Film 4, More 4, Film 4 being off air on Freeview but are still showing
on Freesat....

Think teher was a fire that knocked out a computer server room that
deals with Film4, E4 and More4 programming.

Anyone know why its been fixed for Freesat but not for Freeview?

On 28/09/2021 10:08 pm, SH wrote:
> Film 4, More 4, Film 4 being off air on Freeview but are still showing
> on Freesat....
>
> Think teher was a fire that knocked out a computer server room that
> deals with Film4, E4 and More4 programming.
>
> Anyone know why its been fixed for Freesat but not for Freeview?

Was it EVER off on satellite?

On 28/09/2021 22:08, SH wrote:
> Film 4, More 4, Film 4 being off air on Freeview but are still showing
> on Freesat....
>
> Think teher was a fire that knocked out a computer server room that
> deals with Film4, E4 and More4 programming.
>
> Anyone know why its been fixed for Freesat but not for Freeview?

The problem was at Red Bee's playout centre in W12. BBC, C4, and C5 were
all affected.

The fire suppressant system in the server room fired off, it's not clear
whether there was actually a fire, but the percussive effect of the gas
discharge, coupled with possibly loose and extraneous objects becoming
airborne, (in what amounts to a mini indoor tornado) has damaged quite a
bit of active equipment

The BBC switched over to a mirror site in Salford. They seem to be
coping very well.

C4 and C5 have switched over to separate sites, C4 seem to be struggling.

Because multiple different feeds are fed to DTT, D-Sat and Cable, the
operators of those platforms (BBC, Arqiva, Sky, Virgin etc) also had to
repatch etc feeds.
At one point S4C (who don't use Red Bee) ended up being replaced by E4+1
on Freeview in Wales, because someone got in a muddle re-patching E4.

On 29/09/2021 07:55, Mark Carver wrote:
> On 28/09/2021 22:08, SH wrote:
>> Film 4, More 4, Film 4 being off air on Freeview but are still showing
>> on Freesat....
>>
>> Think teher was a fire that knocked out a computer server room that
>> deals with Film4, E4 and More4 programming.
>>
>> Anyone know why its been fixed for Freesat but not for Freeview?
>
> The problem was at Red Bee's playout centre in W12. BBC, C4, and C5 were
> all affected.
>
> The fire suppressant system in the server room fired off, it's not clear
> whether there was actually a fire, but the percussive effect of the gas
> discharge, coupled with possibly loose and extraneous objects becoming
> airborne, (in what amounts to a mini indoor tornado) has damaged quite a
> bit of active equipment
>
> The BBC switched over to a mirror site in Salford. They seem to be
> coping very well.
>
> C4 and C5 have switched over to separate sites, C4 seem to be struggling.
>
> Because multiple different feeds are fed to DTT, D-Sat and Cable, the
> operators of those platforms (BBC, Arqiva, Sky, Virgin etc) also had to
> repatch etc feeds.
> At one point S4C (who don't use Red Bee) ended up being replaced by E4+1
> on Freeview in Wales, because someone got in a muddle re-patching E4.

Ok, its clear to me that Film 4, More4, E4 are all now back on Freesat.

So why don;t the transmitters take a DSat Feed from 28.2E and feed it
into their mutiplexors to then allow E4, Fil 4 and More 4 to be
available on Freeview?

ISTR to recall thats what was done after the fire at Bilsdale, which
some feeds being taken from 27.5 West as well as from 28.2 East.

On 29/09/2021 08:32, SH wrote:
>
> Ok, its clear to me that Film 4, More4, E4 are all now back on Freesat.
>
> So why don;t the transmitters take a DSat Feed from 28.2E and feed it
> into their mutiplexors to then allow E4, Fil 4 and More 4 to be
> available on Freeview?

Because that would make DSat a single point of failure, but doing that
still has the same potential for cock ups, and you're double encoding etc
>
> ISTR to recall thats what was done after the fire at Bilsdale, which
> some feeds being taken from 27.5 West as well as from 28.2 East.

