"If I discover a young spinner on the (insert county) staff, I would
not allow him to play in limited-overs competition matches for two to
three years because I believe it would ruin him as a prospect before
his career had really got off the ground"

max.it

On Tuesday, February 14, 2023 at 10:52:09 PM UTC, max.it wrote:
> "If I discover a young spinner on the (insert county) staff, I would
> not allow him to play in limited-overs competition matches for two to
> three years because I believe it would ruin him as a prospect before
> his career had really got off the ground"
>
> max.it

was it RH?

nowadays it seems most young spinners play more lmtd overs matches etc than
FC games per season.

mike

On Tue, 14 Feb 2023 15:24:57 -0800 (PST), mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

>On Tuesday, February 14, 2023 at 10:52:09 PM UTC, max.it wrote:
>> "If I discover a young spinner on the (insert county) staff, I would
>> not allow him to play in limited-overs competition matches for two to
>> three years because I believe it would ruin him as a prospect before
>> his career had really got off the ground"
>>
>> max.it
>
>was it RH?
>
>nowadays it seems most young spinners play more lmtd overs matches etc than
>FC games per season.

It wasn't the village idiot, and I'd hope that by now the bloke who
actually did say it wouldn't say it any more. When he said it, I
agreed with him partly because I didn't know any better and partly
because Shane Warne had not yet revolutionised spin bowling in T20.

In those days, slow bowlers in white ball cricket simply fired flat
darts at batters' legs and never bothered with turn or guile because
captains thought that slowing it down and giving it air was tantamount
to giving boundaries away.

But once scoring rates off pace bowlers regularly went above 9 an
over, the typical spinner's ER of 6 an over was no longer an
unaffordable luxury but really quite economical, so spinners came back
into their own and wrist-spinners became the most valuable properties
in the marketplace.

Cheers,

Mike

On Tuesday, February 14, 2023 at 10:52:09 PM UTC, max.it wrote:
> "If I discover a young spinner on the (insert county) staff, I would
> not allow him to play in limited-overs competition matches for two to
> three years because I believe it would ruin him as a prospect before
> his career had really got off the ground"
>
> max.it

Sound advice. RH

On Wednesday, February 15, 2023 at 7:50:18 AM UTC, Mike Holmans wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Feb 2023 15:24:57 -0800 (PST), mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk>
> wrote:
> >On Tuesday, February 14, 2023 at 10:52:09 PM UTC, max.it wrote:
> >> "If I discover a young spinner on the (insert county) staff, I would
> >> not allow him to play in limited-overs competition matches for two to
> >> three years because I believe it would ruin him as a prospect before
> >> his career had really got off the ground"
> >>
> >> max.it
> >
> >was it RH?
> >
> >nowadays it seems most young spinners play more lmtd overs matches etc than
> >FC games per season.
> It wasn't the village idiot, and I'd hope that by now the bloke who
> actually did say it wouldn't say it any more. When he said it, I
> agreed with him partly because I didn't know any better and partly
> because Shane Warne had not yet revolutionised spin bowling in T20.
>
> In those days, slow bowlers in white ball cricket simply fired flat
> darts at batters' legs and never bothered with turn or guile because
> captains thought that slowing it down and giving it air was tantamount
> to giving boundaries away.

> Cheers,
>
> Mike

Oh dear master Unwholesome reveals his abysmal knowledge of cricket's history. Finger spinners in particular used the restriction of run scoring as a deliberate and effective tactic to frustrate batsmen and spinners were particularly dangerous when bowling in tandem.
RH

