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aus+uk / aus.computers / Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA now

SubjectAuthor
* Win7 is turning into a PITA nowOzix
+* Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA nowMarco Moock
|`* Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA nowOzix
| `* Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA nowMarco Moock
|  `* Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA nowMax
|   `* Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA nowMarco Moock
|    `* Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA nowPetzl
|     +* Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA nowMarco Moock
|     |`- Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA nowPetzl
|     `* Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA nowMax
|      `* Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA nowRod Speed
|       `* Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA nowMarco Moock
|        +- Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA nowPetzl
|        `* Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA nowRod Speed
|         `* Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA nowMarco Moock
|          `- Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA nowRod Speed
`* Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA nowYosemite Sam
 `* Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA nowComputer Nerd Kev
  +* Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA nowRod Speed
  |`* Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA nowPetzl
  | +* Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA nowMax
  | |`- Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA nowPetzl
  | +* Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA nowRod Speed
  | |`* Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA nowMax
  | | `- Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA nowRod Speed
  | `- Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA nowYosemite Sam
  +* Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA nowMax
  |`- Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA nowRod Speed
  `* Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA nowClocky
   +- Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA nowMarco Moock
   `* Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA nowComputer Nerd Kev
    +* Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA nowPetzl
    |`- Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA nowMarco Moock
    +* Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA nowMax
    |`* Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA nowComputer Nerd Kev
    | `* Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA nowMarco Moock
    |  `* Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA nowComputer Nerd Kev
    |   `- Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA nowMarco Moock
    `* Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA nowkeithr0
     `* Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA nowMarco Moock
      `* Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA nowkeithr0
       `- Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA nowMarco Moock

Pages:12
Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA now

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.computers
Subject: Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA now
Date: Mon, 09 May 2022 20:07:36 +1000
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 by: Rod Speed - Mon, 9 May 2022 10:07 UTC

On Mon, 09 May 2022 16:15:59 +1000, Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:

> Am Montag, 09. Mai 2022, um 10:42:40 Uhr schrieb Rod Speed:
>
>> On Mon, 09 May 2022 10:17:40 +1000, Max <max@val.morgan> wrote:
>>
>> > On 8/05/2022 7:57 pm, Petzl wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 8 May 2022 09:16:08 +0200, Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>> Am Sonntag, 08. Mai 2022, um 16:18:29 Uhr schrieb Max:
>> >>>
>> >>>> On 7/05/2022 7:35 pm, Marco Moock wrote:
>> >>>>> Am Samstag, 07. Mai 2022, um 10:19:08 Uhr schrieb Ozix:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> I just got 7 updates today (must be more than the virus
>> >>>>>> definitions). I presume there are still too many Win7 machines
>> >>>>>> out there, and Microsoft don't want them to become a botnet.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> You can check the update history to find out for which product
>> >>>>> these are.
>> >>>>> Windows Update also support other MS applications like Office.
>> >>>>> Maybe you installed updates for that.
>> >>>>> MS stopped providing updates for Windows 7 in Jan 2020. You can
>> >>>>> still get some when enabling ESU.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> How much does it cost to get ESU?
>> >>>
>> >>> I did not find an official price list on microsoft.com, but I
>> >>> found this:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> https://www.zdnet.com/article/how-much-will-staying-patched-on-windows-7-cost-you-heres-the-price-list/
>> >>> 100$ for Enterprise, 200$ for Professional. For that price you can
>> >>> easily buy a Windows 10 license if you really need Windows.
>> >>>
>> >>> Additionally, the support will definitely end on Jan 2023.
>> >>>
>> >> If widows defender updates stop just use the free vesion of AVG
>> >
>> > The security updates that MS provides are not just Windows Defender
>> > definition updates.
>> >
>> > There are general updates to anti-malware and other system updates
>> > that relate to security.
>> >
>> > You should not be using an operating system that is not receiving
>> > updates.
>>
>> Depends on what you do.
>
> If the system is connected to a network, it is a bad idea to use
> outdated software, especially an operating system.

Depends on how you do it.

Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA now

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From: mo0...@posteo.de (Marco Moock)
Newsgroups: aus.computers
Subject: Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA now
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 15:42:58 +0200
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 by: Marco Moock - Mon, 9 May 2022 13:42 UTC

Am Montag, 09. Mai 2022, um 20:07:36 Uhr schrieb Rod Speed:

> On Mon, 09 May 2022 16:15:59 +1000, Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de>
> wrote:
>
> > Am Montag, 09. Mai 2022, um 10:42:40 Uhr schrieb Rod Speed:
> >
> >> On Mon, 09 May 2022 10:17:40 +1000, Max <max@val.morgan> wrote:
> >>
> >> > On 8/05/2022 7:57 pm, Petzl wrote:
> >> >> On Sun, 8 May 2022 09:16:08 +0200, Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>> Am Sonntag, 08. Mai 2022, um 16:18:29 Uhr schrieb Max:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> On 7/05/2022 7:35 pm, Marco Moock wrote:
> >> >>>>> Am Samstag, 07. Mai 2022, um 10:19:08 Uhr schrieb Ozix:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>> I just got 7 updates today (must be more than the virus
> >> >>>>>> definitions). I presume there are still too many Win7
> >> >>>>>> machines out there, and Microsoft don't want them to become
> >> >>>>>> a botnet.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> You can check the update history to find out for which
> >> >>>>> product these are.
> >> >>>>> Windows Update also support other MS applications like
> >> >>>>> Office. Maybe you installed updates for that.
> >> >>>>> MS stopped providing updates for Windows 7 in Jan 2020. You
> >> >>>>> can still get some when enabling ESU.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> How much does it cost to get ESU?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I did not find an official price list on microsoft.com, but I
> >> >>> found this:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> https://www.zdnet.com/article/how-much-will-staying-patched-on-windows-7-cost-you-heres-the-price-list/
> >>
> >> >>> 100$ for Enterprise, 200$ for Professional. For that price you
> >> >>> can easily buy a Windows 10 license if you really need Windows.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Additionally, the support will definitely end on Jan 2023.
> >> >>>
> >> >> If widows defender updates stop just use the free vesion of AVG
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > The security updates that MS provides are not just Windows
> >> > Defender definition updates.
> >> >
> >> > There are general updates to anti-malware and other system
> >> > updates that relate to security.
> >> >
> >> > You should not be using an operating system that is not receiving
> >> > updates.
> >>
> >> Depends on what you do.
> >
> > If the system is connected to a network, it is a bad idea to use
> > outdated software, especially an operating system.
>
> Depends on how you do it.

If all network services provided by Windows are turned off, so no
service is listening, then the risk is minimal. If some are running
(default for Windows) there is a good chance that a vulnerability
exists.

Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA now

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.computers
Subject: Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA now
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 04:35:19 +1000
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 by: Rod Speed - Mon, 9 May 2022 18:35 UTC

On Mon, 09 May 2022 23:42:58 +1000, Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:

> Am Montag, 09. Mai 2022, um 20:07:36 Uhr schrieb Rod Speed:
>
>> On Mon, 09 May 2022 16:15:59 +1000, Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Am Montag, 09. Mai 2022, um 10:42:40 Uhr schrieb Rod Speed:
>> >
>> >> On Mon, 09 May 2022 10:17:40 +1000, Max <max@val.morgan> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > On 8/05/2022 7:57 pm, Petzl wrote:
>> >> >> On Sun, 8 May 2022 09:16:08 +0200, Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>> Am Sonntag, 08. Mai 2022, um 16:18:29 Uhr schrieb Max:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>> On 7/05/2022 7:35 pm, Marco Moock wrote:
>> >> >>>>> Am Samstag, 07. Mai 2022, um 10:19:08 Uhr schrieb Ozix:
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> I just got 7 updates today (must be more than the virus
>> >> >>>>>> definitions). I presume there are still too many Win7
>> >> >>>>>> machines out there, and Microsoft don't want them to become
>> >> >>>>>> a botnet.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> You can check the update history to find out for which
>> >> >>>>> product these are.
>> >> >>>>> Windows Update also support other MS applications like
>> >> >>>>> Office. Maybe you installed updates for that.
>> >> >>>>> MS stopped providing updates for Windows 7 in Jan 2020. You
>> >> >>>>> can still get some when enabling ESU.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> How much does it cost to get ESU?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> I did not find an official price list on microsoft.com, but I
>> >> >>> found this:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >>
>> https://www.zdnet.com/article/how-much-will-staying-patched-on-windows-7-cost-you-heres-the-price-list/
>> >>
>> >> >>> 100$ for Enterprise, 200$ for Professional. For that price you
>> >> >>> can easily buy a Windows 10 license if you really need Windows.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Additionally, the support will definitely end on Jan 2023.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >> If widows defender updates stop just use the free vesion of AVG
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > The security updates that MS provides are not just Windows
>> >> > Defender definition updates.
>> >> >
>> >> > There are general updates to anti-malware and other system
>> >> > updates that relate to security.
>> >> >
>> >> > You should not be using an operating system that is not receiving
>> >> > updates.
>> >>
>> >> Depends on what you do.
>> >
>> > If the system is connected to a network, it is a bad idea to use
>> > outdated software, especially an operating system.
>>
>> Depends on how you do it.
>
> If all network services provided by Windows are turned off, so no
> service is listening, then the risk is minimal.

