I bet Elon has a diesel pickup with long-range tanks to
escape the apocalyse.

On 8/03/2023 1:02 pm, Nomen Nescio wrote:
> I bet Elon has a diesel pickup with long-range tanks to
> escape the apocalyse.
>

**I've been thinking about that. Let's say the zombie apocalypse
happens. No more refined oil. Petrol lasts about 1 year in a sealed
container. I am uncertain, but I guess Diesel will last a bit longer.
Maybe 2 years. A battery pack will last a lot longer. Prolly 20+ years.
A survivalist will be able to charge his Tesle via his Solar PV array,
whilst the fossil fueled vehicles become useless.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

On 8/03/2023 1:40 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 8/03/2023 1:02 pm, Nomen Nescio wrote:
>> I bet Elon has a diesel pickup with long-range tanks to
>> escape the apocalyse.
>>
>
> **I've been thinking about that. Let's say the zombie apocalypse
> happens. No more refined oil. Petrol lasts about 1 year in a sealed
> container.

Bit more than that. I've had petrol that's been stored for over 2 years
that's been fine. It lasts even longer if you use a fuel stabiliser.

I am uncertain, but I guess Diesel will last a bit longer.

Diesel storage is about the same as petrol.

> Maybe 2 years. A battery pack will last a lot longer. Prolly 20+ years.
> A survivalist will be able to charge his Tesle via his Solar PV array,
> whilst the fossil fueled vehicles become useless.

Lol :)

You live in a strange fantasy world. You can get far enough away from a
disaster on a jerry can of fuel regardless of whatever you happen to
drive, and refilling it to keep it fresh once a year isn't a big deal.
Use the old fuel in your mower and refill the container with fresh fuel
for your escape.

Assuming, of course, this kind of fantasy situation ever arises which is
highly unlikely :)

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 15:22:10 +1100, Noddy <me@home.com> wrote:

>On 8/03/2023 1:40 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 8/03/2023 1:02 pm, Nomen Nescio wrote:
>>> I bet Elon has a diesel pickup with long-range tanks to
>>> escape the apocalyse.
>>>
>>
>> **I've been thinking about that. Let's say the zombie apocalypse
>> happens. No more refined oil. Petrol lasts about 1 year in a sealed
>> container.
>
>Bit more than that. I've had petrol that's been stored for over 2 years
>that's been fine. It lasts even longer if you use a fuel stabiliser.
>
>I am uncertain, but I guess Diesel will last a bit longer.
>
>Diesel storage is about the same as petrol.
>
>> Maybe 2 years. A battery pack will last a lot longer. Prolly 20+ years.
>> A survivalist will be able to charge his Tesle via his Solar PV array,
>> whilst the fossil fueled vehicles become useless.
>
>Lol :)
>
>You live in a strange fantasy world. You can get far enough away from a
>disaster on a jerry can of fuel regardless of whatever you happen to
>drive, and refilling it to keep it fresh once a year isn't a big deal.
>Use the old fuel in your mower and refill the container with fresh fuel
>for your escape.
>
>Assuming, of course, this kind of fantasy situation ever arises which is
>highly unlikely :)

In the good old days we would experiment with an old 2-stroke motor
mower, feeding it with all sorts of mixes with petrol, like benzine
carbon tetrachloride, turps, old paint and sump oil.
The carbonTet mix gave a beautiful blue/green flame shooting from the
no-muffler exhaust, while the rest gave voluminous clouds of smoke
from blue to black.
Such fun!
Later during a transport strike we found a mix of lighter fuel & turps
would run a car, albeit erratically.

On 8/3/2023 1:40 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 8/03/2023 1:02 pm, Nomen Nescio wrote:
>> I bet Elon has a diesel pickup with long-range tanks to
>> escape the apocalyse.
>>
>
> **I've been thinking about that. Let's say the zombie apocalypse
> happens. No more refined oil. Petrol lasts about 1 year in a sealed
> container. I am uncertain, but I guess Diesel will last a bit longer.
> Maybe 2 years.

Depends on how its stored, diesel needs to be sealed without any air and
then it will last a very long time, I've also used petrol that was 5yrs
old without a problem but its variable.

A battery pack will last a lot longer. Prolly 20+ years.

