I need to replace the rear wishbones on the Porsche due to split ball
joint boots, 21yrs old so the OE lasted long enough.
Price range from genuine at around $800 each to the cheapest aftermarket
part at $81.00 each and brand name aftermarket parts (Meyle or JP Group
which are recommended by the Porsche wreckers) between $205.00 and
$375.00 each.
Very confusing as to what are the best options, very suspicious of the
cheapest but not going to pay for genuine.
I'll most likely go with Meyle but buying parts for cars is not getting
any easier.

--
Daryl

On 8/09/2023 9:53 am, Daryl wrote:
> I need to replace the rear wishbones on the Porsche due to split ball
> joint boots, 21yrs old so the OE lasted long enough.

Not really.

> Price range from genuine at around $800 each to the cheapest aftermarket
> part at $81.00 each and brand name aftermarket parts (Meyle or JP Group
> which are recommended by the Porsche wreckers) between $205.00 and
> $375.00 each.
> Very confusing as to what are the best options, very suspicious of the
> cheapest but not going to pay for genuine.
> I'll most likely go with Meyle but buying parts for cars is not getting
> any easier.
>
>

If the ball joints are fine I would be replacing the boots not the whole
wishbone. They are available for most models.

--
In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
proven liar."

On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
"He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."

On 8/09/2023 11:53 am, Daryl wrote:

> I need to replace the rear wishbones on the Porsche due to split ball
> joint boots, 21yrs old so the OE lasted long enough.

Weird arse design where the boots don't look like they can be removed
without fucking the joint itself.

What was I saying earlier about German cars? :)

> Price range from genuine at around $800 each to the cheapest aftermarket
> part at $81.00 each and brand name aftermarket parts (Meyle or JP Group
> which are recommended by the Porsche wreckers) between $205.00 and
> $375.00 each.
> Very confusing as to what are the best options, very suspicious of the
> cheapest but not going to pay for genuine.

I wouldn't completely discount the cheap ones, as I'd be surprised if
there were more than a *very* small handful of after market
manufacturers making parts for these things. In fact I wouldn't be the
slightest bit surprised if the "mid range" items were the cheap ones in
a different box.

> I'll most likely go with Meyle but buying parts for cars is not getting
> any easier.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 8/9/2023 2:24 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 8/09/2023 11:53 am, Daryl wrote:
>
>> I need to replace the rear wishbones on the Porsche due to split ball
>> joint boots, 21yrs old so the OE lasted long enough.
>
> Weird arse design where the boots don't look like they can be removed
> without fucking the joint itself.
>
> What was I saying earlier about German cars? :)

You might find that all manufacturers are heading the same way -
unitized alloy lower control arms. Reduces unsprung weight but at the
expense of needing to replace it as complete unit even if only the ball
joint boot is bad. What's more, they don't rust, and in an environment
where they salt the roads, that is a definite plus. You will notice that
they are typically equipped with elastokinematic bushings. Daryl's are
21 years old so I suspect those elasto bushings will be well fatigued by
now. Fatigued elasto bushings will degrade handling.
>
>> Price range from genuine at around $800 each to the cheapest
>> aftermarket part at $81.00 each and brand name aftermarket parts
>> (Meyle or JP Group which are recommended by the Porsche wreckers)
>> between $205.00 and $375.00 each.
>> Very confusing as to what are the best options, very suspicious of the
>> cheapest but not going to pay for genuine.
>
> I wouldn't completely discount the cheap ones, as I'd be surprised if
> there were more than a *very* small handful of after market
> manufacturers making parts for these things. In fact I wouldn't be the

Lots in China - and that's the problem - quality control. The factory
originals lasted 21 years without *breaking*. Good quality alloy
obviously. Can you guarantee the quality of the alloy in the non-OEM
aftermarket units? The material in the bushings? The ball joint?

Speaking of the metal quality in *Chinese* products that don't have the
*overwatch* of a major Euro manufacturer;

https://www.queenslandjudgments.com.au/caselaw/qcat/2021/316

The above is a clear cut case of both poor quality materials and poor
quality manufacturing.

If Daryl ends up with a lower control arm of poor quality because he was
*price sensitive*, he could have it break on him. Know what happens when
a lower control arm breaks at speed?

