If he did then surely it casts a shadow of guilt over all of those who
cited the unfairness of the process as a reason not to attend

If I was a potential employer of one of those people I'd probably be
more likely to hire one who engaged with the process in good faith
regardless of the outcome and didn't go crying to the newspapers
instead.

max.it

On Friday, 31 March 2023 at 16:54:47 UTC+1, max.it wrote:
> If he did then surely it casts a shadow of guilt over all of those who
> cited the unfairness of the process as a reason not to attend
>
> If I was a potential employer of one of those people I'd probably be
> more likely to hire one who engaged with the process in good faith
> regardless of the outcome and didn't go crying to the newspapers
> instead.

I thought he was a twat before the hearing and still think he's a twat after it, Ashes victory or no Ashes victory.

Whatever the outcome I'm sure it'll give the usual sources a reason to bleat that everything is fine and dandy in English cricket whereas this was just a very public persona representing a tip of an iceberg: "It added its findings "do not in any way undermine" Rafiq's wider evidence - in which he said English cricket is "institutionally racist".

Nothing broadly has changed.

Richard

On 31 Mar 2023, Richard Dixon wrote

> On Friday, 31 March 2023 at 16:54:47 UTC+1, max.it wrote:
>> If he did then surely it casts a shadow of guilt over all of
>> those who cited the unfairness of the process as a reason not to
>> attend
>>
>> If I was a potential employer of one of those people I'd probably
>> be more likely to hire one who engaged with the process in good
>> faith regardless of the outcome and didn't go crying to the
>> newspapers instead.
>
> I thought he was a twat before the hearing and still think he's a
> twat after it, Ashes victory or no Ashes victory.
>
> Whatever the outcome I'm sure it'll give the usual sources a
> reason to bleat that everything is fine and dandy in English
> cricket whereas this was just a very public persona representing a
> tip of an iceberg: "It added its findings "do not in any way
> undermine" Rafiq's wider evidence - in which he said English
> cricket is "institutionally racist".

Was that quoting Vaughan? I see that he made the same sort of point
after the verdict of not downplaying the problem:

�The outcome of these CDC proceedings must not be allowed to detract
from the core message that there can be no place for racism in the game
of cricket, or society generally,� Vaughan wrote on Instagram, adding
that �the dismissal of the specific charge that concerned me takes
nothing away from Azeem�s own lived experiences�.

(https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/mar/31/michael-vaughan-cleared-
of-using-racist-language-at-yorkshire-cdc-hearing-finds)

--
Cheers, Harvey

On Friday, 31 March 2023 at 17:25:48 UTC+1, HVS wrote:

> > "It added its findings "do not in any way
> > undermine" Rafiq's wider evidence - in which he said English
> > cricket is "institutionally racist".

> Was that quoting Vaughan? I see that he made the same sort of point
> after the verdict of not downplaying the problem:

No - hence the "It" rather than "He"

But if he's the sort of person who posts on Twitter "Not many English people in London....I need to learn a new language" around a similar time as the allegations I suspect you're posting it as more than just a casual observation...

Richard

On Friday, March 31, 2023 at 5:07:47 PM UTC+1, Richard Dixon wrote:
> On Friday, 31 March 2023 at 16:54:47 UTC+1, max.it wrote:
> > If he did then surely it casts a shadow of guilt over all of those who
> > cited the unfairness of the process as a reason not to attend
> >
> > If I was a potential employer of one of those people I'd probably be
> > more likely to hire one who engaged with the process in good faith
> > regardless of the outcome and didn't go crying to the newspapers
> > instead.
> I thought he was a twat before the hearing and still think he's a twat after it, Ashes victory or no Ashes victory.
>
> Whatever the outcome I'm sure it'll give the usual sources a reason to bleat that everything is fine and dandy in English cricket whereas this was just a very public persona representing a tip of an iceberg: "It added its findings "do not in any way undermine" Rafiq's wider evidence - in which he said English cricket is "institutionally racist".
>
> Nothing broadly has changed.
>
> Richard

Indeed, your liberal bigotry is still firmly in place regardless of the evidence... RH

