I trust everyone has an eye on this as it's such an exciting series. It appears Aus have maybe unearthed a new star. I watched his first 7 overs the yesterday and India didn't get him away to the boundary in his maiden spell whilst they picked off Lyon.

Nathan Lyon 30 7 85 1
Todd Murphy 29 7 68 5

I realise there's always the unknown quantity element of a new spinner but you can't help be impressed. And he's only been bowling off spin for 6 years: "Until the age of 16, he was a top-order batsman who bowled part-time seamers, before renowned spin guru Craig Howard stepped in and realised his potential as a spinner."

On Fri, 10 Feb 2023 02:10:24 -0800, Richard Dixon wrote:

> I trust everyone has an eye on this as it's such an exciting series. It
> appears Aus have maybe unearthed a new star. I watched his first 7 overs
> the yesterday and India didn't get him away to the boundary in his
> maiden spell whilst they picked off Lyon.
>
> Nathan Lyon 30 7 85 1 Todd Murphy 29 7 68 5
>
> I realise there's always the unknown quantity element of a new spinner
> but you can't help be impressed. And he's only been bowling off spin for
> 6 years: "Until the age of 16, he was a top-order batsman who bowled
> part-time seamers, before renowned spin guru Craig Howard stepped in and
> realised his potential as a spinner."

India has a bad habit of giving heaps of wickets to part time spin bowlers
like Michael Clarke, Joe Root and NEW spin bowlers like Todd Murphy, Jason
Krejza who took 12 wickets on Debut, Ajaz Patel who took 10+4 = 14 wickets
in one test.

Todd Murphy is impressive on debut but we should wait and see how he
performs on non spin friendly wickets.

On Fri, 10 Feb 2023 02:10:24 -0800 (PST), Richard Dixon
<richsdixon1975@gmail.com> wrote:

>I trust everyone has an eye on this as it's such an exciting series. It appears Aus have maybe unearthed a new star. I watched his first 7 overs the yesterday and India didn't get him away to the boundary in his maiden spell whilst they picked off Lyon.
>
>Nathan Lyon 30 7 85 1
>Todd Murphy 29 7 68 5
>
>I realise there's always the unknown quantity element of a new spinner but you can't help be impressed. And he's only been bowling off spin for 6 years: "Until the age of 16, he was a top-order batsman who bowled part-time seamers, before renowned spin guru Craig Howard stepped in and realised his potential as a spinner."
>

You can't help being impressed. I can easily help it.

I simply think of Abrar Ahmed taking 10+ on debut and having minimal
impact in subsequent matches in the series against England.

I will wait to be impressed.

Cheers,

Mike

On Friday, 10 February 2023 at 10:36:30 UTC, Mike Holmans wrote:

> I simply think of Abrar Ahmed taking 10+ on debut and having minimal
> impact in subsequent matches in the series against England.

I refer you to the previous part of that sentence "I realise there's always the unknown quantity element of a new spinner", or did you miss that?

On Fri, 10 Feb 2023 02:42:54 -0800 (PST), Richard Dixon
<richsdixon1975@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, 10 February 2023 at 10:36:30 UTC, Mike Holmans wrote:
>
>> I simply think of Abrar Ahmed taking 10+ on debut and having minimal
>> impact in subsequent matches in the series against England.
>
>I refer you to the previous part of that sentence "I realise there's always the unknown quantity element of a new spinner", or did you miss that?

Of course I did. It's the over-arching reason why I am not yet
impressed.

I'll remind you that you stated "you can't help be impressed". This is
on a par with the village idiot telling us that some unknown who takes
wickets on his CC debut is the future of English cricket. I can easily
help being impressed, and I don't particularly enjoy being told to,
even if the person doing the telling is a generally reliable source.

Cheers,

Mike

On Friday, February 10, 2023 at 10:42:55 AM UTC, Richard Dixon wrote:
> On Friday, 10 February 2023 at 10:36:30 UTC, Mike Holmans wrote:
>
> > I simply think of Abrar Ahmed taking 10+ on debut and having minimal
> > impact in subsequent matches in the series against England.
> I refer you to the previous part of that sentence "I realise there's always the unknown quantity element of a new spinner", or did you miss that?

