Do LU do their rail grinding regularly or can this be cause by poor rail
grinding? The noise was absolutely appalling today between london bridge and
canada water to the point where I had to put fingers in my ears briefly.
I realise the concrete track and close tunnel walls don't help , but even so
it was a disgrace.

<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
> Do LU do their rail grinding regularly or can this be cause by poor rail
> grinding? The noise was absolutely appalling today between london bridge and
> canada water to the point where I had to put fingers in my ears briefly.
> I realise the concrete track and close tunnel walls don't help , but even so
> it was a disgrace.

Similarly between Baker Street and Finchley Road. It’s actively painful.

Lew

On 25/03/2022 17:54, Lew 1 wrote:
> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> Do LU do their rail grinding regularly or can this be cause by poor rail
>> grinding? The noise was absolutely appalling today between london bridge and
>> canada water to the point where I had to put fingers in my ears briefly.
>> I realise the concrete track and close tunnel walls don't help , but even so
>> it was a disgrace.
>
> Similarly between Baker Street and Finchley Road. It’s actively painful.
>
> Lew
>

Ahem :

https://www.mylondon.news/lifestyle/travel/london-underground-northern-line-tracks-21061932

GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> wrote:
> On 25/03/2022 17:54, Lew 1 wrote:
>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>> Do LU do their rail grinding regularly or can this be cause by poor rail
>>> grinding? The noise was absolutely appalling today between london bridge and
>>> canada water to the point where I had to put fingers in my ears briefly.
>>> I realise the concrete track and close tunnel walls don't help , but even so
>>> it was a disgrace.
>>
>> Similarly between Baker Street and Finchley Road. It’s actively painful.
>>
>> Lew
>>
>
>
> Ahem :
>
> https://www.mylondon.news/lifestyle/travel/london-underground-northern-line-tracks-210619

That article talks about screeching rails on the Northern Line… the Jubilee
line seems to suffer from a different (but no less unpleasant) noise - a
loud and continuous roar in certain sections.

Lew

On 25/03/2022 19:18, Lew 1 wrote:
> GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> wrote:
>> On 25/03/2022 17:54, Lew 1 wrote:
>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>> Do LU do their rail grinding regularly or can this be cause by poor rail
>>>> grinding? The noise was absolutely appalling today between london bridge and
>>>> canada water to the point where I had to put fingers in my ears briefly.
>>>> I realise the concrete track and close tunnel walls don't help , but even so
>>>> it was a disgrace.
>>>
>>> Similarly between Baker Street and Finchley Road. It’s actively painful.
>>>
>>> Lew
>>>
>>
>>
>> Ahem :
>>
>> https://www.mylondon.news/lifestyle/travel/london-underground-northern-line-tracks-210619
>
> That article talks about screeching rails on the Northern Line… the Jubilee
> line seems to suffer from a different (but no less unpleasant) noise - a
> loud and continuous roar in certain sections.
>
> Lew
>

Have you ever been to the South Ferry Loop when it was still open to
passengers?

I think that this was one reason why New York City Transit finally
decided to build a separate station.

Lew 1 <email@nowhere.com> wrote:
> GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> wrote:
>> On 25/03/2022 17:54, Lew 1 wrote:
>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>> Do LU do their rail grinding regularly or can this be cause by poor rail
>>>> grinding? The noise was absolutely appalling today between london bridge and
>>>> canada water to the point where I had to put fingers in my ears briefly.
>>>> I realise the concrete track and close tunnel walls don't help , but even so
>>>> it was a disgrace.
>>>
>>> Similarly between Baker Street and Finchley Road. It’s actively painful.
>>>
>>> Lew
>>>
>>
>>
>> Ahem :
>>
>> https://www.mylondon.news/lifestyle/travel/london-underground-northern-line-tracks-210619
>
> That article talks about screeching rails on the Northern Line… the Jubilee
> line seems to suffer from a different (but no less unpleasant) noise - a
> loud and continuous roar in certain sections.
>

Yes, that seems to occur on newer tunnels, even if they're straight, for
example, the Piccadilly line to T5. It sounds like some sort of resonance
in smooth, modern concrete tunnels.

On Fri, 25 Mar 2022 18:01:38 +0000
GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> wrote:
>On 25/03/2022 17:54, Lew 1 wrote:
>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>> Do LU do their rail grinding regularly or can this be cause by poor rail
>>> grinding? The noise was absolutely appalling today between london bridge and
>
>>> canada water to the point where I had to put fingers in my ears briefly.
>>> I realise the concrete track and close tunnel walls don't help , but even so
>
>>> it was a disgrace.
>>
>> Similarly between Baker Street and Finchley Road. It’s actively painful.
>>
>> Lew
>>
>
>
>Ahem :
>
>https://www.mylondon.news/lifestyle/travel/london-underground-northern-line-tra
>cks-21061932
>

Its fair enough on curved track, but on the jubilee it was on straight track
so really no excuses.

