There is a clip of a Russian armoured train on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/historicfirearm/status/1501244788384931852

MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> There is a clip of a Russian armoured train on Twitter.
>
> https://twitter.com/historicfirearm/status/1501244788384931852
>
>
>

Bleedin Taggers will mark anything nowadays.

GH

Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
> MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>> There is a clip of a Russian armoured train on Twitter.
>>
>> https://twitter.com/historicfirearm/status/1501244788384931852
>>
>>
>>
>
> Bleedin Taggers will mark anything nowadays.

The 'Z' symbol has become the new swastika.

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>> MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>>> There is a clip of a Russian armoured train on Twitter.
>>>
>>> https://twitter.com/historicfirearm/status/1501244788384931852
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Bleedin Taggers will mark anything nowadays.
>
> The 'Z' symbol has become the new swastika.
>
>

True, but I wonder if the West had a campaign to reclaim it as the Mark of
Zorro could be fun,
Zorros fictional attributes strangely mirror much of those that Putin
attributes to himself and his actions but being ridiculed as a fictional
comedic cowboy character might annoy him in the way Charlie Chaplin annoyed
Hitler.

GH

Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>> MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>>>> There is a clip of a Russian armoured train on Twitter.
>>>>
>>>> https://twitter.com/historicfirearm/status/1501244788384931852
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Bleedin Taggers will mark anything nowadays.
>>
>> The 'Z' symbol has become the new swastika.
>>
>>
>
> True, but I wonder if the West had a campaign to reclaim it as the Mark of
> Zorro could be fun,
> Zorros fictional attributes strangely mirror much of those that Putin
> attributes to himself and his actions but being ridiculed as a fictional
> comedic cowboy character might annoy him in the way Charlie Chaplin annoyed
> Hitler.

There's a more relevant, effective Z character to associate the symbol
with:

<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/780b73ca-9f1a-11ec-b38e-10b333e9179b?shareToken=0c09f84a7a2b145fdec698108a941f79>

On 09/03/2022 17:48, Clank wrote:
> Reminds me that the moment I realised "shit is about to get real"

I was on an IASTE exchange in the Netherlands when the Soviets went into
Czechoslovakia, the student flats were by the Eindhoven bypass. I was
woken in the middle of the night by a rumbling sound, I looked out of
the window and saw lines of APC on the move. Presumably NATO mobilising.

Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> wrote:
> MB <MB@nospam.net> Wrote in message:r
>> There is a clip of a Russian armoured train on
>> Twitter.https://twitter.com/historicfirearm/status/1501244788384931852
>
> Reminds me that the moment I realised "shit is about to get real"
> was the Sunday before the invasion - on the train down to
> Constanța I noticed on the next track a train with a row of
> passenger cars freshly painted in Romanian military
> colours/roundels and behind them a row of wagons carrying
> armoured vehicles/tanks. It looked like something straight out
> of WW2.
>
> If that was foreshadowing, being at Gara du Nord to welcome a
> train load of refugees arriving from the camp at Suceava this
> week really hammered the point home. I don't mind admitting it
> has moved me to tears. We are living through scenes I could never
> have imagined in my lifetime.
>

Yes, indeed. None of us could have expected any of this. Have you
previously visited any of the areas occupied by Russia?

Anyway, I'm glad you weren't trapped the wrong side of a suddenly closed
border.

On 09/03/2022 21:01, Recliner wrote:
> Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> MB <MB@nospam.net> Wrote in message:r
>>> There is a clip of a Russian armoured train on
>>> Twitter.https://twitter.com/historicfirearm/status/1501244788384931852
>>
>> Reminds me that the moment I realised "shit is about to get real"
>> was the Sunday before the invasion - on the train down to
>> Constanța I noticed on the next track a train with a row of
>> passenger cars freshly painted in Romanian military
>> colours/roundels and behind them a row of wagons carrying
>> armoured vehicles/tanks. It looked like something straight out
>> of WW2.
>>
>> If that was foreshadowing, being at Gara du Nord to welcome a
>> train load of refugees arriving from the camp at Suceava this
>> week really hammered the point home. I don't mind admitting it
>> has moved me to tears. We are living through scenes I could never
>> have imagined in my lifetime.
>>
>
> Yes, indeed. None of us could have expected any of this. Have you
> previously visited any of the areas occupied by Russia?
>
> Anyway, I'm glad you weren't trapped the wrong side of a suddenly closed
> border.
>

