Not seen any discussion here of this tilting TPE 802 at Heaton depot:
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOcnbxnXoAEaGb6?format=jpg&name=900x900>

<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOcnbxiWQAMiwAF?format=jpg&name=900x900>

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Not seen any discussion here of this tilting TPE 802 at Heaton depot:
> <https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOcnbxnXoAEaGb6?format=jpg&name=900x900>
>
> <https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOcnbxiWQAMiwAF?format=jpg&name=900x900>
>
>

Lots of illumination. How long would batteries keep that going?
Seems unlikely the diesel would be left running after derailment that
severe .

GH

Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Not seen any discussion here of this tilting TPE 802 at Heaton depot:
>> <https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOcnbxnXoAEaGb6?format=jpg&name=900x900>
>>
>> <https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOcnbxiWQAMiwAF?format=jpg&name=900x900>
>>
>>
>
> Lots of illumination. How long would batteries keep that going?
> Seems unlikely the diesel would be left running after derailment that
> severe .
>

Still on mains power?

"Marland" <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:j9vbgbF94e0U1@mid.individual.net...
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Not seen any discussion here of this tilting TPE 802 at Heaton depot:
>> <https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOcnbxnXoAEaGb6?format=jpg&name=900x900>
>>
>> <https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOcnbxiWQAMiwAF?format=jpg&name=900x900>
>>
>>
>
> Lots of illumination. How long would batteries keep that going?
LEDs consume so little it's probably not worth putting in seperate emergency
lighting circuits; just arrange for backup batteries to make sure the main
lighting stays on.

--
DAS

On 23/03/2022 04:57, D A Stocks wrote:
> "Marland" <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:j9vbgbF94e0U1@mid.individual.net...
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Not seen any discussion here of this tilting TPE 802 at Heaton depot:
>>> <https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOcnbxnXoAEaGb6?format=jpg&name=900x900>
>>>
>>> <https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOcnbxiWQAMiwAF?format=jpg&name=900x900>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Lots of illumination. How long would batteries keep that going?
> LEDs consume so little it's probably not worth putting in seperate
> emergency lighting circuits; just arrange for backup batteries to make
> sure the main lighting stays on.

Emergency lighting is needed for many hours due to the extreme times
some passenger evacuations take place.

Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Not seen any discussion here of this tilting TPE 802 at Heaton depot:
>> <https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOcnbxnXoAEaGb6?format=jpg&name=900x900>
>>
>> <https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOcnbxiWQAMiwAF?format=jpg&name=900x900>
>>
>>
>
> Lots of illumination. How long would batteries keep that going?
> Seems unlikely the diesel would be left running after derailment that
> severe .
>

There's only one vehicle derailed, and that doesn't have a diesel engine.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Not seen any discussion here of this tilting TPE 802 at Heaton depot:
>>> <https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOcnbxnXoAEaGb6?format=jpg&name=900x900>
>>>
>>> <https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOcnbxiWQAMiwAF?format=jpg&name=900x900>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Lots of illumination. How long would batteries keep that going?
>> Seems unlikely the diesel would be left running after derailment that
>> severe .
>>
>
> Still on mains power?
>

I wondered that, but the pantograph isn't raised in this picture
<https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/train-derails-newcastle-investigation-launched-23462664.amp>

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Not seen any discussion here of this tilting TPE 802 at Heaton depot:
>>>> <https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOcnbxnXoAEaGb6?format=jpg&name=900x900>
>>>>
>>>> <https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOcnbxiWQAMiwAF?format=jpg&name=900x900>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Lots of illumination. How long would batteries keep that going?
>>> Seems unlikely the diesel would be left running after derailment that
>>> severe .
>>>
>>
>> Still on mains power?
>>
>
> I wondered that, but the pantograph isn't raised in this picture
> <https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/train-derails-newcastle-investigation-launched-23462664.amp>
>
>
> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>
>

Is there any standard procedure for lowering a pantograph after a
derailment either automatically or manually?
While in this instance any pantograph on that vehicle would have left the
wire in something less dramatic where the wheels have just left the rails
and are stood on the ground you could have a vehicle still connected to
25,000V with what has become a much higher impedance to ground.
In ye olden days of first generation tramways there were instances of dust
and dirt* on the rails doing similar and people getting shocks when
stepping on and off a stalled tram while still holding a handrail. Some
systems ran water spraying cars to alleviate the problem, there are also
tales of a conductor having to get a bucket of water and chucking it around
the wheels.