Hilarious: Very PC Dixon meets master Unwholesome

Oh my aching sides ... RH

On Friday, 10 February 2023 at 11:02:43 UTC, Robert Henderson wrote:

> Oh my aching sides ... RH

Been watching the cricket, Robert? Thought not.

On Friday, 10 February 2023 at 10:58:36 UTC, Mike Holmans wrote:

> I'll remind you that you stated "you can't help be impressed". This is
> on a par with the village idiot telling us that some unknown who takes
> wickets on his CC debut is the future of English cricket. I can easily
> help being impressed, and I don't particularly enjoy being told to,
> even if the person doing the telling is a generally reliable source.

If I changed it to "I can't help being impressed" would you feel calmer? I hope so.

Although I'll fall short at calling him the next Messiah, thanks.

On Fri, 10 Feb 2023 03:55:47 -0800 (PST), Richard Dixon
<richsdixon1975@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, 10 February 2023 at 10:58:36 UTC, Mike Holmans wrote:
>
>> I'll remind you that you stated "you can't help be impressed". This is
>> on a par with the village idiot telling us that some unknown who takes
>> wickets on his CC debut is the future of English cricket. I can easily
>> help being impressed, and I don't particularly enjoy being told to,
>> even if the person doing the telling is a generally reliable source.
>
>If I changed it to "I can't help being impressed" would you feel calmer? I hope so.
>

I'd be ecstatic. And now that I've had my covfefe, I'm considerably
less grumpy.

But I've seen too many spectacular debuts from Bob Massie's onwards
which fizzled out by the end of the series to get over-enthusiastic
about another one.

Furthermore, the lad's Australian, and it never does any good to
encourage Australians.

Cheers,

Mike

On Fri, 10 Feb 2023 03:52:59 -0800 (PST), Richard Dixon
<richsdixon1975@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, 10 February 2023 at 11:02:43 UTC, Robert Henderson wrote:
>
>> Oh my aching sides ... RH
>
>Been watching the cricket, Robert? Thought not.

Why on earth would he? What we're watching bears scant resemblance to
his fantasies of what 1950s cricket was like (or of any other period
on which he professes to be an expert having not been born at the
time), so he probably wouldn't even recognise it.

Cheers,

Mike

On Friday, 10 February 2023 at 10:10:25 UTC, Richard Dixon wrote:
> I trust everyone has an eye on this as it's such an exciting series. It appears Aus have maybe unearthed a new star. I watched his first 7 overs the yesterday and India didn't get him away to the boundary in his maiden spell whilst they picked off Lyon.
>
> Nathan Lyon 30 7 85 1
> Todd Murphy 29 7 68 5
>
> I realise there's always the unknown quantity element of a new spinner but you can't help be impressed. And he's only been bowling off spin for 6 years: "Until the age of 16, he was a top-order batsman who bowled part-time seamers, before renowned spin guru Craig Howard stepped in and realised his potential as a spinner."

I briefly wondered who was the last player before Murphy to take his maiden FC 5-for in his first Test innings, but it was Will Jacks a couple of months ago.

In message <1f867709-6428-4d64-be4c-5962c537fae3n@googlegroups.com>,
David North <nospam@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk> writes
>On Friday, 10 February 2023 at 10:10:25 UTC, Richard Dixon wrote:
>> I trust everyone has an eye on this as it's such an exciting series.
>>It appears Aus have maybe unearthed a new star. I watched his first 7
>>overs the yesterday and India didn't get him away to the boundary in
>>his maiden spell whilst they picked off Lyon.
>>
>> Nathan Lyon 30 7 85 1
>> Todd Murphy 29 7 68 5

Unless Lyon was having a real off-day, it's startling for the newbie to
have out-bowled such an experienced and good Test bowler..

>>
>> I realise there's always the unknown quantity element of a new
>>spinner but you can't help be impressed. And he's only been bowling
>>off spin for 6 years: "Until the age of 16, he was a top-order batsman
>>who bowled part-time seamers, before renowned spin guru Craig Howard
>>stepped in and realised his potential as a spinner."
>
>I briefly wondered who was the last player before Murphy to take his
>maiden FC 5-for in his first Test innings, but it was Will Jacks a
>couple of months ago.