Seconded.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r
>>> Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>> MB <MB@nospam.net> Wrote in message:r
>>>> There is a clip of a Russian armoured train on
>>>> Twitter.https://twitter.com/historicfirearm/status/1501244788384931852>
>>> Reminds me that the moment I realised "shit is about to get real"
>>> was the Sunday before the invasion - on the train down to
>>> Constanța I noticed on the next track a train with a row of
>>> passenger cars freshly painted in Romanian military
>>> colours/roundels and behind them a row of wagons carrying
>>> armoured vehicles/tanks. It looked like something straight out> of WW2.
>>>
>>> If that was foreshadowing, being at Gara du Nord to welcome a
>>> train load of refugees arriving from the camp at Suceava this
>>> week really hammered the point home. I don't mind admitting it
>>> has moved me to tears. We are living through scenes I could never
>>> have imagined in my lifetime.
>> Yes, indeed. None of us could have expected any of this. Have you
>> previously visited any of the areas occupied by Russia?
>
> Kharkiv is a city I know very well, surreal and shocking to see
> streets and buildings I know well razed to the ground. For the
> last 8 years though I've mostly worked in L'viv in the west,
> which so far at least has not been attacked - indeed the local
> speculation is that Putin is leaving L'viv in tact as the home of
> a rump Ukrainian government after he has laid claim to everything
> east of the Dnieper as Russian.

People in the Russian-speaking areas of east Ukraine must have been
horrified at coming under lethal attack by their supposed brothers from
across the border.

Having not received the friendly welcome they were expecting in eastern
Ukraine, it looks like the Russians are reducing their demands, but they're
still completely unrealistic. It looks like Russia will soon be defaulting
on its debts, so I wonder how long it'll be able to fund this expensive,
stalled war?

I wonder if the men you worked with in Ukraine have now joined up to fight
as partisans?

>
>> Anyway, I'm glad you weren't trapped the wrong side of a suddenly closed
>> border.
>
> Indeed, thank you, I appreciate that. My closest friend managed to
> get his ex-wife and daughter across the border and they are now
> safely here in Bucharest; we set up a daycare facility for our
> employees' evacuated kids in our offices here and I have to say
> the resilience of children is one of the few glimmers of hope in
> the world. They are holding up better than their parents on the
> whole.
>

Yes, but I wonder if they'll have bad dreams in later life?

It's very impressive how the countries of western and central Europe have
welcomed the millions of refugees who have suddenly been forced out by
Russia. Unfortunately, Britain's record has been rather less impressive.

On 2022-03-09 10:06:10 PM +0000, Recliner said:

> Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r
>>>> Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>>> MB <MB@nospam.net> Wrote in message:r
>>>>> There is a clip of a Russian armoured train on
>>>>> Twitter.https://twitter.com/historicfirearm/status/1501244788384931852>
>>>> Reminds me that the moment I realised "shit is about to get real"
>>>> was the Sunday before the invasion - on the train down to
>>>> Constanța I noticed on the next track a train with a row of
>>>> passenger cars freshly painted in Romanian military
>>>> colours/roundels and behind them a row of wagons carrying
>>>> armoured vehicles/tanks. It looked like something straight out> of WW2.
>>>>
>>>> If that was foreshadowing, being at Gara du Nord to welcome a
>>>> train load of refugees arriving from the camp at Suceava this
>>>> week really hammered the point home. I don't mind admitting it
>>>> has moved me to tears. We are living through scenes I could never
>>>> have imagined in my lifetime.
>>> Yes, indeed. None of us could have expected any of this. Have you
>>> previously visited any of the areas occupied by Russia?
>>
>> Kharkiv is a city I know very well, surreal and shocking to see
>> streets and buildings I know well razed to the ground. For the
>> last 8 years though I've mostly worked in L'viv in the west,
>> which so far at least has not been attacked - indeed the local
>> speculation is that Putin is leaving L'viv in tact as the home of
>> a rump Ukrainian government after he has laid claim to everything
>> east of the Dnieper as Russian.
>
> People in the Russian-speaking areas of east Ukraine must have been
> horrified at coming under lethal attack by their supposed brothers from
> across the border.