On 25/03/2022 23:43, Recliner wrote:
> Lew 1 <email@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 25/03/2022 17:54, Lew 1 wrote:
>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>> Do LU do their rail grinding regularly or can this be cause by poor rail
>>>>> grinding? The noise was absolutely appalling today between london bridge and
>>>>> canada water to the point where I had to put fingers in my ears briefly.
>>>>> I realise the concrete track and close tunnel walls don't help , but even so
>>>>> it was a disgrace.
>>>>
>>>> Similarly between Baker Street and Finchley Road. It’s actively painful.
>>>>
>>>> Lew
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ahem :
>>>
>>> https://www.mylondon.news/lifestyle/travel/london-underground-northern-line-tracks-210619
>>
>> That article talks about screeching rails on the Northern Line… the Jubilee
>> line seems to suffer from a different (but no less unpleasant) noise - a
>> loud and continuous roar in certain sections.
>>
>
> Yes, that seems to occur on newer tunnels, even if they're straight, for
> example, the Piccadilly line to T5. It sounds like some sort of resonance
> in smooth, modern concrete tunnels.
>

Seems logical. In old tunnels there were wooden sleepers and ballast to
absorb sound (even layers of dirt!). Modern concrete tunnels do not have
any natural absorbent features so the noises naturally generated by
steel on steel have nowhere to go.

--
Colin

ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
> On 25/03/2022 23:43, Recliner wrote:
>> Lew 1 <email@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>> GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 25/03/2022 17:54, Lew 1 wrote:
>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Do LU do their rail grinding regularly or can this be cause by poor rail
>>>>>> grinding? The noise was absolutely appalling today between london bridge and
>>>>>> canada water to the point where I had to put fingers in my ears briefly.
>>>>>> I realise the concrete track and close tunnel walls don't help , but even so
>>>>>> it was a disgrace.
>>>>>
>>>>> Similarly between Baker Street and Finchley Road. It’s actively painful.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lew
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ahem :
>>>>
>>>> https://www.mylondon.news/lifestyle/travel/london-underground-northern-line-tracks-210619
>>>
>>> That article talks about screeching rails on the Northern Line… the Jubilee
>>> line seems to suffer from a different (but no less unpleasant) noise - a
>>> loud and continuous roar in certain sections.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, that seems to occur on newer tunnels, even if they're straight, for
>> example, the Piccadilly line to T5. It sounds like some sort of resonance
>> in smooth, modern concrete tunnels.
>>
>
> Seems logical. In old tunnels there were wooden sleepers and ballast to
> absorb sound (even layers of dirt!). Modern concrete tunnels do not have
> any natural absorbent features so the noises naturally generated by
> steel on steel have nowhere to go.

Doesn’t explain Baker Street to Finchley Road… now I think about it, it
seems to be the Northbound direction that I find particularly ghastly. I
wonder if they have altered something in that tunnel over the years?

Lew

On Sat, 26 Mar 2022 18:23:52 -0000 (UTC), Lew 1 <email@nowhere.com>
wrote:

>ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 25/03/2022 23:43, Recliner wrote:
>>> Lew 1 <email@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>> GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> On 25/03/2022 17:54, Lew 1 wrote:
>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Do LU do their rail grinding regularly or can this be cause by poor rail
>>>>>>> grinding? The noise was absolutely appalling today between london bridge and
>>>>>>> canada water to the point where I had to put fingers in my ears briefly.
>>>>>>> I realise the concrete track and close tunnel walls don't help , but even so
>>>>>>> it was a disgrace.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Similarly between Baker Street and Finchley Road. It’s actively painful.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lew
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ahem :
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.mylondon.news/lifestyle/travel/london-underground-northern-line-tracks-210619
>>>>
>>>> That article talks about screeching rails on the Northern Line… the Jubilee
>>>> line seems to suffer from a different (but no less unpleasant) noise - a
>>>> loud and continuous roar in certain sections.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, that seems to occur on newer tunnels, even if they're straight, for
>>> example, the Piccadilly line to T5. It sounds like some sort of resonance
>>> in smooth, modern concrete tunnels.
>>>
>>
>> Seems logical. In old tunnels there were wooden sleepers and ballast to
>> absorb sound (even layers of dirt!). Modern concrete tunnels do not have
>> any natural absorbent features so the noises naturally generated by
>> steel on steel have nowhere to go.
>
>Doesn’t explain Baker Street to Finchley Road… now I think about it, it
>seems to be the Northbound direction that I find particularly ghastly. I
>wonder if they have altered something in that tunnel over the years?
>
IIRC that noise came on rather suddenly, suggesting either new rails
with a different profile or the profile being re-ground.