* a lot of which was dried horse exhaust.

GH

Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Not seen any discussion here of this tilting TPE 802 at Heaton depot:
>>>> <https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOcnbxnXoAEaGb6?format=jpg&name=900x900>
>>>>
>>>> <https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOcnbxiWQAMiwAF?format=jpg&name=900x900>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Lots of illumination. How long would batteries keep that going?
>>> Seems unlikely the diesel would be left running after derailment that
>>> severe .
>>>
>>
>> Still on mains power?
>>
>
> I wondered that, but the pantograph isn't raised in this picture
> <https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/train-derails-newcastle-investigation-launched-23462664.amp>

Don’t the 802/2s have two pans? If the pan on the derailed carriage were
still raised it would be wildly out of gauge and probably wouldn’t contact
the wire anyway. I haven’t looked at all the images there but I haven’t
seen a photo of the other driving carriage, and it’s pan might still be
raised.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On 23/03/2022 09:36, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Not seen any discussion here of this tilting TPE 802 at Heaton depot:
>>>> <https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOcnbxnXoAEaGb6?format=jpg&name=900x900>
>>>>
>>>> <https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOcnbxiWQAMiwAF?format=jpg&name=900x900>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Lots of illumination. How long would batteries keep that going?
>>> Seems unlikely the diesel would be left running after derailment that
>>> severe .
>>>
>>
>> Still on mains power?
>>
>
> I wondered that, but the pantograph isn't raised in this picture
> <https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/train-derails-newcastle-investigation-launched-23462664.amp>
>
>

Still powered from the other end?

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

In message <t1epnf$2v2$4@dont-email.me>, at 09:36:47 on Wed, 23 Mar
2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Not seen any discussion here of this tilting TPE 802 at Heaton depot:
>>>> <https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOcnbxnXoAEaGb6?format=jpg&name=900x900>
>>>>
>>>> <https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOcnbxiWQAMiwAF?format=jpg&name=900x900>
>>>
>>> Lots of illumination. How long would batteries keep that going?
>>> Seems unlikely the diesel would be left running after derailment that
>>> severe .
>>
>> Still on mains power?
>
>I wondered that, but the pantograph isn't raised in this picture
><https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/train-derails-newc
>astle-investigation-launched-23462664.amp>

<Thread convergence> No commuters on board, but what about tourists ;)

<clickbait> Not footage *as* it derails, but footage *after* it had
derailed </clickbait>
--
Roland Perry

Marland wrote:

>Is there any standard procedure for lowering a pantograph after a
>derailment either automatically or manually?

Generally pantographs have overheight detection, which when
triggers returns it to the housed position. This should certainly
operate if the pan has slipped sideways off the wire.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
chris@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.

Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
> … it’s pan might still be
> raised.

Oh, for goodness’ sake - “its pan”!

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Not seen any discussion here of this tilting TPE 802 at Heaton depot:
>>>>> <https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOcnbxnXoAEaGb6?format=jpg&name=900x900>
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOcnbxiWQAMiwAF?format=jpg&name=900x900>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Lots of illumination. How long would batteries keep that going?
>>>> Seems unlikely the diesel would be left running after derailment that
>>>> severe .
>>>>
>>>
>>> Still on mains power?
>>>
>>
>> I wondered that, but the pantograph isn't raised in this picture
>> <https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/train-derails-newcastle-investigation-launched-23462664.amp>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Is there any standard procedure for lowering a pantograph after a
> derailment either automatically or manually?
> While in this instance any pantograph on that vehicle would have left the
> wire in something less dramatic where the wheels have just left the rails
> and are stood on the ground you could have a vehicle still connected to
> 25,000V with what has become a much higher impedance to ground.
> In ye olden days of first generation tramways there were instances of dust
> and dirt* on the rails doing similar and people getting shocks when
> stepping on and off a stalled tram while still holding a handrail. Some
> systems ran water spraying cars to alleviate the problem, there are also
> tales of a conductor having to get a bucket of water and chucking it around
> the wheels.
>
> * a lot of which was dried horse exhaust.
>
>