> slightest bit surprised if the "mid range" items were the cheap ones in
> a different box.

I wouldn't care! I'd avoid both!
>
>> I'll most likely go with Meyle but buying parts for cars is not
>> getting any easier.
>
People don't seem to understand that maintenance, and parts, on exotic
cars doesn't get any cheaper just because the cars are getting older. If
anything the reverse is true - the costs go up. Daryl has one advantage,
he can do the work himself. That's the cost saving he should count on
and not by skimping on *critical suspension parts*.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 8/9/2023 2:24 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 8/09/2023 11:53 am, Daryl wrote:
>
>> I need to replace the rear wishbones on the Porsche due to split ball
>> joint boots, 21yrs old so the OE lasted long enough.
>
> Weird arse design where the boots don't look like they can be removed
> without fucking the joint itself.

Yep, doesn't look like its possible to just change the boot.
>
> What was I saying earlier about German cars? :)

LOL.
>
>> Price range from genuine at around $800 each to the cheapest
>> aftermarket part at $81.00 each and brand name aftermarket parts
>> (Meyle or JP Group which are recommended by the Porsche wreckers)
>> between $205.00 and $375.00 each.
>> Very confusing as to what are the best options, very suspicious of the
>> cheapest but not going to pay for genuine.
>
> I wouldn't completely discount the cheap ones, as I'd be surprised if
> there were more than a *very* small handful of after market
> manufacturers making parts for these things. In fact I wouldn't be the
> slightest bit surprised if the "mid range" items were the cheap ones in
> a different box.

That's the problem, very difficult to pick the difference.

--
Daryl

On 8/09/2023 7:14 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 8/9/2023 2:24 pm, Noddy wrote:

>> Weird arse design where the boots don't look like they can be removed
>> without fucking the joint itself.
>
> Yep, doesn't look like its possible to just change the boot.

Dumb idea really. I don't know why you'd crimp the rubber inside the
body of the ball joint itself. Then again I don't understand why you'd
want to make a suspension arm with a ball joint that couldn't be replaced.

>> I wouldn't completely discount the cheap ones, as I'd be surprised if
>> there were more than a *very* small handful of after market
>> manufacturers making parts for these things. In fact I wouldn't be the
>> slightest bit surprised if the "mid range" items were the cheap ones
>> in a different box.
>
> That's the problem, very difficult to pick the difference.

Then go with the cheap one. Odds are that the only difference you'd
notice is the weight of your wallet.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 8/9/2023 8:20 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 8/09/2023 7:14 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 8/9/2023 2:24 pm, Noddy wrote:
>
>>> Weird arse design where the boots don't look like they can be removed
>>> without fucking the joint itself.
>>
>> Yep, doesn't look like its possible to just change the boot.
>
> Dumb idea really. I don't know why you'd crimp the rubber inside the
> body of the ball joint itself. Then again I don't understand why you'd
> want to make a suspension arm with a ball joint that couldn't be replaced.

Might be a German thing, MB is the same AFAIK but MB parts are a lot
cheaper and more common.
>
>>> I wouldn't completely discount the cheap ones, as I'd be surprised if
>>> there were more than a *very* small handful of after market
>>> manufacturers making parts for these things. In fact I wouldn't be
>>> the slightest bit surprised if the "mid range" items were the cheap
>>> ones in a different box.
>>
>> That's the problem, very difficult to pick the difference.
>
> Then go with the cheap one. Odds are that the only difference you'd
> notice is the weight of your wallet.
>

Still thinking about it, most likely will just go with the cheapest, its
not as if the car does big kms, even if the cheap one only lasts
50,000km that's about 10yrs at my current rate.