I think in 2014 they were horrified - now it is not so much of a
surprise. Much as in this round Putin has done more to bring NATO and
the EU together than decades of peace, in 2014 he did more for unifying
Ukrainians than any Ukrainian politician ever managed. The first time
I ever visited Kharkiv (then Kharkov, of course,) I asked if anybody
there spoke Ukrainian - I received a look as if I was crazy and was
told (verbatim quote) "only crazy nationalists speak Ukrainian".

After 2014, they were all attending Ukrainian language classes.

Kharkiv was actually a great disappointment for the Russians back then
- there *were* genuine splits in the country between Ukrainian and
Russian speaking parts. Kharkov was expected to be on the Russian side
- the mayor was pro-Russia and had visions of being the first president
of the new Kharkov Republic much as happened in Donetsk and Luhansk.
Unfortunately he discovered fairly rapidly that me had majorly
misjudged the mood of the population - he fled to Turkey for a little
while while the people roundly kicked the arse of Putin's little green
men (I was 'fortunate' enough to be there at the time, and can
personally vouch for the presence of 'holidaying' Russian troops) and
returned a born-again Ukrainian. What pro-Russian sentiment existed
before 2014 evaporated with that invasion, and the intervening years
have really solidified Ukraine as an independent state, even in the
Russian-speaking areas.

>
> Having not received the friendly welcome they were expecting in eastern
> Ukraine, it looks like the Russians are reducing their demands, but they're
> still completely unrealistic. It looks like Russia will soon be defaulting
> on its debts, so I wonder how long it'll be able to fund this expensive,
> stalled war?

The Russian expectation of a friendly welcome is a most baffling thing.
The Russian *people* are completely brainwashed, to a terrifying
degree, we all knew that. But it really starts to appear that the
Russian *leadership* have started believing their own propaganda - that
is the surprising thing.

>
> I wonder if the men you worked with in Ukraine have now joined up to fight
> as partisans?

A few are in local militias, some have joined the official Territorial
Defence Forces. I fear for the latter most of all - there is no
guarantee they stay where they are safe in L'viv, they may be posted
anywhere in the country they are needed. My "right hand man" in L'viv,
an exceptionally good software engineer, has spent the last week
training as a sniper...

>
>>
>>> Anyway, I'm glad you weren't trapped the wrong side of a suddenly closed
>>> border.
>>
>> Indeed, thank you, I appreciate that. My closest friend managed to
>> get his ex-wife and daughter across the border and they are now
>> safely here in Bucharest; we set up a daycare facility for our
>> employees' evacuated kids in our offices here and I have to say
>> the resilience of children is one of the few glimmers of hope in
>> the world. They are holding up better than their parents on the
>> whole.
>>
>
> Yes, but I wonder if they'll have bad dreams in later life?
>
> It's very impressive how the countries of western and central Europe have
> welcomed the millions of refugees who have suddenly been forced out by
> Russia. Unfortunately, Britain's record has been rather less impressive.

Indeed. The Romanian government is usually a watchword for
incompetence, but to be fair to them they have moved quickly and
competently; supported by the population mobilising very quickly to
help - partly out of a general national pride in providing hospitality,
but also out of a strong sense of "there but by the grace of God go
we". Nobody believes Putin will stop there if he succeeds in Ukraine.

By way of illustration, while some were suggesting Ukrainian refugees
could pick fruit, the Romanian government quickly produced and
distributed these:
https://www.gov.ro/fisiere/impreuna_ajutam_mai_mult/Brosura-A5-ENG.pdf

Under normal circumstances the phrase "you will be protected by the
Romanian state" would attract little more than a hollow laugh, but in
these times - that simple first sentence is exactly what people needed
to hear. You don't need to be rich and powerful to offer solace at
times like this, you just need to have a heart.

