He's been scratching around for England, and his place has been
questioned. I believe we've heard that he's been hitting them well in
the nets and a big score is just around the corner.

I don't believe it. He's looked completely at sea opening for Paarl
Royals with Jos Buttler, and the only decent score he's made all
winter was a 57* in a T10 a couple of months ago.

I'm sorry to say it, but I think he's done.

Cheers,

Mike

On Tue, 24 Jan 2023 14:35:14 +0000, Mike Holmans <spam@jackalope.uk>
wrote:

>He's been scratching around for England, and his place has been
>questioned. I believe we've heard that he's been hitting them well in
>the nets and a big score is just around the corner.
>
>I don't believe it. He's looked completely at sea opening for Paarl
>Royals with Jos Buttler, and the only decent score he's made all
>winter was a 57* in a T10 a couple of months ago.
>
>I'm sorry to say it, but I think he's done.

Roy's in the ODI squad. Alex Hales isn't, and he's just completed his
fifth 50 in five innings - one being a ton and the next 99.

I understand the reasons why the ILT20 doesn't count officially
because it's in an associate country, but it does seem rather silly
when it's blindingly obvious that the standard is rather higher than
in the SA20 where Jos Buttler has had the best possible view of how
useless his opening partner has been.

Beside Hales, the only other centurion has been Tom Kohler-Cadmore,
who must be knocking on the door of the England dressing room even
though it's already a bit crowded.

Cheers,

Mike

On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 5:24:40 PM UTC, Mike Holmans wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Jan 2023 14:35:14 +0000, Mike Holmans <sp...@jackalope.uk>
> wrote:
> >He's been scratching around for England, and his place has been
> >questioned. I believe we've heard that he's been hitting them well in
> >the nets and a big score is just around the corner.
> >
> >I don't believe it. He's looked completely at sea opening for Paarl
> >Royals with Jos Buttler, and the only decent score he's made all
> >winter was a 57* in a T10 a couple of months ago.
> >
> >I'm sorry to say it, but I think he's done.
> Roy's in the ODI squad. Alex Hales isn't, and he's just completed his
> fifth 50 in five innings - one being a ton and the next 99.

it is rather odd. I'm not sold on either of them, but hales is
the man in form, and he does have quite a decent record in
odis, plus having played in ipl, hes plenty of experience in
india where the WC is. clearly they are determined to give
roy every last chance. Salt is quite lucky to be there too
as his form seems to have been single figures generally.

but it looks as if they basically picked the squad sometime
ago, told the ones they wanted to be in SA20 and the
rest could go UAE or BBLing.

I notice that they have included all the bolwers who were
injured last summer [except mahmood] and topley,
maybe as a sort of extended fitness test.

mike

On Tue, 24 Jan 2023 14:35:14 +0000, Mike Holmans <spam@jackalope.uk>
wrote:

>He's been scratching around for England, and his place has been
>questioned. I believe we've heard that he's been hitting them well in
>the nets and a big score is just around the corner.
>
>I don't believe it. He's looked completely at sea opening for Paarl
>Royals with Jos Buttler, and the only decent score he's made all
>winter was a 57* in a T10 a couple of months ago.
>
>I'm sorry to say it, but I think he's done.

And there we see the reverse woof in all its pristine glory.

Cheers,

Mike

On Tuesday, 24 January 2023 at 14:35:17 UTC, Mike Holmans wrote:
> He's been scratching around for England, and his place has been
> questioned. I believe we've heard that he's been hitting them well in
> the nets and a big score is just around the corner.
>
> I don't believe it. He's looked completely at sea opening for Paarl
> Royals with Jos Buttler, and the only decent score he's made all
> winter was a 57* in a T10 a couple of months ago.
>
> I'm sorry to say it, but I think he's done.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Mike

Reverse woofing noted.

You've been here a long time Mike, you *must* know we can see through you?

In message <jm08th1j99j4be5ruse52fbj4vresdsvgn@4ax.com>, Mike Holmans
<spam@jackalope.uk> writes
>On Tue, 24 Jan 2023 14:35:14 +0000, Mike Holmans <spam@jackalope.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>He's been scratching around for England, and his place has been
>>questioned. I believe we've heard that he's been hitting them well in
>>the nets and a big score is just around the corner.
>>
>>I don't believe it. He's looked completely at sea opening for Paarl
>>Royals with Jos Buttler, and the only decent score he's made all
>>winter was a 57* in a T10 a couple of months ago.
>>
>>I'm sorry to say it, but I think he's done.
>
>And there we see the reverse woof in all its pristine glory.