--
Daryl

On 8/9/2023 8:20 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 8/09/2023 7:14 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 8/9/2023 2:24 pm, Noddy wrote:
>
>>> Weird arse design where the boots don't look like they can be removed
>>> without fucking the joint itself.
>>
>> Yep, doesn't look like its possible to just change the boot.
>
> Dumb idea really. I don't know why you'd crimp the rubber inside the
> body of the ball joint itself. Then again I don't understand why you'd
> want to make a suspension arm with a ball joint that couldn't be replaced.
>
>>> I wouldn't completely discount the cheap ones, as I'd be surprised if
>>> there were more than a *very* small handful of after market
>>> manufacturers making parts for these things. In fact I wouldn't be
>>> the slightest bit surprised if the "mid range" items were the cheap
>>> ones in a different box.
>>
>> That's the problem, very difficult to pick the difference.
>
> Then go with the cheap one. Odds are that the only difference you'd
> notice is the weight of your wallet.
>
What is your authority to advise on details that will potentially affect
vehicle safety? You cannot even be sure if the material quality will be
the same in the cheapie versus the OEM. That's why people like you need
to be kept out of the motor trade

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 8/9/2023 9:47 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 8/9/2023 8:20 pm, Noddy wrote:
>> On 8/09/2023 7:14 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>> On 8/9/2023 2:24 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>
>>>> Weird arse design where the boots don't look like they can be
>>>> removed without fucking the joint itself.
>>>
>>> Yep, doesn't look like its possible to just change the boot.
>>
>> Dumb idea really. I don't know why you'd crimp the rubber inside the
>> body of the ball joint itself. Then again I don't understand why you'd
>> want to make a suspension arm with a ball joint that couldn't be
>> replaced.

The arm is alloy, the ball joint steel. Differential expansion is a
problem for a start. Then there's the issue of unsprung weight, alloy
control arms are lighter therefore reducing unsprung weight. Alloy
control arms are more rigid than pressed steel control arms which keeps
alignment settings where you want them even under arduous conditions.
Improves handling too! Then there's the issue of rust in environments
where roads are salted - alloy doesn't rust. Finally, integrating the
ball joint into the arm saves cost and weight. Your Porsche ball joints
have *lasted* 21 years and, even then, only the boots have degraded.
Surely you can justify the cost of OEM replacements that will, at the
same time, put new elastokinematic bushes into the picture. After all,
bushes will be as degraded same as the boots, it just might not be as
*visibly* noticeable. And those bushes - the flex in them *increases*
with age. Those kinematic bushes being in good nick is really important
for precise vehicle handling.
>
> Might be a German thing, MB is the same AFAIK but MB parts are a lot
> cheaper and more common.

MB is much the same and the ML lower control arms were, from memory,
$1800 per pair, dealer price. And that was a few years ago, might be
dearer now.
>>
>>>> I wouldn't completely discount the cheap ones, as I'd be surprised
>>>> if there were more than a *very* small handful of after market
>>>> manufacturers making parts for these things. In fact I wouldn't be
>>>> the slightest bit surprised if the "mid range" items were the cheap
>>>> ones in a different box.
>>>
>>> That's the problem, very difficult to pick the difference.
>>
>> Then go with the cheap one. Odds are that the only difference you'd
>> notice is the weight of your wallet.
>>
>
> Still thinking about it, most likely will just go with the cheapest, its

Don't. Just go with OEM.

> not as if the car does big kms, even if the cheap one only lasts
> 50,000km that's about 10yrs at my current rate.
>
And if the cheap one breaks? Worse, it breaks while you're doing 110 on
the freeway? Ever had a suspension dismantle itself at speed? You might
just get that *experience* soon.

You clowns know the price of everything but the value of nothing. Not
even the value of *safety*.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 8/09/2023 9:47 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 8/9/2023 8:20 pm, Noddy wrote:

>> Then go with the cheap one. Odds are that the only difference you'd
>> notice is the weight of your wallet.
>>
>
> Still thinking about it, most likely will just go with the cheapest, its
> not as if the car does big kms, even if the cheap one only lasts
> 50,000km that's about 10yrs at my current rate.

Years ago I would have recommended buying decent quality parts, but not
these days, as in today's world "decent quality" simply means the same
part as the cheap one in a prettier box with a shit-tonne of mark up.

A case in point. When I sold my Navara last year, the EGR in the thing
crapped itself on the way home from getting the roadworthy certificate.
EGR failures are common on *many* late model common rail diesel engines,
and it was just my luck that mine had shit itself just before the new
owner was due to come over and collect it.

So I rang him and let him know that it had happened and that I was going
to replace it and not sell him a car with a fault, and told him that
he's have to wait an extra week while I ordered the new EGR and fitted
it which he was fine with.

