I'm on a variable tarriff and have an old dumb gas meter.

Given that gas prices look likely to rise when the cap is finally
removed or revised upwards, would it be sensible to accidentally
submit a meter reading that's higher than it really is but still
belevable in order to buy more gas at the current price?

Caecilius wrote:

> I'm on a variable tarriff and have an old dumb gas meter.
>
> Given that gas prices look likely to rise when the cap is finally
> removed or revised upwards, would it be sensible to accidentally
> submit a meter reading that's higher than it really is but still
> belevable in order to buy more gas at the current price?

The energy co's hoping to get people onto 2 year fixed prices will be laughing,
assuming they''re buying up futures at currently available prices

<https://www.theice.com/products/910/UK-Natural-Gas-Futures/data?marketId=5188710&span=3>

if I read that right, next winter just over half of present, and winter 2023
under half?

Caecilius <nospam@spamless.invalid> wrote in
news:fs65oghoenffs5gprp94o7j0dd6bgucm5q@4ax.com:

> I'm on a variable tarriff and have an old dumb gas meter.
>
> Given that gas prices look likely to rise when the cap is finally
> removed or revised upwards, would it be sensible to accidentally
> submit a meter reading that's higher than it really is but still
> belevable in order to buy more gas at the current price?

That would be dishonest, potentially fraudulent, is that something you are
prepared to do to save a few bob?

On 03/11/2021 15:32, Peter Burke wrote:
> Caecilius <nospam@spamless.invalid> wrote in
> news:fs65oghoenffs5gprp94o7j0dd6bgucm5q@4ax.com:
>
>> I'm on a variable tarriff and have an old dumb gas meter.
>>
>> Given that gas prices look likely to rise when the cap is finally
>> removed or revised upwards, would it be sensible to accidentally
>> submit a meter reading that's higher than it really is but still
>> belevable in order to buy more gas at the current price?
>
> That would be dishonest, potentially fraudulent, is that something you are
> prepared to do to save a few bob?
>
>
It's been discussed before and IIRC the conclusion was that it was
actually fraud. Maybe don't overdo it. If you are challenged on your
next, really low reading be prepared to say you have been economising.

On 03/11/2021 14:28, Caecilius wrote:
> I'm on a variable tarriff and have an old dumb gas meter.
>
> Given that gas prices look likely to rise when the cap is finally
> removed or revised upwards, would it be sensible to accidentally
> submit a meter reading that's higher than it really is but still
> belevable in order to buy more gas at the current price?
>
Some time ago, before I knew what the internet was, and in the days of
quaterly bills, I opened my gas bill and was surprised at the amount. So
I went outside to the garage and found that the meter has been misread.
As it was a period of high inflation I thought it would be prudent to
pay the amount they were requesting, but I could not easity afford it.
So I rang the gas board and they I could just pay half.

On 03/11/2021 15:32, Peter Burke wrote:
> Caecilius <nospam@spamless.invalid> wrote in
> news:fs65oghoenffs5gprp94o7j0dd6bgucm5q@4ax.com:
>
>> I'm on a variable tarriff and have an old dumb gas meter.
>>
>> Given that gas prices look likely to rise when the cap is finally
>> removed or revised upwards, would it be sensible to accidentally
>> submit a meter reading that's higher than it really is but still
>> belevable in order to buy more gas at the current price?
>
> That would be dishonest, potentially fraudulent, is that something you are
> prepared to do to save a few bob?

It's not dishonest, it's buying "futures" (done for thousands of years
in an agricultural context).

What about "estimated" meter readings (invariably *over*estimates)?

--
Max Demian

On 03/11/2021 16:06, newshound wrote:
> On 03/11/2021 15:32, Peter Burke wrote:
>> Caecilius <nospam@spamless.invalid> wrote

>>> I'm on a variable tarriff and have an old dumb gas meter.

>>> Given that gas prices look likely to rise when the cap is finally
>>> removed or revised upwards, would it be sensible to accidentally
>>> submit a meter reading that's higher than it really is but still
>>> belevable in order to buy more gas at the current price?

