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aus+uk / uk.railway / Re: The "Infinity Train"

SubjectAuthor
* The "Infinity Train"Alan
+* The "Infinity Train"martin.coffee
|+* The "Infinity Train"Certes
||+- The "Infinity Train"Sam Wilson
||`- The "Infinity Train"Bob
|`* The "Infinity Train"Christopher A. Lee
| `- The "Infinity Train"Recliner
+- The "Infinity Train"Jeremy Double
`- The "Infinity Train"Anna Noyd-Dryver

1
Re: The "Infinity Train"

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From: ala...@darkroom.+.com (Alan)
Subject: Re: The "Infinity Train"
Newsgroups: uk.railway
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 by: Alan - Tue, 8 Mar 2022 17:06 UTC

On Tue, 08 Mar 2022 16:21:26 +0000, Graham Harrison wrote:

> A company is developing a so-called electric Infinity Train that will
> never need charging.

They have broken the laws of physics then if they can do that.
Which I very much doubt.
No type of propulsion used on land has ever been 100% efficient, so even
if the gradient up equals the gradient down, the machine cannot recharge
its batteries on the way down fully, as losses will take around 10% of
the energy used, probably a bit more if friction brakes are used.

Re: The "Infinity Train"

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From: martin.c...@round-midnight.org.uk
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: The "Infinity Train"
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2022 17:14:59 +0000
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 by: martin.c...@round-midnight.org.uk - Tue, 8 Mar 2022 17:14 UTC

On 08/03/2022 17:06, Alan wrote:
> On Tue, 08 Mar 2022 16:21:26 +0000, Graham Harrison wrote:
>
>> A company is developing a so-called electric Infinity Train that will
>> never need charging.
>
> They have broken the laws of physics then if they can do that.
> Which I very much doubt.
> No type of propulsion used on land has ever been 100% efficient, so even
> if the gradient up equals the gradient down, the machine cannot recharge
> its batteries on the way down fully, as losses will take around 10% of
> the energy used, probably a bit more if friction brakes are used.

The train will be fully laden downhill and ECS uphill so 100% efficiency
is not needed.

Re: The "Infinity Train"

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From: non...@nowhere.net (Certes)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: The "Infinity Train"
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2022 17:53:25 +0000
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 by: Certes - Tue, 8 Mar 2022 17:53 UTC

On 08/03/2022 17:14, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
> On 08/03/2022 17:06, Alan wrote:
>> On Tue, 08 Mar 2022 16:21:26 +0000, Graham Harrison wrote:
>>
>>> A company is developing a so-called electric Infinity Train that will
>>> never need charging.
>>
>> They have broken the laws of physics then if they can do that.
>> Which I very much doubt.
>> No type of propulsion used on land has ever been 100% efficient, so even
>> if the gradient up equals the gradient down, the machine cannot recharge
>> its batteries on the way down fully, as losses will take around 10% of
>> the energy used, probably a bit more if friction brakes are used.
>
> The train will be fully laden downhill and ECS uphill so 100% efficiency
> is not needed.

Some industrial railways used full wagons coasting down from the hills
to haul empties back from the port with no external means of propulsion.
I expect the method could be made to work with batteries in principle,
and perhaps in practice.

Re: The "Infinity Train"

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From: ukr...@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk (Sam Wilson)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: The "Infinity Train"
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2022 17:56:00 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Sam Wilson - Tue, 8 Mar 2022 17:56 UTC

Certes <none@nowhere.net> wrote:
> On 08/03/2022 17:14, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>> On 08/03/2022 17:06, Alan wrote:
>>> On Tue, 08 Mar 2022 16:21:26 +0000, Graham Harrison wrote:
>>>
>>>> A company is developing a so-called electric Infinity Train that will
>>>> never need charging.
>>>
>>> They have broken the laws of physics then if they can do that.
>>> Which I very much doubt.
>>> No type of propulsion used on land has ever been 100% efficient, so even
>>> if the gradient up equals the gradient down, the machine cannot recharge
>>> its batteries on the way down fully, as losses will take around 10% of
>>> the energy used, probably a bit more if friction brakes are used.
>>
>> The train will be fully laden downhill and ECS uphill so 100% efficiency
>> is not needed.
>
> Some industrial railways used full wagons coasting down from the hills
> to haul empties back from the port with no external means of propulsion.
> I expect the method could be made to work with batteries in principle,
> and perhaps in practice.

Yes, they’ll be using the potential energy of the load to power the empty
return trip.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Re: The "Infinity Train"

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From: jmd.nos...@btinternet.com (Jeremy Double)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: The "Infinity Train"
Date: 8 Mar 2022 19:10:34 GMT
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 by: Jeremy Double - Tue, 8 Mar 2022 19:10 UTC

Alan <alan@darkroom.+.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 08 Mar 2022 16:21:26 +0000, Graham Harrison wrote:
>
>> A company is developing a so-called electric Infinity Train that will
>> never need charging.
>
> They have broken the laws of physics then if they can do that.
> Which I very much doubt.
> No type of propulsion used on land has ever been 100% efficient, so even
> if the gradient up equals the gradient down, the machine cannot recharge
> its batteries on the way down fully, as losses will take around 10% of
> the energy used, probably a bit more if friction brakes are used.