You'll be aware if the train isn't earthed to the rails due to loss of
power. If any vehicles of a multiple unit are on the rails the whole unit
will still be earthed through that vehicle.

For vintage tramcars, if you lose power and lights, the crew have to leave
the car by jumping so they don't bridge the gap between the (potentially
live) tram and earth, until it is determined that it's a power supply
failure rather than bad earth.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Not seen any discussion here of this tilting TPE 802 at Heaton depot:
>>>>> <https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOcnbxnXoAEaGb6?format=jpg&name=900x900>
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOcnbxiWQAMiwAF?format=jpg&name=900x900>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Lots of illumination. How long would batteries keep that going?
>>>> Seems unlikely the diesel would be left running after derailment that
>>>> severe .
>>>>
>>>
>>> Still on mains power?
>>>
>>
>> I wondered that, but the pantograph isn't raised in this picture
>> <https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/train-derails-newcastle-investigation-launched-23462664.amp>
>
> Don’t the 802/2s have two pans? If the pan on the derailed carriage were
> still raised it would be wildly out of gauge and probably wouldn’t contact
> the wire anyway. I haven’t looked at all the images there but I haven’t
> seen a photo of the other driving carriage, and it’s pan might still be
> raised.
>

The derailed vehicle is clearly visible in the original links with pan down
and no visible OLE damage; the pic in the link I shared is the only one
I've found showing the non-derailed driving vehicle.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 23/03/2022 09:36, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Not seen any discussion here of this tilting TPE 802 at Heaton depot:
>>>>> <https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOcnbxnXoAEaGb6?format=jpg&name=900x900>
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOcnbxiWQAMiwAF?format=jpg&name=900x900>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Lots of illumination. How long would batteries keep that going?
>>>> Seems unlikely the diesel would be left running after derailment that
>>>> severe .
>>>>
>>>
>>> Still on mains power?
>>>
>>
>> I wondered that, but the pantograph isn't raised in this picture
>> <https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/train-derails-newcastle-investigation-launched-23462664.amp>
>>
>>
>
> Still powered from the other end?
>

You can clearly see that neither pan is raised.

The three non-cab vehicles have Diesel engines, presumably one of those is
running.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Not seen any discussion here of this tilting TPE 802 at Heaton depot:
>>>>>> <https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOcnbxnXoAEaGb6?format=jpg&name=900x900>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOcnbxiWQAMiwAF?format=jpg&name=900x900>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Lots of illumination. How long would batteries keep that going?
>>>>> Seems unlikely the diesel would be left running after derailment that
>>>>> severe .
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Still on mains power?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I wondered that, but the pantograph isn't raised in this picture
>>> <https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/train-derails-newcastle-investigation-launched-23462664.amp>
>>
>> Don’t the 802/2s have two pans? If the pan on the derailed carriage were
>> still raised it would be wildly out of gauge and probably wouldn’t contact
>> the wire anyway. I haven’t looked at all the images there but I haven’t
>> seen a photo of the other driving carriage, and it’s pan might still be
>> raised.
>>
>
> The derailed vehicle is clearly visible in the original links with pan down
> and no visible OLE damage; the pic in the link I shared is the only one
> I've found showing the non-derailed driving vehicle.