A rather wild guess, batteries can last a long time if stored correctly
but 10yrs is a more realistic guess.

> A survivalist will be able to charge his Tesle via his Solar PV array,
> whilst the fossil fueled vehicles become useless.
>

Certainly possible to charge an EV from solar but EV's need lots and
lots of power so it could take a very long time to fully charge unless
you have a very big solar system.
The sort of portable solar panels that a survivalist could carry in a
vehicle would take weeks to charge an EV.

--
Daryl

On Wednesday, 8 March 2023 at 16:08:38 UTC+11, Daryl wrote:
> On 8/3/2023 1:40 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> > On 8/03/2023 1:02 pm, Nomen Nescio wrote:
> >> I bet Elon has a diesel pickup with long-range tanks to
> >> escape the apocalyse.
> >>
> >
> > **I've been thinking about that. Let's say the zombie apocalypse
> > happens. No more refined oil. Petrol lasts about 1 year in a sealed
> > container. I am uncertain, but I guess Diesel will last a bit longer.
> > Maybe 2 years.
> Depends on how its stored, diesel needs to be sealed without any air and
> then it will last a very long time, I've also used petrol that was 5yrs
> old without a problem but its variable.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We get a lot of mixed age petrol here from wrecks etc. Being the tight arse I am I use it in the Jeep in about a five to one mix. all good. :) As for diesel, since its now low sulfur I don`t reckon anything over a couple of years (prolly less) old would be worth the trouble, (unless from a *sealed* container!.)

> A battery pack will last a lot longer. Prolly 20+ years.
> A rather wild guess, batteries can last a long time if stored correctly
> but 10yrs is a more realistic guess.
> > A survivalist will be able to charge his Tesle via his Solar PV array,
> > whilst the fossil fueled vehicles become useless.
> >
> Certainly possible to charge an EV from solar but EV's need lots and
> lots of power so it could take a very long time to fully charge unless
> you have a very big solar system.
> The sort of portable solar panels that a survivalist could carry in a
> vehicle would take weeks to charge an EV.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Yep.
>
>
> --
> Daryl

On 8/3/2023 3:22 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 8/03/2023 1:40 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 8/03/2023 1:02 pm, Nomen Nescio wrote:
>>> I bet Elon has a diesel pickup with long-range tanks to
>>> escape the apocalyse.
>>>
>>
>> **I've been thinking about that. Let's say the zombie apocalypse
>> happens. No more refined oil. Petrol lasts about 1 year in a sealed
>> container.
>
> Bit more than that. I've had petrol that's been stored for over 2 years
> that's been fine. It lasts even longer if you use a fuel stabiliser.

Petrol storage is temperature dependent. If the tin shed you store it in
regularly gets up to 30C or more, expect your fuel to go off in as
little as three months. Worse if it's been adulterated with *ethanol*.
Then you will *experience* the joys of phase separation.
>
> I am uncertain, but I guess Diesel will last a bit longer.

Of course you are, and you'd be wrong. Diesel will go off in 12 months
on average, same as petrol. Because diesel is a less volatile fuel, it
won't go off because of evaporation of the volatile components like
petrol does. Instead it tends to grow bacteria.

https://www.agro.crs/fuel/detail/prevent-microbial-growth-in-fuel-tanks

>
> Diesel storage is about the same as petrol.

