Long distance train travel seems to have recovered, if my Edinburgh trip
today is anything to go by. The 1230 from Edinburgh to Kings Cross was
full, including first class.

First class seats in the Azuma are a step up from those in standard, but
still not wonderful.

On the plus side 4G mobile reception from Vodafone was brilliant, even in
the remote Scottish Borders. It was full scale on the phone’s display for
much of the trip to the point I was suspecting an in train pico cell. That
was disproved by the occasional dip in signal strength.

This has been the first time I’ve tried the LNER phone app. Absolutely
painless way of buying tickets. Aztec style tickets appear within the app’s
own wallet instantly and these can be copied to my Apple Wallet, which I
did. Advance tickets seem to be available up to about an hour or two before
departure and were considerably cheaper than the off peak flexible fares.
(Tickets also get delivered by email as a pdf)

On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 13:50:24 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

>Long distance train travel seems to have recovered, if my Edinburgh trip
>today is anything to go by. The 1230 from Edinburgh to Kings Cross was
>full, including first class.

The ECML has made a much faster recovery than the other main lines. LNER seems to have done a particularly good job,
possibly because the OLR has much more freedom from day-to-day DfT meddling than the other TOCs. But the open access
operators are also doing well.

It's presumably because that route has a much higher proportion of leisure travel than the WCML, MML and GWR.

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 13:50:24 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Long distance train travel seems to have recovered, if my Edinburgh trip
>> today is anything to go by. The 1230 from Edinburgh to Kings Cross was
>> full, including first class.
>
> The ECML has made a much faster recovery than the other main lines. LNER
> seems to have done a particularly good job,
> possibly because the OLR has much more freedom from day-to-day DfT
> meddling than the other TOCs. But the open access
> operators are also doing well.
>
> It's presumably because that route has a much higher proportion of
> leisure travel than the WCML, MML and GWR.
>

Why more leisure travel? GWR goes to nice places as well.

I was also surprised to see a Euston service starting at Waverley. Next
stops Haymarket and Carlisle.

On 12/03/2022 14:29, Tweed wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 13:50:24 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Long distance train travel seems to have recovered, if my Edinburgh trip
>>> today is anything to go by. The 1230 from Edinburgh to Kings Cross was
>>> full, including first class.
>>
>> The ECML has made a much faster recovery than the other main lines. LNER
>> seems to have done a particularly good job,
>> possibly because the OLR has much more freedom from day-to-day DfT
>> meddling than the other TOCs. But the open access
>> operators are also doing well.
>>
>> It's presumably because that route has a much higher proportion of
>> leisure travel than the WCML, MML and GWR.
>>
>
> Why more leisure travel? GWR goes to nice places as well.
>
> I was also surprised to see a Euston service starting at Waverley. Next
> stops Haymarket and Carlisle.
>

Years back a Euston service and a cross country service for Bournemouth
left Waverley at the same time from the same platform, the XC service
heading east to York.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 13:50:24 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Long distance train travel seems to have recovered, if my Edinburgh trip
>>> today is anything to go by. The 1230 from Edinburgh to Kings Cross was
>>> full, including first class.
>>
>> The ECML has made a much faster recovery than the other main lines. LNER
>> seems to have done a particularly good job,
>> possibly because the OLR has much more freedom from day-to-day DfT
>> meddling than the other TOCs. But the open access
>> operators are also doing well.
>>
>> It's presumably because that route has a much higher proportion of
>> leisure travel than the WCML, MML and GWR.
>>
>
> Why more leisure travel? GWR goes to nice places as well.

Perhaps it's a case of less business travel on the ECML? But it's
certainly been less affected by the collapse of business travel than the
other main lines.

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 13:50:24 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Long distance train travel seems to have recovered, if my Edinburgh trip
>>> today is anything to go by. The 1230 from Edinburgh to Kings Cross was
>>> full, including first class.
>>
>> The ECML has made a much faster recovery than the other main lines. LNER
>> seems to have done a particularly good job,
>> possibly because the OLR has much more freedom from day-to-day DfT
>> meddling than the other TOCs. But the open access
>> operators are also doing well.
>>
>> It's presumably because that route has a much higher proportion of
>> leisure travel than the WCML, MML and GWR.
>>
>
> Why more leisure travel? GWR goes to nice places as well.
>
> I was also surprised to see a Euston service starting at Waverley. Next
> stops Haymarket and Carlisle.

