On 2021-06-26 09:41:20 +0000, Recliner said:

> MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>> On 26/06/2021 09:09, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> Better than nothing, but not an app you can wave at people. Seems
>>> there's some way to go before there's a unified scheme (and who knows if
>>> that or any other bit of paper, or app, is acceptable to a random
>>> official overseas).
>>
>> Just needs a bit more devolution and the regional NHS trusts to go their
>> own ways to be even more chaotic. Could be argued that just as much
>> reason for NHS Glasgow, Edinburgh, Grampian, Highland to all go their
>> way as there is for England, Scotland and Wales to be different.
>>
>
> No wonder President Macron doesn't regard the United(?) Kingdom as one
> country as far as sausages are concerned.

The UK Parliament passed legislation that agreed that the UK is not one
country as far as the movement of goods (including sausages) is
concerned, after a general election was held where the primary policy
up for debate at the time of the election was the passing of said
legislation. President Macron is simply following the treaty that the
UK proposed, signed, and passed into legislation.

Robin

On 26/06/2021 10:41, Recliner wrote:
> I have no interest in football, so I remain bemused why the UK can't field
> one really good team when it comes to international championships. Why
> domthe Scots prefer to support a perennially losing Scottish football team
> than a potentially unbeatable UK team?

It was all discussed at the time of the London Olympics. The Scots had
various arguments against but I think it was mainly because their
Olympic committee did not want to lose out a free jolly with lots of
freebies given away

On 26/06/2021 11:48, Roland Perry wrote:
> You didn't get the blue card?

No, phone call to go for the first jab and given a AZ sheet about what
to do if any problems. Then another call to go for the second jab.

It was done by the local medical centre so sure I can get a record if I
want.

On 26/06/2021 11:49, Roland Perry wrote:
> Like they do with the "Team GB" (where is NI?) Olympics, perhaps.

I am sure you are well aware why "GB" is the code for the British team!

On 27/06/2021 17:01, Roland Perry wrote:
> The main problem is that booking the hospital no longer seems to happen
> at the time you are with the GP. It's just something they "do
> afterwards". Even more so now that GP appts are largely not person to
> person.

There are three doctors in my medical practice, first few times I spoke
to one on the phone but since then I have always seen the same doctor
face to face (I go every month for a blood test).

On 28/06/2021 07:35, Roland Perry wrote:
> That's quite different from living in a rural area and the local
> hospital not being in such a partnership at all.

They tried to downgrade our local hospital some years ago, there was a
big campaign against the plans. A public was held in a local hall, it
was overflowing - I believe the police said it was the largest meeting
ever in the area.

On Mon, 28 Jun 2021 09:12:26 +0100, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:

>On 26/06/2021 10:41, Recliner wrote:
>> I have no interest in football, so I remain bemused why the UK can't field
>> one really good team when it comes to international championships. Why
>> domthe Scots prefer to support a perennially losing Scottish football team
>> than a potentially unbeatable UK team?
>
>It was all discussed at the time of the London Olympics. The Scots had
>various arguments against but I think it was mainly because their
>Olympic committee did not want to lose out a free jolly with lots of
>freebies given away

The UK does compete as a unified team at the Olympics. There is no
Scottish Olympic committee.

Mark

In message <sbc0et$6de$3@dont-email.me>, at 09:16:00 on Mon, 28 Jun
2021, MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>On 26/06/2021 11:49, Roland Perry wrote:

>> Like they do with the "Team GB" (where is NI?) Olympics, perhaps.
>
>I am sure you are well aware why "GB" is the code for the British team!

I blame men in grey suits in Geneva!
--
Roland Perry

In message <sbbtg0$ng7$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:24:48 on Mon, 28 Jun
2021, Bob <email@domain.com> remarked:

>The standard for the digital certificates has been agreed upon at a
>European level, and I believe the UK has decided to follow the same
>standard (as has CH).

What happened to the "we will not be a rule-taker" Brexiteer mantra?

Didn't last long, did it.
--
Roland Perry

In message <sbc16f$6de$4@dont-email.me>, at 09:28:35 on Mon, 28 Jun
2021, MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>On 27/06/2021 17:01, Roland Perry wrote:
>> The main problem is that booking the hospital no longer seems to happen
>> at the time you are with the GP. It's just something they "do
>> afterwards". Even more so now that GP appts are largely not person to
>> person.
>
>There are three doctors in my medical practice, first few times I spoke
>to one on the phone but since then I have always seen the same doctor
>face to face (I go every month for a blood test).