Though I'm a great admirer of Jacks, I suspect that Murphy will have the
more significant Test career - as a bowler at any rate.
--
John Hall "Do you have cornflakes in America?"
"Well, actually, they're American."
"So what brings you to Britain then if you have cornflakes already?"
Bill Bryson: "Notes from a Small Island"

On Fri, 10 Feb 2023 14:40:05 +0000, John Hall
<john_nospam@jhall.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <1f867709-6428-4d64-be4c-5962c537fae3n@googlegroups.com>,
>David North <nospam@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk> writes
>>On Friday, 10 February 2023 at 10:10:25 UTC, Richard Dixon wrote:
>>> I trust everyone has an eye on this as it's such an exciting series.
>>>It appears Aus have maybe unearthed a new star. I watched his first 7
>>>overs the yesterday and India didn't get him away to the boundary in
>>>his maiden spell whilst they picked off Lyon.
>>>
>>> Nathan Lyon 30 7 85 1
>>> Todd Murphy 29 7 68 5
>
>Unless Lyon was having a real off-day, it's startling for the newbie to
>have out-bowled such an experienced and good Test bowler..

As I've been saying while replying to Richard, I don't find it at all
startling that a bowler no-one has seen before gets better results
than one they've played against and studied endless videos of. Worth
taking note of, sure, but let's see if he can repeat it in subsequent
matches.

Cheers,

Mike

On Friday, February 10, 2023 at 2:42:41 PM UTC, John Hall wrote:
> In message <1f867709-6428-4d64...@googlegroups.com>,
> David North <nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk> writes
> >On Friday, 10 February 2023 at 10:10:25 UTC, Richard Dixon wrote:
> >> I trust everyone has an eye on this as it's such an exciting series.
> >>It appears Aus have maybe unearthed a new star. I watched his first 7
> >>overs the yesterday and India didn't get him away to the boundary in
> >>his maiden spell whilst they picked off Lyon.
> >>
> >> Nathan Lyon 30 7 85 1
> >> Todd Murphy 29 7 68 5
> Unless Lyon was having a real off-day, it's startling for the newbie to
> have out-bowled such an experienced and good Test bowler..

so oz chose 2 off spinners and india chose 2 leftys and 1 offy.
but no legspinner in either side. I notice Murphy bowls in
glasses, like Leach. I remember Kumble did so and Doshi.
Of quick bowlers, Malcolm at first and Moseley of somerset.

> >>
> >> I realise there's always the unknown quantity element of a new
> >>spinner but you can't help be impressed. And he's only been bowling
> >>off spin for 6 years: "Until the age of 16, he was a top-order batsman
> >>who bowled part-time seamers, before renowned spin guru Craig Howard
> >>stepped in and realised his potential as a spinner."

who is this guru? I'm guessing if hes renowned he must have 'discovered' warne?

> >
> >I briefly wondered who was the last player before Murphy to take his
> >maiden FC 5-for in his first Test innings, but it was Will Jacks a
> >couple of months ago.
> Though I'm a great admirer of Jacks, I suspect that Murphy will have the
> more significant Test career - as a bowler at any rate.

but i'm guessing also that jacks hasnt bowled offspin for 6 years?

mike

On Fri, 10 Feb 2023 03:52:59 -0800 (PST), Richard Dixon
<richsdixon1975@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, 10 February 2023 at 11:02:43 UTC, Robert Henderson wrote:
>
>> Oh my aching sides ... RH
>
>Been watching the cricket, Robert? Thought not.