Yes, that’s been running for many years. Looks like 3 a day at the moment.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 13:50:24 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Long distance train travel seems to have recovered, if my Edinburgh trip
>>>> today is anything to go by. The 1230 from Edinburgh to Kings Cross was
>>>> full, including first class.
>>>
>>> The ECML has made a much faster recovery than the other main lines. LNER
>>> seems to have done a particularly good job,
>>> possibly because the OLR has much more freedom from day-to-day DfT
>>> meddling than the other TOCs. But the open access
>>> operators are also doing well.
>>>
>>> It's presumably because that route has a much higher proportion of
>>> leisure travel than the WCML, MML and GWR.
>>>
>>
>> Why more leisure travel? GWR goes to nice places as well.
>>
>> I was also surprised to see a Euston service starting at Waverley. Next
>> stops Haymarket and Carlisle.
>
> Yes, that’s been running for many years. Looks like 3 a day at the moment.
>
> Sam
>

My ignorance. I suppose I’ve always thought of the Euston services going to
Glasgow.

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 13:50:24 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Long distance train travel seems to have recovered, if my Edinburgh trip
>>>>> today is anything to go by. The 1230 from Edinburgh to Kings Cross was
>>>>> full, including first class.
>>>>
>>>> The ECML has made a much faster recovery than the other main lines. LNER
>>>> seems to have done a particularly good job,
>>>> possibly because the OLR has much more freedom from day-to-day DfT
>>>> meddling than the other TOCs. But the open access
>>>> operators are also doing well.
>>>>
>>>> It's presumably because that route has a much higher proportion of
>>>> leisure travel than the WCML, MML and GWR.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Why more leisure travel? GWR goes to nice places as well.
>>>
>>> I was also surprised to see a Euston service starting at Waverley. Next
>>> stops Haymarket and Carlisle.
>>
>> Yes, that’s been running for many years. Looks like 3 a day at the moment.
>>
>> Sam
>>
>
> My ignorance. I suppose I’ve always thought of the Euston services going to
> Glasgow.

No problem - we’re all ignorant about some things. I’m trying to remember
whether there were ever VT 87+Mk3 trips on that route or whether it started
with the Pendolini.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 20:31:57 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
<ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:

>No problem - we’re all ignorant about some things. I’m trying to remember
>whether there were ever VT 87+Mk3 trips on that route or whether it started
>with the Pendolini.

I think the change occurred towards the end of BR with the
introduction of the DVTs and effectively fixed formation. Prior to
that some WCML trains would split at Carstairs with a portion being
diesel hauled to Edinburgh. After privitisation I think the WCML
Edinburgh trains were part of Cross Country worked for a time by Class
158s!

In message <4i0tYrVP5kL8gEd1jt0m+edPsAFm@4ax.com>, at 23:42:38 on Sat,
12 Mar 2022, Nigel Emery <nigele3@ukonline.co.uk> remarked:
>On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 20:31:57 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
><ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>No problem - we’re all ignorant about some things. I’m trying to remember
>>whether there were ever VT 87+Mk3 trips on that route or whether it started
>>with the Pendolini.
>
>I think the change occurred towards the end of BR with the
>introduction of the DVTs and effectively fixed formation. Prior to
>that some WCML trains would split at Carstairs with a portion being
>diesel hauled to Edinburgh. After privitisation I think the WCML
>Edinburgh trains were part of Cross Country worked for a time by Class
>158s!

I've seen a VT heading west at Haymarket, while waiting for a hop to
Haymarket to catch a train to Peterborough. (Five years ago, perhaps)

Looking at tomorrow:

<https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:EDB/to/gb-
nr:BHM/2022-03-14/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt>

There's the hourly (with a few missing) XCs to the West Country, plus
seven trains to Euston.
--
Roland Perry

On 12/03/2022 23:42, Nigel Emery wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 20:31:57 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
> <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> No problem - we’re all ignorant about some things. I’m trying to remember
>> whether there were ever VT 87+Mk3 trips on that route or whether it started
>> with the Pendolini.
>
> I think the change occurred towards the end of BR with the
> introduction of the DVTs and effectively fixed formation. Prior to
> that some WCML trains would split at Carstairs with a portion being
> diesel hauled to Edinburgh. After privitisation I think the WCML
> Edinburgh trains were part of Cross Country worked for a time by Class
> 158s!

