> the
>>> 1970s. grin
>>
>> Thats why whenever you see fancy in store HD demos on TVs they're almost
>> always slow moving landscapes where nothing much happens with no fast
>> moving
>> objects. Put a footy game on them or even better a rough sea and people
>> would
>> think twice about buying the set after seeing all the artifacts.
>
> Yes, but the artefacts are usually produced by over-compression, not the
> TVs themselves.
>
> --
>
> Fake news kills!
>
> I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
> www.macfh.co.uk

Does anyone remember the conversion from 525 to 625 60 to 50hz? I remember
most of those old Andy Williams shows had problems with fast moving things
and once I saw an American football match where the ball seemed to travel in
a series of uneven jerks across the screen. One other thing, Remember that
naff hit YMCA by Village people, that was so jerky the peoples white teeth
seemed to be kind of separately animated.
Obviously I've not been able to look recently, but do we still see other
picture artefacts like e the patterning on certain clothing or what ever, or
has that gone away with no colour subcarrier and CRT?
Brian

--

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"gareth evans" <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:sa5nbj$db5$1@dont-email.me...
> On 13/06/2021 20:21, Brian Gregory wrote:
>> On 12/06/2021 22:46, gareth evans wrote:
>>> While watching the Nadal / Djokovic semi-final
>>> yesterday on Freeview, it seemed that the ball sometimes
>>> moved too quickly for the digitsl encoding to cope.
>>>
>>> We'd see the ball in motion, then not, and then back in view.
>>>
>>> AIUI, there is some motion compensation in thr frame
>>> sequence.
>>>
>>
>> Was it in HD or SD?
>>
>> SD on Freeview is always pretty badly over compressed.
>> Satellite is a little better on some of the channels.
>>
>
> It was ITV4 on channel 25, so presumably SD
>

On 14/06/2021 08:10, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
> ... Remember that
> naff hit YMCA by Village people, ...

Naff??? Bloody brilliant!

Even went so far as to use google maps to
identify the filming location (By noting
the bar / club name in the background)
I was curious about the dilapidated industrial
landscape on the far side of the river but it
is now been redeveloped.

On Mon, 14 Jun 2021 08:03:27 +0100
"Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Boiling mud is also still present on the dab plus, so noise is also a
>factor in the mix.

IME when a DAB+ signal fades there's a slight reverb sound - sounds like the
receiver playing the last few milliseconds of sound on a loop as a stopgap
in case the signal comes back - then nothing. I've yet to hear bubbling mud
with DAB+.

In article <sa6vcb$2f6$1@dont-email.me>,
Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Does anyone remember the conversion from 525 to 625 60 to 50hz?

Yes, I used to maintain the kit.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 14/06/2021 09:23, charles wrote:
> In article <sa6vcb$2f6$1@dont-email.me>,
> Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>> Does anyone remember the conversion from 525 to 625 60 to 50hz?
>
> Yes, I used to maintain the kit.
>

GenLock?

In article <sa79ug$39r$1@dont-email.me>,
gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 14/06/2021 09:23, charles wrote:
> > In article <sa6vcb$2f6$1@dont-email.me>,
> > Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> >> Does anyone remember the conversion from 525 to 625 60 to 50hz?
> >
> > Yes, I used to maintain the kit.
> >

> GenLock?

that as well

Thinking about Brians' oder of conversion, the last stage was the line
conversion, frame rate came first.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 14/06/2021 11:28, charles wrote:
> In article <sa79ug$39r$1@dont-email.me>,
> gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On 14/06/2021 09:23, charles wrote:
>>> In article <sa6vcb$2f6$1@dont-email.me>,
>>> Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> Does anyone remember the conversion from 525 to 625 60 to 50hz?
>>>
>>> Yes, I used to maintain the kit.
>>>
>
>> GenLock?
>
> that as well
>
> Thinking about Brians' oder of conversion, the last stage was the line
> conversion, frame rate came first.
>

Sorry, was showing off there.

My elmer as an intending radio ham was Martin Allard G3WFC, G6AEM/T
and he used words such as GenLock and NatLock. Martin (RIP, Kenya, 2003)
had a claim to fame in that he did the original development work that
started off Snell & Wilcox in business.

On Saturday, 12 June 2021 at 22:46:37 UTC+1, gareth evans wrote:
> While watching the Nadal / Djokovic semi-final
> yesterday on Freeview, it seemed that the ball sometimes
> moved too quickly for the digitsl encoding to cope.
>
> We'd see the ball in motion, then not, and then back in view.
>
> AIUI, there is some motion compensation in thr frame
> sequence.
Check the settings in your TV, it could be excessive smoothing or similar.

On 14/06/2021 08:10, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:

> Obviously I've not been able to look recently, but do we still see other
> picture artefacts like e the patterning on certain clothing or what ever, or
> has that gone away with no colour subcarrier and CRT?

Amazingly, no it hasn't. Although not as common as it used to be,
cross-colour patterning still crops up from time to time.

I've been told that the BBC regions, or at least some of them, still
produce the main output in composite. Surely not?

--
rgds
LAurence
<><

Very funny, Scotty. Now beam down my clothes.
~~~ Random (signature) 1.6.1