He's probably had too much haggis again. He'll be back to posting his
usual bran flakes and prunes again soon I'm sure.

max.it

On 10/02/2023 15:28, mike wrote:
> On Friday, February 10, 2023 at 2:42:41 PM UTC, John Hall wrote:
>> In message <1f867709-6428-4d64...@googlegroups.com>,
>> David North <nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk> writes
>>> On Friday, 10 February 2023 at 10:10:25 UTC, Richard Dixon wrote:
>>>> I trust everyone has an eye on this as it's such an exciting series.
>>>> It appears Aus have maybe unearthed a new star. I watched his first 7
>>>> overs the yesterday and India didn't get him away to the boundary in
>>>> his maiden spell whilst they picked off Lyon.
>>>>
>>>> Nathan Lyon 30 7 85 1
>>>> Todd Murphy 29 7 68 5
>> Unless Lyon was having a real off-day, it's startling for the newbie to
>> have out-bowled such an experienced and good Test bowler..
>
> so oz chose 2 off spinners and india chose 2 leftys and 1 offy.
> but no legspinner in either side. I notice Murphy bowls in
> glasses, like Leach. I remember Kumble did so and Doshi.

So did Daniel Vettori, and also Alf Valentine after obtaining them
during the 1950 tour of England. Narendra Hirwani was another
spectacle-wearer who, like Murphy, did rather well on debut.

> Of quick bowlers, Malcolm at first and Moseley of somerset.
>
>
>>>>
>>>> I realise there's always the unknown quantity element of a new
>>>> spinner but you can't help be impressed. And he's only been bowling
>>>> off spin for 6 years: "Until the age of 16, he was a top-order batsman
>>>> who bowled part-time seamers, before renowned spin guru Craig Howard
>>>> stepped in and realised his potential as a spinner."
>
> who is this guru? I'm guessing if hes renowned he must have 'discovered' warne?
>
>>>
>>> I briefly wondered who was the last player before Murphy to take his
>>> maiden FC 5-for in his first Test innings, but it was Will Jacks a
>>> couple of months ago.
>> Though I'm a great admirer of Jacks, I suspect that Murphy will have the
>> more significant Test career - as a bowler at any rate.

You'd think so. Murphy went into his Test debut with 29 FC wickets in 7
matches at 25.20, whereas Jacks had 21 at 53.28 in 41 matches.

> but i'm guessing also that jacks hasnt bowled offspin for 6 years?

I have no idea whether he has always bowled off spin, but he didn't bowl
at all in the first 36 matches that CricketArchive lists for him from
2012 to 2015 (mostly for Surrey at U-13 to U-17 level), and only started
bowling regularly from the middle of the 2016 season.

--
David North

On Saturday, 11 February 2023 at 06:57:25 UTC, David North wrote:

> So did Daniel Vettori

....who is the spin bowling coach of Aus now!

On Sat, 11 Feb 2023 03:14:31 -0800 (PST), Richard Dixon
<richsdixon1975@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, 11 February 2023 at 06:57:25 UTC, David North wrote:
>
>> So did Daniel Vettori
>
>...who is the spin bowling coach of Aus now!

For all the good it did them. What a thrashing.

Cheers,

Mike

On Saturday, February 11, 2023 at 11:56:19 AM UTC, Mike Holmans wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Feb 2023 03:14:31 -0800 (PST), Richard Dixon
> <richsdi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Saturday, 11 February 2023 at 06:57:25 UTC, David North wrote:
> >
> >> So did Daniel Vettori
> >
> >...who is the spin bowling coach of Aus now!
> For all the good it did them. What a thrashing.
>

Wonder what bazball would do on a turner in india? dont we
go to india again next winter? last time we surprised everybody
by winning at chennai, then were very dissapointing in the
2nd and abject in the last 2. Thankfully there wasnt a 5th.

mike

On Sat, 11 Feb 2023 11:56:17 +0000, Mike Holmans wrote:

> On Sat, 11 Feb 2023 03:14:31 -0800 (PST), Richard Dixon
> <richsdixon1975@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Saturday, 11 February 2023 at 06:57:25 UTC, David North wrote:
>>
>>> So did Daniel Vettori
>>
>>...who is the spin bowling coach of Aus now!
>
> For all the good it did them. What a thrashing.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Mike

Ashwin's ability to reinvent himself sets him apart from Lyon

It's not just the home advantage. Ashwin has constantly added new layers
to his skillset right through his career

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/r-ashwins-ability-to-reinvent-himself-
sets-him-apart-from-nathan-lyon-1358450

But there was something slightly mechanical about how Lyon and Murphy
plugged away as well, as if they were following an instruction manual on
how to bowl on Indian pitches. Ashwin varied his pace a lot more, even
venturing into the low 80s on occasion - Lyon and Murphy seldom dropped
below 90kph - and seemed to try different things against different
batters. It was that feel thing again.

