I watch quite a bit of the cricket that's broadcast over the winter,
most of it not featuring the England team. The commentators are
usually not English (apart from Isa Guha being a fixture in Australian
comm boxes) and are definitely not primarily serving English
audiences.

People used to complain that English players had little opportunity
during the winter. Now it's completely the opposite. English players
are treated like royalty: when some young English player turns up in
the CPL or BBL, the commentators start off with the assumption that
he's going to be a bit special. Rather as we used to do when a new WI
fast bowler turned up as a county's overseas player.

And there are players in big demand who aren't even within shouting
distance of being selected for England. Benny Howell (although he was
born in France) has about 18 different slower balls and takes wickets
for fun, but such are England's resources that he wouldn't make a
second XI without an injury epidemic.

And while traditionalist sceptics here worry themselves stupid about
how the Test team aren't playing proper Test cricket, the rest of the
world is looking on with something approaching awe. Veterans of SR
Waugh's Australian teams are enthusiastic about a team playing Test
cricket as it should be played, and commentators on other bilateral
Test series keep referring to England players as benchmarks.

(cue Nasti Chestikov pathetically drivelling about chest-puffing)

Since I'm old enough to remember when England were a joke and their
players were hardly respected at home, let alone abroad, it's rather a
welcome change. These things go in cycles, so it won't be all that
long before some other country becomes flavour of the moment, but it's
worth enjoying while it lasts.

Cheers,

Mike

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 2:47:54 PM UTC, Mike Holmans wrote:
> I watch quite a bit of the cricket that's broadcast over the winter,
> most of it not featuring the England team. The commentators are
> usually not English (apart from Isa Guha being a fixture in Australian
> comm boxes) and are definitely not primarily serving English
> audiences.
>
> People used to complain that English players had little opportunity
> during the winter. Now it's completely the opposite. English players
> are treated like royalty: when some young English player turns up in
> the CPL or BBL, the commentators start off with the assumption that
> he's going to be a bit special. Rather as we used to do when a new WI
> fast bowler turned up as a county's overseas player.
>
> And there are players in big demand who aren't even within shouting
> distance of being selected for England. Benny Howell (although he was
> born in France) has about 18 different slower balls and takes wickets
> for fun, but such are England's resources that he wouldn't make a
> second XI without an injury epidemic.
>
> And while traditionalist sceptics here worry themselves stupid about
> how the Test team aren't playing proper Test cricket, the rest of the
> world is looking on with something approaching awe. Veterans of SR
> Waugh's Australian teams are enthusiastic about a team playing Test
> cricket as it should be played, and commentators on other bilateral
> Test series keep referring to England players as benchmarks.
>
> (cue Nasti Chestikov pathetically drivelling about chest-puffing)
>
> Since I'm old enough to remember when England were a joke and their
> players were hardly respected at home, let alone abroad, it's rather a
> welcome change. These things go in cycles, so it won't be all that
> long before some other country becomes flavour of the moment, but it's
> worth enjoying while it lasts.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Mike

Promoting the T20 abortion ,,,, RH

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 2:47:54 PM UTC, Mike Holmans wrote:
> I watch quite a bit of the cricket that's broadcast over the winter,
> most of it not featuring the England team. The commentators are
> usually not English (apart from Isa Guha being a fixture in Australian
> comm boxes) and are definitely not primarily serving English
> audiences.

i've only seen a few BBL matches this year, but i remember hearing
alison mitchell commentate i think last winter in oz. I was wondering
if the SA t20 matches are on somewhere becos most of the
england odi team are playing in it. Jofra took 3-27 on his comeback.

>
> People used to complain that English players had little opportunity
> during the winter. Now it's completely the opposite. English players
> are treated like royalty: when some young English player turns up in
> the CPL or BBL, the commentators start off with the assumption that
> he's going to be a bit special. Rather as we used to do when a new WI
> fast bowler turned up as a county's overseas player.