In the interests of balance though - notwithstanding things like the
fruit picking visa comments, which were just disgraceful - the UK's
reputation remains good in Ukraine (and indeed Romania); the provision
of large quantities of what the Ukrainians actually need right now -
arms - is recognised and appreciated by the Ukrainians. Actually, you
could even say there is a rare of example of all of Europe playing to
its strengths - the poorer, neighbouring countries have stepped up in
the humanitarian relief. The richer western European countries have
gone further than many dreamed possible in inflicting economic damage
on Russia (indeed, for the first time I am starting to think Brexit
maybe wasn't a bad thing - EU decision making has been swifter and
stronger without the need to balance Londongrad's needs). And the UK
has been stronger than the continent on the provision of arms/direct
support to the military. It is difficult to judge anyone too
negatively.

On 09/03/2022 22:06, Recliner wrote:
> It's very impressive how the countries of western and central Europe have
> welcomed the millions of refugees who have suddenly been forced out by
> Russia. Unfortunately, Britain's record has been rather less impressive.

How many Ugandan Asian refugees did Germany take in? How many Hong Kong
Chinese?

Am 09.03.2022 um 23:06 schrieb Recliner:
> Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r
>>>> Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>>> MB <MB@nospam.net> Wrote in message:r
>>>>> There is a clip of a Russian armoured train on
>>>>> Twitter.https://twitter.com/historicfirearm/status/1501244788384931852>
>>>> Reminds me that the moment I realised "shit is about to get real"
>>>> was the Sunday before the invasion - on the train down to
>>>> Constanța I noticed on the next track a train with a row of
>>>> passenger cars freshly painted in Romanian military
>>>> colours/roundels and behind them a row of wagons carrying
>>>> armoured vehicles/tanks. It looked like something straight out> of WW2.
>>>>
>>>> If that was foreshadowing, being at Gara du Nord to welcome a
>>>> train load of refugees arriving from the camp at Suceava this
>>>> week really hammered the point home. I don't mind admitting it
>>>> has moved me to tears. We are living through scenes I could never
>>>> have imagined in my lifetime.
>>> Yes, indeed. None of us could have expected any of this. Have you
>>> previously visited any of the areas occupied by Russia?
>>
>> Kharkiv is a city I know very well, surreal and shocking to see
>> streets and buildings I know well razed to the ground. For the
>> last 8 years though I've mostly worked in L'viv in the west,
>> which so far at least has not been attacked - indeed the local
>> speculation is that Putin is leaving L'viv in tact as the home of
>> a rump Ukrainian government after he has laid claim to everything
>> east of the Dnieper as Russian.
>
> People in the Russian-speaking areas of east Ukraine must have been
> horrified at coming under lethal attack by their supposed brothers from
> across the border.
>
> Having not received the friendly welcome they were expecting in eastern
> Ukraine, it looks like the Russians are reducing their demands, but they're
> still completely unrealistic. It looks like Russia will soon be defaulting
> on its debts, so I wonder how long it'll be able to fund this expensive,
> stalled war?
>
> I wonder if the men you worked with in Ukraine have now joined up to fight
> as partisans?
>
>>
>>> Anyway, I'm glad you weren't trapped the wrong side of a suddenly closed
>>> border.
>>
>> Indeed, thank you, I appreciate that. My closest friend managed to
>> get his ex-wife and daughter across the border and they are now
>> safely here in Bucharest; we set up a daycare facility for our
>> employees' evacuated kids in our offices here and I have to say
>> the resilience of children is one of the few glimmers of hope in
>> the world. They are holding up better than their parents on the
>> whole.
>>
>
> Yes, but I wonder if they'll have bad dreams in later life?

It's not quite as bad as 1945, but judging by my parents' generation,
yes they are likely to, unless they get sufficient support councelling
in the receiving countries.

> It's very impressive how the countries of western and central Europe have
> welcomed the millions of refugees who have suddenly been forced out by
> Russia. Unfortunately, Britain's record has been rather less impressive.

On the way back from my skiing holidays in Salzburg, suddenly the
memories from our way back from holidays in 2015 came up without any
direct trigger other than the railway station building. 5 minutes
later, we had an unscheduled 30-minute stop in Freilassing, for a "full
train" passport check on entering Germany: they let everybody in but
want to register everybody on entry.