In a properly sealed container - about 12 months - for both. But, hang
about, didn't you say in your ignorance that diesel will last a bit
longer? Ah, the joys of watching you contradict yourself.
>
>> Maybe 2 years. A battery pack will last a lot longer. Prolly 20+
>> years. A survivalist will be able to charge his Tesle via his Solar PV
>> array, whilst the fossil fueled vehicles become useless.
>
> Lol :)
>
> You live in a strange fantasy world. You can get far enough away from a
> disaster on a jerry can of fuel regardless of whatever you happen to
> drive, and refilling it to keep it fresh once a year isn't a big deal.
> Use the old fuel in your mower and refill the container with fresh fuel
> for your escape.
>
> Assuming, of course, this kind of fantasy situation ever arises which is
> highly unlikely :)
>
Been looking at what's been going on around the world lately? Obviously
not. Remember where pretty much most of our fuel comes from - hint, not
more than 22% from local sources. The other 78% comes from other places
in the world. Any disruption to *crude oil shipping* and your fantasy
situation has an extremely high likelihood of occurring.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 8/3/2023 5:11 pm, jonz@ nothere.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, 8 March 2023 at 16:08:38 UTC+11, Daryl wrote:
>> On 8/3/2023 1:40 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 8/03/2023 1:02 pm, Nomen Nescio wrote:
>>>> I bet Elon has a diesel pickup with long-range tanks to
>>>> escape the apocalyse.
>>>>
>>>
>>> **I've been thinking about that. Let's say the zombie apocalypse
>>> happens. No more refined oil. Petrol lasts about 1 year in a sealed
>>> container. I am uncertain, but I guess Diesel will last a bit longer.
>>> Maybe 2 years.
>> Depends on how its stored, diesel needs to be sealed without any air and
>> then it will last a very long time, I've also used petrol that was 5yrs
>> old without a problem but its variable.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> We get a lot of mixed age petrol here from wrecks etc. Being the tight arse I am I use it in the Jeep in about a five to one mix. all good. :) As for diesel, since its now low sulfur I don`t reckon anything over a couple of years (prolly less) old would be worth the trouble, (unless from a *sealed* container!.)

Worst petrol I've seen was about 15yrs old from a wrecked Diahatsu
Charade my son bought for the engine, 2005 model that was badly rear
ended when it was fairly new and had been sitting in the owners backyard
ever since, I removed the fuel tank to access the fuel pump and the
smell was that bad I almost threw up, fuel pump was seized.
Oddly though I rigged up a fuel pump externally and used the bit of the
old fuel (didn't have any other petrol) that I filtered through a rag
and the engine fired right up and ran well, amazingly even the AC worked.

--
Daryl

In aus.science Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote:
>
> Certainly possible to charge an EV from solar but EV's need lots and
> lots of power so it could take a very long time to fully charge unless
> you have a very big solar system.
> The sort of portable solar panels that a survivalist could carry in a
> vehicle would take weeks to charge an EV.

Musk can steal a nuclear electricity generator from a space mission
that his SpaceX company was commissioned to launch prior to the
apocalypse, strap it to the back of his EV, and drive on forever.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

On 8/03/2023 3:22 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 8/03/2023 1:40 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 8/03/2023 1:02 pm, Nomen Nescio wrote:
>>> I bet Elon has a diesel pickup with long-range tanks to
>>> escape the apocalyse.
>>>
>>
>> **I've been thinking about that. Let's say the zombie apocalypse
>> happens. No more refined oil. Petrol lasts about 1 year in a sealed
>> container.
>
> Bit more than that. I've had petrol that's been stored for over 2 years
> that's been fine. It lasts even longer if you use a fuel stabiliser.
>
> I am uncertain, but I guess Diesel will last a bit longer.
>
> Diesel storage is about the same as petrol.
>
>> Maybe 2 years. A battery pack will last a lot longer. Prolly 20+
>> years. A survivalist will be able to charge his Tesle via his Solar PV
>> array, whilst the fossil fueled vehicles become useless.
>
> Lol :)
>
> You live in a strange fantasy world. You can get far enough away from a
> disaster on a jerry can of fuel regardless of whatever you happen to
> drive, and refilling it to keep it fresh once a year isn't a big deal.
> Use the old fuel in your mower and refill the container with fresh fuel
> for your escape.
>
> Assuming, of course, this kind of fantasy situation ever arises which is
> highly unlikely :)
>
>

**You could substitute 'zombie apocalypse' for a Chinese blockade of sea
freight to and from Australia. When/if that occurs, EV owners will be
the only vehicles travelling anywhere.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

On 9/03/2023 7:50 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 8/03/2023 3:22 pm, Noddy wrote:

>>
>> You live in a strange fantasy world. You can get far enough away from
>> a disaster on a jerry can of fuel regardless of whatever you happen to
>> drive, and refilling it to keep it fresh once a year isn't a big deal.
>> Use the old fuel in your mower and refill the container with fresh
>> fuel for your escape.
>>
>> Assuming, of course, this kind of fantasy situation ever arises which
>> is highly unlikely :)
>>
>>
>
> **You could substitute 'zombie apocalypse' for a Chinese blockade of sea
> freight to and from Australia. When/if that occurs, EV owners will be
> the only vehicles travelling anywhere.