The EGR:

> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEOPJTR

The one on the left was the "Nissan" original which had stopped opening,
and the one on the right was the new replacement. Both valves were
identical and were made by the same company, with the only difference
between them being that the replacement cost 390 bucks delivered from
Ebay, whereas an OEM from Nissan was 1800 bucks plus.

The Nissan sourced one would have had a nicer box though.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 9/9/2023 1:05 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 8/09/2023 9:47 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 8/9/2023 8:20 pm, Noddy wrote:
>
>>> Then go with the cheap one. Odds are that the only difference you'd
>>> notice is the weight of your wallet.
>>>
>>
>> Still thinking about it, most likely will just go with the cheapest,
>> its not as if the car does big kms, even if the cheap one only lasts
>> 50,000km that's about 10yrs at my current rate.
>
> Years ago I would have recommended buying decent quality parts, but not
> these days, as in today's world "decent quality" simply means the same
> part as the cheap one in a prettier box with a shit-tonne of mark up.
>
> A case in point. When I sold my Navara last year, the EGR in the thing
> crapped itself on the way home from getting the roadworthy certificate.
> EGR failures are common on *many* late model common rail diesel engines,
> and it was just my luck that mine had shit itself just before the new
> owner was due to come over and collect it.
>
> So I rang him and let him know that it had happened and that I was going
> to replace it and not sell him a car with a fault, and told him that
> he's have to wait an extra week while I ordered the new EGR and fitted
> it which he was fine with.
>
> The EGR:
>
>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEOPJTR
>
> The one on the left was the "Nissan" original which had stopped opening,
> and the one on the right was the new replacement. Both valves were
> identical and were made by the same company, with the only difference

So, both made by *Nissan*???

Prove the replacement was manufactured by the *OEM supplier* to the OEM
specifications and standards. There are lots of things that are rubbish
on EBay. The Chinese are very good at copying - until you look into the
details.

> between them being that the replacement cost 390 bucks delivered from
> Ebay, whereas an OEM from Nissan was 1800 bucks plus.

One made to Nissan Specs, one made to a price, not the same unit.
>
> The Nissan sourced one would have had a nicer box though.
>
>
As I have said, you know the price of everything, the value of nothing.

But it does look like you got shed of that ticking time bomb of a Nissan
just in time.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 9/9/2023 1:47 pm, Xeno wrote:
> On 9/9/2023 1:05 pm, Noddy wrote:
>> On 8/09/2023 9:47 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>> On 8/9/2023 8:20 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>
>>>> Then go with the cheap one. Odds are that the only difference you'd
>>>> notice is the weight of your wallet.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Still thinking about it, most likely will just go with the cheapest,
>>> its not as if the car does big kms, even if the cheap one only lasts
>>> 50,000km that's about 10yrs at my current rate.
>>
>> Years ago I would have recommended buying decent quality parts, but
>> not these days, as in today's world "decent quality" simply means the
>> same part as the cheap one in a prettier box with a shit-tonne of mark
>> up.
>>
>> A case in point. When I sold my Navara last year, the EGR in the thing
>> crapped itself on the way home from getting the roadworthy
>> certificate. EGR failures are common on *many* late model common rail
>> diesel engines, and it was just my luck that mine had shit itself just
>> before the new owner was due to come over and collect it.
>>
>> So I rang him and let him know that it had happened and that I was
>> going to replace it and not sell him a car with a fault, and told him
>> that he's have to wait an extra week while I ordered the new EGR and
>> fitted it which he was fine with.
>>
>> The EGR:
>>
>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEOPJTR

Forgot to make this point in my previous post - you should have tried
cleaning it. The most common cause of *failure* in those is *sticking*
because of a buildup of carbon. This is especially so in the case of
common rail diesels. You can buy EGR cleaners at Repco and others. To do
a proper job requires removal and dismantling of the EGR valve -
spraying the EGR cleaner on the electronics isn't a good idea.

On that score, it's a good idea on any engine that has any form of EGR
system (EGR valve, valve overlap) *and* no port injection (all diesels),
to regularly clean the intake tract - even if it isn't in the service
schedule. I do an intake tract clean, focussed on throttle body and MAF
sensor, at regular intervals on my Toy.

