Are we close enough to DTT switch-off for Bilsdale to never be restored
to its previous state?

--- Relays to be fed from 27.5W permanently, or switched off?

--- Three muxes only (DTT lite) from a lowish powered low height new
token Bilsdale?

--- No coverage at all in the Emley Moor overlap area; no transmission
to the south?

--- Eston Nabb to be turned into a three mux 'main' tx permanently, but
not with much power because it overlaps so much with Pontop Pike?

--- Viewers in Swaledale etc, where Bilsdale is the only choice and is
marginal, told 'hard luck', just the same as happened when the Whitby
relay was moved to a stupid place?

Is so, 'YAY!' will be the cry from the riggers of Sheffield, who are
infuriated by CCI from Bilsdale wiping out Crosspool reception.

Bill

On 12/08/2021 10:53, williamwright wrote:
> Are we close enough to DTT switch-off for Bilsdale to never be restored
> to its previous state?
>
> --- Relays to be fed from 27.5W permanently, or switched off?
>
> --- Three muxes only (DTT lite) from a lowish powered low height new
> token Bilsdale?
>
> --- No coverage at all in the Emley Moor overlap area; no transmission
> to the south?
>
> --- Eston Nabb to be turned into a three mux 'main' tx permanently, but
> not with much power because it overlaps so much with Pontop Pike?
>
> --- Viewers in Swaledale etc, where Bilsdale is the only choice and is
> marginal, told 'hard luck', just the same as happened when the Whitby
> relay was moved to a stupid place?
>
> Is so, 'YAY!' will be the cry from the riggers of Sheffield, who are
> infuriated by CCI from Bilsdale wiping out Crosspool reception.
>
> Bill

You wind up merchant with yer wooden spoon!

On 12/08/2021 21:13, SH wrote:
> On 12/08/2021 10:53, williamwright wrote:
>> Are we close enough to DTT switch-off for Bilsdale to never be
>> restored to its previous state?
>>
>> --- Relays to be fed from 27.5W permanently, or switched off?
>>
>> --- Three muxes only (DTT lite) from a lowish powered low height new
>> token Bilsdale?
>>
>> --- No coverage at all in the Emley Moor overlap area; no transmission
>> to the south?
>>
>> --- Eston Nabb to be turned into a three mux 'main' tx permanently,
>> but not with much power because it overlaps so much with Pontop Pike?
>>
>> --- Viewers in Swaledale etc, where Bilsdale is the only choice and is
>> marginal, told 'hard luck', just the same as happened when the Whitby
>> relay was moved to a stupid place?
>>
>> Is so, 'YAY!' will be the cry from the riggers of Sheffield, who are
>> infuriated by CCI from Bilsdale wiping out Crosspool reception.
>>
>> Bill
>
> You wind up merchant with yer wooden spoon!

Its all very well feeding all Tx's with signals from 27.5W, but that
makes the 27.5W satellite a single point of failure... knock that one
satellite out and then the whole country's TXes are knocked out.

There is a lot to be said for line fed fibre and relays rebroadcasting
off air signals from their parent transmitter.....

On 12/08/2021 21:13, SH wrote:
> On 12/08/2021 10:53, williamwright wrote:
>> Are we close enough to DTT switch-off for Bilsdale to never be
>> restored to its previous state?
>>
>> --- Relays to be fed from 27.5W permanently, or switched off?
>>
>> --- Three muxes only (DTT lite) from a lowish powered low height new
>> token Bilsdale?
>>
>> --- No coverage at all in the Emley Moor overlap area; no transmission
>> to the south?
>>
>> --- Eston Nabb to be turned into a three mux 'main' tx permanently,
>> but not with much power because it overlaps so much with Pontop Pike?
>>
>> --- Viewers in Swaledale etc, where Bilsdale is the only choice and is
>> marginal, told 'hard luck', just the same as happened when the Whitby
>> relay was moved to a stupid place?
>>
>> Is so, 'YAY!' will be the cry from the riggers of Sheffield, who are
>> infuriated by CCI from Bilsdale wiping out Crosspool reception.
>>
>> Bill
>
> You wind up merchant with yer wooden spoon!

No, dead serious! I assume the minimal amount of response here to my
prognostication is that everyone has the vapours at the very idea!

Bill

williamwright wrote:

> SH wrote:
>
>> williamwright wrote:
>>
>>> Are we close enough to DTT switch-off for Bilsdale to never be
>>> restored to its previous state?
>>
>> You wind up merchant with yer wooden spoon!
>
> I assume the minimal amount of response here to my
> prognostication is that everyone has the vapours at the very idea!