>> That would be dishonest, potentially fraudulent, is that something you are
>> prepared to do to save a few bob?

> It's been discussed before and IIRC the conclusion was that it was
> actually fraud. Maybe don't overdo it. If you are challenged on your
> next, really low reading be prepared to say you have been economising.

Or perhaps were so shaken by the reports of the 400 jets and the number
of superyachts bringing the elites to COP26, that you felt you had to
stop using gas straight away to make up for the waste and damage to the
planet ;-)

--
Spike

On Wed, 3 Nov 2021 16:06:56 +0000, newshound
<newshound@stevejqr.plus.com> wrote:

>On 03/11/2021 15:32, Peter Burke wrote:
>> Caecilius <nospam@spamless.invalid> wrote in
>> news:fs65oghoenffs5gprp94o7j0dd6bgucm5q@4ax.com:
>>
>>> I'm on a variable tarriff and have an old dumb gas meter.
>>>
>>> Given that gas prices look likely to rise when the cap is finally
>>> removed or revised upwards, would it be sensible to accidentally
>>> submit a meter reading that's higher than it really is but still
>>> belevable in order to buy more gas at the current price?
>>
>> That would be dishonest, potentially fraudulent, is that something you are
>> prepared to do to save a few bob?
>>
>>
>It's been discussed before and IIRC the conclusion was that it was
>actually fraud. Maybe don't overdo it. If you are challenged on your
>next, really low reading be prepared to say you have been economising.

However vague the estimated bills may appear it's reasonable to assume
the power companies have masses of data based on years of patterns of
usage etc.

Because I spent an unexpected and unscheduled eight months away from
my house thanks to Covid lock-down measures elsewhere, my actual
consumption for the period was way lower than the estimates that kept
on dropping through my letterbox in my absence. After my phoning in
the correct numbers they sent a meter reader round to check. The
reader was happy to accept my explanation for the numbers and I'd have
been willing to show my passport stamps as proof if they had wanted me
to.

In short: if your readings diverge from what they already know about
you, they will notice.

Nick

On 03/11/2021 22:40, Nick Odell wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Nov 2021 16:06:56 +0000, newshound
> <newshound@stevejqr.plus.com> wrote:
>
>> On 03/11/2021 15:32, Peter Burke wrote:
>>> Caecilius <nospam@spamless.invalid> wrote in
>>> news:fs65oghoenffs5gprp94o7j0dd6bgucm5q@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> I'm on a variable tarriff and have an old dumb gas meter.
>>>>
>>>> Given that gas prices look likely to rise when the cap is finally
>>>> removed or revised upwards, would it be sensible to accidentally
>>>> submit a meter reading that's higher than it really is but still
>>>> belevable in order to buy more gas at the current price?
>>>
>>> That would be dishonest, potentially fraudulent, is that something you are
>>> prepared to do to save a few bob?
>>>
>>>
>> It's been discussed before and IIRC the conclusion was that it was
>> actually fraud. Maybe don't overdo it. If you are challenged on your
>> next, really low reading be prepared to say you have been economising.
>
>
> However vague the estimated bills may appear it's reasonable to assume
> the power companies have masses of data based on years of patterns of
> usage etc.
>
> Because I spent an unexpected and unscheduled eight months away from
> my house thanks to Covid lock-down measures elsewhere, my actual
> consumption for the period was way lower than the estimates that kept
> on dropping through my letterbox in my absence. After my phoning in
> the correct numbers they sent a meter reader round to check. The
> reader was happy to accept my explanation for the numbers and I'd have
> been willing to show my passport stamps as proof if they had wanted me
> to.
>
> In short: if your readings diverge from what they already know about
> you, they will notice.

Even back when I worked for an Electricity Board, the meter readers were
given an upper and lower limit for the readings. If the actual reading
fell outside those limits, they had to make an entry on the card that
signified they had checked and verified the reading. If they didn't, the
reading was estimated. |As much as anything else, it is to protect the
customer from the meter being misread.