The 158 WCML services from Edinburgh (and Glasgow) went to Liverpool and
Manchester, the last few miles lacking wires.

On 12/03/2022 14:29, Tweed wrote:
> I was also surprised to see a Euston service starting at Waverley. Next
> stops Haymarket and Carlisle.

Presumably via Birmingham? Scotland-Birmingham trains got joined onto
Birmingham-Euston trains quite a few years ago. It had the the major
advantage of replacing over-crowded Voyagers on the route with not so
over-crowded Pendolinos.

In the past Birmingham New Street has seen two trains departing for
Edinburgh at the same time in opposite directions. Presumably it could be
possible for the same thing to happen in reverse at Edinburgh.

Roger Lynn <usenet@rilynn.me.uk> wrote:
> On 12/03/2022 14:29, Tweed wrote:
>> I was also surprised to see a Euston service starting at Waverley. Next
>> stops Haymarket and Carlisle.
>
> Presumably via Birmingham? Scotland-Birmingham trains got joined onto
> Birmingham-Euston trains quite a few years ago. It had the the major
> advantage of replacing over-crowded Voyagers on the route with not so
> over-crowded Pendolinos.
>
> In the past Birmingham New Street has seen two trains departing for
> Edinburgh at the same time in opposite directions. Presumably it could be
> possible for the same thing to happen in reverse at Edinburgh.
>

Yes I think it did, but to London.

On 13/03/2022 16:52, Roger Lynn wrote:
> On 12/03/2022 14:29, Tweed wrote:
>> I was also surprised to see a Euston service starting at Waverley. Next
>> stops Haymarket and Carlisle.
>
> Presumably via Birmingham? Scotland-Birmingham trains got joined onto
> Birmingham-Euston trains quite a few years ago. It had the the major
> advantage of replacing over-crowded Voyagers on the route with not so
> over-crowded Pendolinos.
>
> In the past Birmingham New Street has seen two trains departing for
> Edinburgh at the same time in opposite directions. Presumably it could
> be possible for the same thing to happen in reverse at Edinburgh.

It's reported in another thread that trains to Euston and to Bournemouth
via York used to leave Edinburgh at the same time from the same platform
(presumably the pair now numbered either 1 and 20 or 2 and 19).

On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 18:43:18 +0000, Certes <none@nowhere.net> wrote:

>On 13/03/2022 16:52, Roger Lynn wrote:
>> On 12/03/2022 14:29, Tweed wrote:
>>> I was also surprised to see a Euston service starting at Waverley. Next
>>> stops Haymarket and Carlisle.
>>
>> Presumably via Birmingham? Scotland-Birmingham trains got joined onto
>> Birmingham-Euston trains quite a few years ago. It had the the major
>> advantage of replacing over-crowded Voyagers on the route with not so
>> over-crowded Pendolinos.
>>
>> In the past Birmingham New Street has seen two trains departing for
>> Edinburgh at the same time in opposite directions. Presumably it could
>> be possible for the same thing to happen in reverse at Edinburgh.
>
>It's reported in another thread that trains to Euston and to Bournemouth
>via York used to leave Edinburgh at the same time from the same platform
>(presumably the pair now numbered either 1 and 20 or 2 and 19).
>
IIRC you used to get the Royal Scot and the Midland Scot leaving
Glasgow from adjacent platforms with the latter turning right to take
the pretty route to the border before later crossing the other's route
to head for St Pancras.

On 12/03/2022 23:42, Nigel Emery wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 20:31:57 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
> <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> No problem - we’re all ignorant about some things. I’m trying to remember
>> whether there were ever VT 87+Mk3 trips on that route or whether it started
>> with the Pendolini.
>
> I think the change occurred towards the end of BR with the
> introduction of the DVTs and effectively fixed formation. Prior to
> that some WCML trains would split at Carstairs with a portion being
> diesel hauled to Edinburgh. After privitisation I think the WCML
> Edinburgh trains were part of Cross Country worked for a time by Class
> 158s!