On Wednesday, 15 February 2023 at 09:17:38 UTC, Robert Henderson wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 15, 2023 at 7:50:18 AM UTC, Mike Holmans wrote:
> > On Tue, 14 Feb 2023 15:24:57 -0800 (PST), mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk>
> > wrote:
> > >On Tuesday, February 14, 2023 at 10:52:09 PM UTC, max.it wrote:
> > >> "If I discover a young spinner on the (insert county) staff, I would
> > >> not allow him to play in limited-overs competition matches for two to
> > >> three years because I believe it would ruin him as a prospect before
> > >> his career had really got off the ground"
> > >>
> > >> max.it
> > >
> > >was it RH?
> > >
> > >nowadays it seems most young spinners play more lmtd overs matches etc than
> > >FC games per season.
> > It wasn't the village idiot, and I'd hope that by now the bloke who
> > actually did say it wouldn't say it any more. When he said it, I
> > agreed with him partly because I didn't know any better and partly
> > because Shane Warne had not yet revolutionised spin bowling in T20.
> >
> > In those days, slow bowlers in white ball cricket simply fired flat
> > darts at batters' legs and never bothered with turn or guile because
> > captains thought that slowing it down and giving it air was tantamount
> > to giving boundaries away.
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Mike
>
> Oh dear master Unwholesome reveals his abysmal knowledge of cricket's history. Finger spinners in particular used the restriction of run scoring as a deliberate and effective tactic to frustrate batsmen and spinners were particularly dangerous when bowling in tandem.
> RH
>
>
How recent exactly was that quote made?

On Wed, 15 Feb 2023 01:37:14 -0800 (PST), Najeeb ybo
<najeebybo@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, 15 February 2023 at 09:17:38 UTC, Robert Henderson wrote:
>> On Wednesday, February 15, 2023 at 7:50:18 AM UTC, Mike Holmans wrote:
>> > On Tue, 14 Feb 2023 15:24:57 -0800 (PST), mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk>
>> > wrote:
>> > >On Tuesday, February 14, 2023 at 10:52:09 PM UTC, max.it wrote:
>> > >> "If I discover a young spinner on the (insert county) staff, I would
>> > >> not allow him to play in limited-overs competition matches for two to
>> > >> three years because I believe it would ruin him as a prospect before
>> > >> his career had really got off the ground"
>> > >>
>> > >> max.it
>> > >
>> > >was it RH?
>> > >
>> > >nowadays it seems most young spinners play more lmtd overs matches etc than
>> > >FC games per season.
>> > It wasn't the village idiot, and I'd hope that by now the bloke who
>> > actually did say it wouldn't say it any more. When he said it, I
>> > agreed with him partly because I didn't know any better and partly
>> > because Shane Warne had not yet revolutionised spin bowling in T20.
>> >
>> > In those days, slow bowlers in white ball cricket simply fired flat
>> > darts at batters' legs and never bothered with turn or guile because
>> > captains thought that slowing it down and giving it air was tantamount
>> > to giving boundaries away.
>> > Cheers,
>> >
>> > Mike
>>
>> Oh dear master Unwholesome reveals his abysmal knowledge of cricket's history. Finger spinners in particular used the restriction of run scoring as a deliberate and effective tactic to frustrate batsmen and spinners were particularly dangerous when bowling in tandem.
>> RH
>>
>>
>How recent exactly was that quote made?

As usual, the village idiot thinks that the only decade in which
people played cricket was the 1950s.

The original quote looks to have come from the late 20th century, when
the continual complaint was that spinners in 50/40-over games never
bothered to give the ball air, and the village idiot was no doubt
blaming the as yet uninvented T20 as the cause.

And whoever said it was almost certainly correct. Then. It is only
since Warne won the IPL by bowling sharply-spun attacking wrist-spin
that the scales fell from captains' eyes and they started realising
that in white-ball cricket, spinners are best deployed as an attacking
option and that vicious spin and letting the ball hang in the air is
vital. It is therefore no longer the case that an inexperienced
spinner should be restricted to red-ball cricket until they know what
they're doing: they will now learn a hell of a lot playing T20.

Amazing, isn't it, that the game evolves over time, and that different
periods bring forth different skills?

Cheers,

Mike

On Wed, 15 Feb 2023 10:18:33 +0000, Mike Holmans <spam@jackalope.uk>
wrote:

>On Wed, 15 Feb 2023 01:37:14 -0800 (PST), Najeeb ybo
><najeebybo@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wednesday, 15 February 2023 at 09:17:38 UTC, Robert Henderson wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, February 15, 2023 at 7:50:18 AM UTC, Mike Holmans wrote:
>>> > On Tue, 14 Feb 2023 15:24:57 -0800 (PST), mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk>
>>> > wrote:
>>> > >On Tuesday, February 14, 2023 at 10:52:09 PM UTC, max.it wrote:
>>> > >> "If I discover a young spinner on the (insert county) staff, I would
>>> > >> not allow him to play in limited-overs competition matches for two to
>>> > >> three years because I believe it would ruin him as a prospect before
>>> > >> his career had really got off the ground"
>>> > >>
>>> > >> max.it
>>> > >
>>> > >was it RH?
>>> > >
>>> > >nowadays it seems most young spinners play more lmtd overs matches etc than
>>> > >FC games per season.
>>> > It wasn't the village idiot, and I'd hope that by now the bloke who
>>> > actually did say it wouldn't say it any more. When he said it, I
>>> > agreed with him partly because I didn't know any better and partly
>>> > because Shane Warne had not yet revolutionised spin bowling in T20.
>>> >
>>> > In those days, slow bowlers in white ball cricket simply fired flat
>>> > darts at batters' legs and never bothered with turn or guile because
>>> > captains thought that slowing it down and giving it air was tantamount
>>> > to giving boundaries away.
>>> > Cheers,
>>> >
>>> > Mike
>>>
>>> Oh dear master Unwholesome reveals his abysmal knowledge of cricket's history. Finger spinners in particular used the restriction of run scoring as a deliberate and effective tactic to frustrate batsmen and spinners were particularly dangerous when bowling in tandem.
>>> RH
>>>
>>>
>>How recent exactly was that quote made?
>
>As usual, the village idiot thinks that the only decade in which
>people played cricket was the 1950s.
>
>The original quote looks to have come from the late 20th century, when
>the continual complaint was that spinners in 50/40-over games never
>bothered to give the ball air, and the village idiot was no doubt
>blaming the as yet uninvented T20 as the cause.
>
>And whoever said it was almost certainly correct. Then. It is only
>since Warne won the IPL by bowling sharply-spun attacking wrist-spin
>that the scales fell from captains' eyes and they started realising
>that in white-ball cricket, spinners are best deployed as an attacking
>option and that vicious spin and letting the ball hang in the air is
>vital. It is therefore no longer the case that an inexperienced
>spinner should be restricted to red-ball cricket until they know what
>they're doing: they will now learn a hell of a lot playing T20.
>
>Amazing, isn't it, that the game evolves over time, and that different
>periods bring forth different skills?
>
>Cheers,
>
>Mike

Yup, 1973 August edition 'The Cricketer'. The captain's coloumn, Ray
Illingworth's turn to write.

The piece before the quoted part was basically what you said about the
bowling styles of the time and the different types of cricket being
played.

max.it

On Wed, 15 Feb 2023 10:53:09 +0000, max.it <max@tea.time> wrote:

>On Wed, 15 Feb 2023 10:18:33 +0000, Mike Holmans <spam@jackalope.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 15 Feb 2023 01:37:14 -0800 (PST), Najeeb ybo
>><najeebybo@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Wednesday, 15 February 2023 at 09:17:38 UTC, Robert Henderson wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, February 15, 2023 at 7:50:18 AM UTC, Mike Holmans wrote:

>>>> > It wasn't the village idiot, and I'd hope that by now the bloke who
>>>> > actually did say it wouldn't say it any more. When he said it, I
>>>> > agreed with him partly because I didn't know any better and partly
>>>> > because Shane Warne had not yet revolutionised spin bowling in T20.
>>>> >
>>>> > In those days, slow bowlers in white ball cricket simply fired flat
>>>> > darts at batters' legs and never bothered with turn or guile because
>>>> > captains thought that slowing it down and giving it air was tantamount
>>>> > to giving boundaries away.
>>>>
>>>> Oh dear master Unwholesome reveals his abysmal knowledge of cricket's history.
>>>> RH
>>>>
>>>>
>>>How recent exactly was that quote made?
>>
>>As usual, the village idiot thinks that the only decade in which
>>people played cricket was the 1950s.
>>
>>The original quote looks to have come from the late 20th century, when
>>the continual complaint was that spinners in 50/40-over games never
>>bothered to give the ball air, and the village idiot was no doubt
>>blaming the as yet uninvented T20 as the cause.
>
>Yup, 1973 August edition 'The Cricketer'. The captain's coloumn, Ray
>Illingworth's turn to write.
>
>The piece before the quoted part was basically what you said about the
>bowling styles of the time and the different types of cricket being
>played.

Translation: my knowledge of cricket history post-1963 is infinitely
better than the village idiot's.