YMMV. My last "health centre" practice had about a dozen, the one I
moved from to there, now has nine partners plus five sessional GPs.

Part of the problem is that GP shortages and longer opening hours mean
it's not uncommon for them to work (like frontline staff in hospitals)
shifts of only three days a week). So catching "your" GP with a timely
appointment available is virtually impossible. At the dozen-GP one I
alluded to above, it took daily prodding of their website for weeks on
end to find an appointment a month after that.

Although having got in to see them once, they did follow-ups almost on
demand.
--
Roland Perry

On 28/06/2021 08:28, Bob wrote:
> On 2021-06-26 09:41:20 +0000, Recliner said:
>
>> MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>>> On 26/06/2021 09:09, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> Better than nothing, but not an app you can wave at people. Seems
>>>> there's some way to go before there's a unified scheme (and who
>>>> knows if
>>>> that or any other bit of paper, or app, is acceptable to a random
>>>> official overseas).
>>>
>>> Just needs a bit more devolution and the regional NHS trusts to go their
>>> own ways to be even more chaotic. Could be argued that just as much
>>> reason for NHS Glasgow, Edinburgh, Grampian, Highland to all go their
>>> way as there is for England, Scotland and Wales to be different.
>>>
>>
>> No wonder President Macron doesn't regard the United(?) Kingdom as one
>> country as far as sausages are concerned.
>
> The UK Parliament passed legislation that agreed that the UK is not one
> country as far as the movement of goods (including sausages) is
> concerned, after a general election was held where the primary policy up
> for debate at the time of the election was the passing of said
> legislation.  President Macron is simply following the treaty that the
> UK proposed, signed, and passed into legislation.

No, the election was won on the promise that NI would somehow keep free
access to both GB and RoI whilst satisfying the EU requirement to
prevent its citizens from buying British.

On 2021-06-28 11:19:37 +0000, Certes said:

> On 28/06/2021 08:28, Bob wrote:
>> On 2021-06-26 09:41:20 +0000, Recliner said:
>>
>>> MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>>>> On 26/06/2021 09:09, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> Better than nothing, but not an app you can wave at people. Seems
>>>>> there's some way to go before there's a unified scheme (and who knows if
>>>>> that or any other bit of paper, or app, is acceptable to a random
>>>>> official overseas).
>>>>
>>>> Just needs a bit more devolution and the regional NHS trusts to go their
>>>> own ways to be even more chaotic. Could be argued that just as much
>>>> reason for NHS Glasgow, Edinburgh, Grampian, Highland to all go their
>>>> way as there is for England, Scotland and Wales to be different.
>>>>
>>>
>>> No wonder President Macron doesn't regard the United(?) Kingdom as one
>>> country as far as sausages are concerned.
>>
>> The UK Parliament passed legislation that agreed that the UK is not one
>> country as far as the movement of goods (including sausages) is
>> concerned, after a general election was held where the primary policy
>> up for debate at the time of the election was the passing of said
>> legislation.  President Macron is simply following the treaty that the
>> UK proposed, signed, and passed into legislation.
>
> No, the election was won on the promise that NI would somehow keep free
> access to both GB and RoI whilst satisfying the EU requirement to
> prevent its citizens from buying British.

However those promises were contrary to the Withdrawl Agreement, which
had already been signed and was before parliament at the time of the
General Election, and the Conservatives won the general election on the
promise of implimenenting the agreement as written (the so-called "oven
ready deal"). The MPs who were duly elected then voted on, and passed
that legislation. The issues regarding Northern Ireland were in the
deal, and the deal was public knowledge at the time, having been
presented to and debated in Parliament. President Macron had nothing
to do with the British Parliament voting to adopt the deal in British
legislation. If the voters, or indeed MPs, didn't bother to read and
understand that deal, and the adoption of that deal was very much at
the centre of the Conservative election pledges, that is not the fault
of anyone but themselves.

Robin

On Mon, 28 Jun 2021 11:25:37 +0100
Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <sbbtg0$ng7$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:24:48 on Mon, 28 Jun
>2021, Bob <email@domain.com> remarked:
>
>>The standard for the digital certificates has been agreed upon at a
>>European level, and I believe the UK has decided to follow the same
>>standard (as has CH).
>
>What happened to the "we will not be a rule-taker" Brexiteer mantra?