It was mostly the Liverpool & Manchester (and some Birmingham, or
south/west thereof) services that split/joined portions at Carstairs in
the loco-hauled era.

Euston to Edinburgh via Birmingham was a post-privatisation creation
when WCML Birmingham to Glasgow or Edinburgh services were linked to
Euston / Wolverhampton services, after Cross Country lost its WCML
services to Scotland. That also eliminated a lot (but not all) Class 221
diesel workings under the wires between Birmingham & Scotland.

On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 22:35:14 +0000, Bevan Price
<bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:

>It was mostly the Liverpool & Manchester (and some Birmingham, or
>south/west thereof) services that split/joined portions at Carstairs in
>the loco-hauled era.

Thanks, my hazy memory!

Slightly different subject but back in the mid 80s I caught a West
Coast overnight that went via Dumfries. I know I started my journey at
Stafford but I can't remember if I caught it there or changed further
north. Would that have been from Euston?

Certes <none@nowhere.net> wrote:
> On 13/03/2022 16:52, Roger Lynn wrote:
>> On 12/03/2022 14:29, Tweed wrote:
>>> I was also surprised to see a Euston service starting at Waverley. Next
>>> stops Haymarket and Carlisle.
>>
>> Presumably via Birmingham? Scotland-Birmingham trains got joined onto
>> Birmingham-Euston trains quite a few years ago. It had the the major
>> advantage of replacing over-crowded Voyagers on the route with not so
>> over-crowded Pendolinos.
>>
>> In the past Birmingham New Street has seen two trains departing for
>> Edinburgh at the same time in opposite directions. Presumably it could
>> be possible for the same thing to happen in reverse at Edinburgh.
>
> It's reported in another thread that trains to Euston and to Bournemouth
> via York used to leave Edinburgh at the same time from the same platform
> (presumably the pair now numbered either 1 and 20 or 2 and 19).

Or from what is now 7 and 11 and used to be 10 and 11, back in the days
when what are now 1 and 20 didn’t exist at all.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 13:50:24 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Long distance train travel seems to have recovered, if my Edinburgh trip
>> today is anything to go by. The 1230 from Edinburgh to Kings Cross was
>> full, including first class.
>
> The ECML has made a much faster recovery than the other main lines. LNER
> seems to have done a particularly good job,
> possibly because the OLR has much more freedom from day-to-day DfT
> meddling than the other TOCs. But the open access
> operators are also doing well.
>
> It's presumably because that route has a much higher proportion of
> leisure travel than the WCML, MML and GWR.
>

I've regularly observed gWr leisure-travel trains full and standing for
over six months now.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Roger Lynn <usenet@rilynn.me.uk> wrote:
> On 12/03/2022 14:29, Tweed wrote:
>> I was also surprised to see a Euston service starting at Waverley. Next
>> stops Haymarket and Carlisle.
>
> Presumably via Birmingham? Scotland-Birmingham trains got joined onto
> Birmingham-Euston trains quite a few years ago. It had the the major
> advantage of replacing over-crowded Voyagers on the route with not so
> over-crowded Pendolinos.
>

You might think that but in reality they're often double voyagers
throughout, IIRC.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

On 14/03/2022 10:48, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 13:50:24 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Long distance train travel seems to have recovered, if my Edinburgh trip
>>> today is anything to go by. The 1230 from Edinburgh to Kings Cross was
>>> full, including first class.
>>
>> The ECML has made a much faster recovery than the other main lines. LNER
>> seems to have done a particularly good job,
>> possibly because the OLR has much more freedom from day-to-day DfT
>> meddling than the other TOCs. But the open access
>> operators are also doing well.
>>
>> It's presumably because that route has a much higher proportion of
>> leisure travel than the WCML, MML and GWR.
>>
>
> I've regularly observed gWr leisure-travel trains full and standing for
> over six months now.
>

Trip down to Southampton and back on Sunday showed SWR trains
comfortably busy in both directions. London bound trains were in such
demand there were a number of blue-jacketed assistance staff policing
Platform 5 in the morning. That was on top of the various bustituted
services leaving from the station forecourt.

