On 05/03/2022 09:03, Graham Harrison wrote:
> Are the trains from China still running through to Europe and the UK?
>
> (Yes, I know, transloading etc. but you get the idea, I hope).

The best way at this point is to go via Urumqi into Kazakhstan, from
where you shipments can go either to Aktau or into Turkmenistan via
Zhanaozen.

In either case, containers would load onto ships for Baku, from where
they would travel via the Baku-Tbilisi-Kars line into western Turkey,
and then onwards to Europe.

This would require reloading of containers at the Kazakh-Chinese border,
reloading at each end of the Caspian as well as reloading at the
Georgian-Turkish border.

I know that there is a rail connection into Iran via Ashgabat, but I
don't know how feasible that is.

hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote on 09/03/2022 :
> On 05/03/2022 09:03, Graham Harrison wrote:
>> Are the trains from China still running through to Europe and the UK?
>>
>> (Yes, I know, transloading etc. but you get the idea, I hope).
>
> The best way at this point is to go via Urumqi into Kazakhstan, from where
> you shipments can go either to Aktau or into Turkmenistan via Zhanaozen.
>
> In either case, containers would load onto ships for Baku, from where they
> would travel via the Baku-Tbilisi-Kars line into western Turkey, and then
> onwards to Europe.
>
> This would require reloading of containers at the Kazakh-Chinese border,
> reloading at each end of the Caspian as well as reloading at the
> Georgian-Turkish border.
>
> I know that there is a rail connection into Iran via Ashgabat, but I don't
> know how feasible that is.

Perfectly feasible, border point Turkmenistan/Iran is in Sarakhs, in
the north/east corner of Iran, but the lake Van crossing in Turkey will
severely limit the route capacity.

--
Marc Van Dyck

Nobody presented the following explanation :
>
> There'd be multiple swappings for gauge-change into/out of Iran, if
> traffic went back north into Azerbaijan.
>
No need for that. One transloading at the Turkmen/Iranian border
(Sarakhs) and then it's UIC gauge all the way via Turkey.

--
Marc Van Dyck

On 09/03/2022 16:49, Marc Van Dyck wrote:
> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote on 09/03/2022 :
>> On 05/03/2022 09:03, Graham Harrison wrote:
>>> Are the trains from China still running through to Europe and the UK?
>>>
>>> (Yes, I know, transloading etc. but you get the idea, I hope).
>>
>> The best way at this point is to go via Urumqi into Kazakhstan, from
>> where you shipments can go either to Aktau or into Turkmenistan via
>> Zhanaozen.
>>
>> In either case, containers would load onto ships for Baku, from where
>> they would travel via the Baku-Tbilisi-Kars line into western Turkey,
>> and then onwards to Europe.
>>
>> This would require reloading of containers at the Kazakh-Chinese
>> border, reloading at each end of the Caspian as well as reloading at
>> the Georgian-Turkish border.
>>
>> I know that there is a rail connection into Iran via Ashgabat, but I
>> don't know how feasible that is.
>
> Perfectly feasible, border point Turkmenistan/Iran is in Sarakhs, in
> the north/east corner of Iran, but the lake Van crossing in Turkey will
> severely limit the route capacity.
>
That, and the fact that UN and US sanctions against Iran might not be
helpful.

On 09/03/2022 16:57, Marc Van Dyck wrote:
> Nobody presented the following explanation :
>>
>> There'd be multiple swappings for gauge-change into/out of Iran, if
>> traffic went back north into Azerbaijan.
> No need for that. One transloading at the Turkmen/Iranian border
> (Sarakhs) and then it's UIC gauge all the way via Turkey.
>
>
>
Don't forget, however, the transloading on the Kazakh-Chinese border.

On 09/03/2022 18:09, Nobody wrote:
> On Wed, 09 Mar 2022 17:57:21 +0100, Marc Van Dyck
> <marc.gr.vandyck@invalid.skynet.be> wrote:
>
>> Nobody presented the following explanation :
>>>
>>> There'd be multiple swappings for gauge-change into/out of Iran, if
>>> traffic went back north into Azerbaijan.
>>>
>> No need for that. One transloading at the Turkmen/Iranian border
>> (Sarakhs) and then it's UIC gauge all the way via Turkey.
>
> I did type "if" traffic went back north (meaning conversion back to
> Russian gauge for the ride across Azerbaijan and Georgia), as a way to
> maintain rail-only movement.
>
> The standard gauge into Turkey as we both noted has the not-so-tiny
> problem of crossing Lake Van.