I doubt it.

We still produce oil in this country, and while most of the petrol we
use here is imported we only do so because it's cheaper than making our
own. We could start our own production up and make our own fuel here if
the need arose.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 9/03/2023 8:11 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 9/03/2023 7:50 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 8/03/2023 3:22 pm, Noddy wrote:
>
>>>
>>> You live in a strange fantasy world. You can get far enough away from
>>> a disaster on a jerry can of fuel regardless of whatever you happen
>>> to drive, and refilling it to keep it fresh once a year isn't a big
>>> deal. Use the old fuel in your mower and refill the container with
>>> fresh fuel for your escape.
>>>
>>> Assuming, of course, this kind of fantasy situation ever arises which
>>> is highly unlikely :)
>>>
>>>
>>
>> **You could substitute 'zombie apocalypse' for a Chinese blockade of
>> sea freight to and from Australia. When/if that occurs, EV owners will
>> be the only vehicles travelling anywhere.
>
> I doubt it.
>
> We still produce oil in this country, and while most of the petrol we
> use here is imported we only do so because it's cheaper than making our
> own. We could start our own production up and make our own fuel here if
> the need arose.
>
>

**The pitifully small amount of oil we produce will go straight to
emergency services and defence. Consumers will not get a single drop.

OTOH: We can produce plenty of electricity. We can't produce enough oil
for our needs.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

On 9/03/2023 7:14 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 9/03/2023 8:11 am, Noddy wrote:
>> On 9/03/2023 7:50 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 8/03/2023 3:22 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> You live in a strange fantasy world. You can get far enough away
>>>> from a disaster on a jerry can of fuel regardless of whatever you
>>>> happen to drive, and refilling it to keep it fresh once a year isn't
>>>> a big deal. Use the old fuel in your mower and refill the container
>>>> with fresh fuel for your escape.
>>>>
>>>> Assuming, of course, this kind of fantasy situation ever arises
>>>> which is highly unlikely :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> **You could substitute 'zombie apocalypse' for a Chinese blockade of
>>> sea freight to and from Australia. When/if that occurs, EV owners
>>> will be the only vehicles travelling anywhere.
>>
>> I doubt it.
>>
>> We still produce oil in this country, and while most of the petrol we
>> use here is imported we only do so because it's cheaper than making
>> our own. We could start our own production up and make our own fuel
>> here if the need arose.
>>
>>
>
> **The pitifully small amount of oil we produce will go straight to
> emergency services and defence. Consumers will not get a single drop.
>
> OTOH: We can produce plenty of electricity. We can't produce enough oil
> for our needs.
>
Australia is a very big place to blockade.
--
Clocky on programming 18 Feb 2022
"What, you copy and paste code into a sketch in Arduino, select the
libraries to include, modify it a bit and hit program"

Clocky on NASA 18 Mar 2022
"Oh, and btw... if you worked for NASA how is it thay you are seemingly
oblivious to Commodore Amigas used at NASA"

On 9/03/2023 8:21 am, Keithr0 wrote:
> On 9/03/2023 7:14 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 9/03/2023 8:11 am, Noddy wrote:
>>> On 9/03/2023 7:50 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 8/03/2023 3:22 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You live in a strange fantasy world. You can get far enough away
>>>>> from a disaster on a jerry can of fuel regardless of whatever you
>>>>> happen to drive, and refilling it to keep it fresh once a year
>>>>> isn't a big deal. Use the old fuel in your mower and refill the
>>>>> container with fresh fuel for your escape.
>>>>>
>>>>> Assuming, of course, this kind of fantasy situation ever arises
>>>>> which is highly unlikely :)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> **You could substitute 'zombie apocalypse' for a Chinese blockade of
>>>> sea freight to and from Australia. When/if that occurs, EV owners
>>>> will be the only vehicles travelling anywhere.
>>>
>>> I doubt it.
>>>
>>> We still produce oil in this country, and while most of the petrol we
>>> use here is imported we only do so because it's cheaper than making
>>> our own. We could start our own production up and make our own fuel
>>> here if the need arose.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> **The pitifully small amount of oil we produce will go straight to
>> emergency services and defence. Consumers will not get a single drop.
>>
>> OTOH: We can produce plenty of electricity. We can't produce enough
>> oil for our needs.
>>
> Australia is a very big place to blockade.