I'm not really a big fan of t20 but it has given players from all over
more opportunities and chances of continuous employment. certainly
it must be better that our cricketers are playing some sort of cricket
than nothing all winter. I spose in the past pre t20 some played grade
cricket in oz, and others played in nz and rsa, but most probably had
to look for other jobs or the dole in the 60s 70s & 80s.

>
> And there are players in big demand who aren't even within shouting
> distance of being selected for England. Benny Howell (although he was
> born in France) has about 18 different slower balls and takes wickets
> for fun, but such are England's resources that he wouldn't make a
> second XI without an injury epidemic.

agree about benny, he looks v talented chap, but he may end up just
being 1 of these t20 mercenaries, who pop up all over the t20 world.

>
> Since I'm old enough to remember when England were a joke and their
> players were hardly respected at home, let alone abroad, it's rather a
> welcome change. These things go in cycles, so it won't be all that
> long before some other country becomes flavour of the moment, but it's
> worth enjoying while it lasts.

yes indeed

mike

On Wed, 11 Jan 2023 07:57:23 -0800 (PST), mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

>On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 2:47:54 PM UTC, Mike Holmans wrote:
>> I watch quite a bit of the cricket that's broadcast over the winter,
>> most of it not featuring the England team. The commentators are
>> usually not English (apart from Isa Guha being a fixture in Australian
>> comm boxes) and are definitely not primarily serving English
>> audiences.
>
>i've only seen a few BBL matches this year, but i remember hearing
>alison mitchell commentate i think last winter in oz. I was wondering
>if the SA t20 matches are on somewhere becos most of the
>england odi team are playing in it. Jofra took 3-27 on his comeback.

They are on Sky. Archer's first over yesterday was extremely good. The
ILT20 starts in a couple of days, and that's on Zee in the UK. There
are loads of English players in both competitions.

>I'm not really a big fan of t20 but it has given players from all over
>more opportunities and chances of continuous employment. certainly
>it must be better that our cricketers are playing some sort of cricket
>than nothing all winter.

That they are playing the form of cricket which gives them the best
opportunity to develop their skills and become better players helps as
well.

The technical skills on display in top-level T20 are of almost
unbelievably high standard. It's no wonder that Ben Stokes regards the
IPL as the best preparation for England's Test batters.

Cheers,

Mike

On Wed, 11 Jan 2023 07:57:23 -0800 (PST), mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

>On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 2:47:54 PM UTC, Mike Holmans wrote:

>> And there are players in big demand who aren't even within shouting
>> distance of being selected for England. Benny Howell (although he was
>> born in France) has about 18 different slower balls and takes wickets
>> for fun, but such are England's resources that he wouldn't make a
>> second XI without an injury epidemic.
>
>agree about benny, he looks v talented chap, but he may end up just
>being 1 of these t20 mercenaries, who pop up all over the t20 world.

His talents aren't well suited to the red ball game. Where he's useful
is overs 8-16 in T20, when the batters are trying to get on with it
and he can get them to completely mistime their shots. Red ball
batters can pick and choose which balls to hit and can easily defend
anything they don't like the look of.

It's long past time that people stopped looking down their noses at
T20 as some inferior form of cricket. Some of the skills useful in T20
are pretty much irrelevant in Test cricket, and vice versa, but mostly
they reinforce each other.

Cheers,

Mike

On 11/01/2023 15:57, mike wrote:
> I'm not really a big fan of t20 but it has given players from all over
> more opportunities and chances of continuous employment. certainly
> it must be better that our cricketers are playing some sort of cricket
> than nothing all winter.

Indeed. I recall that Bruce French, in the mid-80s, at a time
when he was being touted as the next England WK, was thought to be very
lucky when Notts gave him employment during the winter. He was tasked
with painting the benches and fences in TB; which may have kept the
wolf from the door, but can't have done very much for his cricket.