On Friday, March 31, 2023 at 5:25:48 PM UTC+1, HVS wrote:
> On 31 Mar 2023, Richard Dixon wrote
> > On Friday, 31 March 2023 at 16:54:47 UTC+1, max.it wrote:
> >> If he did then surely it casts a shadow of guilt over all of
> >> those who cited the unfairness of the process as a reason not to
> >> attend
> >>
> >> If I was a potential employer of one of those people I'd probably
> >> be more likely to hire one who engaged with the process in good
> >> faith regardless of the outcome and didn't go crying to the
> >> newspapers instead.
> >
> > I thought he was a twat before the hearing and still think he's a
> > twat after it, Ashes victory or no Ashes victory.
> >
> > Whatever the outcome I'm sure it'll give the usual sources a
> > reason to bleat that everything is fine and dandy in English
> > cricket whereas this was just a very public persona representing a
> > tip of an iceberg: "It added its findings "do not in any way
> > undermine" Rafiq's wider evidence - in which he said English
> > cricket is "institutionally racist".
> Was that quoting Vaughan? I see that he made the same sort of point
> after the verdict of not downplaying the problem:
>
> “The outcome of these CDC proceedings must not be allowed to detract
> from the core message that there can be no place for racism in the game
> of cricket, or society generally,” Vaughan wrote on Instagram, adding
> that “the dismissal of the specific charge that concerned me takes
> nothing away from Azeem’s own lived experiences”.
>
> (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/mar/31/michael-vaughan-cleared-
> of-using-racist-language-at-yorkshire-cdc-hearing-finds)
>
> --
> Cheers, Harvey

And another liberal bigot nakedly shows his mentality... RH

On 31 Mar 2023, Richard Dixon wrote

> On Friday, 31 March 2023 at 17:25:48 UTC+1, HVS wrote:
>
>>> "It added its findings "do not in any way
>>> undermine" Rafiq's wider evidence - in which he said English
>>> cricket is "institutionally racist".
>
>> Was that quoting Vaughan? I see that he made the same sort of
>> point after the verdict of not downplaying the problem:
>
> No - hence the "It" rather than "He"
>
> But if he's the sort of person who posts on Twitter "Not many
> English people in London....I need to learn a new language" around
> a similar time as the allegations I suspect you're posting it as
> more than just a casual observation...

Yes, that's a fair point -- it was why I found Vaughan's comment a bit
of a surprise; I'd have expected him to make a more qualified
observation.

--
Cheers, Harvey

On Fri, 31 Mar 2023 09:07:46 -0700 (PDT), Richard Dixon
<richsdixon1975@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, 31 March 2023 at 16:54:47 UTC+1, max.it wrote:
>> If he did then surely it casts a shadow of guilt over all of those who
>> cited the unfairness of the process as a reason not to attend
>>
>> If I was a potential employer of one of those people I'd probably be
>> more likely to hire one who engaged with the process in good faith
>> regardless of the outcome and didn't go crying to the newspapers
>> instead.
>
>I thought he was a twat before the hearing and still think he's a twat after it, Ashes victory or no Ashes victory.
>
>Whatever the outcome I'm sure it'll give the usual sources a reason to bleat that everything is fine and dandy in English cricket whereas this was just a very public persona representing a tip of an iceberg: "It added its findings "do not in any way undermine" Rafiq's wider evidence - in which he said English cricket is "institutionally racist".
>
>Nothing broadly has changed.

I'm not sure that's true.

I'll fully agree that those who aren't employed by county cricket
clubs haven't noticed anything, but that doesn't prove that nothing
has changed.

Meaningful change has to start with the players about to come into the
game: those who've been around for a long time will find the
transition a little uncomfortable and won't absorb it fully - rather
as most people over 50 don't entirely understand trans people (I know
I only half get it at an intellectual level and tend to find the
issues a bit icky, so I'm still a bit awkward with them). If counties
started to be more deliberately inclusive during lockdown, the early
teens they recruited then probably won't get near the first team until
the second half of this decade. You can't just magic up fully-formed
cricketers of 23 who've been squeezed out of opportunities in their
teens, however worthy your intentions.

It's not that I don't share your scepticism; I merely point out that
any seeds which have been planted have not yet had time to start
poking their shoots above the surface.