--
Colin Bignell

On 03/11/2021 23:03, nightjar wrote:
> On 03/11/2021 22:40, Nick Odell wrote:
>> On Wed, 3 Nov 2021 16:06:56 +0000, newshound
>> <newshound@stevejqr.plus.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 03/11/2021 15:32, Peter Burke wrote:
>>>> Caecilius <nospam@spamless.invalid> wrote in
>>>> news:fs65oghoenffs5gprp94o7j0dd6bgucm5q@4ax.com:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm on a variable tarriff and have an old dumb gas meter.
>>>>>
>>>>> Given that gas prices look likely to rise when the cap is finally
>>>>> removed or revised upwards, would it be sensible to accidentally
>>>>> submit a meter reading that's higher than it really is but still
>>>>> belevable in order to buy more gas at the current price?
>>>>
>>>> That would be dishonest, potentially fraudulent, is that something
>>>> you are
>>>> prepared to do to save a few bob?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> It's been discussed before and IIRC the conclusion was that it was
>>> actually fraud. Maybe don't overdo it. If you are challenged on your
>>> next, really low reading be prepared to say you have been economising.
>>
>>
>> However vague the estimated bills may appear it's reasonable to assume
>> the power companies have masses of data based on years of patterns of
>> usage etc.
>>
>> Because I spent an unexpected and unscheduled eight months away from
>> my house thanks to Covid lock-down measures elsewhere, my actual
>> consumption for the period was way lower than the estimates that kept
>> on dropping through my letterbox in my absence. After my phoning in
>> the correct numbers they sent a meter reader round to check. The
>> reader was happy to accept my explanation for the numbers and I'd have
>> been willing to show my passport stamps as proof if they had wanted me
>> to.
>>
>> In short: if your readings diverge from what they already know about
>> you, they will notice.
>
> Even back when I worked for an Electricity Board, the meter readers were
> given an upper and lower limit for the readings. If the actual reading
> fell outside those limits, they had to make an entry on the card that
> signified they had checked and verified the reading. If they didn't, the
> reading was estimated. |As much as anything else, it is to protect the
> customer from the meter being misread.
>
>

I have been caught out a few times working in an empty property and I
have bypassed the PAYG meter that has no credit.

--

Adam

On 3 Nov 2021 at 15:32:59, Peter Burke <not@for.mail> wrote:
> Caecilius <nospam@spamless.invalid> wrote in
> news:fs65oghoenffs5gprp94o7j0dd6bgucm5q@4ax.com:
>
>> I'm on a variable tarriff and have an old dumb gas meter.
>>
>> Given that gas prices look likely to rise when the cap is finally
>> removed or revised upwards, would it be sensible to accidentally
>> submit a meter reading that's higher than it really is but still
>> belevable in order to buy more gas at the current price?
>
> That would be dishonest, potentially fraudulent, is that something you are
> prepared to do to save a few bob?

Is it any different to buying a few books of first class stamps
when price is about to rise?

On 04/11/2021 07:35, Bob Martin wrote:
> On 3 Nov 2021 at 15:32:59, Peter Burke <not@for.mail> wrote:
>> Caecilius <nospam@spamless.invalid> wrote in
>> news:fs65oghoenffs5gprp94o7j0dd6bgucm5q@4ax.com:
>>
>>> I'm on a variable tarriff and have an old dumb gas meter.
>>>
>>> Given that gas prices look likely to rise when the cap is finally
>>> removed or revised upwards, would it be sensible to accidentally
>>> submit a meter reading that's higher than it really is but still
>>> belevable in order to buy more gas at the current price?
>>
>> That would be dishonest, potentially fraudulent, is that something you are
>> prepared to do to save a few bob?
>
> Is it any different to buying a few books of first class stamps
> when price is about to rise?
>

Royal Mail offer to sell you the stamps now at their current price for
use later. Gas suppliers offer to sell you gas at their current price
for use now. It's not a "futures contract".