**Indeed and China has (or soon will have) the capacity, the will and
the desire to do so. Australia needs to be totally self-sufficient in
energy production as soon as possible. Oil is our biggest problem and we
need to find alternative energy sources very quickly. Make no mistake:
China will neutralise Australia as soon as they think they need to.
Cutting off our oil is a very quick and easy way to fuck us. Oil tankers
move slowly and Chinese aircraft are much faster.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

On 8/03/2023 4:08 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 8/3/2023 1:40 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 8/03/2023 1:02 pm, Nomen Nescio wrote:
>>> I bet Elon has a diesel pickup with long-range tanks to
>>> escape the apocalyse.
>>>
>>
>> **I've been thinking about that. Let's say the zombie apocalypse
>> happens. No more refined oil. Petrol lasts about 1 year in a sealed
>> container. I am uncertain, but I guess Diesel will last a bit longer.
>> Maybe 2 years.
>
> Depends on how its stored, diesel needs to be sealed without any air and
> then it will last a very long time, I've also used petrol that was 5yrs
> old without a problem but its variable.
>
>  A battery pack will last a lot longer. Prolly 20+ years.
>
> A rather wild guess, batteries can last a long time if stored correctly
> but 10yrs is a more realistic guess.

**Which is WAY longer than oil.

>
>> A survivalist will be able to charge his Tesle via his Solar PV array,
>> whilst the fossil fueled vehicles become useless.
>>
>
> Certainly possible to charge an EV from solar but EV's need lots and
> lots of power so it could take a very long time to fully charge unless
> you have a very big solar system.
> The sort of portable solar panels that a survivalist could carry in a
> vehicle would take weeks to charge an EV.
>
>

**When China blockades Australian sea lanes, we will have no oil. What
will we run our cars on?

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

On 9/03/2023 8:14 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 9/03/2023 8:11 am, Noddy wrote:

>>> **You could substitute 'zombie apocalypse' for a Chinese blockade of
>>> sea freight to and from Australia. When/if that occurs, EV owners
>>> will be the only vehicles travelling anywhere.
>>
>> I doubt it.
>>
>> We still produce oil in this country, and while most of the petrol we
>> use here is imported we only do so because it's cheaper than making
>> our own. We could start our own production up and make our own fuel
>> here if the need arose.
>>
>>
>
> **The pitifully small amount of oil we produce will go straight to
> emergency services and defence. Consumers will not get a single drop.

Yeah, I don't think so.

> OTOH: We can produce plenty of electricity. We can't produce enough oil
> for our needs.

No, we don't, but we are capable of producing roughly one third of our
current daily needs from our own domestic supplies. That means that fuel
would become limited, and certainly much more expensive, but we wouldn't
be left without it.

This country got through WWII with fuel rationing, and if we had to do
something like that again we could.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 9/03/2023 8:21 am, Keithr0 wrote:
> On 9/03/2023 7:14 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:

>> **The pitifully small amount of oil we produce will go straight to
>> emergency services and defence. Consumers will not get a single drop.
>>
>> OTOH: We can produce plenty of electricity. We can't produce enough
>> oil for our needs.
>>
> Australia is a very big place to blockade.

It is.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 9/03/2023 8:41 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 9/03/2023 8:21 am, Keithr0 wrote:

>>> **The pitifully small amount of oil we produce will go straight to
>>> emergency services and defence. Consumers will not get a single drop.
>>>
>>> OTOH: We can produce plenty of electricity. We can't produce enough
>>> oil for our needs.
>>>
>> Australia is a very big place to blockade.
>
> **Indeed and China has (or soon will have) the capacity, the will and
> the desire to do so. Australia needs to be totally self-sufficient in
> energy production as soon as possible. Oil is our biggest problem and we
> need to find alternative energy sources very quickly. Make no mistake:
> China will neutralise Australia as soon as they think they need to.
> Cutting off our oil is a very quick and easy way to fuck us. Oil tankers
> move slowly and Chinese aircraft are much faster.