Yes, though that  took 72 hours to rig up (for Whitby, days more for the
other relays)

This current problem is really a playout/distribution one, not
transmission/emission

On 28/09/2021 22:50, JNugent wrote:
> On 28/09/2021 10:08 pm, SH wrote:
>> Film 4, More 4, Film 4 being off air on Freeview but are still showing
>> on Freesat....
>>
>> Think teher was a fire that knocked out a computer server room that
>> deals with Film4, E4 and More4 programming.
>>
>> Anyone know why its been fixed for Freesat but not for Freeview?
>
> Was it EVER off on satellite?
>
>

Film4 was "frozen" the other day on satellite and terrestrial. One
screen of the end credits for a film were permanently being broadcast.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 29/09/2021 08:42, Mark Carver wrote:
> On 29/09/2021 08:32, SH wrote:
>>
>> Ok, its clear to me that Film 4, More4, E4 are all now back on Freesat.
>>
>> So why don;t the transmitters take a DSat Feed from 28.2E and feed it
>> into their mutiplexors to then allow E4, Fil 4 and More 4 to be
>> available on Freeview?
>
> Because that would make DSat a single point of failure, but doing that
> still has the same potential for cock ups, and you're double encoding etc
>>
>> ISTR to recall thats what was done after the fire at Bilsdale, which
>> some feeds being taken from 27.5 West as well as from 28.2 East.
>
> Yes, though that  took 72 hours to rig up (for Whitby, days more for the
> other relays)
>
> This current problem is really a playout/distribution one, not
> transmission/emission
>
>

but they are managing to get F4, E4 and M4 to Freesat..... so it can;t
be much more to lash up a temporary feed from freesat into Freeview
while the playout/distribution issues are sorted out?

S.

On 29/09/2021 08:49, SH wrote:
> On 29/09/2021 08:42, Mark Carver wrote:
>> On 29/09/2021 08:32, SH wrote:
>>>
>>> Ok, its clear to me that Film 4, More4, E4 are all now back on Freesat.
>>>
>>> So why don;t the transmitters take a DSat Feed from 28.2E and feed
>>> it into their mutiplexors to then allow E4, Fil 4 and More 4 to be
>>> available on Freeview?
>>
>> Because that would make DSat a single point of failure, but doing
>> that still has the same potential for cock ups, and you're double
>> encoding etc
>>>
>>> ISTR to recall thats what was done after the fire at Bilsdale, which
>>> some feeds being taken from 27.5 West as well as from 28.2 East.
>>
>> Yes, though that  took 72 hours to rig up (for Whitby, days more for
>> the other relays)
>>
>> This current problem is really a playout/distribution one, not
>> transmission/emission
>>
>>
>
>
> but they are managing to get F4, E4 and M4 to Freesat..... so it can;t
> be much more to lash up a temporary feed from freesat into Freeview
> while the playout/distribution issues are sorted out?
>
Which means getting a feed sorted, needing to procure extra equipment
etc. F4/E4 etc are just throw away junk channels, they are struggling
just keeping C4 on the air at present, E4/F4/M4 are not high on the
priority list. No one has ever expected to be in DR mode for longer than
24 hours. It's now been 5 days.
I don't think you appreciate the disruption that is still going on for
basically every broadcaster with the exception of ITV !

This and Bilsdale has been quite a wake up call

I thought it was mostly now working again on freeview.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"SH" <i.love@spam.com> wrote in message news:sj008d$vui$1@dont-email.me...
> Film 4, More 4, Film 4 being off air on Freeview but are still showing on
> Freesat....
>
> Think teher was a fire that knocked out a computer server room that deals
> with Film4, E4 and More4 programming.
>
> Anyone know why its been fixed for Freesat but not for Freeview?