There's a big difference between told to implement a standard and deciding
to implement it. Unless you think we should always do everything different to
the EU just for the sake of it?

On Mon, 28 Jun 2021 13:28:16 +0200
Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
>However those promises were contrary to the Withdrawl Agreement, which
>had already been signed and was before parliament at the time of the
>General Election, and the Conservatives won the general election on the
>promise of implimenenting the agreement as written (the so-called "oven
>ready deal"). The MPs who were duly elected then voted on, and passed
>that legislation. The issues regarding Northern Ireland were in the
>deal, and the deal was public knowledge at the time, having been
>presented to and debated in Parliament. President Macron had nothing
>to do with the British Parliament voting to adopt the deal in British

Given how the French have widely flouted EU law in the past they really
have no business getting into this argument. No one is fooled into thinking
Macron is doing this for any reason other than playing to the gallery in
order to head off Le Pen.

On 28/06/2021 10:01, Mark Goodge wrote:
> The UK does compete as a unified team at the Olympics. There is no
> Scottish Olympic committee.

There would be some sort of local organisation if they had chance to
compete separately.

On 28/06/2021 11:17, Roland Perry wrote:
> I blame men in grey suits in Geneva!

They are usually to blame along with the ones in Dior suits in Brussels!

We had a lecturer who was very fond of talking about "the men in grey
suits". I think he had done some work with either the ITU or EBU.

In message <sbcbud$bh$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 11:31:25 on Mon, 28 Jun
2021, MrSpud_0al@99xmq2fz25v0zyjjdob2ej.edu remarked:
>On Mon, 28 Jun 2021 11:25:37 +0100
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:

>>In message <sbbtg0$ng7$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:24:48 on Mon, 28 Jun
>>2021, Bob <email@domain.com> remarked:
>>
>>>The standard for the digital certificates has been agreed upon at a
>>>European level, and I believe the UK has decided to follow the same
>>>standard (as has CH).
>>
>>What happened to the "we will not be a rule-taker" Brexiteer mantra?
>
>There's a big difference between told to implement a standard and deciding
>to implement it.

Doesn't the above say we have (decided to implement it)?

>Unless you think we should always do everything different to
>the EU just for the sake of it?

I don't think so, but the sainted Boris gives every impression of it.
--
Roland Perry

On Mon, 28 Jun 2021 13:58:17 +0100
Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <sbcbud$bh$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 11:31:25 on Mon, 28 Jun
>2021, MrSpud_0al@99xmq2fz25v0zyjjdob2ej.edu remarked:
>>On Mon, 28 Jun 2021 11:25:37 +0100
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>>In message <sbbtg0$ng7$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:24:48 on Mon, 28 Jun
>>>2021, Bob <email@domain.com> remarked:
>>>
>>>>The standard for the digital certificates has been agreed upon at a
>>>>European level, and I believe the UK has decided to follow the same
>>>>standard (as has CH).
>>>
>>>What happened to the "we will not be a rule-taker" Brexiteer mantra?
>>
>>There's a big difference between told to implement a standard and deciding
>>to implement it.
>
>Doesn't the above say we have (decided to implement it)?

AFAIK they didn't tell us to do it, we decided to. Which part of that is
confusing you? I've no doubt there a lot of new EU rules since brexit that
we've ignored.

In message <sbcigt$16sg$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 13:23:41 on Mon, 28 Jun
2021, MrSpud_adsfrw@di8z2uvfe5zjbco5.edu remarked:
>On Mon, 28 Jun 2021 13:58:17 +0100
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>In message <sbcbud$bh$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 11:31:25 on Mon, 28 Jun
>>2021, MrSpud_0al@99xmq2fz25v0zyjjdob2ej.edu remarked:
>>>On Mon, 28 Jun 2021 11:25:37 +0100
>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>>In message <sbbtg0$ng7$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:24:48 on Mon, 28 Jun
>>>>2021, Bob <email@domain.com> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>>The standard for the digital certificates has been agreed upon at a
>>>>>European level, and I believe the UK has decided to follow the same
>>>>>standard (as has CH).
>>>>
>>>>What happened to the "we will not be a rule-taker" Brexiteer mantra?
>>>
>>>There's a big difference between told to implement a standard and deciding
>>>to implement it.
>>
>>Doesn't the above say we have (decided to implement it)?
>
>AFAIK they didn't tell us to do it, we decided to. Which part of that is
>confusing you?