A generation or so earlier, much the same applied to footballers,
and a little earlier than that it was normal, if not almost universal,
for professional sportsmen to die in poverty. Many became publicans on
the meagre lump sum they were given on retirement, and drank themselves
to death or similar. Luckily, times have changed.

--
Andy Walker, Nottingham.
Andy's music pages: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music
Composer of the day: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music/Composers/Liszt

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 9:15:34 PM UTC, Andy Walker wrote:
> On 11/01/2023 15:57, mike wrote:
> > I'm not really a big fan of t20 but it has given players from all over
> > more opportunities and chances of continuous employment. certainly
> > it must be better that our cricketers are playing some sort of cricket
> > than nothing all winter.
> Indeed. I recall that Bruce French, in the mid-80s, at a time
> when he was being touted as the next England WK, was thought to be very
> lucky when Notts gave him employment during the winter. He was tasked
> with painting the benches and fences in TB; which may have kept the
> wolf from the door, but can't have done very much for his cricket.
>
> A generation or so earlier, much the same applied to footballers,
> and a little earlier than that it was normal, if not almost universal,
> for professional sportsmen to die in poverty. Many became publicans on
> the meagre lump sum they were given on retirement, and drank themselves
> to death or similar. Luckily, times have changed.
>
> --
> Andy Walker, Nottingham.
> Andy's music pages: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music
> Composer of the day: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music/Composers/Liszt

Players from way back routinely took winter jobs, whether supplied by counties, benefactors of counties or simply jobs that were on the market. One of the causes of SF Barnes' leaving Lancashire was Lancs' refusal to find him a a winter job. There was also the option for quite a few of playing football professionally in the winter.,

A word on playing cricket in the winter. It is a mistake to imagine that there was little. Apart frown Test matches there were many openings in the Empire ranging from India princes hiring the likes of Maurice Tate to schools wanting English pros. Lastly, there were quite a few private tours funded by wealthy Englishmen.

RH

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 9:15:34 PM UTC, Andy Walker wrote:
> On 11/01/2023 15:57, mike wrote:
> > I'm not really a big fan of t20 but it has given players from all over
> > more opportunities and chances of continuous employment. certainly
> > it must be better that our cricketers are playing some sort of cricket
> > than nothing all winter.
> Indeed. I recall that Bruce French, in the mid-80s, at a time
> when he was being touted as the next England WK, was thought to be very
> lucky when Notts gave him employment during the winter. He was tasked
> with painting the benches and fences in TB; which may have kept the
> wolf from the door, but can't have done very much for his cricket.
>
> A generation or so earlier, much the same applied to footballers,
> and a little earlier than that it was normal, if not almost universal,
> for professional sportsmen to die in poverty. Many became publicans on
> the meagre lump sum they were given on retirement, and drank themselves
> to death or similar. Luckily, times have changed.

Benefits could be very lucrative. George Hirst received £3,500 in 1905 equivalent to £337,470 in today;'s money - see https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator RH

In message <d454fac5-09e9-4709-81ee-907187af5123n@googlegroups.com>,
Robert Henderson <anywhere156@gmail.com> writes
>On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 9:15:34 PM UTC, Andy Walker wrote:
>> On 11/01/2023 15:57, mike wrote:
>> > I'm not really a big fan of t20 but it has given players from all over
>> > more opportunities and chances of continuous employment. certainly
>> > it must be better that our cricketers are playing some sort of cricket
>> > than nothing all winter.
>> Indeed. I recall that Bruce French, in the mid-80s, at a time
>> when he was being touted as the next England WK, was thought to be very
>> lucky when Notts gave him employment during the winter. He was tasked
>> with painting the benches and fences in TB; which may have kept the
>> wolf from the door, but can't have done very much for his cricket.
>>
>> A generation or so earlier, much the same applied to footballers,
>> and a little earlier than that it was normal, if not almost universal,
>> for professional sportsmen to die in poverty. Many became publicans on
>> the meagre lump sum they were given on retirement, and drank themselves
>> to death or similar. Luckily, times have changed.
>
>Benefits could be very lucrative. George Hirst received £3,500 in 1905
>equivalent to £337,470 in today;'s money - see
>https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calc
>ulator RH