Not really surprised about these problems, Maybe the makers of the
satellites should be in charge of the gear used in distribution, or heaven
forbid there is a backup system in case it might be needed? If we had a
serious disaster somewhere vital then everything will stop at the moment.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Mark Carver" <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:irikqjFknvmU1@mid.individual.net...
> On 29/09/2021 08:49, SH wrote:
>> On 29/09/2021 08:42, Mark Carver wrote:
>>> On 29/09/2021 08:32, SH wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Ok, its clear to me that Film 4, More4, E4 are all now back on Freesat.
>>>>
>>>> So why don;t the transmitters take a DSat Feed from 28.2E and feed it
>>>> into their mutiplexors to then allow E4, Fil 4 and More 4 to be
>>>> available on Freeview?
>>>
>>> Because that would make DSat a single point of failure, but doing that
>>> still has the same potential for cock ups, and you're double encoding
>>> etc
>>>>
>>>> ISTR to recall thats what was done after the fire at Bilsdale, which
>>>> some feeds being taken from 27.5 West as well as from 28.2 East.
>>>
>>> Yes, though that took 72 hours to rig up (for Whitby, days more for the
>>> other relays)
>>>
>>> This current problem is really a playout/distribution one, not
>>> transmission/emission
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> but they are managing to get F4, E4 and M4 to Freesat..... so it can;t be
>> much more to lash up a temporary feed from freesat into Freeview while
>> the playout/distribution issues are sorted out?
>>
> Which means getting a feed sorted, needing to procure extra equipment etc.
> F4/E4 etc are just throw away junk channels, they are struggling just
> keeping C4 on the air at present, E4/F4/M4 are not high on the priority
> list. No one has ever expected to be in DR mode for longer than 24 hours.
> It's now been 5 days.
> I don't think you appreciate the disruption that is still going on for
> basically every broadcaster with the exception of ITV !
>
> This and Bilsdale has been quite a wake up call

On 29/09/2021 09:01, Mark Carver wrote:
> Which means getting a feed sorted, needing to procure extra equipment
> etc. F4/E4 etc are just throw away junk channels, they are struggling
> just keeping C4 on the air at present, E4/F4/M4 are not high on the
> priority list. No one has ever expected to be in DR mode for longer than
> 24 hours. It's now been 5 days.
> I don't think you appreciate the disruption that is still going on for
> basically every broadcaster with the exception of ITV !

I was going to ask about ITV, heard little about them. Have they been
affected much?

Were the adverts affected, it was always said they are more important
the programmes!

On 29/09/2021 10:05, MB wrote:
> On 29/09/2021 09:01, Mark Carver wrote:
>> Which means getting a feed sorted, needing to procure extra equipment
>> etc. F4/E4 etc are just throw away junk channels, they are struggling
>> just keeping C4 on the air at present, E4/F4/M4 are not high on the
>> priority list. No one has ever expected to be in DR mode for longer than
>> 24 hours. It's now been 5 days.
>> I don't think you appreciate the disruption that is still going on for
>> basically every broadcaster with the exception of ITV !
>
> I was going to ask about ITV, heard little about them. Have they been
> affected much?

Not at all. They use Ericsson at Chiswick and Leeds, it's the Red Bee
White City site that's suffered the problem. (Although Ericsson own Red
Bee anyway)
>
> Were the adverts affected, it was always said they are more important
> the programmes!

Yes. Someone told me a couple of BT Sports channels have had no adverts
since Saturday night.

On 29/09/2021 08:46 am, alan_m wrote:
> On 28/09/2021 22:50, JNugent wrote:
>> On 28/09/2021 10:08 pm, SH wrote:
>>> Film 4, More 4, Film 4 being off air on Freeview but are still
>>> showing on Freesat....
>>>
>>> Think teher was a fire that knocked out a computer server room that
>>> deals with Film4, E4 and More4 programming.
>>>
>>> Anyone know why its been fixed for Freesat but not for Freeview?
>>
>> Was it EVER off on satellite?
>>
>>
>
> Film4 was "frozen" the other day on satellite and terrestrial. One
> screen of the end credits for a film were permanently being broadcast.