Lyon, a bowler on his fourth Test tour of India, bowled 49 overs and took
just one wicket. Of all the performances that made up Australia's defeat
in Nagpur, perhaps none would disappoint their team management as much as
Lyon's. As in his last Test match before this tour, against South Africa
in Sydney, where he took two wickets in 55 overs in a rain-affected draw,
his bowling commanded respect from the opposition but didn't look like
much of a wicket threat. The common thread between Sydney and Nagpur? A
lack of bounce.

In an era where DRS has made fingerspinners target bowled and lbw more
than ever, Lyon is something of a throwback, his wicket-taking threat
directly proportional to the bounce on offer. The 2016-17 tour of India
was a case in point. Lyon played a largely supporting role to Steve
O'Keefe in Australia's unexpected win on a Pune dustbowl, where sharp turn
and natural variation were the main threats rather than bounce, and he
bowled only 46 overs to O'Keefe's 77 - while conceding nearly a run an
over more - in the drawn third Test on a slow and low surface in Ranchi.

When bounce became a factor, Lyon became an entirely different bowler.

On day one in Bengaluru on that tour, the combination of early moisture in
the topsoil and Mitchell Starc's follow-through at the other end gave him
footmarks to work with, and he made the ball turn and jump out of them to
take eight wickets. In the fourth Test on a Dharamsala trampoline, his
first-innings five-for gave Australia a genuine chance of victory before
India's lower order and bowlers snatched it away.

Whenever the conditions were somewhat reminiscent of Australia, Lyon was
exceedingly dangerous. On pitches where bowled and lbw were likelier modes
of dismissal than bat-pad catches or edges flying to slip, his threat was
greatly diminished.

Lyon's record in India reflects this duality: he has three five-fors in
eight Tests, but he averages 33.31. Ashwin averages 21.78 in the eight
Tests Lyon has played in India.

Ashwin, meanwhile, has played 10 Tests in Australia, where he's taken 39
wickets at 42.15. Not very impressive, you might think, but in those ten
Tests, Lyon has taken 32 wickets at 42.40. Ashwin's performances in
Australia have improved with each tour, to the extent that he has
outbowled Lyon on India's last two tours in 2018-19 and 2020-21, averaging
27.50 to Lyon's 37.83.

Ashwin did this not by trying to bowl like Lyon, but by finding ways to
make his own style work in Australian conditions. He has constantly added
new layers to his skillset right through his career, experimenting even
when the world has told him not to fix something that isn't broken, and
it's this quality that Rohit picked out when asked, during his post-match
press conference, why Ashwin was able to get so much more out of this
Nagpur pitch than Australia's offspinners.

On 12/02/2023 07:58, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer wrote:

> Lyon's record in India reflects this duality: he has three five-fors in
> eight Tests, but he averages 33.31. Ashwin averages 21.78 in the eight
> Tests Lyon has played in India.
>
> Ashwin, meanwhile, has played 10 Tests in Australia, where he's taken 39
> wickets at 42.15. Not very impressive, you might think, but in those ten
> Tests, Lyon has taken 32 wickets at 42.40. Ashwin's performances in
> Australia have improved with each tour, to the extent that he has
> outbowled Lyon on India's last two tours in 2018-19 and 2020-21, averaging
> 27.50 to Lyon's 37.83.

Ashwin only played one Test in 2018/19, taking 6 wickets at 24.83,
compared to Lyon's 8 at 25.62 in that match, so it was really only in
the 2020/21 series that he "outbowled" Lyon in Australia. Of course,
Ashwin had the advantage of not having to bowl to the Indian batsmen,
who tend to be better players of spin than the Australians, which
probably accounts for _some_ of the difference in their stats in those
series (not that I am suggesting that Ashwin isn't the better bowler).