No problem with the first law of thermodynamics if they’re taking iron ore
downhill and empty trains back up to be refilled. The electricity to
charge the locos comes from the potential energy of the iron ore.

--
Jeremy Double

Re: The "Infinity Train"

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From: ema...@domain.com (Bob)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: The "Infinity Train"
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2022 20:14:43 +0100
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 by: Bob - Tue, 8 Mar 2022 19:14 UTC

On 2022-03-08 17:53:25 +0000, Certes said:

> On 08/03/2022 17:14, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>> On 08/03/2022 17:06, Alan wrote:
>>> On Tue, 08 Mar 2022 16:21:26 +0000, Graham Harrison wrote:
>>>
>>>> A company is developing a so-called electric Infinity Train that will
>>>> never need charging.
>>>
>>> They have broken the laws of physics then if they can do that.
>>> Which I very much doubt.
>>> No type of propulsion used on land has ever been 100% efficient, so even
>>> if the gradient up equals the gradient down, the machine cannot recharge
>>> its batteries on the way down fully, as losses will take around 10% of
>>> the energy used, probably a bit more if friction brakes are used.
>>
>> The train will be fully laden downhill and ECS uphill so 100%
>> efficiency is not needed.
>
> Some industrial railways used full wagons coasting down from the hills
> to haul empties back from the port with no external means of propulsion.
> I expect the method could be made to work with batteries in principle,
> and perhaps in practice.

See this video of a freigh haulage system that operates today on such a
principle

https://youtu.be/6RiYXI1Tfu4

Robin

Re: The "Infinity Train"

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NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2022 13:34:12 -0600
From: c.l...@fairpoint.net (Christopher A. Lee)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: The "Infinity Train"
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2022 13:34:08 -0600
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 by: Christopher A. Lee - Tue, 8 Mar 2022 19:34 UTC

On Tue, 8 Mar 2022 17:14:59 +0000, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk
wrote:

>On 08/03/2022 17:06, Alan wrote:
>> On Tue, 08 Mar 2022 16:21:26 +0000, Graham Harrison wrote:
>>
>>> A company is developing a so-called electric Infinity Train that will
>>> never need charging.
>>
>> They have broken the laws of physics then if they can do that.
>> Which I very much doubt.
>> No type of propulsion used on land has ever been 100% efficient, so even
>> if the gradient up equals the gradient down, the machine cannot recharge
>> its batteries on the way down fully, as losses will take around 10% of
>> the energy used, probably a bit more if friction brakes are used.
>
>The train will be fully laden downhill and ECS uphill so 100% efficiency
>is not needed.

Just like a water powered funicular.

Re: The "Infinity Train"

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From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: The "Infinity Train"
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2022 20:38:27 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Recliner - Tue, 8 Mar 2022 20:38 UTC

Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Mar 2022 17:14:59 +0000, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk
> wrote:
>
>> On 08/03/2022 17:06, Alan wrote:
>>> On Tue, 08 Mar 2022 16:21:26 +0000, Graham Harrison wrote:
>>>
>>>> A company is developing a so-called electric Infinity Train that will
>>>> never need charging.
>>>
>>> They have broken the laws of physics then if they can do that.
>>> Which I very much doubt.
>>> No type of propulsion used on land has ever been 100% efficient, so even
>>> if the gradient up equals the gradient down, the machine cannot recharge
>>> its batteries on the way down fully, as losses will take around 10% of
>>> the energy used, probably a bit more if friction brakes are used.
>>
>> The train will be fully laden downhill and ECS uphill so 100% efficiency
>> is not needed.
>
> Just like a water powered funicular.
>

Yes, exactly.

Re: The "Infinity Train"

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From: ann...@noyd-dryver.com (Anna Noyd-Dryver)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: The "Infinity Train"
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 07:56:25 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Anna Noyd-Dryver - Thu, 10 Mar 2022 07:56 UTC

Alan <alan@darkroom.+.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 08 Mar 2022 16:21:26 +0000, Graham Harrison wrote:
>
>> A company is developing a so-called electric Infinity Train that will
>> never need charging.
>
> They have broken the laws of physics then if they can do that.
> Which I very much doubt.
> No type of propulsion used on land has ever been 100% efficient, so even
> if the gradient up equals the gradient down, the machine cannot recharge
> its batteries on the way down fully, as losses will take around 10% of
> the energy used, probably a bit more if friction brakes are used.
>

The load carried is all downhill. The uphill trains are empty wagons.

A similar concept operates unpowered cableways from quarries in Cumbria
(there's a Tom Scott video) and Switzerland; and we've discussed in the
past, a (Swiss?) quarry which achieves the same using battery-powered
tipper trucks.

Indeed, water-balance funiculars work on the same basic principle. As did
slate quarry inclines.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

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