Hence, crossing the Caspian and travelling via the Baku-Tibili-Kars into
Turkey appears to be the truly workable option.

I believe that some of the vessels on Lake Van can carry rail cars,
though I don't know what kind.

Passenger rail cars are one thing as they are relatively light, but I
wonder about the concept of carrying heavy containers and if it would
potentially upset ballast.

Double-stacked rail cars could present even more problems -- assuming
that they even have clearance on the vessels plying the lake.

hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk formulated on Wednesday :
>
> Hence, crossing the Caspian and travelling via the Baku-Tibili-Kars into
> Turkey appears to be the truly workable option.
>
Not even sure of that, as the total capacity of the caspian crossing is
not that high. And I don't believe that those ferries can take rail
vehicles.

> I believe that some of the vessels on Lake Van can carry rail cars, though I
> don't know what kind.
>
Have been there and done the crossing. Only the baggage van of the
train
is loaded on the ferry, not the passenger cars. Those coming from
Ankara
are limited to Tatvan, passengers embark on foot, and an Iranian train
takes the passenger, and the baggage van, as of Van on the other shore
of the lake, to Tabriz and Tehran.

> Passenger rail cars are one thing as they are relatively light, but I wonder
> about the concept of carrying heavy containers and if it would potentially
> upset ballast.
>
When I was there, only the baggage van was loaded, all other space was
occupied by freight cars. But the capacity is quite limited, 3 tracks
with max 4 cars on each. There are two vessels, and the crossing takes
6 hours. That's a very limited capacity. Containers are usually not
that
heavy, so weight is not really an issue.

> Double-stacked rail cars could present even more problems -- assuming that
> they even have clearance on the vessels plying the lake.

Double stack only exists in US anyway. Not enough clearance to do that
in ex USSR countries. Only India ran a demonstrator train with double
stacked containers under OHLE.

--
Marc Van Dyck

On 10/03/2022 16:29, Marc Van Dyck wrote:
> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk formulated on Wednesday :
>>
>> Hence, crossing the Caspian and travelling via the Baku-Tibili-Kars
>> into Turkey appears to be the truly workable option.
>>
> Not even sure of that, as the total capacity of the caspian crossing is
> not that high. And I don't believe that those ferries can take rail
> vehicles.

I did not think that ships there took rail cars, thus requiring
transloading.

>
>> I believe that some of the vessels on Lake Van can carry rail cars,
>> though I don't know what kind.
>>
> Have been there and done the crossing.

Very interesting. London to Tehran, perchance?

> Only the baggage van of the train
> is loaded on the ferry, not the passenger cars. Those coming from Ankara
> are limited to Tatvan, passengers embark on foot, and an Iranian train
> takes the passenger, and the baggage van, as of Van on the other shore
> of the lake, to Tabriz and Tehran.

Interesting to know as I was unsure of how they do things over there.

>> Passenger rail cars are one thing as they are relatively light, but I
>> wonder about the concept of carrying heavy containers and if it would
>> potentially upset ballast.
>>
> When I was there, only the baggage van was loaded, all other space was
> occupied by freight cars. But the capacity is quite limited, 3 tracks
> with max 4 cars on each. There are two vessels, and the crossing takes
> 6 hours. That's a very limited capacity. Containers are usually not that
> heavy, so weight is not really an issue.

They are not heavy because any excessive weight could stress the box
itself?

>
>> Double-stacked rail cars could present even more problems -- assuming
>> that they even have clearance on the vessels plying the lake.
>
> Double stack only exists in US anyway.

Noted.

On Thu, 10 Mar 2022 17:29:34 +0100, Marc Van Dyck
<marc.gr.vandyck@invalid.skynet.be> wrote:

>hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk formulated on Wednesday :

>> Double-stacked rail cars could present even more problems -- assuming that
>> they even have clearance on the vessels plying the lake.
>
>Double stack only exists in US anyway.

And Canaduh.