Just because I don't think we're anywhere near terrestrial switch-off,
anywhere.

On 13/08/2021 07:39, Andy Burns wrote:
> Just because I don't think we're anywhere near terrestrial switch-off,
> anywhere.

I can remember some friends telling me that in their area some dealers
were telling people that DSO was terrestrial switch off and they had to
get Sky (FreeSat was never mentioned!)

MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 13/08/2021 07:39, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Just because I don't think we're anywhere near terrestrial switch-off,
>> anywhere.
>
> I can remember some friends telling me that in their area some dealers
> were telling people that DSO was terrestrial switch off and they had to
> get Sky (FreeSat was never mentioned!)
>
>

I think it’s another decade away. That will be when fibre rollout is much
more advanced.

A new build estate has gone up behind me. They have both Virgin Media and
Open Reach fibre to each house. There’s not a TV aerial to be seen and only
the occasional Sky dish.

"williamwright" <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote in message
news:ink9dcF58a8U1@mid.individual.net...
> Are we close enough to DTT switch-off for Bilsdale to never be restored to
> its previous state?

not a million year's close enough

>
> --- Relays to be fed from 27.5W permanently, or switched off?
>
> --- Three muxes only (DTT lite) from a lowish powered low height new token
> Bilsdale?
>
> --- No coverage at all in the Emley Moor overlap area; no transmission to
> the south?
>
> --- Eston Nabb to be turned into a three mux 'main' tx permanently, but
> not with much power because it overlaps so much with Pontop Pike?
>
> --- Viewers in Swaledale etc, where Bilsdale is the only choice and is
> marginal, told 'hard luck', just the same as happened when the Whitby
> relay was moved to a stupid place?
>
> Is so, 'YAY!' will be the cry from the riggers of Sheffield, who are
> infuriated by CCI from Bilsdale wiping out Crosspool reception.
>
> Bill

On Fri 13/08/2021 09:02, Tweed wrote:
> MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>> On 13/08/2021 07:39, Andy Burns wrote:
>>> Just because I don't think we're anywhere near terrestrial switch-off,
>>> anywhere.
>>
>> I can remember some friends telling me that in their area some dealers
>> were telling people that DSO was terrestrial switch off and they had to
>> get Sky (FreeSat was never mentioned!)
>>
>>
>
> I think it’s another decade away. That will be when fibre rollout is much
> more advanced.
>
> A new build estate has gone up behind me. They have both Virgin Media and
> Open Reach fibre to each house. There’s not a TV aerial to be seen and only
> the occasional Sky dish.
>

Do VM do FTTP for domestic customers? Would it not be more likely to be
CityFibre (TT as was)?

On 13/08/2021 11:26, Woody wrote:
>
> Do VM do FTTP for domestic customers? Would it not be more likely to
> be CityFibre (TT as was)?

Our area was 'Virgin'd' five years ago.  It is indeed FTTP, and easy to
see that it is so, this morning I walked past a house where their
domestic termination box had fallen off the wall, and the fibre splice
ring could be seen. Both the street boxes near me have their doors
happily swinging in the wind too. No copper to be seen.

Pile of shite, I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole

In article <ink9dcF58a8U1@mid.individual.net>,
williamwright <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:

>Are we close enough to DTT switch-off for Bilsdale to never be restored
>to its previous state?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines

-- Richard

Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> On Fri 13/08/2021 09:02, Tweed wrote:
>> MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>>> On 13/08/2021 07:39, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>> Just because I don't think we're anywhere near terrestrial switch-off,
>>>> anywhere.
>>>
>>> I can remember some friends telling me that in their area some dealers
>>> were telling people that DSO was terrestrial switch off and they had to
>>> get Sky (FreeSat was never mentioned!)
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I think it’s another decade away. That will be when fibre rollout is much
>> more advanced.
>>
>> A new build estate has gone up behind me. They have both Virgin Media and
>> Open Reach fibre to each house. There’s not a TV aerial to be seen and only
>> the occasional Sky dish.
>>
>
> Do VM do FTTP for domestic customers? Would it not be more likely to be
> CityFibre (TT as was)?
>
They do now for new builds. At the moment they are stuffing the old DOCSIS
cable protocols through the fibre, which is less than ideal. However VM
have announced a migration to doing it properly, I guess in a similar
fashion to the regular FTTP providers. They’ve also announced a conversion
programme to remove the coax connection for existing customers, to be
replaced with fibre.