On 10/03/2022 08:29, MB wrote:
> On 09/03/2022 22:06, Recliner wrote:
>> It's very impressive how the countries of western and central Europe have
>> welcomed the millions of refugees who have suddenly been forced out by
>> Russia. Unfortunately, Britain's record has been rather less impressive.
>
> How many Ugandan Asian refugees did Germany take in?  How many Hong Kong
> Chinese?
>
>

I'm willing to bet you don't know.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On 2022-03-09 10:06:10 PM +0000, Recliner said:
>
>> Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r
>>>>> Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> MB <MB@nospam.net> Wrote in message:r
>>>>>> There is a clip of a Russian armoured train on
>>>>>> Twitter.https://twitter.com/historicfirearm/status/1501244788384931852>
>>>>> Reminds me that the moment I realised "shit is about to get real"
>>>>> was the Sunday before the invasion - on the train down to
>>>>> Constanța I noticed on the next track a train with a row of
>>>>> passenger cars freshly painted in Romanian military
>>>>> colours/roundels and behind them a row of wagons carrying
>>>>> armoured vehicles/tanks. It looked like something straight out> of WW2.
>>>>>
>>>>> If that was foreshadowing, being at Gara du Nord to welcome a
>>>>> train load of refugees arriving from the camp at Suceava this
>>>>> week really hammered the point home. I don't mind admitting it
>>>>> has moved me to tears. We are living through scenes I could never
>>>>> have imagined in my lifetime.
>>>> Yes, indeed. None of us could have expected any of this. Have you
>>>> previously visited any of the areas occupied by Russia?
>>>
>>> Kharkiv is a city I know very well, surreal and shocking to see
>>> streets and buildings I know well razed to the ground. For the
>>> last 8 years though I've mostly worked in L'viv in the west,
>>> which so far at least has not been attacked - indeed the local
>>> speculation is that Putin is leaving L'viv in tact as the home of
>>> a rump Ukrainian government after he has laid claim to everything
>>> east of the Dnieper as Russian.
>>
>> People in the Russian-speaking areas of east Ukraine must have been
>> horrified at coming under lethal attack by their supposed brothers from
>> across the border.
>
> I think in 2014 they were horrified - now it is not so much of a
> surprise. Much as in this round Putin has done more to bring NATO and
> the EU together than decades of peace, in 2014 he did more for unifying
> Ukrainians than any Ukrainian politician ever managed. The first time
> I ever visited Kharkiv (then Kharkov, of course,) I asked if anybody
> there spoke Ukrainian - I received a look as if I was crazy and was
> told (verbatim quote) "only crazy nationalists speak Ukrainian".
>
> After 2014, they were all attending Ukrainian language classes.
>
> Kharkiv was actually a great disappointment for the Russians back then
> - there *were* genuine splits in the country between Ukrainian and
> Russian speaking parts. Kharkov was expected to be on the Russian side
> - the mayor was pro-Russia and had visions of being the first president
> of the new Kharkov Republic much as happened in Donetsk and Luhansk.
> Unfortunately he discovered fairly rapidly that me had majorly
> misjudged the mood of the population - he fled to Turkey for a little
> while while the people roundly kicked the arse of Putin's little green
> men (I was 'fortunate' enough to be there at the time, and can
> personally vouch for the presence of 'holidaying' Russian troops) and
> returned a born-again Ukrainian. What pro-Russian sentiment existed
> before 2014 evaporated with that invasion, and the intervening years
> have really solidified Ukraine as an independent state, even in the
> Russian-speaking areas.
>
>>
>> Having not received the friendly welcome they were expecting in eastern
>> Ukraine, it looks like the Russians are reducing their demands, but they're
>> still completely unrealistic. It looks like Russia will soon be defaulting
>> on its debts, so I wonder how long it'll be able to fund this expensive,
>> stalled war?
>
> The Russian expectation of a friendly welcome is a most baffling thing.
> The Russian *people* are completely brainwashed, to a terrifying
> degree, we all knew that. But it really starts to appear that the
> Russian *leadership* have started believing their own propaganda - that
> is the surprising thing.

Putin and his siloviki inner circle have been so dominant for so long that
no-one with any sense would tell them anything that contradicted their
world view. The FSB on the ground apparently submitted accurate appraisals
of the situation which got completely distorted as the reports were passed
up the layers of senior management. By the time they got to Putin they were
exactly in line with his views.