China likes to talk tough, but when it comes to putting their words into
action they're not that flash. They're also well aware that any action
they take against us would invariably see them facing action against our
allies which is not something they would look forward to.

We live in difficult times and it would be a fatal flaw to
under-estimate the Chinese, but your pessimistic view is equally wrong
in my opinion.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 9/03/2023 9:37 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 9/03/2023 8:41 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 9/03/2023 8:21 am, Keithr0 wrote:
>
>>>> **The pitifully small amount of oil we produce will go straight to
>>>> emergency services and defence. Consumers will not get a single drop.
>>>>
>>>> OTOH: We can produce plenty of electricity. We can't produce enough
>>>> oil for our needs.
>>>>
>>> Australia is a very big place to blockade.
>>
>> **Indeed and China has (or soon will have) the capacity, the will and
>> the desire to do so. Australia needs to be totally self-sufficient in
>> energy production as soon as possible. Oil is our biggest problem and
>> we need to find alternative energy sources very quickly. Make no
>> mistake: China will neutralise Australia as soon as they think they
>> need to. Cutting off our oil is a very quick and easy way to fuck us.
>> Oil tankers move slowly and Chinese aircraft are much faster.
>
> China likes to talk tough, but when it comes to putting their words into
> action they're not that flash. They're also well aware that any action
> they take against us would invariably see them facing action against our
> allies which is not something they would look forward to.

**That reliance would be a fatal mistake on our part. Should that
fucking idiot, Trump, be elected as the next POTUS, we will be left on
our own. DeSantis is an unknown factor, but you can bet he would be
happy to sacrifice Australia for votes. Australia MUST be able to be
self-sufficient in both defence and essential commodities.

>
> We live in difficult times and it would be a fatal flaw to
> under-estimate the Chinese, but your pessimistic view is equally wrong
> in my opinion.

**We'll see. The next US election will be critical to China's plans.
Trump will not defend Taiwan and has zero interest in Australia.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

On 9/03/2023 9:33 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 9/03/2023 8:14 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 9/03/2023 8:11 am, Noddy wrote:
>
>>>> **You could substitute 'zombie apocalypse' for a Chinese blockade of
>>>> sea freight to and from Australia. When/if that occurs, EV owners
>>>> will be the only vehicles travelling anywhere.
>>>
>>> I doubt it.
>>>
>>> We still produce oil in this country, and while most of the petrol we
>>> use here is imported we only do so because it's cheaper than making
>>> our own. We could start our own production up and make our own fuel
>>> here if the need arose.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> **The pitifully small amount of oil we produce will go straight to
>> emergency services and defence. Consumers will not get a single drop.
>
> Yeah, I don't think so.
>
>> OTOH: We can produce plenty of electricity. We can't produce enough
>> oil for our needs.
>
> No, we don't, but we are capable of producing roughly one third of our
> current daily needs from our own domestic supplies. That means that fuel
> would become limited, and certainly much more expensive, but we wouldn't
> be left without it.
>
> This country got through WWII with fuel rationing, and if we had to do
> something like that again we could.
>
>

**I knew someone would bring up WWII. Australia's population was MUCH
smaller and MUCH, MUCH, MUCH less reliant on fossil fuels back then. We
were desperate enough to make oil from shale deposits (very, VERY
expensively). The comparisons with how things were 80 years ago and
completely irrelevant.

Make no mistake: ALL available oil will be dedicated to essential
services and the military.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