And it is even easier to reduce the risk to ZERO.

> If some are running
> (default for Windows) there is a good chance that a vulnerability
> exists.

Trivial to avoid any risk what so ever.

Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA now

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From: notgo...@happen.com (Clocky)
Newsgroups: aus.computers
Subject: Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA now
Date: Sat, 21 May 2022 09:11:49 +0800
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 by: Clocky - Sat, 21 May 2022 01:11 UTC

On 20/04/2022 7:02 am, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> Yosemite Sam <felix@invalid.com> wrote:
>> On 19/04/2022 7:14 pm, Ozix wrote:
>>> I had 2 old notebooks with Vista, decided to upgrade to Win7 rather
>>> than chuck them out on verge collection.
>>> I have a desktop with Win7, and it still goes, getting the virus
>>> definitions updated every few days.
>>> One notebook was 32-bit. It was fairly simple. Installed Win7 SP1.
>>> Then install servicing stack update then the convenience rollup to get
>>> all the patches. But had to install Firefox as IE8 would not work anymore
>>> on lots of sites.
>>> But the 64-bit version, when I tried to install the servicing stack
>>> update, complains some shite about certificate chain root is not
>>> trusted. Search some forums, try some patch for SHA-2. Try again to
>>> install SSU, this time get the green bar going all the way across, and
>>> it declares it was not installed (but no error message). Try a few
>>> more SSU; it was updated on various dates. All the same.
>>> So last resort, update windows update itself. Check for updates,
>>> wait all evening to download and install the fuckers.
>>
>>
>> erase the HD's and install win10
>
> Replace a bad dream with a nightmare? Though it's true that wanting
> Windows 7 _and_ current updates is a plain contradiction. If the
> virus scanner definition updates are the main thing, then just
> switch to a 3rd party virus scanner (maybe an old version of a free
> one that's still getting definition updates).
>
> I'd put Linux on them (a lightweight distro, no bloated GNOME etc.
> stuff) and they'd perform better than ever.
>

That's never been true for any time I have installed Linux. It's always
a PITA one way or the other and unworkable.

Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA now

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From: mo0...@posteo.de (Marco Moock)
Newsgroups: aus.computers
Subject: Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA now
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 by: Marco Moock - Sat, 21 May 2022 08:12 UTC

Am Samstag, 21. Mai 2022, um 09:11:49 Uhr schrieb Clocky:

> That's never been true for any time I have installed Linux. It's
> always a PITA one way or the other and unworkable.

What did you try?
Try out Debian with Motif Window Manager, that is very, very
lightweight.

Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA now

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From: not...@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev)
Subject: Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA now
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 by: Computer Nerd Kev - Sun, 22 May 2022 01:50 UTC

Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> wrote:
> On 20/04/2022 7:02 am, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>> I'd put Linux on them (a lightweight distro, no bloated GNOME etc.
>> stuff) and they'd perform better than ever.
>
> That's never been true for any time I have installed Linux. It's always
> a PITA one way or the other and unworkable.

You're doing it wrong then. Granted Linux driver issues can be a
pain, though sometimes even that is the other way round and they
actually work better than crappy Windows ones.

Admittedly there's becomming a long list of software that I don't
like which is popular on Linux, including Systemd, Grub2, GNOME,
Wayland. But you have the choice to avoid it all unlike on Windows
where you're just stuck with M$'s rubbish. When I was running XP I
put a lot of effort into setting up alternatives for explorer.exe
(which runs the task bar, menu, and desktop as well as the file
manager), for example, and still didn't get near the reliability
and performance of a similar environment set up on Linux.