>
>>
>> I wonder if the men you worked with in Ukraine have now joined up to fight
>> as partisans?
>
> A few are in local militias, some have joined the official Territorial
> Defence Forces. I fear for the latter most of all - there is no
> guarantee they stay where they are safe in L'viv, they may be posted
> anywhere in the country they are needed. My "right hand man" in L'viv,
> an exceptionally good software engineer, has spent the last week
> training as a sniper...

I'd have thought they'd have roles more suited to software engineers, such
as hacking the Russian military? I know one group of Anonymous backers
managed to infiltrated real news reports on to Russian state TV.

>
>>
>>>
>>>> Anyway, I'm glad you weren't trapped the wrong side of a suddenly closed
>>>> border.
>>>
>>> Indeed, thank you, I appreciate that. My closest friend managed to
>>> get his ex-wife and daughter across the border and they are now
>>> safely here in Bucharest; we set up a daycare facility for our
>>> employees' evacuated kids in our offices here and I have to say
>>> the resilience of children is one of the few glimmers of hope in
>>> the world. They are holding up better than their parents on the
>>> whole.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, but I wonder if they'll have bad dreams in later life?
>>
>> It's very impressive how the countries of western and central Europe have
>> welcomed the millions of refugees who have suddenly been forced out by
>> Russia. Unfortunately, Britain's record has been rather less impressive.
>
> Indeed. The Romanian government is usually a watchword for
> incompetence, but to be fair to them they have moved quickly and
> competently; supported by the population mobilising very quickly to
> help - partly out of a general national pride in providing hospitality,
> but also out of a strong sense of "there but by the grace of God go
> we". Nobody believes Putin will stop there if he succeeds in Ukraine.
>
> By way of illustration, while some were suggesting Ukrainian refugees
> could pick fruit, the Romanian government quickly produced and
> distributed these:
> https://www.gov.ro/fisiere/impreuna_ajutam_mai_mult/Brosura-A5-ENG.pdf
>
> Under normal circumstances the phrase "you will be protected by the
> Romanian state" would attract little more than a hollow laugh, but in
> these times - that simple first sentence is exactly what people needed
> to hear. You don't need to be rich and powerful to offer solace at
> times like this, you just need to have a heart.
>
>
> In the interests of balance though - notwithstanding things like the
> fruit picking visa comments, which were just disgraceful - the UK's
> reputation remains good in Ukraine (and indeed Romania); the provision
> of large quantities of what the Ukrainians actually need right now -
> arms - is recognised and appreciated by the Ukrainians. Actually, you
> could even say there is a rare of example of all of Europe playing to
> its strengths - the poorer, neighbouring countries have stepped up in
> the humanitarian relief. The richer western European countries have
> gone further than many dreamed possible in inflicting economic damage
> on Russia (indeed, for the first time I am starting to think Brexit
> maybe wasn't a bad thing - EU decision making has been swifter and
> stronger without the need to balance Londongrad's needs). And the UK
> has been stronger than the continent on the provision of arms/direct
> support to the military. It is difficult to judge anyone too
> negatively.
>

Yes, good point.

MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 09/03/2022 22:06, Recliner wrote:
>> It's very impressive how the countries of western and central Europe have
>> welcomed the millions of refugees who have suddenly been forced out by
>> Russia. Unfortunately, Britain's record has been rather less impressive.
>
> How many Ugandan Asian refugees did Germany take in? How many Hong Kong
> Chinese?
>
>

Priti Patel plans new visas to boost Ukranian refugee numbers

<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a9d22f78-9fe4-11ec-a33b-e5ebed659a52?shareToken=ab05eb10a28a645a54e2bf94d321087b>

On 10/03/2022 09:33, Recliner wrote:
> MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>> On 09/03/2022 22:06, Recliner wrote:
>>> It's very impressive how the countries of western and central Europe have
>>> welcomed the millions of refugees who have suddenly been forced out by
>>> Russia. Unfortunately, Britain's record has been rather less impressive.
>>
>> How many Ugandan Asian refugees did Germany take in? How many Hong Kong
>> Chinese?
>>
>>
>
>
> Priti Patel plans new visas to boost Ukranian refugee numbers
>
> <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a9d22f78-9fe4-11ec-a33b-e5ebed659a52?shareToken=ab05eb10a28a645a54e2bf94d321087b>
>

From 3 to 4?