But only if you were a top player with one of the bigger counties. If
you were a run-of-the mill player with one of the smaller counties such
as Leicestershire, were unlucky with the weather for your benefit match,
or failed to have the ten-year or so career needed before you were given
a benefit, then it would be a very different story.
--
John Hall "Do you have cornflakes in America?"
"Well, actually, they're American."
"So what brings you to Britain then if you have cornflakes already?"
Bill Bryson: "Notes from a Small Island"

On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 2:16:40 PM UTC, John Hall wrote:
> In message <d454fac5-09e9-4709...@googlegroups.com>,
> Robert Henderson <anywh...@gmail.com> writes
> >On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 9:15:34 PM UTC, Andy Walker wrote:
> >> On 11/01/2023 15:57, mike wrote:
> >> > I'm not really a big fan of t20 but it has given players from all over
> >> > more opportunities and chances of continuous employment. certainly
> >> > it must be better that our cricketers are playing some sort of cricket
> >> > than nothing all winter.
> >> Indeed. I recall that Bruce French, in the mid-80s, at a time
> >> when he was being touted as the next England WK, was thought to be very
> >> lucky when Notts gave him employment during the winter. He was tasked
> >> with painting the benches and fences in TB; which may have kept the
> >> wolf from the door, but can't have done very much for his cricket.
> >>
> >> A generation or so earlier, much the same applied to footballers,
> >> and a little earlier than that it was normal, if not almost universal,
> >> for professional sportsmen to die in poverty. Many became publicans on
> >> the meagre lump sum they were given on retirement, and drank themselves
> >> to death or similar. Luckily, times have changed.
> >
> >Benefits could be very lucrative. George Hirst received £3,500 in 1905
> >equivalent to £337,470 in today;'s money - see
> >https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calc
> >ulator RH
> But only if you were a top player with one of the bigger counties. If
> you were a run-of-the mill player with one of the smaller counties such
> as Leicestershire, were unlucky with the weather for your benefit match,
> or failed to have the ten-year or so career needed before you were given
> a benefit, then it would be a very different story.
> --
> John Hall "Do you have cornflakes in America?"
> "Well, actually, they're American."
> "So what brings you to Britain then if you have cornflakes already?"
> Bill Bryson: "Notes from a Small Island"

I would not exclude long serving players from even the weakest counties having decent befits.
.. Even if a long serving player only had a benefit of £1,000 or even £500 in the early 1900s they would still get a decent wad of money.

A couple of other points: it was a common practice of the members of a county which had awarded a benefit to start the ball rolling by making a decent donation .

The other point is the hat was regularly passed round during a benefit season. It might well go round several dozen times in seasons with 28 or even 32 matches CC matches . RH

On Thu, 12 Jan 2023 14:07:52 +0000, John Hall
<john_nospam@jhall.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <d454fac5-09e9-4709-81ee-907187af5123n@googlegroups.com>,
>Robert Henderson <anywhere156@gmail.com> writes
>>On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 9:15:34 PM UTC, Andy Walker wrote:
>>> A generation or so earlier, much the same applied to footballers,
>>> and a little earlier than that it was normal, if not almost universal,
>>> for professional sportsmen to die in poverty. Many became publicans on
>>> the meagre lump sum they were given on retirement, and drank themselves
>>> to death or similar. Luckily, times have changed.
>>
>>Benefits could be very lucrative. George Hirst received £3,500 in 1905
>>equivalent to £337,470 in today;'s money - see
>>https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calc
>>ulator RH
>
>But only if you were a top player with one of the bigger counties. If
>you were a run-of-the mill player with one of the smaller counties such
>as Leicestershire, were unlucky with the weather for your benefit match,
>or failed to have the ten-year or so career needed before you were given
>a benefit, then it would be a very different story.