Windows 10 even likes to randomly revert all the very limited
settings that they do let you change.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA now

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Subject: Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA now
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 by: Petzl - Sun, 22 May 2022 02:18 UTC

On 22 May 2022 11:50:55 +1000, not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd
Kev) wrote:

>Windows 10 even likes to randomly revert all the very limited
>settings that they do let you change.
>
Pisses me off and not uncommon.
--
Petzl
Australian's continue to vote for and believe slogans?

"My first act as Prime Minister will be to raise the speed limit, lower the
fines, cancel the tolls. ban any future virus lock downs.
Thank you " Anthony Albanese

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From: mo0...@posteo.de (Marco Moock)
Newsgroups: aus.computers
Subject: Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA now
Date: Sun, 22 May 2022 06:35:06 +0200
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 by: Marco Moock - Sun, 22 May 2022 04:35 UTC

Am Sun, 22 May 2022 12:18:27 +1000
schrieb Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com>:

> On 22 May 2022 11:50:55 +1000, not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd
> Kev) wrote:
>
> >Windows 10 even likes to randomly revert all the very limited
> >settings that they do let you change.
> >
> Pisses me off and not uncommon.

That's why I completely switched to Linux with the support end of Vista
in 2017.
I only use Windows now in a VM at work if I really need special
software for windows.

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From: max...@val.morgan (Max)
Newsgroups: aus.computers
Subject: Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA now
Date: Sun, 22 May 2022 14:43:49 +1000
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 by: Max - Sun, 22 May 2022 04:43 UTC

On 22/05/2022 11:50 am, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> wrote:
>> On 20/04/2022 7:02 am, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>> I'd put Linux on them (a lightweight distro, no bloated GNOME etc.
>>> stuff) and they'd perform better than ever.
>>
>> That's never been true for any time I have installed Linux. It's always
>> a PITA one way or the other and unworkable.
>
> You're doing it wrong then. Granted Linux driver issues can be a
> pain, though sometimes even that is the other way round and they
> actually work better than crappy Windows ones.
>
> Admittedly there's becomming a long list of software that I don't
> like which is popular on Linux, including Systemd, Grub2, GNOME,
> Wayland. But you have the choice to avoid it all unlike on Windows
> where you're just stuck with M$'s rubbish. When I was running XP I
> put a lot of effort into setting up alternatives for explorer.exe
> (which runs the task bar, menu, and desktop as well as the file
> manager), for example, and still didn't get near the reliability
> and performance of a similar environment set up on Linux.
>
> Windows 10 even likes to randomly revert all the very limited
> settings that they do let you change.
>

For a lot of people there is a necessity to use MS Office, which means
it's a choice between Windows or Mac.

Libre/Open Office is not considered a good enough subtitute for a lot of
people.

The issue is as simple as that for a lot of people.

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From: not...@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev)
Subject: Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA now
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 by: Computer Nerd Kev - Sun, 22 May 2022 07:46 UTC

Max <max@val.morgan> wrote:
>
> For a lot of people there is a necessity to use MS Office, which means
> it's a choice between Windows or Mac.

Now that M$ are offering a web browser based suite with Office 365
subscriptions you can use that on Linux. Apparantly They also have a
free browser based office suite, but it's more limited.

Plus, if you pick the right version, you can run regular Microsoft
Office on Linux using Wine.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

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Newsgroups: aus.computers
Subject: Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA now
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 by: Marco Moock - Sun, 22 May 2022 13:24 UTC

Am 22 May 2022 17:46:20 +1000
schrieb Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid>:

> Now that M$ are offering a web browser based suite with Office 365
> subscriptions you can use that on Linux.

Office Online is even incompatible with certain MS Office features in
docx files. It is worse than LibreOffice when editing docx.
We have that on Sharepoint at work and every time somebody edits a docx
with Office Online that has special formatting, e.g. tables, something
is broken.