None of it. Just the concept of now having to follow a rule dreamt up by
unelected bureaucrats - which I though was anathema.

--
Roland Perry

On 28/06/2021 07:35, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <avehdg5nmhl8cnhf3gk8vt7krgdc5sdlfh@4ax.com>, at 19:04:36 on
> Sun, 27 Jun 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>> On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 14:26:05 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <sb9s6u$lmp$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:50:38 on Sun, 27 Jun
>>> 2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>
>>>>> I know it is a special case, but I have "a" hospital to go to. The
>>>>> next
>>>>> nearest one is 200 miles away.....
>>>>
>>>> Don’t they put you on a plane at reduced/no cost though? And you’ve got
>>>> some of the happiest medical staff at your hospital, so why go anywhere
>>>> else? My son has done a stint there.
>>>
>>> Wasn't there a daytime TV fly-on-the-wall show about Shetland hospital
>>> services? I got the impression that anything slightly complicated did
>>> indeed involve flying hundreds of miles at NHS expense, and all the
>>> patients did was complain it took them all day to do the return trip.
>>>
>> "Island Medics"
>> Possibly not so much "anything slightly complicated" rather than (just
>> as in hospitals in towns and cities in England) there is another more
>> appropriate hospital for the patient to be transferred to.
>
> The episode I saw was about someone who needed an MRI scan. They aren't
> particularly complicated, but the hospital didn't have a scanner. It
> wasn't an emergency.
>

[snip]

CT scanner is in Shetland, but an MRI needs transfer to Aberdeen at
present, although a new MRI scanner is currently in the process of being
sourced and should be in place within a year (delayed because of Covid).

--
Colin

On 28/06/2021 11:24, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <sbc16f$6de$4@dont-email.me>, at 09:28:35 on Mon, 28 Jun
> 2021, MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>> On 27/06/2021 17:01, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> The main problem is that booking the hospital no longer seems to happen
>>> at the time you are with the GP. It's just something they "do
>>> afterwards". Even more so now that GP appts are largely not person to
>>> person.
>>
>> There are three doctors in my medical practice, first few times I
>> spoke to one on the phone but since then I have always seen the same
>> doctor face to face (I go every month for a blood test).
>
> YMMV. My last "health centre" practice had about a dozen, the one I
> moved from to there, now has nine partners plus five sessional GPs.
>
> Part of the problem is that GP shortages and longer opening hours mean
> it's not uncommon for them to work (like frontline staff in hospitals)
> shifts of only three days a week). So catching "your" GP with a timely
> appointment available is virtually impossible. At the dozen-GP one I
> alluded to above, it took daily prodding of their website for weeks on
> end to find an appointment a month after that.
>
> Although having got in to see them once, they did follow-ups almost on
> demand.

My partner decided late on a Friday afeternoon that a particular problem
warranted a visit to the GP (pre Covid day). Rang to get an appointment
about 3pm, we were back home by 5pm!! The advantages of a rural practice.

--
Colin

On 28/06/2021 14:41, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <sbcigt$16sg$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 13:23:41 on Mon, 28 Jun
> 2021, MrSpud_adsfrw@di8z2uvfe5zjbco5.edu remarked:
>> On Mon, 28 Jun 2021 13:58:17 +0100
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <sbcbud$bh$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 11:31:25 on Mon, 28 Jun
>>> 2021, MrSpud_0al@99xmq2fz25v0zyjjdob2ej.edu remarked:
>>>> On Mon, 28 Jun 2021 11:25:37 +0100
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> In message <sbbtg0$ng7$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:24:48 on Mon, 28 Jun
>>>>> 2021, Bob <email@domain.com> remarked:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The standard for the digital certificates has been agreed upon at a
>>>>>> European level, and I believe the UK has decided to follow the same
>>>>>> standard (as has CH).
>>>>>
>>>>> What happened to the "we will not be a rule-taker" Brexiteer mantra?
>>>>
>>>> There's a big difference between told to implement a standard and
>>>> deciding
>>>> to implement it.
>>>
>>> Doesn't the above say we have (decided to implement it)?
>>
>> AFAIK they didn't tell us to do it, we decided to. Which part of that is
>> confusing you?
>
> None of it. Just the concept of now having to follow a rule dreamt up by
> unelected bureaucrats - which I though was anathema.
>

Then you thunk wrong!!