I was about to post the same thing. Probably best to concentrate on
Roy's innings and ignore what came after.
--
John Hall "Do you have cornflakes in America?"
"Well, actually, they're American."
"So what brings you to Britain then if you have cornflakes already?"
Bill Bryson: "Notes from a Small Island"

On Friday, January 27, 2023 at 8:22:13 PM UTC, John Hall wrote:
> In message <jm08th1j99j4be5ru...@4ax.com>, Mike Holmans
> <sp...@jackalope.uk> writes
> >On Tue, 24 Jan 2023 14:35:14 +0000, Mike Holmans <sp...@jackalope.uk>
> >wrote:
> >
> >>He's been scratching around for England, and his place has been
> >>questioned. I believe we've heard that he's been hitting them well in
> >>the nets and a big score is just around the corner.
> >>
> >>I don't believe it. He's looked completely at sea opening for Paarl
> >>Royals with Jos Buttler, and the only decent score he's made all
> >>winter was a 57* in a T10 a couple of months ago.
> >>
> >>I'm sorry to say it, but I think he's done.
> >
> >And there we see the reverse woof in all its pristine glory.
> I was about to post the same thing. Probably best to concentrate on
> Roy's innings and ignore what came after.
> --
> John Hall "Do you have cornflakes in America?"
> "Well, actually, they're American."
> "So what brings you to Britain then if you have cornflakes already?"
> Bill Bryson: "Notes from a Small Island"

The weakness in yesterday's losing side was having numbers 7-11 being either bowling allrounders or tail enders, viz: .

Sam Curran
c †de Kock b Rabada
17 21 44 0 1 80.95
David Willey
c Miller b Nortje
8 9 11 2 0 88.88
Adil Rashid
not out 14 17 29 1 0 82.35
Jofra Archer
c Klaasen b Nortje
0 4 5 0 0 0.00
Olly Stone
c & b Shamsi 1

RH

On Saturday, January 28, 2023 at 12:10:48 PM UTC, anywh...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, January 27, 2023 at 8:22:13 PM UTC, John Hall wrote:
> > In message <jm08th1j99j4be5ru...@4ax.com>, Mike Holmans
> > <sp...@jackalope.uk> writes
> > >On Tue, 24 Jan 2023 14:35:14 +0000, Mike Holmans <sp...@jackalope.uk>
> > >wrote:
> > >
> > >>He's been scratching around for England, and his place has been
> > >>questioned. I believe we've heard that he's been hitting them well in
> > >>the nets and a big score is just around the corner.
> > >>
> > >>I don't believe it. He's looked completely at sea opening for Paarl
> > >>Royals with Jos Buttler, and the only decent score he's made all
> > >>winter was a 57* in a T10 a couple of months ago.
> > >>
> > >>I'm sorry to say it, but I think he's done.
> > >
> > >And there we see the reverse woof in all its pristine glory.
> > I was about to post the same thing. Probably best to concentrate on
> > Roy's innings and ignore what came after.
> > --

I find it never works unless you mean it. That said it was a pretty
poor show by the other batters when they were given such a
platform were well ahead on rr with wkts in hand.

> The weakness in yesterday's losing side was having numbers 7-11 being either bowling allrounders or tail enders, viz: .

Isnt that usually case for england and in fact most teams. eg RSA had
Wayne Parnell, Sisanda Magala, Kagiso Rabada, Anrich Nortje,
Tabraiz Shamsi

surely the reason england lost was our middle order were careless
and got out cheaply.

mike
>
> Sam Curran
> c †de Kock b Rabada
> 17 21 44 0 1 80.95
> David Willey
> c Miller b Nortje
> 8 9 11 2 0 88.88
> Adil Rashid
> not out 14 17 29 1 0 82.35
> Jofra Archer
> c Klaasen b Nortje
> 0 4 5 0 0 0.00
> Olly Stone
> c & b Shamsi 1
>
> RH

On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 05:36:54 -0800 (PST), mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

>On Saturday, January 28, 2023 at 12:10:48 PM UTC, anywh...@gmail.com wrote:

>> The weakness in yesterday's losing side was having numbers 7-11 being either bowling allrounders or tail enders, viz: .
>
>Isnt that usually case for england and in fact most teams. eg RSA had
>Wayne Parnell, Sisanda Magala, Kagiso Rabada, Anrich Nortje,
>Tabraiz Shamsi
>
>surely the reason england lost was our middle order were careless
>and got out cheaply.