Woody wrote:

> Do VM do FTTP for domestic customers?

Yes available in my road. If they'd installed it a couple of months
before BT enabled FTTC, rather than a couple of months afterwards, I
might have gone for it.

On 13/08/2021 11:51, Tweed wrote:

> to remove the coax connection

Surely not. I thought that abandoned plant was another trademark, like
open cabinet doors!

David Woolley <david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> wrote:
> On 13/08/2021 11:51, Tweed wrote:
>
>> to remove the coax connection
>
> Surely not. I thought that abandoned plant was another trademark, like
> open cabinet doors!
>

My guess is the coax will be used as the draw string for the fibre….

On 13/08/2021 11:51, Tweed wrote:

> They’ve also announced a conversion
> programme to remove the coax connection for existing customers, to be
> replaced with fibre.
>
I don't see the point. The last time I saw the cabinet at the end of
the road it looked like fibre to the cabinet and coax to the houses.
At the moment I get a fast and reliable broadband to my house, the
incoming coax goes to a lightning arrester and from there I have a coax
to my Superhub.

When it was installed, I pointed out to the installer that I had a
normal place for the equipment for most of the year but I needed a
longer connection so that when I rearranged the furniture for Christmas
I would need a much longer link to the router because I had a wired
connection to my PC and would normally move PC and router together. I
was provided with a short cable to use normally, and a longer cable to
use instead when I wanted to move it elsewhere. If they change that
incoming coax connection to a fibre I would lose that flexibility.

Jim

Indy Jess John <bathwatchdog@OMITTHISgooglemail.com> wrote:
> On 13/08/2021 11:51, Tweed wrote:
>
>> They’ve also announced a conversion
>> programme to remove the coax connection for existing customers, to be
>> replaced with fibre.
>>
> I don't see the point. The last time I saw the cabinet at the end of
> the road it looked like fibre to the cabinet and coax to the houses.
> At the moment I get a fast and reliable broadband to my house, the
> incoming coax goes to a lightning arrester and from there I have a coax
> to my Superhub.
>
> When it was installed, I pointed out to the installer that I had a
> normal place for the equipment for most of the year but I needed a
> longer connection so that when I rearranged the furniture for Christmas
> I would need a much longer link to the router because I had a wired
> connection to my PC and would normally move PC and router together. I
> was provided with a short cable to use normally, and a longer cable to
> use instead when I wanted to move it elsewhere. If they change that
> incoming coax connection to a fibre I would lose that flexibility.
>
> Jim
>
>

As I understand it these upgrades will happen over at least 7 years, and it
was mentioned that it would initially be a customer on demand thing. So I
suspect you will be ok for the time being. The big problem they have with
current technology is very poor upload speeds. Apparently later versions of
DOCSIS might improve matters, but I guess it’s just stretching the bodge
which DOCSIS effectively is. So to be able to compete with Open Reach etc
into the next decade or two they need to change how they are doing things.
They’ve got all the expensive stuff in place, ie the ducting under the
streets.

On 13/08/2021 14:45, Indy Jess John wrote:
> On 13/08/2021 11:51, Tweed wrote:
>
>> They’ve also announced a conversion
>> programme to remove the coax connection for existing customers, to be
>> replaced with fibre.
>>
> I don't see the point.  The last time I saw the cabinet at the end of
> the road it looked like fibre to the cabinet and coax to the houses.
> At the moment I get a fast and reliable broadband to my house, the
> incoming coax goes to a lightning arrester and from there I have a coax
> to my Superhub.
>
> When it was installed, I pointed out to the installer that I had a
> normal place for the equipment for most of the year but I needed a
> longer connection so that when I rearranged the furniture for Christmas
> I would need a much longer link to the router because I had a wired
> connection to my PC and would normally move PC and router together. I
> was provided with a short cable to use normally, and a longer cable to
> use instead when I wanted to move it elsewhere. If they change that
> incoming coax connection to a fibre I would lose that flexibility.
>
> Jim
>

You can buy optical couplers and fixed lengths of fibre with pre-fitted
connectors on both ends so its very easy to extend the fibre.

S.