You obviously didn't do that so ended up with a stuck one.
>>
>> The one on the left was the "Nissan" original which had stopped
>> opening, and the one on the right was the new replacement. Both valves
>> were identical and were made by the same company, with the only
>> difference
>
> So, both made by *Nissan*???
>
> Prove the replacement was manufactured by the *OEM supplier* to the OEM
> specifications and standards. There are lots of things that are rubbish
> on EBay. The Chinese are very good at copying - until you look into the
> details.
>
>> between them being that the replacement cost 390 bucks delivered from
>> Ebay, whereas an OEM from Nissan was 1800 bucks plus.
>
> One made to Nissan Specs, one made to a price, not the same unit.
>>
>> The Nissan sourced one would have had a nicer box though.
>>
>>
> As I have said, you know the price of everything, the value of nothing.
>
> But it does look like you got shed of that ticking time bomb of a Nissan
> just in time.
>

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 9/9/2023 1:05 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 8/09/2023 9:47 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 8/9/2023 8:20 pm, Noddy wrote:
>
>>> Then go with the cheap one. Odds are that the only difference you'd
>>> notice is the weight of your wallet.
>>>
>>
>> Still thinking about it, most likely will just go with the cheapest,
>> its not as if the car does big kms, even if the cheap one only lasts
>> 50,000km that's about 10yrs at my current rate.
>
> Years ago I would have recommended buying decent quality parts, but not
> these days, as in today's world "decent quality" simply means the same
> part as the cheap one in a prettier box with a shit-tonne of mark up.
>
> A case in point. When I sold my Navara last year, the EGR in the thing
> crapped itself on the way home from getting the roadworthy certificate.
> EGR failures are common on *many* late model common rail diesel engines,
> and it was just my luck that mine had shit itself just before the new
> owner was due to come over and collect it.
>
> So I rang him and let him know that it had happened and that I was going
> to replace it and not sell him a car with a fault, and told him that
> he's have to wait an extra week while I ordered the new EGR and fitted
> it which he was fine with.
>
> The EGR:
>
>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEOPJTR
>
> The one on the left was the "Nissan" original which had stopped opening,
> and the one on the right was the new replacement. Both valves were
> identical and were made by the same company, with the only difference
> between them being that the replacement cost 390 bucks delivered from
> Ebay, whereas an OEM from Nissan was 1800 bucks plus.
>
> The Nissan sourced one would have had a nicer box though.
>
>
LOL, must be a very nice box.
Wish it was possible to do the same with the part I'm after but I can't
see any brand name on it.
The main reason I started looking at the rear suspension was because of
a squeak that happens after the car was driven for a few kms, I bought a
grease injector needle and only noticed the split boot when the grease
leaked out after I tried to lube the lower ball joint, no noticeable
wear in the ball joint so no need to rush into doing anything.
I won't know if I've fixed the noise until I drive it next time.
I've ordered a pair of sway bar bushes which were only $37.00 delivered
so if the noise is still there I'll change those first.
Very difficult to find exactly where the noise is coming from because
just jacking the rear wheel off the ground makes the noise disappear and
it doesn't come back till I drive for at least 10km.

--
Daryl

On 9/09/2023 11:05 am, Noddy wrote:

> The EGR:
>
>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEOPJTR
>

I *love* how you post this stuff which is known to every mechanic for
eons as if it's a major new revelation to you.

You might have taken steps to prevent this had you been a competent
mechanic and knew about this issue but like you proudly but laughably
proclaiming that your own Jeep you "serviced" was "all Imperial", you
hoist another enormous red flag indicating you haven't been anywhere
near an apprenticeship nor do you have any real world automotive experience.

Thanks for another good laugh and keep up the regular displays of
incompetence please!

--
In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
proven liar."

On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
"He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."