On 9/3/2023 7:50 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 8/03/2023 3:22 pm, Noddy wrote:
>> On 8/03/2023 1:40 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 8/03/2023 1:02 pm, Nomen Nescio wrote:
>>>> I bet Elon has a diesel pickup with long-range tanks to
>>>> escape the apocalyse.
>>>>
>>>
>>> **I've been thinking about that. Let's say the zombie apocalypse
>>> happens. No more refined oil. Petrol lasts about 1 year in a sealed
>>> container.
>>
>> Bit more than that. I've had petrol that's been stored for over 2
>> years that's been fine. It lasts even longer if you use a fuel
>> stabiliser.
>>
>> I am uncertain, but I guess Diesel will last a bit longer.
>>
>> Diesel storage is about the same as petrol.
>>
>>> Maybe 2 years. A battery pack will last a lot longer. Prolly 20+
>>> years. A survivalist will be able to charge his Tesle via his Solar
>>> PV array, whilst the fossil fueled vehicles become useless.
>>
>> Lol :)
>>
>> You live in a strange fantasy world. You can get far enough away from
>> a disaster on a jerry can of fuel regardless of whatever you happen to
>> drive, and refilling it to keep it fresh once a year isn't a big deal.
>> Use the old fuel in your mower and refill the container with fresh
>> fuel for your escape.
>>
>> Assuming, of course, this kind of fantasy situation ever arises which
>> is highly unlikely :)
>>
>>
>
> **You could substitute 'zombie apocalypse' for a Chinese blockade of sea
> freight to and from Australia. When/if that occurs, EV owners will be
> the only vehicles travelling anywhere.
>
Doubt that, we do have oil but we import because ours isn't economically
viable, if we had no choice to use our own it could be done despite it
being expensive.
It would also take time to become available so there might be short term
supply issues.

--
Daryl

On 9/3/2023 8:41 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 9/03/2023 8:21 am, Keithr0 wrote:
>> On 9/03/2023 7:14 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 9/03/2023 8:11 am, Noddy wrote:
>>>> On 9/03/2023 7:50 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>> On 8/03/2023 3:22 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You live in a strange fantasy world. You can get far enough away
>>>>>> from a disaster on a jerry can of fuel regardless of whatever you
>>>>>> happen to drive, and refilling it to keep it fresh once a year
>>>>>> isn't a big deal. Use the old fuel in your mower and refill the
>>>>>> container with fresh fuel for your escape.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Assuming, of course, this kind of fantasy situation ever arises
>>>>>> which is highly unlikely :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> **You could substitute 'zombie apocalypse' for a Chinese blockade
>>>>> of sea freight to and from Australia. When/if that occurs, EV
>>>>> owners will be the only vehicles travelling anywhere.
>>>>
>>>> I doubt it.
>>>>
>>>> We still produce oil in this country, and while most of the petrol
>>>> we use here is imported we only do so because it's cheaper than
>>>> making our own. We could start our own production up and make our
>>>> own fuel here if the need arose.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> **The pitifully small amount of oil we produce will go straight to
>>> emergency services and defence. Consumers will not get a single drop.
>>>
>>> OTOH: We can produce plenty of electricity. We can't produce enough
>>> oil for our needs.
>>>
>> Australia is a very big place to blockade.
>
> **Indeed and China has (or soon will have) the capacity, the will and
> the desire to do so. Australia needs to be totally self-sufficient in
> energy production as soon as possible. Oil is our biggest problem and we
> need to find alternative energy sources very quickly. Make no mistake:
> China will neutralise Australia as soon as they think they need to.
> Cutting off our oil is a very quick and easy way to fuck us. Oil tankers
> move slowly and Chinese aircraft are much faster.
>
You are missing one thing, trade goes 2 ways and China desperately needs
our coal and other minerals such as lithium and iron ore, if they were
to block our fuel imports then they wouldn't be getting any of our
exports so it would cause them more problems than it would cause us.
Whilst it may cause us pain to not have fuel imports we will adapt but
the Chinese would be screwing themselves so the chances of it happening
are very very slim.

--
Daryl

Noddy <me@home.com> wrote in news:tu92hi$p0fa$1@dont-email.me:

>
> You live in a strange fantasy world.

O the irony...