In article <sf65s5$1sk8$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
SH <i.love.spam@spam.com> wrote:
> On 13/08/2021 14:45, Indy Jess John wrote:
> > On 13/08/2021 11:51, Tweed wrote:
> >
> >> They‘ve also announced a conversion
> >> programme to remove the coax connection for existing customers, to be
> >> replaced with fibre.
> >>
> > I don't see the point. The last time I saw the cabinet at the end of
> > the road it looked like fibre to the cabinet and coax to the houses.
> > At the moment I get a fast and reliable broadband to my house, the
> > incoming coax goes to a lightning arrester and from there I have a coax
> > to my Superhub.
> >
> > When it was installed, I pointed out to the installer that I had a
> > normal place for the equipment for most of the year but I needed a
> > longer connection so that when I rearranged the furniture for Christmas
> > I would need a much longer link to the router because I had a wired
> > connection to my PC and would normally move PC and router together. I
> > was provided with a short cable to use normally, and a longer cable to
> > use instead when I wanted to move it elsewhere. If they change that
> > incoming coax connection to a fibre I would lose that flexibility.
> >
> > Jim
> >

> You can buy optical couplers and fixed lengths of fibre with pre-fitted
> connectors on both ends so its very easy to extend the fibre.

I feed my hifi with audio from the TV set via an optical cable run over the
curtain rail. Nice & lightweight.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 13/08/2021 14:45, Indy Jess John wrote:
> I don't see the point.  The last time I saw the cabinet at the end of
> the road it looked like fibre to the cabinet and coax to the houses.

They should no longer need to feed power to the cabinets, or at least I
think that is part of BT's implementation of this.

> At the moment I get a fast and reliable broadband to my house, the
> incoming coax goes to a lightning arrester and from there I have a coax
> to my Superhub.

There may well be an advantage in the lightning damaging something in
your house, rather than in the cabinet.

On 13/08/2021 17:16, SH wrote:
>
> You can buy optical couplers and fixed lengths of fibre with pre-fitted
> connectors on both ends so its very easy to extend the fibre.

Those will be for multi-mode fibres. My impression is that FTT* is done
using single mode fibres which have much tighter splicing requirements.
Certainly the fibres mentioned in the followup about audio equipment
are multi-mode.

On 13/08/2021 07:39, Andy Burns wrote:
> williamwright wrote:
>
>> SH wrote:
>>
>>> williamwright wrote:
>>>
>>>> Are we close enough to DTT switch-off for Bilsdale to never be
>>>> restored to its previous state?
>>>
>>> You wind up merchant with yer wooden spoon!
>>
>> I assume the minimal amount of response here to my prognostication is
>> that everyone has the vapours at the very idea!
>
> Just because I don't think we're anywhere near terrestrial switch-off,
> anywhere.
>

No they could be minded to wind it down. We have Whitby as evidence that
the viewers don't count for anything.

On the other hand it could all be insured!

Bill

On 13/08/2021 07:45, MB wrote:
> On 13/08/2021 07:39, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Just because I don't think we're anywhere near terrestrial switch-off,
>> anywhere.
>
> I can remember some friends telling me that in their area some dealers
> were telling people that DSO was terrestrial switch off and they had to
> get Sky (FreeSat was never mentioned!)
>
In 2019, as we waited for the chips to cook, the proprietor of a Halifax
chip shop informed me that the Emley mast was to be pulled down as it
was no longer needed.

Bill

On 13/08/2021 11:04, tim... wrote:
>
>
> "williamwright" <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote in message
> news:ink9dcF58a8U1@mid.individual.net...
>> Are we close enough to DTT switch-off for Bilsdale to never be
>> restored to its previous state?
>
> not a million year's close enough

A million year's months?
>
>
>>
>> --- Relays to be fed from 27.5W permanently, or switched off?
>>
>> --- Three muxes only (DTT lite) from a lowish powered low height new
>> token Bilsdale?
>>
>> --- No coverage at all in the Emley Moor overlap area; no transmission
>> to the south?
>>
>> --- Eston Nabb to be turned into a three mux 'main' tx permanently,
>> but not with much power because it overlaps so much with Pontop Pike?
>>
>> --- Viewers in Swaledale etc, where Bilsdale is the only choice and is
>> marginal, told 'hard luck', just the same as happened when the Whitby
>> relay was moved to a stupid place?

If the powers that be envisage DTT switch-off in ten years' time that
will be enough to justify, to them, not rebuilding Bilsdale.

Bill

On 13/08/2021 11:43, Richard Tobin wrote:
> In article <ink9dcF58a8U1@mid.individual.net>,
> williamwright <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:
>
>> Are we close enough to DTT switch-off for Bilsdale to never be restored
>> to its previous state?
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines
>
> -- Richard
>

It wasn't a headline, it was a legitimate question.

Bill