The analogy would be better with DIY natural gas storage.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> wrote
> Peter Burke <not@for.mail> wrote
>> Caecilius <nospam@spamless.invalid> wrote

>>> I'm on a variable tarriff and have an old dumb gas meter.
>>>
>>> Given that gas prices look likely to rise when the cap is finally
>>> removed or revised upwards, would it be sensible to accidentally
>>> submit a meter reading that's higher than it really is but still
>>> belevable in order to buy more gas at the current price?
>>
>> That would be dishonest, potentially fraudulent, is that something you
>> are
>> prepared to do to save a few bob?
>
> Is it any different to buying a few books of first class stamps
> when price is about to rise?

That doesn’t involve lying.

On 04/11/2021 00:02, ARW wrote:
> On 03/11/2021 23:03, nightjar wrote:
>> On 03/11/2021 22:40, Nick Odell wrote:
>>> On Wed, 3 Nov 2021 16:06:56 +0000, newshound
>>> <newshound@stevejqr.plus.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 03/11/2021 15:32, Peter Burke wrote:
>>>>> Caecilius <nospam@spamless.invalid> wrote in
>>>>> news:fs65oghoenffs5gprp94o7j0dd6bgucm5q@4ax.com:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm on a variable tarriff and have an old dumb gas meter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Given that gas prices look likely to rise when the cap is finally
>>>>>> removed or revised upwards, would it be sensible to accidentally
>>>>>> submit a meter reading that's higher than it really is but still
>>>>>> belevable in order to buy more gas at the current price?
>>>>>
>>>>> That would be dishonest, potentially fraudulent, is that something
>>>>> you are
>>>>> prepared to do to save a few bob?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> It's been discussed before and IIRC the conclusion was that it was
>>>> actually fraud. Maybe don't overdo it. If you are challenged on your
>>>> next, really low reading be prepared to say you have been economising.
>>>
>>>
>>> However vague the estimated bills may appear it's reasonable to assume
>>> the power companies have masses of data based on years of patterns of
>>> usage etc.
>>>
>>> Because I spent an unexpected and unscheduled eight months away from
>>> my house thanks to Covid lock-down measures elsewhere, my actual
>>> consumption for the period was way lower than the estimates that kept
>>> on dropping through my letterbox in my absence. After my phoning in
>>> the correct numbers they sent a meter reader round to check. The
>>> reader was happy to accept my explanation for the numbers and I'd have
>>> been willing to show my passport stamps as proof if they had wanted me
>>> to.
>>>
>>> In short: if your readings diverge from what they already know about
>>> you, they will notice.
>>
>> Even back when I worked for an Electricity Board, the meter readers
>> were given an upper and lower limit for the readings. If the actual
>> reading fell outside those limits, they had to make an entry on the
>> card that signified they had checked and verified the reading. If they
>> didn't, the reading was estimated. |As much as anything else, it is to
>> protect the customer from the meter being misread.
>>
>>
>
> I have been caught out a few times working in an empty property and I
> have bypassed the PAYG meter that has no credit.
>
> --
>
> Adam

Some years ago, electricity used to be free of VAT.

There was a surge of customers that would go into the electricity
company shops and pay several grand into their accounts, the idea being
that the amount that was in credit on teh day taht VAT was introduced
meant that any electricity used after that date was VAT free until that
credit ran out, then VAT was added on.

someone I know had a pre-payment meter, went out and bought £1000 of
prepayment cards and put them all into the meter, and the meter showed a
huge positive balance of over a grand.

Much confusion ensured as the meter started charging for electricity
with VAT despite teh credit haviong been put in before that date.

This "overcharging" was discovered later and I got involved in sorting
it out. I actually worked out the amount of overcharging and complained
the electricity company.

They had to come out and inspect the meter. They ended up chaning the
pence per kW as a one off to the pre-vat rate and credited the overpaid
VAT back to the meter.

She was told that when the balance fell to less than £10, she was to
call them and tehy would come out and put teh pence per lW back to the
new with VAT rate.

They also searched all their other pre-payment customers and apparently
this person was the *only* one to have preloaded the meter with so much
credit before the date of teh introduction of VAT.

She did it again as the VAT rate was initially at 5% and it was some
time later it finally went up to 15%....