Cheers,

Mike

On Wednesday, February 15, 2023 at 11:14:34 AM UTC, Mike Holmans wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Feb 2023 10:53:09 +0000, max.it <m...@tea.time> wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 15 Feb 2023 10:18:33 +0000, Mike Holmans <sp...@jackalope.uk>
> >wrote:
> >
> >>On Wed, 15 Feb 2023 01:37:14 -0800 (PST), Najeeb ybo
> >><naje...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>On Wednesday, 15 February 2023 at 09:17:38 UTC, Robert Henderson wrote:
> >>>> On Wednesday, February 15, 2023 at 7:50:18 AM UTC, Mike Holmans wrote:
>
> >>>> > It wasn't the village idiot, and I'd hope that by now the bloke who
> >>>> > actually did say it wouldn't say it any more. When he said it, I
> >>>> > agreed with him partly because I didn't know any better and partly
> >>>> > because Shane Warne had not yet revolutionised spin bowling in T20.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > In those days, slow bowlers in white ball cricket simply fired flat
> >>>> > darts at batters' legs and never bothered with turn or guile because
> >>>> > captains thought that slowing it down and giving it air was tantamount
> >>>> > to giving boundaries away.
> >>>>
> >>>> Oh dear master Unwholesome reveals his abysmal knowledge of cricket's history.
> >>>> RH
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>How recent exactly was that quote made?
> >>
> >>As usual, the village idiot thinks that the only decade in which
> >>people played cricket was the 1950s.
> >>
> >>The original quote looks to have come from the late 20th century, when
> >>the continual complaint was that spinners in 50/40-over games never
> >>bothered to give the ball air, and the village idiot was no doubt
> >>blaming the as yet uninvented T20 as the cause.
> >
> >Yup, 1973 August edition 'The Cricketer'. The captain's coloumn, Ray
> >Illingworth's turn to write.
> >
> >The piece before the quoted part was basically what you said about the
> >bowling styles of the time and the different types of cricket being
> >played.
> Translation: my knowledge of cricket history post-1963 is infinitely
> better than the village idiot's.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Mike

master Unwholesome burst into tears and Stamps his foot.........RH

On Wednesday, February 15, 2023 at 8:18:40 PM UTC+10, Mike Holmans wrote:
> And whoever said it was almost certainly correct. Then. It is only
> since Warne won the IPL by bowling sharply-spun attacking wrist-spin
> that the scales fell from captains' eyes and they started realising
> that in white-ball cricket, spinners are best deployed as an attacking
> option and that vicious spin and letting the ball hang in the air is
> vital. It is therefore no longer the case that an inexperienced
> spinner should be restricted to red-ball cricket until they know what
> they're doing: they will now learn a hell of a lot playing T20.

This knowledge pre-dates 2008 (Warne's first IPL year, and win).

Spinners, which I'm hesitant to myself (as I don't turn it that much), *love* it when batsmen attack us, as it greatly increases the chance of taking a wicket.

It just so happens that in T20 batsmen don't have the option to "see off a bowler".

By the time Shane Warne played his first IPL game he'd played 191 ODOs, and taken 293 wickets @ 25.73.
Do you really think no one knew by then that he was an attacking option?

On Thursday, February 16, 2023 at 3:22:56 AM UTC, jack fredricks wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 15, 2023 at 8:18:40 PM UTC+10, Mike Holmans wrote:
> > And whoever said it was almost certainly correct. Then. It is only
> > since Warne won the IPL by bowling sharply-spun attacking wrist-spin
> > that the scales fell from captains' eyes and they started realising
> > that in white-ball cricket, spinners are best deployed as an attacking
> > option and that vicious spin and letting the ball hang in the air is
> > vital. It is therefore no longer the case that an inexperienced
> > spinner should be restricted to red-ball cricket until they know what
> > they're doing: they will now learn a hell of a lot playing T20.
> This knowledge pre-dates 2008 (Warne's first IPL year, and win).
>
> Spinners, which I'm hesitant to myself (as I don't turn it that much), *love* it when batsmen attack us, as it greatly increases the chance of taking a wicket.
>
> It just so happens that in T20 batsmen don't have the option to "see off a bowler".

Nor do they learn the mentality or skills because if they do not play regular FC cricket/... RH