Sorry, I failed to find such a picture. The pan on the derailed driving
vehicle is down in all the images I’ve seen but I’ve not managed to locate
a picture of the non-derailed one. chroniclelive.co.uk only shows me
videos of the other 4 carriages.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Not seen any discussion here of this tilting TPE 802 at Heaton depot:
>>>>>>> <https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOcnbxnXoAEaGb6?format=jpg&name=900x900>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOcnbxiWQAMiwAF?format=jpg&name=900x900>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lots of illumination. How long would batteries keep that going?
>>>>>> Seems unlikely the diesel would be left running after derailment that
>>>>>> severe .
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Still on mains power?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I wondered that, but the pantograph isn't raised in this picture
>>>> <https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/train-derails-newcastle-investigation-launched-23462664.amp>
>>>
>>> Don’t the 802/2s have two pans? If the pan on the derailed carriage were
>>> still raised it would be wildly out of gauge and probably wouldn’t contact
>>> the wire anyway. I haven’t looked at all the images there but I haven’t
>>> seen a photo of the other driving carriage, and it’s pan might still be
>>> raised.
>>>
>>
>> The derailed vehicle is clearly visible in the original links with pan down
>> and no visible OLE damage; the pic in the link I shared is the only one
>> I've found showing the non-derailed driving vehicle.
>
> Sorry, I failed to find such a picture. The pan on the derailed driving
> vehicle is down in all the images I’ve seen but I’ve not managed to locate
> a picture of the non-derailed one. chroniclelive.co.uk only shows me
> videos of the other 4 carriages.
>

It's part way down the article; try
<https://i2-prod.chroniclelive.co.uk/incoming/article23462835.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/1_SGP_NEC_220322TRAIN32JPG.jpg>.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Not seen any discussion here of this tilting TPE 802 at Heaton depot:
>>>>>>>> <https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOcnbxnXoAEaGb6?format=jpg&name=900x900>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOcnbxiWQAMiwAF?format=jpg&name=900x900>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lots of illumination. How long would batteries keep that going?
>>>>>>> Seems unlikely the diesel would be left running after derailment that
>>>>>>> severe .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Still on mains power?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I wondered that, but the pantograph isn't raised in this picture
>>>>> <https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/train-derails-newcastle-investigation-launched-23462664.amp>
>>>>
>>>> Don’t the 802/2s have two pans? If the pan on the derailed carriage were
>>>> still raised it would be wildly out of gauge and probably wouldn’t contact
>>>> the wire anyway. I haven’t looked at all the images there but I haven’t
>>>> seen a photo of the other driving carriage, and it’s pan might still be
>>>> raised.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The derailed vehicle is clearly visible in the original links with pan down
>>> and no visible OLE damage; the pic in the link I shared is the only one
>>> I've found showing the non-derailed driving vehicle.
>>
>> Sorry, I failed to find such a picture. The pan on the derailed driving
>> vehicle is down in all the images I’ve seen but I’ve not managed to locate
>> a picture of the non-derailed one. chroniclelive.co.uk only shows me
>> videos of the other 4 carriages.
>>
>
> It's part way down the article; try
> <https://i2-prod.chroniclelive.co.uk/incoming/article23462835.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/1_SGP_NEC_220322TRAIN32JPG.jpg>.

Aha! There’s a “Continue reading” button. Thank you.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On 24/03/2022 08:25, Sam Wilson wrote:
> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Not seen any discussion here of this tilting TPE 802 at Heaton depot:
>>>>>>>>> <https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOcnbxnXoAEaGb6?format=jpg&name=900x900>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOcnbxiWQAMiwAF?format=jpg&name=900x900>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lots of illumination. How long would batteries keep that going?
>>>>>>>> Seems unlikely the diesel would be left running after derailment that
>>>>>>>> severe .
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Still on mains power?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wondered that, but the pantograph isn't raised in this picture
>>>>>> <https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/train-derails-newcastle-investigation-launched-23462664.amp>
>>>>>
>>>>> Don’t the 802/2s have two pans? If the pan on the derailed carriage were
>>>>> still raised it would be wildly out of gauge and probably wouldn’t contact
>>>>> the wire anyway. I haven’t looked at all the images there but I haven’t
>>>>> seen a photo of the other driving carriage, and it’s pan might still be
>>>>> raised.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The derailed vehicle is clearly visible in the original links with pan down
>>>> and no visible OLE damage; the pic in the link I shared is the only one
>>>> I've found showing the non-derailed driving vehicle.
>>>
>>> Sorry, I failed to find such a picture. The pan on the derailed driving
>>> vehicle is down in all the images I’ve seen but I’ve not managed to locate
>>> a picture of the non-derailed one. chroniclelive.co.uk only shows me
>>> videos of the other 4 carriages.
>>>
>>
>> It's part way down the article; try
>> <https://i2-prod.chroniclelive.co.uk/incoming/article23462835.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/1_SGP_NEC_220322TRAIN32JPG.jpg>.
>
> Aha! There’s a “Continue reading” button. Thank you.
>

