Watching Holby City and Silent Witness last night with subtitles it was
noticeable that they were at least a sentence late and sometimes missed
words altogether. Is this something to do with relocating the playouts?

--
TOJ

On 29/09/2021 12:54, The Other John wrote:
> Watching Holby City and Silent Witness last night with subtitles it was
> noticeable that they were at least a sentence late and sometimes missed
> words altogether. Is this something to do with relocating the playouts?
>
Very likely. Red Bee do the Beeb's subtitles

On 29/09/2021 12:54, The Other John wrote:
> Watching Holby City and Silent Witness last night with subtitles it was
> noticeable that they were at least a sentence late and sometimes missed
> words altogether. Is this something to do with relocating the playouts?
>
I find the same when watching things on iPlayer Stopping and restarting
often improves the sync but I can't explain why.

On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 15:00:05 +0100, Mark Carver
<mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On 29/09/2021 12:54, The Other John wrote:
>> Watching Holby City and Silent Witness last night with subtitles it was
>> noticeable that they were at least a sentence late and sometimes missed
>> words altogether. Is this something to do with relocating the playouts?
>>
>Very likely. Red Bee do the Beeb's subtitles

I thought the subtitles were prepared in advance for recorded
programmes and computer generated in real time for live programmes.

On 29/09/2021 12:54 pm, The Other John wrote:

> Watching Holby City and Silent Witness last night with subtitles it was
> noticeable that they were at least a sentence late and sometimes missed
> words altogether. Is this something to do with relocating the playouts?

It's my experience that subtitles rarely contain all the words spoken on
the soundtrack. Sometimes a sentence is a paraphrase of what has been said.

On 29/09/2021 17:04, Scott wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 15:00:05 +0100, Mark Carver
> <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 29/09/2021 12:54, The Other John wrote:
>>> Watching Holby City and Silent Witness last night with subtitles it was
>>> noticeable that they were at least a sentence late and sometimes missed
>>> words altogether. Is this something to do with relocating the playouts?
>>>
>> Very likely. Red Bee do the Beeb's subtitles
> I thought the subtitles were prepared in advance for recorded
> programmes and computer generated in real time for live programmes.
They are, but either way they still need to navigate through the
tortuous transmission chain un-scathed

In article <irji49Fq66lU1@mid.individual.net>, JNugent
<jennings&co@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> On 29/09/2021 12:54 pm, The Other John wrote:

> > Watching Holby City and Silent Witness last night with subtitles it was
> > noticeable that they were at least a sentence late and sometimes missed
> > words altogether. Is this something to do with relocating the playouts?

> It's my experience that subtitles rarely contain all the words spoken on
> the soundtrack. Sometimes a sentence is a paraphrase of what has been
> said.

I remember seeing a Britsh fim in Geneva, which was subtited in both French
& German. At one point one subtitle read " Scotch & soda" the other
"Whisky & soda"

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 17:21:29 +0100, JNugent wrote:

> It's my experience that subtitles rarely contain all the words spoken on
> the soundtrack. Sometimes a sentence is a paraphrase of what has been
> said.

In dramas I usually find they are complete and in sync or slightly ahead
of the spoken words.

--
TOJ

I'd have thought on recorded programs that they were part of the recorded
signal like AD so I cannot see how that could happen unless it was recorded
that way.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
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briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"The Other John" <nomail@here.org> wrote in message
news:sj1k6c$prd$1@dont-email.me...
> Watching Holby City and Silent Witness last night with subtitles it was
> noticeable that they were at least a sentence late and sometimes missed
> words altogether. Is this something to do with relocating the playouts?
>
> --
> TOJ

Surely not done live as that would mean getting them done every time they
repeated the programme.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Mark Carver" <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:irj9r5Fol0hU1@mid.individual.net...
> On 29/09/2021 12:54, The Other John wrote:
>> Watching Holby City and Silent Witness last night with subtitles it was
>> noticeable that they were at least a sentence late and sometimes missed
>> words altogether. Is this something to do with relocating the playouts?
>>
> Very likely. Red Bee do the Beeb's subtitles

On 29/09/2021 12:54, The Other John wrote:
> Watching Holby City and Silent Witness last night with subtitles it was
> noticeable that they were at least a sentence late and sometimes missed
> words altogether. Is this something to do with relocating the playouts?
>
I've seen it suggested  pre recorded BBC programmes are being subtitled
live at present.