--
David North

On Sun, 12 Feb 2023 19:45:29 +0000, David North wrote:

> On 12/02/2023 07:58, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer wrote:
>
>> Lyon's record in India reflects this duality: he has three five-fors in
>> eight Tests, but he averages 33.31. Ashwin averages 21.78 in the eight
>> Tests Lyon has played in India.
>>
>> Ashwin, meanwhile, has played 10 Tests in Australia, where he's taken
>> 39 wickets at 42.15. Not very impressive, you might think, but in those
>> ten Tests, Lyon has taken 32 wickets at 42.40. Ashwin's performances in
>> Australia have improved with each tour, to the extent that he has
>> outbowled Lyon on India's last two tours in 2018-19 and 2020-21,
>> averaging 27.50 to Lyon's 37.83.
>
> Ashwin only played one Test in 2018/19, taking 6 wickets at 24.83,
> compared to Lyon's 8 at 25.62 in that match, so it was really only in
> the 2020/21 series that he "outbowled" Lyon in Australia. Of course,
> Ashwin had the advantage of not having to bowl to the Indian batsmen,
> who tend to be better players of spin than the Australians, which
> probably accounts for _some_ of the difference in their stats in those
> series (not that I am suggesting that Ashwin isn't the better bowler).

But Australian pitches are NOT conducive to spin, so ANY advantage of
Indian batsmen being better players of spin is moot.

Secondly, Lyon had the advantage of playing on FAMILIAR HOME PITCHES while
Ashwin HAD TO ADAPT to australian pitches.

Moreover Indian batsmen were BUSY focusing on HOW to tackle fast bowlers
Hazlewood, Starc, Cummins on Australian pitches.

The columnist compared Ashwin and Lyons records of all tests on Australian
pitches BECAUSE comparison of just one test is pointless.

On Monday, 13 February 2023 at 08:28:13 UTC, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Feb 2023 19:45:29 +0000, David North wrote:
>
> > On 12/02/2023 07:58, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer wrote:
> >
> >> Lyon's record in India reflects this duality: he has three five-fors in
> >> eight Tests, but he averages 33.31. Ashwin averages 21.78 in the eight
> >> Tests Lyon has played in India.
> >>
> >> Ashwin, meanwhile, has played 10 Tests in Australia, where he's taken
> >> 39 wickets at 42.15. Not very impressive, you might think, but in those
> >> ten Tests, Lyon has taken 32 wickets at 42.40. Ashwin's performances in
> >> Australia have improved with each tour, to the extent that he has
> >> outbowled Lyon on India's last two tours in 2018-19 and 2020-21,
> >> averaging 27.50 to Lyon's 37.83.
> >
> > Ashwin only played one Test in 2018/19, taking 6 wickets at 24.83,
> > compared to Lyon's 8 at 25.62 in that match, so it was really only in
> > the 2020/21 series that he "outbowled" Lyon in Australia. Of course,
> > Ashwin had the advantage of not having to bowl to the Indian batsmen,
> > who tend to be better players of spin than the Australians, which
> > probably accounts for _some_ of the difference in their stats in those
> > series (not that I am suggesting that Ashwin isn't the better bowler).
> But Australian pitches are NOT conducive to spin, so ANY advantage of
> Indian batsmen being better players of spin is moot.

Better players of spin will still tend to play it better than others, even on pitches that don't help spinners.

> Secondly, Lyon had the advantage of playing on FAMILIAR HOME PITCHES while
> Ashwin HAD TO ADAPT to australian pitches.

Sure - the columnist more or less implied that.

> Moreover Indian batsmen were BUSY focusing on HOW to tackle fast bowlers
> Hazlewood, Starc, Cummins on Australian pitches.

.... but they didn't suddenly forget how to play spin.

> The columnist compared Ashwin and Lyons records of all tests on Australian
> pitches BECAUSE comparison of just one test is pointless.

He claimed that Ashwin "outbowled Lyon on India's last two tours in 2018-19 and 2020-21". Most people would take that to mean that he outbowled him on each of those tours, rather than on the two combined.