You can hardly expect the village idiot to offer useful analysis of a
game he knows nothing about.

Archer was rather wayward; I'm going to put that down to comeback
nerves. But otherwise you're right: the middle order weren't really
paying enough attention to what was happening.

Cheers,

Mike

On Saturday, January 28, 2023 at 1:36:55 PM UTC, mike wrote:
> On Saturday, January 28, 2023 at 12:10:48 PM UTC, anywh...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, January 27, 2023 at 8:22:13 PM UTC, John Hall wrote:
> > > In message <jm08th1j99j4be5ru...@4ax.com>, Mike Holmans
> > > <sp...@jackalope.uk> writes
> > > >On Tue, 24 Jan 2023 14:35:14 +0000, Mike Holmans <sp...@jackalope.uk>
> > > >wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>He's been scratching around for England, and his place has been
> > > >>questioned. I believe we've heard that he's been hitting them well in
> > > >>the nets and a big score is just around the corner.
> > > >>
> > > >>I don't believe it. He's looked completely at sea opening for Paarl
> > > >>Royals with Jos Buttler, and the only decent score he's made all
> > > >>winter was a 57* in a T10 a couple of months ago.
> > > >>
> > > >>I'm sorry to say it, but I think he's done.
> > > >
> > > >And there we see the reverse woof in all its pristine glory.
> > > I was about to post the same thing. Probably best to concentrate on
> > > Roy's innings and ignore what came after.
> > > --
> I find it never works unless you mean it. That said it was a pretty
> poor show by the other batters when they were given such a
> platform were well ahead on rr with wkts in hand.
> > The weakness in yesterday's losing side was having numbers 7-11 being either bowling allrounders or tail enders, viz: .
> Isnt that usually case for england and in fact most teams. eg RSA had
> Wayne Parnell, Sisanda Magala, Kagiso Rabada, Anrich Nortje,
> Tabraiz Shamsi

The danger with having 5 bowling allrounders or tailenders from 7-11 is that probably none of them will know how to control an innings. RH

>
> surely the reason england lost was our middle order were careless
> and got out cheaply.

But when selecting a side the selectors should take into account the likelihood that if too much responsibility is given to the late order batsman the match will on average be lost.. RH

> > Sam Curran
> > c †de Kock b Rabada
> > 17 21 44 0 1 80.95
> > David Willey
> > c Miller b Nortje
> > 8 9 11 2 0 88.88
> > Adil Rashid
> > not out 14 17 29 1 0 82.35
> > Jofra Archer
> > c Klaasen b Nortje
> > 0 4 5 0 0 0.00
> > Olly Stone
> > c & b Shamsi 1
> >
> > RH

On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 20:12:36 +0000, John Hall
<john_nospam@jhall.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <jm08th1j99j4be5ruse52fbj4vresdsvgn@4ax.com>, Mike Holmans
><spam@jackalope.uk> writes
>>On Tue, 24 Jan 2023 14:35:14 +0000, Mike Holmans <spam@jackalope.uk>

>>>I'm sorry to say it, but I think he's done.
>>
>>And there we see the reverse woof in all its pristine glory.
>
>I was about to post the same thing. Probably best to concentrate on
>Roy's innings and ignore what came after.

And that's what Roy will be hoping people do, given that his other two
innings in this little jaunt have been in line with his other recent
form.

Notwithstanding an excellent innings in the first game, he still needs
to be dropped for good.

Cheers,

Mike

On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 05:36:54 -0800 (PST), mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

>On Saturday, January 28, 2023 at 12:10:48 PM UTC, anywh...@gmail.com wrote:

>> The weakness in yesterday's losing side was having numbers 7-11 being either bowling allrounders or tail enders, viz: .
>
>Isnt that usually case for england and in fact most teams. eg RSA had
>Wayne Parnell, Sisanda Magala, Kagiso Rabada, Anrich Nortje,
>Tabraiz Shamsi

Exactly. Both sides have had the same balance between batters and
specialist bowlers/bowling all-rounders in all three matches. When
diagnosing why a team lost, accusing them of having the same team
balance as their opponents is pretty bizarre.