The reason I asked was that BBC digital text news mentioned that some
channels were off air right then. But I checked and they were not
off-air on Sky Digital.

"Mark Carver" <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:irigvfFk1gcU1@mid.individual.net...
> The fire suppressant system in the server room fired off, it's not clear
> whether there was actually a fire, but the percussive effect of the gas
> discharge, coupled with possibly loose and extraneous objects becoming
> airborne, (in what amounts to a mini indoor tornado) has damaged quite a
> bit of active equipment

Quite apart from the fact that the (Halon?) gas would suffocate you in the
same way that it's intended to "suffocate" a fire, wouldn't want to be close
to the gas discharge :-( I'd not realised that it was as "explosive" as
that. How long after a discharge is it safe to enter the room, assuming
there's some sort of extractor fan?

I'd always thought that Halon fire-suppressing systems were only a hazard
because of the lack of oxygen and maybe the fact that Halon is poisonous.
But there's more to it than that.

On 29/09/2021 17:37, NY wrote:
> "Mark Carver" <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:irigvfFk1gcU1@mid.individual.net...
>> The fire suppressant system in the server room fired off, it's not
>> clear whether there was actually a fire, but the percussive effect of
>> the gas discharge, coupled with possibly loose and extraneous objects
>> becoming airborne, (in what amounts to a mini indoor tornado) has
>> damaged quite a bit of active equipment
>
> Quite apart from the fact that the (Halon?) gas would suffocate you in
> the same way that it's intended to "suffocate" a fire, wouldn't want to
> be close to the gas discharge :-(  I'd not realised that it was as
> "explosive" as that. How long after a discharge is it safe to enter the
> room, assuming there's some sort of extractor fan?
>
> I'd always thought that Halon fire-suppressing systems were only a
> hazard because of the lack of oxygen and maybe the fact that Halon is
> poisonous. But there's more to it than that.

I thought halons were banned under the montreal protocol or is there an
exemption for IT equipment?

On 29/09/2021 17:37, NY wrote:
> "Mark Carver" <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:irigvfFk1gcU1@mid.individual.net...
>> The fire suppressant system in the server room fired off, it's not
>> clear whether there was actually a fire, but the percussive effect of
>> the gas discharge, coupled with possibly loose and extraneous objects
>> becoming airborne, (in what amounts to a mini indoor tornado) has
>> damaged quite a bit of active equipment
>
> Quite apart from the fact that the (Halon?) gas would suffocate you in
> the same way that it's intended to "suffocate" a fire, wouldn't want to
> be close to the gas discharge :-(  I'd not realised that it was as
> "explosive" as that. How long after a discharge is it safe to enter the
> room, assuming there's some sort of extractor fan?
>
> I'd always thought that Halon fire-suppressing systems were only a
> hazard because of the lack of oxygen and maybe the fact that Halon is
> poisonous. But there's more to it than that.

I read in the S Times that the fire suppression sucks the oxygen out of
the room presumably replacing it with CO2?

--
--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com

On 29/09/2021 17:37, NY wrote:
> "Mark Carver" <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:irigvfFk1gcU1@mid.individual.net...
>> The fire suppressant system in the server room fired off, it's not
>> clear whether there was actually a fire, but the percussive effect of
>> the gas discharge, coupled with possibly loose and extraneous objects
>> becoming airborne, (in what amounts to a mini indoor tornado) has
>> damaged quite a bit of active equipment
>
> Quite apart from the fact that the (Halon?) gas would suffocate you in
> the same way that it's intended to "suffocate" a fire, wouldn't want
> to be close to the gas discharge :-(  I'd not realised that it was as
> "explosive" as that. How long after a discharge is it safe to enter
> the room, assuming there's some sort of extractor fan?
>
> I'd always thought that Halon fire-suppressing systems were only a
> hazard because of the lack of oxygen and maybe the fact that Halon is
> poisonous. But there's more to it than that.