On 9/3/2023 9:02 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 8/03/2023 4:08 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 8/3/2023 1:40 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 8/03/2023 1:02 pm, Nomen Nescio wrote:
>>>> I bet Elon has a diesel pickup with long-range tanks to
>>>> escape the apocalyse.
>>>>
>>>
>>> **I've been thinking about that. Let's say the zombie apocalypse
>>> happens. No more refined oil. Petrol lasts about 1 year in a sealed
>>> container. I am uncertain, but I guess Diesel will last a bit longer.
>>> Maybe 2 years.
>>
>> Depends on how its stored, diesel needs to be sealed without any air
>> and then it will last a very long time, I've also used petrol that was
>> 5yrs old without a problem but its variable.
>>
>>   A battery pack will last a lot longer. Prolly 20+ years.
>>
>> A rather wild guess, batteries can last a long time if stored
>> correctly but 10yrs is a more realistic guess.
>
> **Which is WAY longer than oil.
>
>>
>>> A survivalist will be able to charge his Tesle via his Solar PV
>>> array, whilst the fossil fueled vehicles become useless.
>>>
>>
>> Certainly possible to charge an EV from solar but EV's need lots and
>> lots of power so it could take a very long time to fully charge unless
>> you have a very big solar system.
>> The sort of portable solar panels that a survivalist could carry in a
>> vehicle would take weeks to charge an EV.
>>
>>
>
> **When China blockades Australian sea lanes, we will have no oil. What
> will we run our cars on?
>

If we are forced to use electric cars most of the power will have to
come from coal or gas since almost all solar panels are made in China
which is rather ironic.
If there is a positive to electric cars its that we won't need to rely
on anyone else for fuel supplies, their overall environmental benefits
are dubious at best and their cost is partly to blame for our inflation
problem.
I'm starting to think that EV's are the biggest con job in history,
Govts around the world have been conned into believing that EV's are the
only solution to reducing emissions when there are very viable
alternatives that are close to production ready.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxtxZY45RMM

--
Daryl

On 9/03/2023 10:56 am, Daryl wrote:
> On 9/3/2023 8:41 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 9/03/2023 8:21 am, Keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 9/03/2023 7:14 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 9/03/2023 8:11 am, Noddy wrote:
>>>>> On 9/03/2023 7:50 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>> On 8/03/2023 3:22 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You live in a strange fantasy world. You can get far enough away
>>>>>>> from a disaster on a jerry can of fuel regardless of whatever you
>>>>>>> happen to drive, and refilling it to keep it fresh once a year
>>>>>>> isn't a big deal. Use the old fuel in your mower and refill the
>>>>>>> container with fresh fuel for your escape.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Assuming, of course, this kind of fantasy situation ever arises
>>>>>>> which is highly unlikely :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **You could substitute 'zombie apocalypse' for a Chinese blockade
>>>>>> of sea freight to and from Australia. When/if that occurs, EV
>>>>>> owners will be the only vehicles travelling anywhere.
>>>>>
>>>>> I doubt it.
>>>>>
>>>>> We still produce oil in this country, and while most of the petrol
>>>>> we use here is imported we only do so because it's cheaper than
>>>>> making our own. We could start our own production up and make our
>>>>> own fuel here if the need arose.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> **The pitifully small amount of oil we produce will go straight to
>>>> emergency services and defence. Consumers will not get a single drop.
>>>>
>>>> OTOH: We can produce plenty of electricity. We can't produce enough
>>>> oil for our needs.
>>>>
>>> Australia is a very big place to blockade.
>>
>> **Indeed and China has (or soon will have) the capacity, the will and
>> the desire to do so. Australia needs to be totally self-sufficient in
>> energy production as soon as possible. Oil is our biggest problem and
>> we need to find alternative energy sources very quickly. Make no
>> mistake: China will neutralise Australia as soon as they think they
>> need to. Cutting off our oil is a very quick and easy way to fuck us.
>> Oil tankers move slowly and Chinese aircraft are much faster.
>>
> You are missing one thing, trade goes 2 ways and China desperately needs
> our coal and other minerals such as lithium and iron ore, if they were
> to block our fuel imports then they wouldn't be getting any of our
> exports so it would cause them more problems than it would cause us.

**No, it would not. They have their own (inferior, but usable) coal. As
do other places. And one of the biggest is Russia. China has not and
will not cut ties with Russia. The biggest known lithium deposits are in
Chile. Followed by China and most recently, Iran. China owns a very
large chunk of the company which mines lithium in Chile. China is
readying itself for a divorce from Australia. Iron ore is available from
a number of sources. China doesn't need Australia as much as you
imagine. We are just cheap(er).

> Whilst it may cause us pain to not have fuel imports we will adapt but
> the Chinese would be screwing themselves so the chances of it happening
> are very very slim.

**China won't be screwing itself. China is playing the long game. We
aren't. Australia is, as usual, looking very short term.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com