The village idiot understands cricket tactics and team selection about
as much as he understands Swahili.

Cheers,

Mike

In message <59ikthdub1fhr9ng42rqgu9ed6rdd06g0k@4ax.com>, Mike Holmans
<spam@jackalope.uk> writes
>On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 20:12:36 +0000, John Hall
><john_nospam@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>In message <jm08th1j99j4be5ruse52fbj4vresdsvgn@4ax.com>, Mike Holmans
>><spam@jackalope.uk> writes
>>>On Tue, 24 Jan 2023 14:35:14 +0000, Mike Holmans <spam@jackalope.uk>
>
>>>>I'm sorry to say it, but I think he's done.
>>>
>>>And there we see the reverse woof in all its pristine glory.
>>
>>I was about to post the same thing. Probably best to concentrate on
>>Roy's innings and ignore what came after.
>
>And that's what Roy will be hoping people do, given that his other two
>innings in this little jaunt have been in line with his other recent
>form.
>
>Notwithstanding an excellent innings in the first game, he still needs
>to be dropped for good.

I'd say one success and two failures - in both cases on pitches that
started off tricky to bat on - is not conclusive either way. But he'll
need to do well in Bangladesh if he's to hold on to his place.
--
John Hall "Do you have cornflakes in America?"
"Well, actually, they're American."
"So what brings you to Britain then if you have cornflakes already?"
Bill Bryson: "Notes from a Small Island"

On Wed, 1 Feb 2023 20:22:18 +0000, John Hall <john_nospam@jhall.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <59ikthdub1fhr9ng42rqgu9ed6rdd06g0k@4ax.com>, Mike Holmans
><spam@jackalope.uk> writes
>>On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 20:12:36 +0000, John Hall
>><john_nospam@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>In message <jm08th1j99j4be5ruse52fbj4vresdsvgn@4ax.com>, Mike Holmans
>>><spam@jackalope.uk> writes
>>>>On Tue, 24 Jan 2023 14:35:14 +0000, Mike Holmans <spam@jackalope.uk>
>>
>>>>>I'm sorry to say it, but I think he's done.
>>>>
>>>>And there we see the reverse woof in all its pristine glory.
>>>
>>>I was about to post the same thing. Probably best to concentrate on
>>>Roy's innings and ignore what came after.
>>
>>And that's what Roy will be hoping people do, given that his other two
>>innings in this little jaunt have been in line with his other recent
>>form.
>>
>>Notwithstanding an excellent innings in the first game, he still needs
>>to be dropped for good.
>
>I'd say one success and two failures - in both cases on pitches that
>started off tricky to bat on - is not conclusive either way. But he'll
>need to do well in Bangladesh if he's to hold on to his place.

From my perspective, it's one success and a dozen failures on pitches
ranging from the somewhat tricky to the paradisal over the last
several months. Our WC openers ought to be Hales and Bairstow.

Cheers,

Mike

In message <gqjlthpji2l1mvme43g7gudm1gmr5r2mik@4ax.com>, Mike Holmans
<spam@jackalope.uk> writes
>On Wed, 1 Feb 2023 20:22:18 +0000, John Hall <john_nospam@jhall.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <59ikthdub1fhr9ng42rqgu9ed6rdd06g0k@4ax.com>, Mike Holmans
>><spam@jackalope.uk> writes
>>>On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 20:12:36 +0000, John Hall
>>><john_nospam@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>In message <jm08th1j99j4be5ruse52fbj4vresdsvgn@4ax.com>, Mike Holmans
>>>><spam@jackalope.uk> writes
>>>>>On Tue, 24 Jan 2023 14:35:14 +0000, Mike Holmans <spam@jackalope.uk>
>>>
>>>>>>I'm sorry to say it, but I think he's done.
>>>>>
>>>>>And there we see the reverse woof in all its pristine glory.
>>>>
>>>>I was about to post the same thing. Probably best to concentrate on
>>>>Roy's innings and ignore what came after.
>>>
>>>And that's what Roy will be hoping people do, given that his other two
>>>innings in this little jaunt have been in line with his other recent
>>>form.
>>>
>>>Notwithstanding an excellent innings in the first game, he still needs
>>>to be dropped for good.
>>
>>I'd say one success and two failures - in both cases on pitches that
>>started off tricky to bat on - is not conclusive either way. But he'll
>>need to do well in Bangladesh if he's to hold on to his place.
>
>From my perspective, it's one success and a dozen failures on pitches
>ranging from the somewhat tricky to the paradisal over the last
>several months. Our WC openers ought to be Hales and Bairstow.