Lew 1 <email@nowhere.com> wrote:
> ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 25/03/2022 23:43, Recliner wrote:
>>> Lew 1 <email@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>> GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> On 25/03/2022 17:54, Lew 1 wrote:
>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Do LU do their rail grinding regularly or can this be cause by poor rail
>>>>>>> grinding? The noise was absolutely appalling today between london bridge and
>>>>>>> canada water to the point where I had to put fingers in my ears briefly.
>>>>>>> I realise the concrete track and close tunnel walls don't help , but even so
>>>>>>> it was a disgrace.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Similarly between Baker Street and Finchley Road. It’s actively painful.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lew
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ahem :
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.mylondon.news/lifestyle/travel/london-underground-northern-line-tracks-210619
>>>>
>>>> That article talks about screeching rails on the Northern Line… the Jubilee
>>>> line seems to suffer from a different (but no less unpleasant) noise - a
>>>> loud and continuous roar in certain sections.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, that seems to occur on newer tunnels, even if they're straight, for
>>> example, the Piccadilly line to T5. It sounds like some sort of resonance
>>> in smooth, modern concrete tunnels.
>>>
>>
>> Seems logical. In old tunnels there were wooden sleepers and ballast to
>> absorb sound (even layers of dirt!). Modern concrete tunnels do not have
>> any natural absorbent features so the noises naturally generated by
>> steel on steel have nowhere to go.
>
> Doesn’t explain Baker Street to Finchley Road… now I think about it, it
> seems to be the Northbound direction that I find particularly ghastly. I
> wonder if they have altered something in that tunnel over the years?
>

Is some of that tunnel new? When the Jubilee and Bakerloo lines were
separated, didn't the Jubilee get new tunnels at the Baker St end?

On Sat, 26 Mar 2022 23:35:04 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
<recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

>Lew 1 <email@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 25/03/2022 23:43, Recliner wrote:
>>>> Lew 1 <email@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>> GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> On 25/03/2022 17:54, Lew 1 wrote:
>>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Do LU do their rail grinding regularly or can this be cause by poor rail
>>>>>>>> grinding? The noise was absolutely appalling today between london bridge and
>>>>>>>> canada water to the point where I had to put fingers in my ears briefly.
>>>>>>>> I realise the concrete track and close tunnel walls don't help , but even so
>>>>>>>> it was a disgrace.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Similarly between Baker Street and Finchley Road. It’s actively painful.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lew
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ahem :
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.mylondon.news/lifestyle/travel/london-underground-northern-line-tracks-210619
>>>>>
>>>>> That article talks about screeching rails on the Northern Line… the Jubilee
>>>>> line seems to suffer from a different (but no less unpleasant) noise - a
>>>>> loud and continuous roar in certain sections.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, that seems to occur on newer tunnels, even if they're straight, for
>>>> example, the Piccadilly line to T5. It sounds like some sort of resonance
>>>> in smooth, modern concrete tunnels.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Seems logical. In old tunnels there were wooden sleepers and ballast to
>>> absorb sound (even layers of dirt!). Modern concrete tunnels do not have
>>> any natural absorbent features so the noises naturally generated by
>>> steel on steel have nowhere to go.
>>
>> Doesn’t explain Baker Street to Finchley Road… now I think about it, it
>> seems to be the Northbound direction that I find particularly ghastly. I
>> wonder if they have altered something in that tunnel over the years?
>>
>
>Is some of that tunnel new? When the Jubilee and Bakerloo lines were
>separated, didn't the Jubilee get new tunnels at the Baker St end?
>
One new platform. There were already two southbound platforms
pre-Jubilee Line to prevent southbound Bakerloo trains queuing to
unload at Baker Street.