I was using 'Halon' in the same spirit as 'Selotape' and 'Hoover'.

The stuff they use today isn't dangerous to breathe, but you don't want
to be in there when it happens, even if there are no flying objects (and
in a properly kept room there shouldn't be any 'junk' left lying around)
, but the sudden change of 'air' pressure can bugger up your ear drums.

On 28/09/2021 22:08, SH wrote:
> Film 4, More 4, Film 4 being off air on Freeview but are still showing
> on Freesat....
>
> Think teher was a fire that knocked out a computer server room that
> deals with Film4, E4 and More4 programming.
>
> Anyone know why its been fixed for Freesat but not for Freeview?

4Music isn't available anywhere AFAICS.

--
Brian Gregory (in England).

On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 17:37:49 +0100, NY wrote:

> "Mark Carver" <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:irigvfFk1gcU1@mid.individual.net...
>> The fire suppressant system in the server room fired off, it's not
>> clear whether there was actually a fire, but the percussive effect of
>> the gas discharge, coupled with possibly loose and extraneous objects
>> becoming airborne, (in what amounts to a mini indoor tornado) has
>> damaged quite a bit of active equipment
>
> Quite apart from the fact that the (Halon?) gas would suffocate you in
> the same way that it's intended to "suffocate" a fire, wouldn't want to
> be close to the gas discharge :-( I'd not realised that it was as
> "explosive" as that. How long after a discharge is it safe to enter the
> room, assuming there's some sort of extractor fan?
>
> I'd always thought that Halon fire-suppressing systems were only a
> hazard because of the lack of oxygen and maybe the fact that Halon is
> poisonous. But there's more to it than that.

Why is Halon banned?
While Halon is considered a clean agent by The National Fire Protection
Association because it's electrically non-conducting and does not leave a
residue, Halon has an extremely high potential for ozone depletion and
contributes to global warming potential

On 01/10/2021 05:15, Sysadmin wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 17:37:49 +0100, NY wrote:
>
>> "Mark Carver" <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:irigvfFk1gcU1@mid.individual.net...
>>> The fire suppressant system in the server room fired off, it's not
>>> clear whether there was actually a fire, but the percussive effect of
>>> the gas discharge, coupled with possibly loose and extraneous objects
>>> becoming airborne, (in what amounts to a mini indoor tornado) has
>>> damaged quite a bit of active equipment
>>
>> Quite apart from the fact that the (Halon?) gas would suffocate you in
>> the same way that it's intended to "suffocate" a fire, wouldn't want to
>> be close to the gas discharge :-( I'd not realised that it was as
>> "explosive" as that. How long after a discharge is it safe to enter the
>> room, assuming there's some sort of extractor fan?
>>
>> I'd always thought that Halon fire-suppressing systems were only a
>> hazard because of the lack of oxygen and maybe the fact that Halon is
>> poisonous. But there's more to it than that.
>
> Why is Halon banned?
> While Halon is considered a clean agent by The National Fire Protection
> Association because it's electrically non-conducting and does not leave a
> residue, Halon has an extremely high potential for ozone depletion and
> contributes to global warming potential
>

Halons are also known as CFC's Chloro - Fluoro carbons.

They were heavily used in refrigeration, air conditioning, fire
suppression systems and as an aerosol can propellant.

It used to even be used in Tippex and Snopake until the water based
versions versions came along.