Yes, he's had a long run of abysmal form. He's always been a "streak"
player, though, and has had such runs of bad form before, if never quite
as bad or as long as this most recent one. But the century in the first
ODI was very much the old Roy, and so far superior to any of his recent
innings that it offers hope that he might be over his slump. Or, of
course, it could just have been a flash in the pan. It's in that context
that I said that this series wasn't conclusive either way.
--
John Hall "Do you have cornflakes in America?"
"Well, actually, they're American."
"So what brings you to Britain then if you have cornflakes already?"
Bill Bryson: "Notes from a Small Island"

On Thu, 2 Feb 2023 09:16:15 +0000, John Hall <john_nospam@jhall.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <gqjlthpji2l1mvme43g7gudm1gmr5r2mik@4ax.com>, Mike Holmans
><spam@jackalope.uk> writes

>>From my perspective, it's one success and a dozen failures on pitches
>>ranging from the somewhat tricky to the paradisal over the last
>>several months. Our WC openers ought to be Hales and Bairstow.
>
>Yes, he's had a long run of abysmal form. He's always been a "streak"
>player, though, and has had such runs of bad form before, if never quite
>as bad or as long as this most recent one. But the century in the first
>ODI was very much the old Roy, and so far superior to any of his recent
>innings that it offers hope that he might be over his slump. Or, of
>course, it could just have been a flash in the pan. It's in that context
>that I said that this series wasn't conclusive either way.

I understand why his fans, which obviously include the England
management, would want to hope that the 100 betokened the end of his
slump rather than being a poignant reminder of the player he used to
be.

I've never been much of a fan and need very little persuasion that his
time is up.

The thing is that we have an abundance of extremely capable white ball
openers available and I wouldn't number Roy in the top four of them.
Hales, Salt, and Kohler-Cadmore are more consistent and Bairstow's off
injured. I rather worry about keeping someone in a World Cup side
because he was so good in the previous one but has hardly done
anything since.

We shall, no doubt, see what we shall see.

Cheers,

Mike

In message <hn2nth5v7kfrqo6nqq954g5drpgbjg1jth@4ax.com>, Mike Holmans
<spam@jackalope.uk> writes
>The thing is that we have an abundance of extremely capable white ball
>openers available and I wouldn't number Roy in the top four of them.
>Hales, Salt, and Kohler-Cadmore are more consistent and Bairstow's off
>injured. I rather worry about keeping someone in a World Cup side
>because he was so good in the previous one but has hardly done anything
>since.

For the WC after the imminent one, assuming that there is one, I think
that our openers might be Salt and Jacks.
--
John Hall "Do you have cornflakes in America?"
"Well, actually, they're American."
"So what brings you to Britain then if you have cornflakes already?"
Bill Bryson: "Notes from a Small Island"

On Thursday, February 2, 2023 at 9:39:25 PM UTC+11, John Hall wrote:
>
> For the WC after the imminent one, assuming that there is one, I think
> that our openers might be Salt and Jacks.

Is there any hope of a Pepper coming through?

In message <28ed3795-233c-44ca-885a-fc8781546af7n@googlegroups.com>,
Hamish Laws <hamish.laws@gmail.com> writes
>On Thursday, February 2, 2023 at 9:39:25 PM UTC+11, John Hall wrote:
>>
>> For the WC after the imminent one, assuming that there is one, I think
>> that our openers might be Salt and Jacks.
>
>Is there any hope of a Pepper coming through?

Not AFAIK. I see that there's a Jack in the England U19 side currently
in Australia, so in future we could have Jacks and Jack in the same
England side, which sounds like a recipe for great confusion. :)
--
John Hall "Do you have cornflakes in America?"
"Well, actually, they're American."
"So what brings you to Britain then if you have cornflakes already?"
Bill Bryson: "Notes from a Small Island"