On Sun, 27 Mar 2022 21:47:05 +0100, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 26 Mar 2022 23:35:04 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
><recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Lew 1 <email@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>> ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 25/03/2022 23:43, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> Lew 1 <email@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>> GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 25/03/2022 17:54, Lew 1 wrote:
>>>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Do LU do their rail grinding regularly or can this be cause by poor rail
>>>>>>>>> grinding? The noise was absolutely appalling today between london bridge and
>>>>>>>>> canada water to the point where I had to put fingers in my ears briefly.
>>>>>>>>> I realise the concrete track and close tunnel walls don't help , but even so
>>>>>>>>> it was a disgrace.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Similarly between Baker Street and Finchley Road. It’s actively painful.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lew
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ahem :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.mylondon.news/lifestyle/travel/london-underground-northern-line-tracks-210619
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That article talks about screeching rails on the Northern Line… the Jubilee
>>>>>> line seems to suffer from a different (but no less unpleasant) noise - a
>>>>>> loud and continuous roar in certain sections.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, that seems to occur on newer tunnels, even if they're straight, for
>>>>> example, the Piccadilly line to T5. It sounds like some sort of resonance
>>>>> in smooth, modern concrete tunnels.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Seems logical. In old tunnels there were wooden sleepers and ballast to
>>>> absorb sound (even layers of dirt!). Modern concrete tunnels do not have
>>>> any natural absorbent features so the noises naturally generated by
>>>> steel on steel have nowhere to go.
>>>
>>> Doesn’t explain Baker Street to Finchley Road… now I think about it, it
>>> seems to be the Northbound direction that I find particularly ghastly. I
>>> wonder if they have altered something in that tunnel over the years?
>>>
>>
>>Is some of that tunnel new? When the Jubilee and Bakerloo lines were
>>separated, didn't the Jubilee get new tunnels at the Baker St end?
>>
>One new platform. There were already two southbound platforms
>pre-Jubilee Line to prevent southbound Bakerloo trains queuing to
>unload at Baker Street.

Yes, you're right.

I wonder if there were any other major changes made to the tunnels as part of the conversion to the Jubilee line?

On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 14:29:01 +0100, Recliner
<recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 27 Mar 2022 21:47:05 +0100, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 26 Mar 2022 23:35:04 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>><recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Lew 1 <email@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>> ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 25/03/2022 23:43, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>> Lew 1 <email@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2022 17:54, Lew 1 wrote:
>>>>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Do LU do their rail grinding regularly or can this be cause by poor rail
>>>>>>>>>> grinding? The noise was absolutely appalling today between london bridge and
>>>>>>>>>> canada water to the point where I had to put fingers in my ears briefly.
>>>>>>>>>> I realise the concrete track and close tunnel walls don't help , but even so
>>>>>>>>>> it was a disgrace.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Similarly between Baker Street and Finchley Road. It’s actively painful.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Lew
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ahem :
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.mylondon.news/lifestyle/travel/london-underground-northern-line-tracks-210619
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That article talks about screeching rails on the Northern Line… the Jubilee
>>>>>>> line seems to suffer from a different (but no less unpleasant) noise - a
>>>>>>> loud and continuous roar in certain sections.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, that seems to occur on newer tunnels, even if they're straight, for
>>>>>> example, the Piccadilly line to T5. It sounds like some sort of resonance
>>>>>> in smooth, modern concrete tunnels.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Seems logical. In old tunnels there were wooden sleepers and ballast to
>>>>> absorb sound (even layers of dirt!). Modern concrete tunnels do not have
>>>>> any natural absorbent features so the noises naturally generated by
>>>>> steel on steel have nowhere to go.
>>>>
>>>> Doesn’t explain Baker Street to Finchley Road… now I think about it, it
>>>> seems to be the Northbound direction that I find particularly ghastly. I
>>>> wonder if they have altered something in that tunnel over the years?
>>>>
>>>
>>>Is some of that tunnel new? When the Jubilee and Bakerloo lines were
>>>separated, didn't the Jubilee get new tunnels at the Baker St end?
>>>
>>One new platform. There were already two southbound platforms
>>pre-Jubilee Line to prevent southbound Bakerloo trains queuing to
>>unload at Baker Street.
>
>Yes, you're right.
>
>I wonder if there were any other major changes made to the tunnels as part of the conversion to the Jubilee line?
>
Apart from the new bit of tunnel and the additional platform, none
that I am aware of. My recollection is that the "noise" has only
arisen in relatively more recent times.

Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 14:29:01 +0100, Recliner
> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 27 Mar 2022 21:47:05 +0100, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 26 Mar 2022 23:35:04 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Lew 1 <email@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>> ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On 25/03/2022 23:43, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>> Lew 1 <email@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2022 17:54, Lew 1 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Do LU do their rail grinding regularly or can this be cause by poor rail
>>>>>>>>>>> grinding? The noise was absolutely appalling today between london bridge and
>>>>>>>>>>> canada water to the point where I had to put fingers in my ears briefly.
>>>>>>>>>>> I realise the concrete track and close tunnel walls don't help , but even so
>>>>>>>>>>> it was a disgrace.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Similarly between Baker Street and Finchley Road. It’s actively painful.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Lew
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ahem :
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.mylondon.news/lifestyle/travel/london-underground-northern-line-tracks-210619
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That article talks about screeching rails on the Northern Line… the Jubilee
>>>>>>>> line seems to suffer from a different (but no less unpleasant) noise - a
>>>>>>>> loud and continuous roar in certain sections.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, that seems to occur on newer tunnels, even if they're straight, for
>>>>>>> example, the Piccadilly line to T5. It sounds like some sort of resonance
>>>>>>> in smooth, modern concrete tunnels.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Seems logical. In old tunnels there were wooden sleepers and ballast to
>>>>>> absorb sound (even layers of dirt!). Modern concrete tunnels do not have
>>>>>> any natural absorbent features so the noises naturally generated by
>>>>>> steel on steel have nowhere to go.
>>>>>
>>>>> Doesn’t explain Baker Street to Finchley Road… now I think about it, it
>>>>> seems to be the Northbound direction that I find particularly ghastly. I
>>>>> wonder if they have altered something in that tunnel over the years?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Is some of that tunnel new? When the Jubilee and Bakerloo lines were
>>>> separated, didn't the Jubilee get new tunnels at the Baker St end?
>>>>
>>> One new platform. There were already two southbound platforms
>>> pre-Jubilee Line to prevent southbound Bakerloo trains queuing to
>>> unload at Baker Street.
>>
>> Yes, you're right.
>>
>> I wonder if there were any other major changes made to the tunnels as
>> part of the conversion to the Jubilee line?
>>
> Apart from the new bit of tunnel and the additional platform, none
> that I am aware of. My recollection is that the "noise" has only
> arisen in relatively more recent times.
>