Now its R134a which has now been replaced with R1234yf

https://www.climalife.co.uk/r134a

https://www.climalife.co.uk/r1234yf

On 01/10/2021 08:40, SH wrote:
> Halons are also known as CFC's Chloro - Fluoro carbons.
>
> They were heavily used in refrigeration, air conditioning, fire
> suppression systems and as an aerosol can propellant.
>
> It used to even be used in Tippex and Snopake until the water based
> versions versions came along.
>
> Now its R134a  which has now been replaced with R1234yf
>
> https://www.climalife.co.uk/r134a
>
>
> https://www.climalife.co.uk/r1234yf

Those pages discuss r134a and r1234yf being used for refrigeration.
The penultimate paragraph on the latter page says "R1234yf has an ASHRAE
class A2L which means it’s mildly flammable." so I doubt it's used for
fire suppression.

Anyone know what gets used for fire suppression nowadays?

--
Brian Gregory (in England).

On 02/10/2021 01:05, Brian Gregory wrote:
>
> Anyone know what gets used for fire suppression nowadays?

I should know this, because I worked for a fire extinguisher servicing
firm for a year, but it was long time ago ...

General purpose extinguishers contain a mixture of water and another
substance such that, when the pressure is released, a fire retardant
foam is ejected, and are red in colour.

Anything electrical on fire, use CO2 extinguishers, which are black.

I can't remember what the use case for Halon extinguishers was, but do
remember they are, or rather were, green - were because, as others
have mentioned, they were to be phased out by the Montreal Protocol to
protect the ozone layer, but that was after my time at the firm.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On 02/10/2021 01:41, Java Jive wrote:
> On 02/10/2021 01:05, Brian Gregory wrote:
>>
>> Anyone know what gets used for fire suppression nowadays?
>
> I should know this, because I worked for a fire extinguisher servicing
> firm for a year, but it was long time ago ...

Here you go, JJ - become a Google expert like me!
<https://surreyfire.co.uk/fire-extinguisher-colours/>

Looks like it's dry powder or CO2 for electrical/computer fires if a
hand extinguisher is used, but for what's used for whole room
suppression see below. BTW, the link on the page above to "Wet chemical"
ends at a 404. There is a working link from
<https://surreyfire.co.uk/types-of-fire-extinguisher/> (which is similar
to the first link with different emphases). I expected it to be an
organic compound, but it appears to be a potassium salt water-based product.

One website for room fire suppression at
<https://www.safelincs.co.uk/redetec-novec1230-automatic-fire-suppression-unit/?q=Novec+1230>
turns up with "Novel 1230" as the fire suppressant. I had to go to the
MSDS to see what that was, and it is listed as:
1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 4, 5, 5, 5 – Nonafluoro-4-(Trifluoromethyl)-3-Pentanone
(misspelt in both the MSDS and Data Sheet in different ways!).

There's another halocarbon mentioned elsewhere (HCFC-123, R-123 -
1,1-Dichloro-2,2,2,-Trifluoroethane), and I suspect there are others.

--

Jeff

In article <sj89rf$hkk$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
> On 02/10/2021 01:05, Brian Gregory wrote:
> >
> > Anyone know what gets used for fire suppression nowadays?

> I should know this, because I worked for a fire extinguisher servicing
> firm for a year, but it was long time ago ...

> General purpose extinguishers contain a mixture of water and another
> substance such that, when the pressure is released, a fire retardant
> foam is ejected, and are red in colour.

> Anything electrical on fire, use CO2 extinguishers, which are black.

All fire extinguishers are RED - an EU requirement. And, yes, I remeber
black co2 ones.

> I can't remember what the use case for Halon extinguishers was, but do
> remember they are, or rather were, green - were because, as others
> have mentioned, they were to be phased out by the Montreal Protocol to
> protect the ozone layer, but that was after my time at the firm.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 02/10/2021 08:44, charles wrote:

> All fire extinguishers are RED - an EU requirement. And, yes, I remember
> black co2 ones.

I think they are *mostly* red. I remember seeing some with a black top
(CO2) and one with a cream top (Foam) as well as the ones all red (Water).

Ah yes - I have found the helpful guide:
https://tinyurl.com/2ybehw9z

Jim