On 9/9/2023 4:10 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 9/9/2023 1:05 pm, Noddy wrote:
>> On 8/09/2023 9:47 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>> On 8/9/2023 8:20 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>
>>>> Then go with the cheap one. Odds are that the only difference you'd
>>>> notice is the weight of your wallet.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Still thinking about it, most likely will just go with the cheapest,
>>> its not as if the car does big kms, even if the cheap one only lasts
>>> 50,000km that's about 10yrs at my current rate.
>>
>> Years ago I would have recommended buying decent quality parts, but
>> not these days, as in today's world "decent quality" simply means the
>> same part as the cheap one in a prettier box with a shit-tonne of mark
>> up.
>>
>> A case in point. When I sold my Navara last year, the EGR in the thing
>> crapped itself on the way home from getting the roadworthy
>> certificate. EGR failures are common on *many* late model common rail
>> diesel engines, and it was just my luck that mine had shit itself just
>> before the new owner was due to come over and collect it.
>>
>> So I rang him and let him know that it had happened and that I was
>> going to replace it and not sell him a car with a fault, and told him
>> that he's have to wait an extra week while I ordered the new EGR and
>> fitted it which he was fine with.
>>
>> The EGR:
>>
>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEOPJTR
>>
>> The one on the left was the "Nissan" original which had stopped
>> opening, and the one on the right was the new replacement. Both valves
>> were identical and were made by the same company, with the only
>> difference between them being that the replacement cost 390 bucks
>> delivered from Ebay, whereas an OEM from Nissan was 1800 bucks plus.
>>
>> The Nissan sourced one would have had a nicer box though.
>>
>>
> LOL, must be a very nice box.
> Wish it was possible to do the same with the part I'm after but I can't
> see any brand name on it.
> The main reason I started looking at the rear suspension was because of
> a squeak that happens after the car was driven for a few kms, I bought a
> grease injector needle and only noticed the split boot when the grease
> leaked out after I tried to lube the lower ball joint, no noticeable
> wear in the ball joint so no need to rush into doing anything.
> I won't know if I've fixed the noise until I drive it next time.
> I've ordered a pair of sway bar bushes which were only $37.00 delivered
> so if the noise is still there I'll change those first.
> Very difficult to find exactly where the noise is coming from because
> just jacking the rear wheel off the ground makes the noise disappear and
> it doesn't come back till I drive for at least 10km.
>
You will likely find the squeak is coming from the elasto bush on the
outer end of the control arm just inboard of the ball joint. It's where
the torque strut arm connects. Take the torque strut arm off and inspect
to elasto bush on the lower control arm. It's probably getting perished
and soft allowing the bush to deform up to its internal bumpstop. As it
rubs on the internal bump stop, it squeaks and yarks as you go over
bumps whilst accelerating or braking. You might even find the elasto
bush is cracking - sure sign it's knackered and overly flexible.
Regardless, these bushes are unserviceable and require unit replacement.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 9/09/2023 4:10 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 9/9/2023 1:05 pm, Noddy wrote:

>> The EGR:
>>
>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEOPJTR
>>
>> The one on the left was the "Nissan" original which had stopped
>> opening, and the one on the right was the new replacement. Both valves
>> were identical and were made by the same company, with the only
>> difference between them being that the replacement cost 390 bucks
>> delivered from Ebay, whereas an OEM from Nissan was 1800 bucks plus.
>>
>> The Nissan sourced one would have had a nicer box though.
>>
>>
> LOL, must be a very nice box.

I imagine it looks wonderful :)

This is the box the ebay special comes in:

> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEOPS5H

The replacement was made by Pierburg SA, which is a Spanish company who
is the OEM supplier to both Nissan and Renault as the V9X engine was
shared between them. The exact same valve. Same part number, same
everything. The *only* difference is the box it comes in.

And this isn't an isolated incident. A *lot* of 3rd party companies who
supply OEM hardware to vehicle manufacturers also supply to the after
market.

> Wish it was possible to do the same with the part I'm after but I can't
> see any brand name on it.

You probably won't. The genuine ones have part numbers cast into them,
but the after market units probably don't carry too many markings so as
not to limit the number of people who can pass them off as they own goods.

They look to be a forged alloy arm, and I wouldn't think there would be
too many people making them.

> The main reason I started looking at the rear suspension was because of
> a squeak that happens after the car was driven for a few kms, I bought a
> grease injector needle and only noticed the split boot when the grease
> leaked out after I tried to lube the lower ball joint, no noticeable
> wear in the ball joint so no need to rush into doing anything.
> I won't know if I've fixed the noise until I drive it next time.
> I've ordered a pair of sway bar bushes which were only $37.00 delivered
> so if the noise is still there I'll change those first.
> Very difficult to find exactly where the noise is coming from because
> just jacking the rear wheel off the ground makes the noise disappear and
> it doesn't come back till I drive for at least 10km.