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 09/03/2022 22:06, Recliner wrote:
>> It's very impressive how the countries of western and central Europe have
>> welcomed the millions of refugees who have suddenly been forced out by
>> Russia. Unfortunately, Britain's record has been rather less impressive.
>
> How many Ugandan Asian refugees did Germany take in? How many Hong Kong
> Chinese?
>
>
>

Arguably the conditions leading to that were created by Britain over its
years of Colonisation
and having created the situation it was Britains responsibility to deal
with them.
With the Ugandan Asians the Tories in power at the time did their utmost to
persuade other members of the Commonweath to accommodate them instead but
to little avail so they were hardly welcomed here with open arms whatever
view your blue tinted glasses give you.

And approximately 60,000 is a lot less than the numbers who have already
crossed from Ukraine into the bordering countries.

I do think the UK has to be a bit careful on admissions.
We already know that is the intended destination of many from different
parts of the world and just the numbers crossing the channel in rubber
boats over last year and this won’t be far off the numbers of the Ugandans
, an issue that this government hasn’t found quite so easy to deal with
despite appointing a Rottweiler as home secretary.
Its almost a certainty that the criminals who organise such crossings will
already be trying to feed them in as refugees from Ukrania and we do need
to do some checks.

GH

On 10/03/2022 11:24, Marland wrote:
> MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>> On 09/03/2022 22:06, Recliner wrote:
>>> It's very impressive how the countries of western and central Europe have
>>> welcomed the millions of refugees who have suddenly been forced out by
>>> Russia. Unfortunately, Britain's record has been rather less impressive.
>>
>> How many Ugandan Asian refugees did Germany take in? How many Hong Kong
>> Chinese?
>>
>>
>>
>
> Arguably the conditions leading to that were created by Britain over its
> years of Colonisation
> and having created the situation it was Britains responsibility to deal
> with them.
> With the Ugandan Asians the Tories in power at the time did their utmost to
> persuade other members of the Commonweath to accommodate them instead but
> to little avail so they were hardly welcomed here with open arms whatever
> view your blue tinted glasses give you.

We gave them British passports and told them they were citizens of the
United Kingdom. Then tried to renege on the deal.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 10/03/2022 11:26, Graeme Wall wrote:
> We gave them British passports and told them they were citizens of the
> United Kingdom. Then tried to renege on the deal.

There was one of Ugandan Asians on the radio yesterday and she seemed to
be praising the help they got at the time.

I suppose we were lucky in still having lots of old army camps to use.

On Wed, 09 Mar 2022 08:24:32 -0800, Nobody <jock@soccer.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 9 Mar 2022 11:25:05 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
><recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>>> There is a clip of a Russian armoured train on Twitter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://twitter.com/historicfirearm/status/1501244788384931852
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Bleedin Taggers will mark anything nowadays.
>>>>
>>>> The 'Z' symbol has become the new swastika.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> True, but I wonder if the West had a campaign to reclaim it as the Mark of
>>> Zorro could be fun,
>>> Zorros fictional attributes strangely mirror much of those that Putin
>>> attributes to himself and his actions but being ridiculed as a fictional
>>> comedic cowboy character might annoy him in the way Charlie Chaplin annoyed
>>> Hitler.
>>
>>There's a more relevant, effective Z character to associate the symbol
>>with:
>>
>><https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/780b73ca-9f1a-11ec-b38e-10b333e9179b?shareToken=0c09f84a7a2b145fdec698108a941f79>
>
>With an uncanny resemblance to Mr Bean/Rowan Atkinson as well...

Well, he was a comic actor, whose back catalogue is getting an international airing.

In message <j8u5enF4qtoU1@mid.individual.net>, at 11:24:07 on Thu, 10
Mar 2022, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:

>I do think the UK has to be a bit careful on admissions.
>We already know that is the intended destination of many from different
>parts of the world and just the numbers crossing the channel in rubber
>boats over last year and this won’t be far off the numbers of the Ugandans
>, an issue that this government hasn’t found quite so easy to deal with
>despite appointing a Rottweiler as home secretary.

>Its almost a certainty that the criminals who organise such crossings will
>already be trying to feed them in as refugees from Ukrania and we do need
>to do some checks.

They appear to be relenting, and proposing to fast-track applications
from refugees who can actually produce a Ukranian ID card or passport.