That confused me as well.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 23/03/2022 12:15, Chris J Dixon wrote:
> Marland wrote:
>
>> Is there any standard procedure for lowering a pantograph after a
>> derailment either automatically or manually?
>
> Generally pantographs have overheight detection, which when
> triggers returns it to the housed position. This should certainly
> operate if the pan has slipped sideways off the wire.
>

What if a train encounters a known fixed phase gap on its route? Will
the driver have to lower and raise the pan as it the train goes through?

There are two phase gaps in separate locations on the lower New Haven
Line. The engineer (driver) simply coasts through them, while the pan
goes into maximum height position until it makes contact with OHLE on
the gaps' other sides.

There are ways on M-series trains, however, to immediately drop the pan
in an emergency. By that, I mean that it will not just return to housed
position normally, but that it would literally drop.

That action can damage the pantograph coach as well as the pantograph
itself, mind you, and so you need a pretty good reason for that.

hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

>On 23/03/2022 12:15, Chris J Dixon wrote:
>> Marland wrote:
>>
>>> Is there any standard procedure for lowering a pantograph after a
>>> derailment either automatically or manually?
>>
>> Generally pantographs have overheight detection, which when
>> triggers returns it to the housed position. This should certainly
>> operate if the pan has slipped sideways off the wire.
>
>What if a train encounters a known fixed phase gap on its route? Will
>the driver have to lower and raise the pan as it the train goes through?
>There are two phase gaps in separate locations on the lower New Haven
>Line. The engineer (driver) simply coasts through them, while the pan
>goes into maximum height position until it makes contact with OHLE on
>the gaps' other sides.

I was addressing the UK situation.

I think you are describing what we refer to as a "Neutral
Section". These days it is usually simply a length of insulating
material in place of the conductor.

In the early days there were lengthy sections of isolated
conductor with air gaps constructed with a "Y" overlap. There had
to be one more air gap than the maximum number of pantographs
raised on any know consist.

Because of the danger of coming to a stand on a dead section,
there was a means provided to manually energise them.

In all of these cases, the pantograph would run through.

I can't answer for the more recent implementation of
discontinuous electrification.

>There are ways on M-series trains, however, to immediately drop the pan
>in an emergency. By that, I mean that it will not just return to housed
>position normally, but that it would literally drop.
>
>That action can damage the pantograph coach as well as the pantograph
>itself, mind you, and so you need a pretty good reason for that.

AFAIK the normal "Pan Down" button would be the only way to
command it to drop.

The overheight (and also I believe loss of carbon) detectors
trigger a rapid initial descent, but my memory tells me that the
pneumatics were cleverly arranged to cushion its descent as it
reached the housed position.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
chris@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.

On 25/3/22 04:18, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
> On 23/03/2022 12:15, Chris J Dixon wrote:

>
> What if a train encounters a known fixed phase gap on its route? Will
> the driver have to lower and raise the pan as it the train goes through?
>
The system is designed for it.

> There are two phase gaps in separate locations on the lower New Haven
> Line. The engineer (driver) simply coasts through them, while the pan
> goes into maximum height position until it makes contact with OHLE on
> the gaps' other sides.