--
Colin

ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
> On 28/06/2021 11:24, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <sbc16f$6de$4@dont-email.me>, at 09:28:35 on Mon, 28 Jun
>> 2021, MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>>> On 27/06/2021 17:01, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> The main problem is that booking the hospital no longer seems to happen
>>>> at the time you are with the GP. It's just something they "do
>>>> afterwards". Even more so now that GP appts are largely not person to
>>>> person.
>>>
>>> There are three doctors in my medical practice, first few times I
>>> spoke to one on the phone but since then I have always seen the same
>>> doctor face to face (I go every month for a blood test).
>>
>> YMMV. My last "health centre" practice had about a dozen, the one I
>> moved from to there, now has nine partners plus five sessional GPs.
>>
>> Part of the problem is that GP shortages and longer opening hours mean
>> it's not uncommon for them to work (like frontline staff in hospitals)
>> shifts of only three days a week). So catching "your" GP with a timely
>> appointment available is virtually impossible. At the dozen-GP one I
>> alluded to above, it took daily prodding of their website for weeks on
>> end to find an appointment a month after that.
>>
>> Although having got in to see them once, they did follow-ups almost on
>> demand.
>
> My partner decided late on a Friday afeternoon that a particular problem
> warranted a visit to the GP (pre Covid day). Rang to get an appointment
> about 3pm, we were back home by 5pm!! The advantages of a rural practice.
>

Did you leave a bucket of salmon as a thank you? That’s what my son got
when working at a GP practice on Shetland.

On Mon, 28 Jun 2021 14:41:04 +0100
Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <sbcigt$16sg$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 13:23:41 on Mon, 28 Jun
>2021, MrSpud_adsfrw@di8z2uvfe5zjbco5.edu remarked:
>>On Mon, 28 Jun 2021 13:58:17 +0100
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>In message <sbcbud$bh$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 11:31:25 on Mon, 28 Jun
>>>2021, MrSpud_0al@99xmq2fz25v0zyjjdob2ej.edu remarked:
>>>>On Mon, 28 Jun 2021 11:25:37 +0100
>>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>In message <sbbtg0$ng7$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:24:48 on Mon, 28 Jun
>>>>>2021, Bob <email@domain.com> remarked:
>>>>>
>>>>>>The standard for the digital certificates has been agreed upon at a
>>>>>>European level, and I believe the UK has decided to follow the same
>>>>>>standard (as has CH).
>>>>>
>>>>>What happened to the "we will not be a rule-taker" Brexiteer mantra?
>>>>
>>>>There's a big difference between told to implement a standard and deciding
>>>>to implement it.
>>>
>>>Doesn't the above say we have (decided to implement it)?
>>
>>AFAIK they didn't tell us to do it, we decided to. Which part of that is
>>confusing you?
>
>None of it. Just the concept of now having to follow a rule dreamt up by
>unelected bureaucrats - which I though was anathema.

Having to? Who's making us?

On 28/06/2021 12:19, Certes wrote:
> On 28/06/2021 08:28, Bob wrote:
>> On 2021-06-26 09:41:20 +0000, Recliner said:
>>
>>> MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>>>> On 26/06/2021 09:09, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> Better than nothing, but not an app you can wave at people. Seems
>>>>> there's some way to go before there's a unified scheme (and who
>>>>> knows if
>>>>> that or any other bit of paper, or app, is acceptable to a random
>>>>> official overseas).
>>>>
>>>> Just needs a bit more devolution and the regional NHS trusts to go
>>>> their
>>>> own ways to be even more chaotic. Could be argued that just as much
>>>> reason for NHS Glasgow, Edinburgh, Grampian, Highland to all go their
>>>> way as there is for England, Scotland and Wales to be different.
>>>>
>>>
>>> No wonder President Macron doesn't regard the United(?) Kingdom as one
>>> country as far as sausages are concerned.
>>
>> The UK Parliament passed legislation that agreed that the UK is not
>> one country as far as the movement of goods (including sausages) is
>> concerned, after a general election was held where the primary policy
>> up for debate at the time of the election was the passing of said
>> legislation.  President Macron is simply following the treaty that the
>> UK proposed, signed, and passed into legislation.
>
> No, the election was won on the promise that NI would somehow keep free
> access to both GB and RoI whilst satisfying the EU requirement to
> prevent its citizens from buying British.

Which is not possible and the government knew it. Therefore they
knowingly proposed, signed, and passed into legislation a treaty that
said precisely that.

--
Graeme Wall
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