These secondary borders, such as we have with France at Calais, are a
slightly different matter than those from (say) Ukraine to Moldova,
where not very many prospective migrants from the rest of the world
will first head for Ukraine in order to get lost in that crowd.
--
Roland Perry

Am 10.03.2022 um 13:46 schrieb Roland Perry:
> In message <j8u5enF4qtoU1@mid.individual.net>, at 11:24:07 on Thu, 10
> Mar 2022, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>
>> I do think the UK has to be a bit careful on admissions.
>> We already know that is the intended destination of many from different
>> parts of the world and just the numbers crossing the channel in rubber
>> boats over last year and this won’t be far off the numbers of the
>> Ugandans
>> , an issue that this government hasn’t found quite so easy to deal with
>> despite appointing a Rottweiler as home secretary.
>
>> Its almost a certainty that the criminals who organise such crossings
>> will
>> already be trying to feed them in as refugees from Ukrania and we do need
>> to do some checks.
>
> They appear to be relenting, and proposing to fast-track applications
> from refugees who can actually produce a Ukranian ID card or passport.
>
> These secondary borders, such as we have with France at Calais, are a
> slightly different matter than those from (say) Ukraine to Moldova,
> where not very many prospective migrants from the rest of the world
> will first head for Ukraine in order to get lost in that crowd.

Of the "primary" borders, most amazingly the Hungarian border was most
welcome for non-white refugees (e.g. the 10s of thousand African and
Indian -mostly medical- students from Charkiv ND Kiev Universities).
If all goes well, they'll be able to finish their degrees in Europe
before going back to their home countries.

In message <t0d2te$s8j$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:45:01 on Thu, 10 Mar
2022, Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> remarked:
>Am 10.03.2022 um 13:46 schrieb Roland Perry:
>> In message <j8u5enF4qtoU1@mid.individual.net>, at 11:24:07 on Thu, 10
>>Mar 2022, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>
>>> I do think the UK has to be a bit careful on admissions.
>>> We already know that is the intended destination of many from different
>>> parts of the world and just the numbers crossing the channel in rubber
>>> boats over last year and this won’t be far off the numbers of the
>>>Ugandans
>>> , an issue that this government hasn’t found quite so easy to deal with
>>> despite appointing a Rottweiler as home secretary.
>>
>>> Its almost a certainty that the criminals who organise such
>>>crossings will already be trying to feed them in as refugees from
>>>Ukrania and we do need to do some checks.

>> They appear to be relenting, and proposing to fast-track
>>applications from refugees who can actually produce a Ukranian ID
>>card or passport.

>> These secondary borders, such as we have with France at Calais, are
>>a slightly different matter than those from (say) Ukraine to Moldova,
>>where not very many prospective migrants from the rest of the world
>> will first head for Ukraine in order to get lost in that crowd.
>
>Of the "primary" borders, most amazingly the Hungarian border was most
>welcome for non-white refugees (e.g. the 10s of thousand African and
>Indian -mostly medical- students from Charkiv ND Kiev Universities).
>If all goes well, they'll be able to finish their degrees in Europe
>before going back to their home countries.

I'm assuming most of those students will have documentation, which
perhaps today's poster child for Home Office 'failings', a 92yr old
granny, might not.
--
Roland Perry

On 09/03/2022 22:06, Recliner wrote:
> It's very impressive how the countries of western and central Europe have
> welcomed the millions of refugees who have suddenly been forced out by
> Russia. Unfortunately, Britain's record has been rather less impressive.

On the other hand, Britain has been providing practical if less
photogenic support, while some European countries get praised despite
refusing to do so.

--
Arthur Figgis

On 10/03/2022 08:55, Rolf Mantel wrote:

> On the way back from my skiing holidays in Salzburg, suddenly the
> memories from our way back from holidays in 2015 came up without any
> direct trigger other than the railway station building.  5 minutes
> later, we had an unscheduled 30-minute stop in Freilassing, for a "full
> train" passport check on entering Germany: they let everybody in but
> want to register everybody on entry.

When I did the crossing from Salzburg a few years ago the Germans only
checked the papers of one person in my coach. I guess they wanted to ask
him about the holiday where he had got such a sun tan.

--
Arthur Figgis