If so, then my guess is the BBC's standby site at Salford that's being
used at present, doesn't have the pre prepared subtitle files available
(They'll be 'trapped' in the dead servers in London)

On 30/09/2021 14:24, Mark Carver wrote:
> On 29/09/2021 12:54, The Other John wrote:
>> Watching Holby City and Silent Witness last night with subtitles it was
>> noticeable that they were at least a sentence late and sometimes missed
>> words altogether.  Is this something to do with relocating the playouts?
>>
> I've seen it suggested  pre recorded BBC programmes are being subtitled
> live at present.
>
> If so, then my guess is the BBC's standby site at Salford that's being
> used at present, doesn't have the pre prepared subtitle files available
> (They'll be 'trapped' in the dead servers in London)

wouldn't off-site backups of programmes but not the matching
pre-prepared subtitles be a bit, err, umm, amateurish?

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 30/09/2021 14:39, Robin wrote:
> On 30/09/2021 14:24, Mark Carver wrote:
>> On 29/09/2021 12:54, The Other John wrote:
>>> Watching Holby City and Silent Witness last night with subtitles it was
>>> noticeable that they were at least a sentence late and sometimes missed
>>> words altogether.  Is this something to do with relocating the
>>> playouts?
>>>
>> I've seen it suggested  pre recorded BBC programmes are being
>> subtitled live at present.
>>
>> If so, then my guess is the BBC's standby site at Salford that's
>> being used at present, doesn't have the pre prepared subtitle files
>> available (They'll be 'trapped' in the dead servers in London)
>
> wouldn't off-site backups of programmes but not the matching
> pre-prepared subtitles be a bit, err, umm, amateurish?
>
You might say that, I couldn't possibly comment !

In message <irls4bF926qU2@mid.individual.net>, Mark Carver
<mark.carver@invalid.invalid> writes
>On 29/09/2021 12:54, The Other John wrote:
>> Watching Holby City and Silent Witness last night with subtitles it was
>> noticeable that they were at least a sentence late and sometimes missed
>> words altogether. Is this something to do with relocating the playouts?
>>
>I've seen it suggested  pre recorded BBC programmes are being subtitled
>live at present.
>
>If so, then my guess is the BBC's standby site at Salford that's being
>used at present, doesn't have the pre prepared subtitle files available
>(They'll be 'trapped' in the dead servers in London)

I've certainly seen some recorded programmes where the quality and
accuracy of the subtitles has been very poor indeed. I can only assume
that nobody cared.
--
Ian

On 30/09/2021 16:07, Ian Jackson wrote:
> I've certainly seen some recorded programmes where the quality and
> accuracy of the subtitles has been very poor indeed. I can only assume
> that nobody cared.
> --

Didn't someone suggest that it was never expected that the standby site
would be used for any length of time so perhaps thought subtitles were a
lower priority.

Mark Carver wrote:

>I've seen it suggested  pre recorded BBC programmes are being subtitled
>live at present.
>
>If so, then my guess is the BBC's standby site at Salford that's being
>used at present, doesn't have the pre prepared subtitle files available
>(They'll be 'trapped' in the dead servers in London)

I've just watched this week's "Saving Lives at Sea", and it was
clearly live captioning, including at least one correction.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
chris@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.

"Mark Carver" <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:irlt24F98utU3@mid.individual.net...
> On 30/09/2021 14:39, Robin wrote:
>> On 30/09/2021 14:24, Mark Carver wrote:
>>> On 29/09/2021 12:54, The Other John wrote:
>>>> Watching Holby City and Silent Witness last night with subtitles it was
>>>> noticeable that they were at least a sentence late and sometimes missed
>>>> words altogether. Is this something to do with relocating the
>>>> playouts?
>>>>
>>> I've seen it suggested pre recorded BBC programmes are being subtitled
>>> live at present.
>>>
>>> If so, then my guess is the BBC's standby site at Salford that's being
>>> used at present, doesn't have the pre prepared subtitle files available
>>> (They'll be 'trapped' in the dead servers in London)
>>
>> wouldn't off-site backups of programmes but not the matching pre-prepared
>> subtitles be a bit, err, umm, amateurish?
>>
> You might say that, I couldn't possibly comment !

Oh, Michael Dobbs. What does it feel like to invent a phrase such as
Urquhart's Avoidance which has now entered the English language?

"Chris J Dixon" <chris@cdixon.me.uk> wrote in message
news:4v3clgplbj46757dmsmi2mmh1pqs5ck34b@4ax.com...
> Mark Carver wrote:
>
>>I've seen it suggested pre recorded BBC programmes are being subtitled
>>live at present.
>>
>>If so, then my guess is the BBC's standby site at Salford that's being
>>used at present, doesn't have the pre prepared subtitle files available
>>(They'll be 'trapped' in the dead servers in London)
>
> I've just watched this week's "Saving Lives at Sea", and it was
> clearly live captioning, including at least one correction.