Then we had all teh above repeat itself :-)

On 04/11/2021 08:07, Robin wrote:
> On 04/11/2021 07:35, Bob Martin wrote:
>> On 3 Nov 2021 at 15:32:59, Peter Burke <not@for.mail> wrote:
>>> Caecilius <nospam@spamless.invalid> wrote in
>>> news:fs65oghoenffs5gprp94o7j0dd6bgucm5q@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> I'm on a variable tarriff and have an old dumb gas meter.
>>>>
>>>> Given that gas prices look likely to rise when the cap is finally
>>>> removed or revised upwards, would it be sensible to accidentally
>>>> submit a meter reading that's higher than it really is but still
>>>> belevable in order to buy more gas at the current price?
>>>
>>> That would be dishonest, potentially fraudulent, is that something
>>> you are
>>> prepared to do to save a few bob?
>>
>> Is it any different to buying a few books of first class stamps
>> when price is about to rise?
>>
>
> Royal Mail offer to sell you the stamps now at their current price for
> use later.  Gas suppliers offer to sell you gas at their current price
> for use now.  It's not a "futures contract".
>
> The analogy would be better with DIY natural gas storage.
>

If you bought stamps that were marked 1sdt Class or 2nd Class rather
than the actual cost of 1st calss of 2nd class postage, the former were
still valid when postal rates went up.

I used to buy multiple books when a announcement of a price rise was
made... saved a bit there :-)

On Wed, 03 Nov 2021 15:32:59 GMT, Peter Burke <not@for.mail> wrote:

>Caecilius <nospam@spamless.invalid> wrote in
>news:fs65oghoenffs5gprp94o7j0dd6bgucm5q@4ax.com:
>
>> I'm on a variable tarriff and have an old dumb gas meter.
>>
>> Given that gas prices look likely to rise when the cap is finally
>> removed or revised upwards, would it be sensible to accidentally
>> submit a meter reading that's higher than it really is but still
>> belevable in order to buy more gas at the current price?
>
>That would be dishonest, potentially fraudulent, is that something you are
>prepared to do to save a few bob?

I was thinking of transposing two digits or misreading a single digit,
so I think fraud is probably stretching it. But I get your point.

On Thu, 04 Nov 2021 08:07:22 +0000, Robin wrote:

> Royal Mail offer to sell you the stamps now at their current price for
> use later.

Costco will sell you a pack at a discount.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> wrote in
news:iuhgqeFr93vU1@mid.individual.net:

> On 3 Nov 2021 at 15:32:59, Peter Burke <not@for.mail> wrote:
>> Caecilius <nospam@spamless.invalid> wrote in
>> news:fs65oghoenffs5gprp94o7j0dd6bgucm5q@4ax.com:
>>>
>>> Given that gas prices look likely to rise when the cap is finally
>>> removed or revised upwards, would it be sensible to accidentally
>>> submit a meter reading that's higher than it really is but still
>>> belevable in order to buy more gas at the current price?
>>
>> That would be dishonest, potentially fraudulent, is that something
>> you are prepared to do to save a few bob?
>
> Is it any different to buying a few books of first class stamps
> when price is about to rise?
>

It would be a fraudulent misrepresentation of fact, a theft, and completely
different from the example that you offer. The o/p has acknowledged this.

uklm will set you straight if there is any doubt.

On Wednesday, 3 November 2021 at 14:54:15 UTC, Andy Burns wrote:

> The energy co's hoping to get people onto 2 year fixed prices will be laughing,
> assuming they''re buying up futures at currently available prices
>
> <https://www.theice.com/products/910/UK-Natural-Gas-Futures/data?marketId=5188710&span=3>
>
> if I read that right, next winter just over half of present, and winter 2023
> under half?

I'm on a 2yr fixed contract which is at below the current cap levels (and will be significantly below the adjusted cap levels come next Apr). If the price does drop I'll just exit the fixed price contract at a penalty of £30 per service. Likely to be small beer if the drops indicated in the link you shared are in any way accurate.