Perhaps they've replaced the track, and used a new design of mounting or
clip?

On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 21:12:59 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
<recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

>Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 14:29:01 +0100, Recliner
>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 27 Mar 2022 21:47:05 +0100, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 26 Mar 2022 23:35:04 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Lew 1 <email@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>> ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 25/03/2022 23:43, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>> Lew 1 <email@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2022 17:54, Lew 1 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Do LU do their rail grinding regularly or can this be cause by poor rail
>>>>>>>>>>>> grinding? The noise was absolutely appalling today between london bridge and
>>>>>>>>>>>> canada water to the point where I had to put fingers in my ears briefly.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I realise the concrete track and close tunnel walls don't help , but even so
>>>>>>>>>>>> it was a disgrace.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Similarly between Baker Street and Finchley Road. It?s actively painful.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Lew
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ahem :
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.mylondon.news/lifestyle/travel/london-underground-northern-line-tracks-210619
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That article talks about screeching rails on the Northern Line? the Jubilee
>>>>>>>>> line seems to suffer from a different (but no less unpleasant) noise - a
>>>>>>>>> loud and continuous roar in certain sections.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, that seems to occur on newer tunnels, even if they're straight, for
>>>>>>>> example, the Piccadilly line to T5. It sounds like some sort of resonance
>>>>>>>> in smooth, modern concrete tunnels.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Seems logical. In old tunnels there were wooden sleepers and ballast to
>>>>>>> absorb sound (even layers of dirt!). Modern concrete tunnels do not have
>>>>>>> any natural absorbent features so the noises naturally generated by
>>>>>>> steel on steel have nowhere to go.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Doesn?t explain Baker Street to Finchley Road? now I think about it, it
>>>>>> seems to be the Northbound direction that I find particularly ghastly. I
>>>>>> wonder if they have altered something in that tunnel over the years?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Is some of that tunnel new? When the Jubilee and Bakerloo lines were
>>>>> separated, didn't the Jubilee get new tunnels at the Baker St end?
>>>>>
>>>> One new platform. There were already two southbound platforms
>>>> pre-Jubilee Line to prevent southbound Bakerloo trains queuing to
>>>> unload at Baker Street.
>>>
>>> Yes, you're right.
>>>
>>> I wonder if there were any other major changes made to the tunnels as
>>> part of the conversion to the Jubilee line?
>>>
>> Apart from the new bit of tunnel and the additional platform, none
>> that I am aware of. My recollection is that the "noise" has only
>> arisen in relatively more recent times.
>>
>
>Perhaps they've replaced the track, and used a new design of mounting or
>clip?
>
I would have gone for re-profiled (including rail replacement) or
re-ground. It seems like a worse version of what you get going a very
tight curve at low speed. Looking at it the other way, has the wheel
profile of Jubilee Line trains been changed?

Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 21:12:59 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 14:29:01 +0100, Recliner
>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 27 Mar 2022 21:47:05 +0100, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 26 Mar 2022 23:35:04 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Lew 1 <email@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2022 23:43, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Lew 1 <email@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2022 17:54, Lew 1 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do LU do their rail grinding regularly or can this be cause by poor rail
>>>>>>>>>>>>> grinding? The noise was absolutely appalling today between london bridge and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> canada water to the point where I had to put fingers in my ears briefly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I realise the concrete track and close tunnel walls don't help , but even so
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it was a disgrace.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Similarly between Baker Street and Finchley Road. It?s actively painful.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lew
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ahem :
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.mylondon.news/lifestyle/travel/london-underground-northern-line-tracks-210619
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That article talks about screeching rails on the Northern Line? the Jubilee
>>>>>>>>>> line seems to suffer from a different (but no less unpleasant) noise - a
>>>>>>>>>> loud and continuous roar in certain sections.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes, that seems to occur on newer tunnels, even if they're straight, for
>>>>>>>>> example, the Piccadilly line to T5. It sounds like some sort of resonance
>>>>>>>>> in smooth, modern concrete tunnels.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Seems logical. In old tunnels there were wooden sleepers and ballast to
>>>>>>>> absorb sound (even layers of dirt!). Modern concrete tunnels do not have
>>>>>>>> any natural absorbent features so the noises naturally generated by
>>>>>>>> steel on steel have nowhere to go.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Doesn?t explain Baker Street to Finchley Road? now I think about it, it
>>>>>>> seems to be the Northbound direction that I find particularly ghastly. I
>>>>>>> wonder if they have altered something in that tunnel over the years?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is some of that tunnel new? When the Jubilee and Bakerloo lines were
>>>>>> separated, didn't the Jubilee get new tunnels at the Baker St end?
>>>>>>
>>>>> One new platform. There were already two southbound platforms
>>>>> pre-Jubilee Line to prevent southbound Bakerloo trains queuing to
>>>>> unload at Baker Street.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, you're right.
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if there were any other major changes made to the tunnels as
>>>> part of the conversion to the Jubilee line?
>>>>
>>> Apart from the new bit of tunnel and the additional platform, none
>>> that I am aware of. My recollection is that the "noise" has only
>>> arisen in relatively more recent times.
>>>
>>
>> Perhaps they've replaced the track, and used a new design of mounting or
>> clip?
>>
> I would have gone for re-profiled (including rail replacement) or
> re-ground. It seems like a worse version of what you get going a very
> tight curve at low speed. Looking at it the other way, has the wheel
> profile of Jubilee Line trains been changed?
>

I really doubt that the wheel profile of the trains will have changed.
Aren't the trains maintained by Alstom?

Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 21:12:59 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 14:29:01 +0100, Recliner
>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 27 Mar 2022 21:47:05 +0100, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 26 Mar 2022 23:35:04 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Lew 1 <email@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2022 23:43, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Lew 1 <email@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2022 17:54, Lew 1 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do LU do their rail grinding regularly or can this be cause by poor rail
>>>>>>>>>>>>> grinding? The noise was absolutely appalling today between london bridge and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> canada water to the point where I had to put fingers in my ears briefly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I realise the concrete track and close tunnel walls don't help , but even so
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it was a disgrace.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Similarly between Baker Street and Finchley Road. It?s actively painful.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lew
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ahem :
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.mylondon.news/lifestyle/travel/london-underground-northern-line-tracks-210619
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That article talks about screeching rails on the Northern Line? the Jubilee
>>>>>>>>>> line seems to suffer from a different (but no less unpleasant) noise - a
>>>>>>>>>> loud and continuous roar in certain sections.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes, that seems to occur on newer tunnels, even if they're straight, for
>>>>>>>>> example, the Piccadilly line to T5. It sounds like some sort of resonance
>>>>>>>>> in smooth, modern concrete tunnels.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Seems logical. In old tunnels there were wooden sleepers and ballast to
>>>>>>>> absorb sound (even layers of dirt!). Modern concrete tunnels do not have
>>>>>>>> any natural absorbent features so the noises naturally generated by
>>>>>>>> steel on steel have nowhere to go.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Doesn?t explain Baker Street to Finchley Road? now I think about it, it
>>>>>>> seems to be the Northbound direction that I find particularly ghastly. I
>>>>>>> wonder if they have altered something in that tunnel over the years?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is some of that tunnel new? When the Jubilee and Bakerloo lines were
>>>>>> separated, didn't the Jubilee get new tunnels at the Baker St end?
>>>>>>
>>>>> One new platform. There were already two southbound platforms
>>>>> pre-Jubilee Line to prevent southbound Bakerloo trains queuing to
>>>>> unload at Baker Street.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, you're right.
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if there were any other major changes made to the tunnels as
>>>> part of the conversion to the Jubilee line?
>>>>
>>> Apart from the new bit of tunnel and the additional platform, none
>>> that I am aware of. My recollection is that the "noise" has only
>>> arisen in relatively more recent times.
>>>
>>
>> Perhaps they've replaced the track, and used a new design of mounting or
>> clip?
>>
> I would have gone for re-profiled (including rail replacement) or
> re-ground. It seems like a worse version of what you get going a very
> tight curve at low speed. Looking at it the other way, has the wheel
> profile of Jubilee Line trains been changed?
>

Wouldn’t re profiled wheels be noisy on more than just a couple of
sections?