Nice weather for it next week apparently :)

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 9/9/2023 5:35 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 9/09/2023 4:10 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 9/9/2023 1:05 pm, Noddy wrote:
>
>
>>> The EGR:
>>>
>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEOPJTR
>>>
>>> The one on the left was the "Nissan" original which had stopped
>>> opening, and the one on the right was the new replacement. Both
>>> valves were identical and were made by the same company, with the
>>> only difference between them being that the replacement cost 390
>>> bucks delivered from Ebay, whereas an OEM from Nissan was 1800 bucks
>>> plus.
>>>
>>> The Nissan sourced one would have had a nicer box though.
>>>
>>>
>> LOL, must be a very nice box.
>
> I imagine it looks wonderful :)
>
> This is the box the ebay special comes in:
>
>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEOPS5H
>
> The replacement was made by Pierburg SA, which is a Spanish company who
> is the OEM supplier to both Nissan and Renault as the V9X engine was
> shared between them. The exact same valve. Same part number, same
> everything. The *only* difference is the box it comes in.
>
> And this isn't an isolated incident. A *lot* of 3rd party companies who
> supply OEM hardware to vehicle manufacturers also supply to the after
> market.
>
>> Wish it was possible to do the same with the part I'm after but I
>> can't see any brand name on it.
>
> You probably won't. The genuine ones have part numbers cast into them,
> but the after market units probably don't carry too many markings so as
> not to limit the number of people who can pass them off as they own goods.
>
> They look to be a forged alloy arm, and I wouldn't think there would be
> too many people making them.
>
>> The main reason I started looking at the rear suspension was because
>> of a squeak that happens after the car was driven for a few kms, I
>> bought a grease injector needle and only noticed the split boot when
>> the grease leaked out after I tried to lube the lower ball joint, no
>> noticeable wear in the ball joint so no need to rush into doing anything.
>> I won't know if I've fixed the noise until I drive it next time.
>> I've ordered a pair of sway bar bushes which were only $37.00
>> delivered so if the noise is still there I'll change those first.
>> Very difficult to find exactly where the noise is coming from because
>> just jacking the rear wheel off the ground makes the noise disappear
>> and it doesn't come back till I drive for at least 10km.
>
> Nice weather for it next week apparently :)
>
>
Heat wave on Friday, 26deg:-)
--
Daryl

On 9/09/2023 5:52 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 9/9/2023 5:35 pm, Noddy wrote:

>> Nice weather for it next week apparently :)
>>
>>
> Heat wave on Friday, 26deg:-)

Hopefully my new solar system will be up in time to benefit from the
glorious sunshine :)