On Thu, 10 Mar 2022 15:25:16 -0800, Nobody <jock@soccer.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 10 Mar 2022 17:29:34 +0100, Marc Van Dyck
><marc.gr.vandyck@invalid.skynet.be> wrote:
>
>>hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk formulated on Wednesday :
>
>>> Double-stacked rail cars could present even more problems -- assuming that
>>> they even have clearance on the vessels plying the lake.
>>
>>Double stack only exists in US anyway.
>
>And Canaduh.

Spelled c, N, D...

C, eh, N, eh, D, eh

On 10/03/2022 16:29, Marc Van Dyck wrote:
> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk formulated on Wednesday :
>>
>> Hence, crossing the Caspian and travelling via the Baku-Tibili-Kars
>> into Turkey appears to be the truly workable option.
>>
> Not even sure of that, as the total capacity of the caspian crossing is
> not that high. And I don't believe that those ferries can take rail
> vehicles.

https://www.bairdmaritime.com/work-boat-world/passenger-vessel-world/ro-pax/vessel-review-azerbaijan-first-in-series-of-new-russian-designed-caspian-sea-rail-ferries/

--
Arthur Figgis

On Thu, 10 Mar 2022 17:38:14 -0600, Christopher A. Lee
<c.lee@fairpoint.net> wrote:

>On Thu, 10 Mar 2022 15:25:16 -0800, Nobody <jock@soccer.com> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 10 Mar 2022 17:29:34 +0100, Marc Van Dyck
>><marc.gr.vandyck@invalid.skynet.be> wrote:
>>
>>>hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk formulated on Wednesday :
>>
>>>> Double-stacked rail cars could present even more problems -- assuming that
>>>> they even have clearance on the vessels plying the lake.
>>>
>>>Double stack only exists in US anyway.
>>
>>And Canaduh.
>
>Spelled c, N, D...
>
>C, eh, N, eh, D, eh

Spelled? <g> It is spelt...

At least "we" as Canucks allow ourselves to poke fun at each other, an
attribute seemingly lacking around the world recently.

Next you'll be telling me (as a Brit Columbian) that I hafta believe
an Ontari-ari-ari-an's label of my living in a hoess... dunno howse
that might happen.

<chortle>

In message <t0dpgg$14qt$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 21:10:39 on Thu, 10 Mar
2022, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk" <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:

>>> Passenger rail cars are one thing as they are relatively light, but
>>>I wonder about the concept of carrying heavy containers and if it
>>>would potentially upset ballast.
>>>
>> When I was there, only the baggage van was loaded, all other space was
>> occupied by freight cars. But the capacity is quite limited, 3 tracks
>> with max 4 cars on each. There are two vessels, and the crossing takes
>> 6 hours. That's a very limited capacity. Containers are usually not that
>> heavy, so weight is not really an issue.
>
>They are not heavy because any excessive weight could stress the box
>itself?

Because at least part of their journey will be using road transport, and
that has its own regime of weight limits.
--
Roland Perry

On 11/03/2022 10:25 am, Nobody wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Mar 2022 17:29:34 +0100, Marc Van Dyck
> <marc.gr.vandyck@invalid.skynet.be> wrote:
>
>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk formulated on Wednesday :
>>> Double-stacked rail cars could present even more problems -- assuming that
>>> they even have clearance on the vessels plying the lake.
>> Double stack only exists in US anyway.
> And Canaduh.
And Australia.

hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote on 10/03/2022 :
> On 10/03/2022 16:29, Marc Van Dyck wrote:
>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk formulated on Wednesday :
>>>
>>> Hence, crossing the Caspian and travelling via the Baku-Tibili-Kars into
>>> Turkey appears to be the truly workable option.
>>>
>> Not even sure of that, as the total capacity of the caspian crossing is
>> not that high. And I don't believe that those ferries can take rail
>> vehicles.
>
> I did not think that ships there took rail cars, thus requiring transloading.
>
>>
>>> I believe that some of the vessels on Lake Van can carry rail cars, though
>>> I don't know what kind.
>>>
>> Have been there and done the crossing.
>
> Very interesting. London to Tehran, perchance?
>
Brussels to Tehran, 2009. And within Iran, also Kerman - Mashhad and
Mashhad - Tehran. Back by plane, as I could not afford the 5th week
of vacation in a row needed to come back by train.

--
Marc Van Dyck