GH

On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 23:23:44 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
<recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

>Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 21:12:59 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 14:29:01 +0100, Recliner
>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 27 Mar 2022 21:47:05 +0100, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Mar 2022 23:35:04 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lew 1 <email@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2022 23:43, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Lew 1 <email@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2022 17:54, Lew 1 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do LU do their rail grinding regularly or can this be cause by poor rail
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grinding? The noise was absolutely appalling today between london bridge and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> canada water to the point where I had to put fingers in my ears briefly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I realise the concrete track and close tunnel walls don't help , but even so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it was a disgrace.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Similarly between Baker Street and Finchley Road. It?s actively painful.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lew
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ahem :
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.mylondon.news/lifestyle/travel/london-underground-northern-line-tracks-210619
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That article talks about screeching rails on the Northern Line? the Jubilee
>>>>>>>>>>> line seems to suffer from a different (but no less unpleasant) noise - a
>>>>>>>>>>> loud and continuous roar in certain sections.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yes, that seems to occur on newer tunnels, even if they're straight, for
>>>>>>>>>> example, the Piccadilly line to T5. It sounds like some sort of resonance
>>>>>>>>>> in smooth, modern concrete tunnels.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Seems logical. In old tunnels there were wooden sleepers and ballast to
>>>>>>>>> absorb sound (even layers of dirt!). Modern concrete tunnels do not have
>>>>>>>>> any natural absorbent features so the noises naturally generated by
>>>>>>>>> steel on steel have nowhere to go.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Doesn?t explain Baker Street to Finchley Road? now I think about it, it
>>>>>>>> seems to be the Northbound direction that I find particularly ghastly. I
>>>>>>>> wonder if they have altered something in that tunnel over the years?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is some of that tunnel new? When the Jubilee and Bakerloo lines were
>>>>>>> separated, didn't the Jubilee get new tunnels at the Baker St end?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> One new platform. There were already two southbound platforms
>>>>>> pre-Jubilee Line to prevent southbound Bakerloo trains queuing to
>>>>>> unload at Baker Street.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, you're right.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder if there were any other major changes made to the tunnels as
>>>>> part of the conversion to the Jubilee line?
>>>>>
>>>> Apart from the new bit of tunnel and the additional platform, none
>>>> that I am aware of. My recollection is that the "noise" has only
>>>> arisen in relatively more recent times.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Perhaps they've replaced the track, and used a new design of mounting or
>>> clip?
>>>
>> I would have gone for re-profiled (including rail replacement) or
>> re-ground. It seems like a worse version of what you get going a very
>> tight curve at low speed. Looking at it the other way, has the wheel
>> profile of Jubilee Line trains been changed?
>>
>
>I really doubt that the wheel profile of the trains will have changed.
>Aren't the trains maintained by Alstom?
>
I was allowing for the two possible ways that the rail v. wheel
interface might have changed at that point. Apparently there are ar
least two profiles in use on LU:-
https://puretest.hud.ac.uk/files/17710748/Part_F_CM2018_Revised_Paper_07062019_Final.pdf
"The majority of LUL stocks operate using an LT5 wheel profile, whilst
a number of legacy fleets still operate with the former LT3 profile"

Google only seems to show up complaints about noise elsewhere on the
Jubilee Line (e.g. Canning Town and Kingsbury) and various articles on
the noise from the trains' electronics. This seems strange as the
stretch north of Baker Street is the only one where I have seen
passengers sticking their fingers in their ears to mitigate the noise.

Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 21:12:59 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 14:29:01 +0100, Recliner
>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 27 Mar 2022 21:47:05 +0100, Charles Ellson
>>>>> <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Mar 2022 23:35:04 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lew 1 <email@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2022 23:43, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Lew 1 <email@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2022 17:54, Lew 1 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do LU do their rail grinding regularly or can this be cause by poor rail
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grinding? The noise was absolutely appalling today between london bridge and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> canada water to the point where I had to put fingers in my ears briefly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I realise the concrete track and close tunnel walls don't help , but even so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it was a disgrace.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Similarly between Baker Street and Finchley Road. It?s actively painful.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lew
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ahem :
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.mylondon.news/lifestyle/travel/london-underground-northern-line-tracks-210619
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That article talks about screeching rails on the Northern Line? the Jubilee
>>>>>>>>>>> line seems to suffer from a different (but no less unpleasant) noise - a
>>>>>>>>>>> loud and continuous roar in certain sections.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yes, that seems to occur on newer tunnels, even if they're straight, for
>>>>>>>>>> example, the Piccadilly line to T5. It sounds like some sort of resonance
>>>>>>>>>> in smooth, modern concrete tunnels.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Seems logical. In old tunnels there were wooden sleepers and ballast to
>>>>>>>>> absorb sound (even layers of dirt!). Modern concrete tunnels do not have
>>>>>>>>> any natural absorbent features so the noises naturally generated by
>>>>>>>>> steel on steel have nowhere to go.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Doesn?t explain Baker Street to Finchley Road? now I think about it, it
>>>>>>>> seems to be the Northbound direction that I find particularly ghastly. I
>>>>>>>> wonder if they have altered something in that tunnel over the years?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is some of that tunnel new? When the Jubilee and Bakerloo lines were
>>>>>>> separated, didn't the Jubilee get new tunnels at the Baker St end?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> One new platform. There were already two southbound platforms
>>>>>> pre-Jubilee Line to prevent southbound Bakerloo trains queuing to
>>>>>> unload at Baker Street.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, you're right.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder if there were any other major changes made to the tunnels as
>>>>> part of the conversion to the Jubilee line?
>>>>>
>>>> Apart from the new bit of tunnel and the additional platform, none
>>>> that I am aware of. My recollection is that the "noise" has only
>>>> arisen in relatively more recent times.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Perhaps they've replaced the track, and used a new design of mounting or
>>> clip?
>>>
>> I would have gone for re-profiled (including rail replacement) or
>> re-ground. It seems like a worse version of what you get going a very
>> tight curve at low speed. Looking at it the other way, has the wheel
>> profile of Jubilee Line trains been changed?
>>
>
> Wouldn’t re profiled wheels be noisy on more than just a couple of
> sections?
>

Yes, good point. The noise must be due to some change in that section of
tunnel.

On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 23:47:41 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
<recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

>Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 21:12:59 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 14:29:01 +0100, Recliner
>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 27 Mar 2022 21:47:05 +0100, Charles Ellson
>>>>>> <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Mar 2022 23:35:04 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lew 1 <email@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2022 23:43, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Lew 1 <email@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/03/2022 17:54, Lew 1 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do LU do their rail grinding regularly or can this be cause by poor rail
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grinding? The noise was absolutely appalling today between london bridge and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> canada water to the point where I had to put fingers in my ears briefly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I realise the concrete track and close tunnel walls don't help , but even so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it was a disgrace.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Similarly between Baker Street and Finchley Road. It?s actively painful.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lew
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ahem :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.mylondon.news/lifestyle/travel/london-underground-northern-line-tracks-210619
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> That article talks about screeching rails on the Northern Line? the Jubilee
>>>>>>>>>>>> line seems to suffer from a different (but no less unpleasant) noise - a
>>>>>>>>>>>> loud and continuous roar in certain sections.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, that seems to occur on newer tunnels, even if they're straight, for
>>>>>>>>>>> example, the Piccadilly line to T5. It sounds like some sort of resonance
>>>>>>>>>>> in smooth, modern concrete tunnels.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Seems logical. In old tunnels there were wooden sleepers and ballast to
>>>>>>>>>> absorb sound (even layers of dirt!). Modern concrete tunnels do not have
>>>>>>>>>> any natural absorbent features so the noises naturally generated by
>>>>>>>>>> steel on steel have nowhere to go.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Doesn?t explain Baker Street to Finchley Road? now I think about it, it
>>>>>>>>> seems to be the Northbound direction that I find particularly ghastly. I
>>>>>>>>> wonder if they have altered something in that tunnel over the years?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is some of that tunnel new? When the Jubilee and Bakerloo lines were
>>>>>>>> separated, didn't the Jubilee get new tunnels at the Baker St end?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One new platform. There were already two southbound platforms
>>>>>>> pre-Jubilee Line to prevent southbound Bakerloo trains queuing to
>>>>>>> unload at Baker Street.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, you're right.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wonder if there were any other major changes made to the tunnels as
>>>>>> part of the conversion to the Jubilee line?
>>>>>>
>>>>> Apart from the new bit of tunnel and the additional platform, none
>>>>> that I am aware of. My recollection is that the "noise" has only
>>>>> arisen in relatively more recent times.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps they've replaced the track, and used a new design of mounting or
>>>> clip?
>>>>
>>> I would have gone for re-profiled (including rail replacement) or
>>> re-ground. It seems like a worse version of what you get going a very
>>> tight curve at low speed. Looking at it the other way, has the wheel
>>> profile of Jubilee Line trains been changed?
>>>
>>
>> Wouldn’t re profiled wheels be noisy on more than just a couple of
>> sections?
>>
>
>Yes, good point. The noise must be due to some change in that section of
>tunnel.
>
.... or that stretch of track is the only one with e.g. an unfortunate
combination of radius and wheel and/or rail profile of sufficient
length to produce the noticeable effect. Having found mention of
complaints from people neighbouring another curve near Kingsbury (but
not on a tube section) it looks like it could be the similar
combination of several factors at the two locations.