Yes, Vaughan is a twat and just about always has been except when he's
out on a cricket field doing something useful. From what I've read
about the evidence referring to him, it rather hinges on the tone of
voice with which he made the offending remark, which is somewhat
difficult to judge from the simple text. I've been inclined to think
that he's insensitive rather than malicious. I presume the Artificial
Unintelligence bot has been dancing around his bedsit saying the
Vaughan acquittal shows the whole thing was nonsense, conveniently
ignoring that the other six defendants were not acquitted.

But unfortunately for us all, it's difficult to achieve an entirely
just result when the people most responsible for the whole sorry saga
are acting as judge and jury, because they were never likely to bring
in guilty verdicts on themselves.

Cheers,

Mike

On Saturday, 1 April 2023 at 00:28:02 UTC+1, Mike Holmans wrote:

> >Nothing broadly has changed.
> I'm not sure that's true.
>
> I'll fully agree that those who aren't employed by county cricket
> clubs haven't noticed anything, but that doesn't prove that nothing
> has changed.

I meant to say that nothing has changed in terms of the fact that cricket was found to be racist; I'm more than happy that we'll make / have made a bit of progress in the sport.

> Yes, Vaughan is a twat and just about always has been except when he's
> out on a cricket field doing something useful. From what I've read
> about the evidence referring to him, it rather hinges on the tone of
> voice with which he made the offending remark, which is somewhat
> difficult to judge from the simple text. I've been inclined to think
> that he's insensitive rather than malicious.

Who knows - but tweets from 2010 that read "Not many English people live in London... I need to learn a new language..." don't further the cause.

Mind you - I'm also of the believe that the majority of elite level sportsmen are twats: you have to be in some way a bit wrong in the head to withstand to rigours of top level sport - but being idolised by the public also does things to people's heads.

Richard

On Saturday, April 1, 2023 at 12:52:56 AM UTC+1, Richard Dixon wrote:
> On Saturday, 1 April 2023 at 00:28:02 UTC+1, Mike Holmans wrote:
>
> > >Nothing broadly has changed.
> > I'm not sure that's true.
> >
> > I'll fully agree that those who aren't employed by county cricket
> > clubs haven't noticed anything, but that doesn't prove that nothing
> > has changed.
> I meant to say that nothing has changed in terms of the fact that cricket was found to be racist; I'm more than happy that we'll make / have made a bit of progress in the sport.
> > Yes, Vaughan is a twat and just about always has been except when he's
> > out on a cricket field doing something useful. From what I've read
> > about the evidence referring to him, it rather hinges on the tone of
> > voice with which he made the offending remark, which is somewhat
> > difficult to judge from the simple text. I've been inclined to think
> > that he's insensitive rather than malicious.
> Who knows - but tweets from 2010 that read "Not many English people live in London... I need to learn a new language..." don't further the cause.
>
> Mind you - I'm also of the believe that the majority of elite level sportsmen are twats: you have to be in some way a bit wrong in the head to withstand to rigours of top level sport - but being idolised by the public also does things to people's heads.
>
> Richard

A liberal bigot at full wriggle... RH

On Saturday, 1 April 2023 at 08:02:17 UTC+1, Robert Henderson wrote:

> A liberal bigot at full wriggle... RH
That the best you can manage?

On Fri, 31 Mar 2023 16:52:55 -0700 (PDT), Richard Dixon
<richsdixon1975@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, 1 April 2023 at 00:28:02 UTC+1, Mike Holmans wrote:
>

>
>> Yes, Vaughan is a twat and just about always has been except when he's
>> out on a cricket field doing something useful. From what I've read
>> about the evidence referring to him, it rather hinges on the tone of
>> voice with which he made the offending remark, which is somewhat
>> difficult to judge from the simple text. I've been inclined to think
>> that he's insensitive rather than malicious.
>
>Who knows - but tweets from 2010 that read "Not many English people live in London... I need to learn a new language..." don't further the cause.

They don't. But again, it's difficult to pick up the tone from text.

I'm just about to go out for coffee: on my street, that means choosing
between the Spanish, Italian or Portuguese coffee places; the fish and
chip shop is Turkish, the nailbars are all oriental of some flavour
and the convenience stores are subcontinental.

Compared to monoglot Todmorden with its handful of brown faces, where
I had a second home from 2000-17, Pimlico is close to being a foreign
country if you only look at the surface.