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 9/9/2023 5:20 pm, Xeno wrote:
> On 9/9/2023 4:10 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 9/9/2023 1:05 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>> On 8/09/2023 9:47 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>> On 8/9/2023 8:20 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Then go with the cheap one. Odds are that the only difference you'd
>>>>> notice is the weight of your wallet.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Still thinking about it, most likely will just go with the cheapest,
>>>> its not as if the car does big kms, even if the cheap one only lasts
>>>> 50,000km that's about 10yrs at my current rate.
>>>
>>> Years ago I would have recommended buying decent quality parts, but
>>> not these days, as in today's world "decent quality" simply means the
>>> same part as the cheap one in a prettier box with a shit-tonne of
>>> mark up.
>>>
>>> A case in point. When I sold my Navara last year, the EGR in the
>>> thing crapped itself on the way home from getting the roadworthy
>>> certificate. EGR failures are common on *many* late model common rail
>>> diesel engines, and it was just my luck that mine had shit itself
>>> just before the new owner was due to come over and collect it.
>>>
>>> So I rang him and let him know that it had happened and that I was
>>> going to replace it and not sell him a car with a fault, and told him
>>> that he's have to wait an extra week while I ordered the new EGR and
>>> fitted it which he was fine with.
>>>
>>> The EGR:
>>>
>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEOPJTR
>>>
>>> The one on the left was the "Nissan" original which had stopped
>>> opening, and the one on the right was the new replacement. Both
>>> valves were identical and were made by the same company, with the
>>> only difference between them being that the replacement cost 390
>>> bucks delivered from Ebay, whereas an OEM from Nissan was 1800 bucks
>>> plus.
>>>
>>> The Nissan sourced one would have had a nicer box though.
>>>
>>>
>> LOL, must be a very nice box.
>> Wish it was possible to do the same with the part I'm after but I
>> can't see any brand name on it.
>> The main reason I started looking at the rear suspension was because
>> of a squeak that happens after the car was driven for a few kms, I
>> bought a grease injector needle and only noticed the split boot when
>> the grease leaked out after I tried to lube the lower ball joint, no
>> noticeable wear in the ball joint so no need to rush into doing anything.
>> I won't know if I've fixed the noise until I drive it next time.
>> I've ordered a pair of sway bar bushes which were only $37.00
>> delivered so if the noise is still there I'll change those first.
>> Very difficult to find exactly where the noise is coming from because
>> just jacking the rear wheel off the ground makes the noise disappear
>> and it doesn't come back till I drive for at least 10km.
>>
> You will likely find the squeak is coming from the elasto bush on the
> outer end of the control arm just inboard of the ball joint. It's where
> the torque strut arm connects. Take the torque strut arm off and inspect
> to elasto bush on the lower control arm.  It's probably getting perished
> and soft allowing the bush to deform up to its internal bumpstop. As it
> rubs on the internal bump stop, it squeaks and yarks as you go over
> bumps whilst accelerating or braking. You might even find the elasto
> bush is cracking - sure sign it's knackered and overly flexible.
> Regardless, these bushes are unserviceable and require unit replacement.
>
>
Followup - here's a good view of the elasto bush.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/SasAAOSwo9VbEPUV/s-l1600.jpg

As it stands, it has hard damped lateral movement but has some fore and
aft movement under acceleration and braking. These bushes allow changes
in caster under acceleration *or* braking - either positive or negative
dependent on forces. For creaks and squeaks, these bushes are the
*first* place to look. After 21 years, I would almost expect these to be
knackered since the rubber (neoprene?) degrades with age.

Another thing you might consider are *aftermarket performance parts* as
these are usually stronger than OEM. They also improve handling since
they generally use stiffer bushings made of nolathane. This comes at the
cost of a slight increase in NVH but makes the handling more precise.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 8/09/2023 9:27 pm, Xeno wrote:
> On 8/9/2023 8:20 pm, Noddy wrote:
>> On 8/09/2023 7:14 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>> On 8/9/2023 2:24 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>
>>>> Weird arse design where the boots don't look like they can be
>>>> removed without fucking the joint itself.
>>>
>>> Yep, doesn't look like its possible to just change the boot.
>>
>> Dumb idea really. I don't know why you'd crimp the rubber inside the
>> body of the ball joint itself. Then again I don't understand why you'd
>> want to make a suspension arm with a ball joint that couldn't be
>> replaced.
>>
>>>> I wouldn't completely discount the cheap ones, as I'd be surprised
>>>> if there were more than a *very* small handful of after market
>>>> manufacturers making parts for these things. In fact I wouldn't be
>>>> the slightest bit surprised if the "mid range" items were the cheap
>>>> ones in a different box.
>>>
>>> That's the problem, very difficult to pick the difference.
>>
>> Then go with the cheap one. Odds are that the only difference you'd
>> notice is the weight of your wallet.
>>
> What is your authority to advise on details that will potentially affect
> vehicle safety? You cannot even be sure if the material quality will be
> the same in the cheapie versus the OEM. That's why people like you need
> to be kept out of the motor trade
>

Mechanics and auto electricians are refusing to fit parts that they have
not supplied for that very reason. People get on the net and buy the
cheapest shit possible, the mechanic (or auto sparky depending on what
it is) fits it and it fails in a short time where they have to deal with
comebacks that are not their fault.

An example would be power steering pumps that are much cheaper than
quality OEM, reconditioned or from a quality third party supplier
options that either don't work properly from new or fail in a very short
period. It's just cheap Chinese junk and you can bet $80 wishbones would
be the same.

You still get exactly what you pay for which an experienced mechanic
understands. Not the fraud obviously as he isn't qualified and doesn't
have any real world experience.

--
In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
proven liar."

On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
"He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."