It's interesting that this has devolved into a discussion of winter
pay rates rather than a discussion of the cricketing import.

Since we have some people saying the county system is dreadful, the
fact that at present it disgorges a lot of the most highly-prized
players on the planet suggests that we are actually doing something
right.

Ah, but it's "only" T20 that they're in demand for, and that does
nothing for the sacred Test team, for which the only acceptable
preparation, in some people's eyes, is the county championship. Except
that those eyes do not include the England management, who need
batters who have the attributes and technique of successful T20
batters, because they have the greater range of useful technical
skills.

For instance, the classical method of playing a 90mph yorker aimed at
the stumps is to dig it out and prevent it reaching the stumps. Jos
Buttler's method is to jump round to the off side and scoop it over
deep very fine leg for 6. A couple of days ago, I watched someone else
play them by jumping round and playing what resembled a drive to deep
ordinary fine leg for 4. Against batters like that, the yorker is a
boundary ball.

Oh, but that's so risky. Why? If it's a shot you've played many
hundreds of times in the nets and dozens of times in actual play, it's
easily as valid a technical option as a forward defensive. It takes a
hell of a lot of nerve to do it when Andrije Nortje is hurling it down
at 94mph, but if you have the technique to execute correctly most of
the time, then why not?

They may play a lot of non-traditional shots these days, but a
spectator coming to cricket for the first time would in most cases not
be able to see the difference between the classical cover drive and
the yorker-flick over deep fine leg, such is the fluency and grace of
both shots. It is anything but the "slogging" which village idiots
like to sneer with.

And that has implications for how cricketers should prosecute their
careers if they want to play Test cricket - at least until the
championship is playing England Test-style cricket, which it obviously
isn't at the moment.

Cheers,

Mike

On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 6:56:10 PM UTC, Mike Holmans wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Jan 2023 14:07:52 +0000, John Hall
> <john_...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >In message <d454fac5-09e9-4709...@googlegroups.com>,
> >Robert Henderson <anywh...@gmail.com> writes
> >>On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 9:15:34 PM UTC, Andy Walker wrote:
> >>> A generation or so earlier, much the same applied to footballers,
> >>> and a little earlier than that it was normal, if not almost universal,
> >>> for professional sportsmen to die in poverty. Many became publicans on
> >>> the meagre lump sum they were given on retirement, and drank themselves
> >>> to death or similar. Luckily, times have changed.
> >>
> >>Benefits could be very lucrative. George Hirst received £3,500 in 1905
> >>equivalent to £337,470 in today;'s money - see
> >>https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calc
> >>ulator RH
> >
> >But only if you were a top player with one of the bigger counties. If
> >you were a run-of-the mill player with one of the smaller counties such
> >as Leicestershire, were unlucky with the weather for your benefit match,
> >or failed to have the ten-year or so career needed before you were given
> >a benefit, then it would be a very different story.
> It's interesting that this has devolved into a discussion of winter
> pay rates rather than a discussion of the cricketing import.
>
> Since we have some people saying the county system is dreadful, the
> fact that at present it disgorges a lot of the most highly-prized
> players on the planet suggests that we are actually doing something
> right.
>
> Ah, but it's "only" T20 that they're in demand for, and that does
> nothing for the sacred Test team, for which the only acceptable
> preparation, in some people's eyes, is the county championship. Except
> that those eyes do not include the England management, who need
> batters who have the attributes and technique of successful T20
> batters, because they have the greater range of useful technical
> skills.
>
> For instance, the classical method of playing a 90mph yorker aimed at
> the stumps is to dig it out and prevent it reaching the stumps. Jos
> Buttler's method is to jump round to the off side and scoop it over
> deep very fine leg for 6. A couple of days ago, I watched someone else
> play them by jumping round and playing what resembled a drive to deep
> ordinary fine leg for 4. Against batters like that, the yorker is a
> boundary ball.

Translation: a shot played to a failed attempt as a yorker. RH