One of the advantages of the engineering diversions was my normal trip,
changing at Woking, was replaced by a direct service via Havant and Fareham.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 14/03/2022 10:48, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
> Roger Lynn <usenet@rilynn.me.uk> wrote:
>> On 12/03/2022 14:29, Tweed wrote:
>>> I was also surprised to see a Euston service starting at Waverley. Next
>>> stops Haymarket and Carlisle.
>>
>> Presumably via Birmingham? Scotland-Birmingham trains got joined onto
>> Birmingham-Euston trains quite a few years ago. It had the the major
>> advantage of replacing over-crowded Voyagers on the route with not so
>> over-crowded Pendolinos.
>
> You might think that but in reality they're often double voyagers
> throughout, IIRC.

It was claimed that Voyagers ran under the wires to give the option of
swapping them temporarily to anywhere that had an electrical failure
on an otherwise usable railway. I don't know how often this plan was
put into action, if at all, or how the electric trains were supposed to
be transferred from the powerless section onto the Scottish services.

Certes <none@nowhere.net> wrote:
> On 14/03/2022 10:48, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>> Roger Lynn <usenet@rilynn.me.uk> wrote:
>>> On 12/03/2022 14:29, Tweed wrote:
>>>> I was also surprised to see a Euston service starting at Waverley. Next
>>>> stops Haymarket and Carlisle.
>>>
>>> Presumably via Birmingham? Scotland-Birmingham trains got joined onto
>>> Birmingham-Euston trains quite a few years ago. It had the the major
>>> advantage of replacing over-crowded Voyagers on the route with not so
>>> over-crowded Pendolinos.
>>
>> You might think that but in reality they're often double voyagers
>> throughout, IIRC.
>
> It was claimed that Voyagers ran under the wires to give the option of
> swapping them temporarily to anywhere that had an electrical failure
> on an otherwise usable railway. I don't know how often this plan was
> put into action, if at all, or how the electric trains were supposed to
> be transferred from the powerless section onto the Scottish services.
>

Interesting, I'd assumed it was down to number of trains available vs.
number of services needing to be run (ie, they had more voyagers than were
needed for services off the wires, and not enough Pendos to operate all the
services under the wires).

Anna Noyd-Dryver

On 2022-03-12 14:04:23 +0000, Recliner said:

> On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 13:50:24 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Long distance train travel seems to have recovered, if my Edinburgh trip
>> today is anything to go by. The 1230 from Edinburgh to Kings Cross was
>> full, including first class.
>
> The ECML has made a much faster recovery than the other main lines.
> LNER seems to have done a particularly good job,
> possibly because the OLR has much more freedom from day-to-day DfT
> meddling than the other TOCs. But the open access
> operators are also doing well.
>
> It's presumably because that route has a much higher proportion of
> leisure travel than the WCML, MML and GWR.

The impression I get is that liesure travel is picking up again much
more quickly than commuting or business travel. I get the feeling that
enough office type jobs are retaining at least an element of remote
working both for day to day and for things like meetings, to affect
commuter and other work type volumes, while people are deciding, after
both imposed restrictions and personal reluctance to travel during the
pandemic, that they now want to get out and travelling again. That may
be no bad thing in the long term. Commuting in particular is a
difficult traffic for the railways to handle because it is so peaky,
meaning expensive capcity has to be provided for heavy traffic flows
just twice a day, 5 days a week, that is not needed at other times,
while travel for other purposes tends to be more spread out, meaning
fewer trains and fewer paths are needed overall to achieve the same
passenger flows.

Robin

On 14/03/2022 00:10, Nigel Emery wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 22:35:14 +0000, Bevan Price
> <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It was mostly the Liverpool & Manchester (and some Birmingham, or
>> south/west thereof) services that split/joined portions at Carstairs in
>> the loco-hauled era.
>
> Thanks, my hazy memory!
>
> Slightly different subject but back in the mid 80s I caught a West
> Coast overnight that went via Dumfries. I know I started my journey at
> Stafford but I can't remember if I caught it there or changed further
> north. Would that have been from Euston?

Looking at timetables from that era, only two northbound overnight/
sleeper trains called at Dumfries; one was a Euston - Stranraer service
that called at Crewe, the other was a Euston - Glasgow service with no
booked pick-up stops north of Rugby.

Possibly some services might have been diverted due to engineering work
- in which case there was a Bristol to Glasgow/Edinburgh service that
called at Stafford, but normally ran via Carstairs.