Vaughan strikes me as a pretty superficial sort of bloke who doesn't
make a point of engaging brain before opening mouth. He's not the kind
of malicious racist who spends his time spreading ridiculous
propaganda and making unfunny remarks about doctors and nurses.

Cheers,

MIke

On Saturday, April 1, 2023 at 9:33:55 PM UTC+11, Richard Dixon wrote:
> On Saturday, 1 April 2023 at 08:02:17 UTC+1, Robert Henderson wrote:
>
> > A liberal bigot at full wriggle... RH
> That the best you can manage?

He's dumb enough to think that it's brilliant repartee

On Sat, 1 Apr 2023 05:06:35 -0700 (PDT), Hamish Laws
<hamish.laws@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, April 1, 2023 at 9:33:55?PM UTC+11, Richard Dixon wrote:
>> On Saturday, 1 April 2023 at 08:02:17 UTC+1, Robert Henderson wrote:
>>
>> > A liberal bigot at full wriggle... RH
>> That the best you can manage?
>
>He's dumb enough to think that it's brilliant repartee

Doctor, does it come from his all round world view provided by the
Keele enlightenment?
No nurse it doesn't, it's because he's innately dumb.

max.it

On Saturday, April 1, 2023 at 1:06:36 PM UTC+1, Hamish Laws wrote:
> On Saturday, April 1, 2023 at 9:33:55 PM UTC+11, Richard Dixon wrote:
> > On Saturday, 1 April 2023 at 08:02:17 UTC+1, Robert Henderson wrote:
> >
> > > A liberal bigot at full wriggle... RH
> > That the best you can manage?
> He's dumb enough to think that it's brilliant repartee

It was simple reportage ... Next!

RH RH

On Saturday, April 1, 2023 at 1:26:41 PM UTC+1, max.it wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Apr 2023 05:06:35 -0700 (PDT), Hamish Laws
> <hamis...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Saturday, April 1, 2023 at 9:33:55?PM UTC+11, Richard Dixon wrote:
> >> On Saturday, 1 April 2023 at 08:02:17 UTC+1, Robert Henderson wrote:
> >>
> >> > A liberal bigot at full wriggle... RH
> >> That the best you can manage?
> >
> >He's dumb enough to think that it's brilliant repartee
> Doctor, does it come from his all round world view provided by the
> Keele enlightenment?
> No nurse it doesn't, it's because he's innately dumb.
>
> max.it

"Doctor, the patient known as Lazarus is attempting to mimic most ineptly other people...." RH

On 4/1/2023 6:11 AM, Robert Henderson wrote:
> On Saturday, April 1, 2023 at 1:06:36 PM UTC+1, Hamish Laws wrote:
>> On Saturday, April 1, 2023 at 9:33:55 PM UTC+11, Richard Dixon wrote:
>>> On Saturday, 1 April 2023 at 08:02:17 UTC+1, Robert Henderson wrote:
>>>
>>>> A liberal bigot at full wriggle... RH
>>> That the best you can manage?
>> He's dumb enough to think that it's brilliant repartee
>
> It was simple reportage ... Next!
>
> RH RH

NO, it wasn't.

What the fuck does it have to do with liberalism and conservatism?

Your existence is a waste BECAUSE you think, behave, live and perceive
EXACTLY like the MI6 MI5 CIA NSA Psychopaths BRAINWASHED you by putting
the ENTIRE NATIONS of USA, UK, Aus, Canada in a RW-LW MATRIX.

You have NO SHAME in NOT extricating yourself and START THINKING
INDEPENDENTLY, regardless of how many times I POINT OUT THIS FACT.

On Sunday, April 2, 2023 at 7:56:39 AM UTC+1, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer wrote:
> On 4/1/2023 6:11 AM, Robert Henderson wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 1, 2023 at 1:06:36 PM UTC+1, Hamish Laws wrote:
> >> On Saturday, April 1, 2023 at 9:33:55 PM UTC+11, Richard Dixon wrote:
> >>> On Saturday, 1 April 2023 at 08:02:17 UTC+1, Robert Henderson wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> A liberal bigot at full wriggle... RH
> >>> That the best you can manage?
> >> He's dumb enough to think that it's brilliant repartee
> >
> > It was simple reportage ... Next!
> >
> > RH RH
> NO, it wasn't.
>
> What the fuck does it have to do with liberalism and conservatism?
>
> Your existence is a waste BECAUSE you think, behave, live and perceive
> EXACTLY like the MI6 MI5 CIA NSA Psychopaths BRAINWASHED you by putting
> the ENTIRE NATIONS of USA, UK, Aus, Canada in a RW-LW MATRIX.
>
> You have NO SHAME in NOT extricating yourself and START THINKING
> INDEPENDENTLY, regardless of how many times I POINT OUT THIS FACT.

FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlaye shows the limitations of his vocabulary ... RH

On 4/2/2023 1:10 AM, Robert Henderson wrote:
> On Sunday, April 2, 2023 at 7:56:39 AM UTC+1, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer wrote:
>> On 4/1/2023 6:11 AM, Robert Henderson wrote:
>>> On Saturday, April 1, 2023 at 1:06:36 PM UTC+1, Hamish Laws wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, April 1, 2023 at 9:33:55 PM UTC+11, Richard Dixon wrote:
>>>>> On Saturday, 1 April 2023 at 08:02:17 UTC+1, Robert Henderson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> A liberal bigot at full wriggle... RH
>>>>> That the best you can manage?
>>>> He's dumb enough to think that it's brilliant repartee
>>>
>>> It was simple reportage ... Next!
>>>
>>> RH RH
>> NO, it wasn't.
>>
>> What the fuck does it have to do with liberalism and conservatism?
>>
>> Your existence is a waste BECAUSE you think, behave, live and perceive
>> EXACTLY like the MI6 MI5 CIA NSA Psychopaths BRAINWASHED you by putting
>> the ENTIRE NATIONS of USA, UK, Aus, Canada in a RW-LW MATRIX.
>>
>> You have NO SHAME in NOT extricating yourself and START THINKING
>> INDEPENDENTLY, regardless of how many times I POINT OUT THIS FACT.
>
> FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlaye shows the limitations of his vocabulary ... RH

NO, it wasn't.

What the fuck does it have to do with liberalism and conservatism?

Your existence is a waste BECAUSE you think, behave, live and perceive
EXACTLY like the MI6 MI5 CIA NSA Psychopaths BRAINWASHED you by putting
the ENTIRE NATIONS of USA, UK, Aus, Canada in a RW-LW MATRIX.

You have NO SHAME in NOT extricating yourself and START THINKING
INDEPENDENTLY, regardless of how many times I POINT OUT THIS FACT.

English is my SECOND language.

Secondly, some Indians can actually SPEAK and WRITE wwwaaaaayyyy better
English than ANY american and brit.

But you are TOOOOOO FUCKING DUMB to understand it.

Why DON'T you just fucking DIE and SAVE valuable oxygen?

On 4/1/2023 4:55 AM, Mike Holmans wrote:
> On Fri, 31 Mar 2023 16:52:55 -0700 (PDT), Richard Dixon
> <richsdixon1975@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Saturday, 1 April 2023 at 00:28:02 UTC+1, Mike Holmans wrote:
>>
>
>>
>>> Yes, Vaughan is a twat and just about always has been except when he's
>>> out on a cricket field doing something useful. From what I've read
>>> about the evidence referring to him, it rather hinges on the tone of
>>> voice with which he made the offending remark, which is somewhat
>>> difficult to judge from the simple text. I've been inclined to think
>>> that he's insensitive rather than malicious.
>>
>> Who knows - but tweets from 2010 that read "Not many English people live in London... I need to learn a new language..." don't further the cause.
>
> They don't. But again, it's difficult to pick up the tone from text.
>
> I'm just about to go out for coffee: on my street, that means choosing
> between the Spanish, Italian or Portuguese coffee places; the fish and
> chip shop is Turkish, the nailbars are all oriental of some flavour
> and the convenience stores are subcontinental.
>
> Compared to monoglot Todmorden with its handful of brown faces, where
> I had a second home from 2000-17, Pimlico is close to being a foreign
> country if you only look at the surface.
>
> Vaughan strikes me as a pretty superficial sort of bloke who doesn't
> make a point of engaging brain before opening mouth. He's not the kind
> of malicious racist

That's correct.

>who spends his time spreading ridiculous
> propaganda and making unfunny remarks about doctors and nurses.
>
> Cheers,
>
> MIke
>