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From: not...@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev)
Subject: Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA now
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 by: Computer Nerd Kev - Sun, 22 May 2022 22:49 UTC

Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:
> Am 22 May 2022 17:46:20 +1000
> schrieb Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid>:
>
>> Now that M$ are offering a web browser based suite with Office 365
>> subscriptions you can use that on Linux.
>
> Office Online is even incompatible with certain MS Office features in
> docx files. It is worse than LibreOffice when editing docx.
> We have that on Sharepoint at work and every time somebody edits a docx
> with Office Online that has special formatting, e.g. tables, something
> is broken.

I believe "Office Online" is the free one that I referred to, and
different to the browser-based implementation of Office 365 which
is more feature-complete. However I'm blissfully detached from all
this and have never used either.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

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Newsgroups: aus.computers
Subject: Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA now
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 by: keithr0 - Sun, 22 May 2022 23:20 UTC

On 22/05/2022 11:50 am, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> wrote:
>> On 20/04/2022 7:02 am, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>> I'd put Linux on them (a lightweight distro, no bloated GNOME etc.
>>> stuff) and they'd perform better than ever.
>>
>> That's never been true for any time I have installed Linux. It's always
>> a PITA one way or the other and unworkable.
>
> You're doing it wrong then. Granted Linux driver issues can be a
> pain, though sometimes even that is the other way round and they
> actually work better than crappy Windows ones.
>
> Admittedly there's becomming a long list of software that I don't
> like which is popular on Linux, including Systemd, Grub2, GNOME,
> Wayland. But you have the choice to avoid it all unlike on Windows
> where you're just stuck with M$'s rubbish. When I was running XP I
> put a lot of effort into setting up alternatives for explorer.exe
> (which runs the task bar, menu, and desktop as well as the file
> manager), for example, and still didn't get near the reliability
> and performance of a similar environment set up on Linux.
>
> Windows 10 even likes to randomly revert all the very limited
> settings that they do let you change.
>
People say this, but I've used win10 and win11 ever since they came out,
and have had few to no problems.

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 by: Marco Moock - Mon, 23 May 2022 04:14 UTC

Am 23 May 2022 08:49:03 +1000
schrieb not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev):

> I believe "Office Online" is the free one that I referred to, and
> different to the browser-based implementation of Office 365 which
> is more feature-complete. However I'm blissfully detached from all
> this and have never used either.

At school we have Teams and can also edit documents via Office Online
(I don't know if there is a difference to Office 365), there are the
same problems.

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 by: Marco Moock - Mon, 23 May 2022 04:17 UTC

Am Mon, 23 May 2022 09:20:45 +1000
schrieb keithr0 <user@account.invalid>:

> > Windows 10 even likes to randomly revert all the very limited
> > settings that they do let you change.
> >
> People say this, but I've used win10 and win11 ever since they came
> out, and have had few to no problems.

That affects the privacy settings that can control how MS can spy you
out. After a feature upgrade you will be asked some questions and if
you choose Express settings instead of customize, the settings will be
set that many data is being sent to MS.

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 by: keithr0 - Mon, 23 May 2022 07:18 UTC

On 23/05/2022 2:17 pm, Marco Moock wrote:
> Am Mon, 23 May 2022 09:20:45 +1000
> schrieb keithr0 <user@account.invalid>:
>
>>> Windows 10 even likes to randomly revert all the very limited
>>> settings that they do let you change.
>>>
>> People say this, but I've used win10 and win11 ever since they came
>> out, and have had few to no problems.
>
> That affects the privacy settings that can control how MS can spy you
> out. After a feature upgrade you will be asked some questions and if
> you choose Express settings instead of customize, the settings will be
> set that many data is being sent to MS.
>
I have M$ telemetry blacklisted in PiHole.

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Newsgroups: aus.computers
Subject: Re: Win7 is turning into a PITA now
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 by: Marco Moock - Tue, 24 May 2022 04:25 UTC

Am Mon, 23 May 2022 17:18:27 +1000
schrieb keithr0 <user@account.invalid>:

> I have M$ telemetry blacklisted in PiHole.

I know that this is possible, but MS can use many, many domain names
and every time the blocklist must be updated.
If they decide to use a generic domain like update.microsoft.com for
uploading telemetry, then it is over with DNS blocking.

This is why I don't use Windows in any productive environment. I only
use it in very specific situations where I really need it and only for
that purpose. Often these applications require older versions like XP.

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