Their pantographs have height limiters. The system was designed to
gracefully cope with a physical air-gap. The departure side wire has to
be carefully strung too as to gracefully 'catch' the fully extended
pantograph.
I gather the dutch have opening bridges on electrified lines that have
no overhead, the train coasts across the non wired bridge.

Some of the early diamond style pantographs could actually fully extend
and then fall over if they didn't have mechanical limiting.
And 'capturing' the wire on the other side, if not exactly right could
knock the pantograph over.

Phase gaps now tend to have a section of non energised wire between two
'section isolators' or a short section of some suitably insulating
material so the pantograph never 'flies free'.

Matthew Geier <matthew@sleeper.apana.org.au> wrote:
> On 25/3/22 04:18, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>> On 23/03/2022 12:15, Chris J Dixon wrote:
>
>>
>> What if a train encounters a known fixed phase gap on its route? Will
>> the driver have to lower and raise the pan as it the train goes through?
>>
> The system is designed for it.
>
>> There are two phase gaps in separate locations on the lower New Haven
>> Line. The engineer (driver) simply coasts through them, while the pan
>> goes into maximum height position until it makes contact with OHLE on
>> the gaps' other sides.
>
> Their pantographs have height limiters. The system was designed to
> gracefully cope with a physical air-gap. The departure side wire has to
> be carefully strung too as to gracefully 'catch' the fully extended
> pantograph.
> I gather the dutch have opening bridges on electrified lines that have
> no overhead, the train coasts across the non wired bridge.
>

The arrangement for the tram route across this Swing bridge on the Forth
and Clyde canal
seen on this old photo look interesting.
I Reckon the conductor must have stood on the top deck and held the pole
down as it crossed the gap from the bank to bridge section.

A different location on the same canal 3 decades later and a more modern
tram and the overhead arrangement is far more elaborate.

<https://www.caingram.info/Scotland/Glasgow_bygone/dalmuir-tram.jpg>

East of London in Barking there was an interesting arrangement on the lift
bridge across the River Roding. The overhead terminated on each side and a
live rail provided for the crossing , the only traffic across the bridge
were the trams with pedestrians confined to a footpath on one side so not
so alarming as it sounds. The live rail wasn’t too reliable and as it was
found the trams could coast across that is what they subsequently did with
conductor holding down the pole.Another feature was as that Barking Council
owned the bridge and the tramway they used the tram power supply to power
the motors that raised the bridge.
Photos of the bridge are common
<http://www.movablebridges.org.uk/BridgePage.asp?BridgeNumber=1048>

but of the track much rarer.

I could only find this photo on ebay that shows the third rail
arrangement.

<https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274488655681>

GH

..

On 24/03/2022 20:03, Matthew Geier wrote:
> On 25/3/22 04:18, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>> On 23/03/2022 12:15, Chris J Dixon wrote:
>
>>
>> What if a train encounters a known fixed phase gap on its route? Will
>> the driver have to lower and raise the pan as it the train goes through?
>>
> The system is designed for it.
>
>> There are two phase gaps in separate locations on the lower New Haven
>> Line. The engineer (driver) simply coasts through them, while the pan
>> goes into maximum height position until it makes contact with OHLE on
>> the gaps' other sides.
>
> Their pantographs have height limiters. The system was designed to
> gracefully cope with a physical air-gap. The departure side wire has to
> be carefully strung too as to gracefully 'catch' the fully extended
> pantograph.
> I gather the dutch have opening bridges on electrified lines that have
> no overhead, the train coasts across the non wired bridge.

The UK has one in Norwich.

>
> Some of the early diamond style pantographs could actually fully extend
> and then fall over if they didn't have mechanical limiting.
> And 'capturing' the wire on the other side, if not exactly right could
> knock the pantograph over.
>
> Phase gaps now tend to have a section of non energised wire between two
> 'section isolators' or a short section of some suitably insulating
> material so the pantograph never 'flies free'.
>