On Mon, 13 Feb 2023 06:05:26 -0800, David North wrote:

> On Monday, 13 February 2023 at 08:28:13 UTC, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
> wrote:
>> On Sun, 12 Feb 2023 19:45:29 +0000, David North wrote:
>>
>> > On 12/02/2023 07:58, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer wrote:
>> >
>> >> Lyon's record in India reflects this duality: he has three five-fors
>> >> in eight Tests, but he averages 33.31. Ashwin averages 21.78 in the
>> >> eight Tests Lyon has played in India.
>> >>
>> >> Ashwin, meanwhile, has played 10 Tests in Australia, where he's
>> >> taken 39 wickets at 42.15. Not very impressive, you might think, but
>> >> in those ten Tests, Lyon has taken 32 wickets at 42.40. Ashwin's
>> >> performances in Australia have improved with each tour, to the
>> >> extent that he has outbowled Lyon on India's last two tours in
>> >> 2018-19 and 2020-21, averaging 27.50 to Lyon's 37.83.
>> >
>> > Ashwin only played one Test in 2018/19, taking 6 wickets at 24.83,
>> > compared to Lyon's 8 at 25.62 in that match, so it was really only in
>> > the 2020/21 series that he "outbowled" Lyon in Australia. Of course,
>> > Ashwin had the advantage of not having to bowl to the Indian batsmen,
>> > who tend to be better players of spin than the Australians, which
>> > probably accounts for _some_ of the difference in their stats in
>> > those series (not that I am suggesting that Ashwin isn't the better
>> > bowler).
>> But Australian pitches are NOT conducive to spin, so ANY advantage of
>> Indian batsmen being better players of spin is moot.
>
> Better players of spin will still tend to play it better than others,
> even on pitches that don't help spinners.
>
>> Secondly, Lyon had the advantage of playing on FAMILIAR HOME PITCHES
>> while Ashwin HAD TO ADAPT to australian pitches.
>
> Sure - the columnist more or less implied that.
>
>> Moreover Indian batsmen were BUSY focusing on HOW to tackle fast
>> bowlers Hazlewood, Starc, Cummins on Australian pitches.
>
> ... but they didn't suddenly forget how to play spin.
>
>> The columnist compared Ashwin and Lyons records of all tests on
>> Australian pitches BECAUSE comparison of just one test is pointless.
>
> He claimed that Ashwin "outbowled Lyon on India's last two tours in
> 2018-19 and 2020-21". Most people would take that to mean that he
> outbowled him on each of those tours, rather than on the two combined.

The columnist probably meant to compare Ashwin and Lyon's records of all
tests on Australian pitches but made a mistake using the words "2018-19,
2020-21" tours, because it is NOT possible for him to be that dumb to NOT
notice that both have identical performances in the 2018-2019 series, like
you pointed out.

On Fri, 10 Feb 2023 15:10:41 +0000, Mike Holmans <spam@jackalope.uk>
wrote:

>On Fri, 10 Feb 2023 14:40:05 +0000, John Hall
><john_nospam@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>In message <1f867709-6428-4d64-be4c-5962c537fae3n@googlegroups.com>,
>>David North <nospam@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk> writes
>>>On Friday, 10 February 2023 at 10:10:25 UTC, Richard Dixon wrote:
>>>> I trust everyone has an eye on this as it's such an exciting series.
>>>>It appears Aus have maybe unearthed a new star. I watched his first 7
>>>>overs the yesterday and India didn't get him away to the boundary in
>>>>his maiden spell whilst they picked off Lyon.
>>>>
>>>> Nathan Lyon 30 7 85 1
>>>> Todd Murphy 29 7 68 5
>>
>>Unless Lyon was having a real off-day, it's startling for the newbie to
>>have out-bowled such an experienced and good Test bowler..
>
>As I've been saying while replying to Richard, I don't find it at all
>startling that a bowler no-one has seen before gets better results
>than one they've played against and studied endless videos of. Worth
>taking note of, sure, but let's see if he can repeat it in subsequent
>matches.

At the time of writing today - Lyon 5/40, Murphy 1/36.

Cheers,

Mike