Going off at a tangent slightly, but I've always wondered? How large are the
playout files, compared with the roughly 1-3 GB/hour that is received on
Freeview after it has been compressed to within an inch of its life? How
long does it take to replicate the files from the master server to the
backup server? It took me about 24 hours to make a backup of the 3 TB of
data on my PC, when the old drive developed the click-of-death and I had to
buy a new one and then make an initial full backup before the later
incremental ones. And that was over a USB2 connection which achieved about
25 MB/sec (including write speed of disk). I wonder what speed the (fibre?)
link between master and backup sites is. As a colleague used to say, "Never
underestimate the baud rate of an artic full of mag tapes".

"Chris J Dixon" <chris@cdixon.me.uk> wrote in message
news:4v3clgplbj46757dmsmi2mmh1pqs5ck34b@4ax.com...
> Mark Carver wrote:
>
>>I've seen it suggested pre recorded BBC programmes are being subtitled
>>live at present.
>>
>>If so, then my guess is the BBC's standby site at Salford that's being
>>used at present, doesn't have the pre prepared subtitle files available
>>(They'll be 'trapped' in the dead servers in London)
>
> I've just watched this week's "Saving Lives at Sea", and it was
> clearly live captioning, including at least one correction.

Thinking of problems caused by having to use the backup copy of a playout
file, I was amused that this chav-TV programme
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58756870 accidentally broadcast the previous
night's episode again instead of the Big Finale episode. Whoops.

On 30/09/2021 21:20, NY wrote:

> As a colleague used to say, "Never
> underestimate the baud rate of an artic full of mag tapes".
>
I was once asked to drive 170 miles with 2 reels of mag tapes in my car
as the only practical way of getting that much data to its destination
in time to meet a processing deadline.

Of course, having delivered it, I had to drive the 170 miles back to
where I normally worked. That was a tiring day!

Jim

On 30/09/2021 21:20, NY wrote:
> "Chris J Dixon" <chris@cdixon.me.uk> wrote in message
> news:4v3clgplbj46757dmsmi2mmh1pqs5ck34b@4ax.com...
>> Mark Carver wrote:
>>
>>> I've seen it suggested  pre recorded BBC programmes are being subtitled
>>> live at present.
>>>
>>> If so, then my guess is the BBC's standby site at Salford that's being
>>> used at present, doesn't have the pre prepared subtitle files available
>>> (They'll be 'trapped' in the dead servers in London)
>>
>> I've just watched this week's "Saving Lives at Sea", and it was
>> clearly live captioning, including at least one correction.
>
> Going off at a tangent slightly, but I've always wondered? How large
> are the playout files, compared with the roughly 1-3 GB/hour that is
> received on Freeview after it has been compressed to within an inch of
> its life?

They are AS-11 files, Rule of thumb I think is about 1GB per minute. As
for transferring time etc, well, do the maths

On 01/10/2021 08:07, Mark Carver wrote:
> On 30/09/2021 21:20, NY wrote:
>> "Chris J Dixon" <chris@cdixon.me.uk> wrote in message
>> news:4v3clgplbj46757dmsmi2mmh1pqs5ck34b@4ax.com...
>>> Mark Carver wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've seen it suggested  pre recorded BBC programmes are being
>>>> subtitled
>>>> live at present.
>>>>
>>>> If so, then my guess is the BBC's standby site at Salford that's being
>>>> used at present, doesn't have the pre prepared subtitle files
>>>> available
>>>> (They'll be 'trapped' in the dead servers in London)
>>>
>>> I've just watched this week's "Saving Lives at Sea", and it was
>>> clearly live captioning, including at least one correction.
>>
>> Going off at a tangent slightly, but I've always wondered? How large
>> are the playout files, compared with the roughly 1-3 GB/hour that is
>> received on Freeview after it has been compressed to within an inch
>> of its life?
>
> They are AS-11 files, Rule of thumb I think is about 1GB per minute.
> As for transferring time etc, well, do the maths

Forgot to add some bedtime reading
https://www.bbc.co.uk/delivery/technical-requirements

On 30/09/2021 21:20, NY wrote:
> And that was over a USB2 connection which achieved about
> 25 MB/sec (including write speed of disk). I wonder what speed the (fibre?)
> link between master and backup sites is. As a colleague used to say, "Never
> underestimate the baud rate of an artic full of mag tapes".

I suspect it is a lot faster than that, a friend in the US has access to
PB/s (or perhaps EB/s) circuits in his office. He once tried backing up
all his image files to the Cloud from home and it took weeks. Later he
did it from his office and it took minutes.

Indy Jess John wrote:

>On 30/09/2021 21:20, NY wrote:
>
>> As a colleague used to say, "Never
>> underestimate the baud rate of an artic full of mag tapes".
>>
>I was once asked to drive 170 miles with 2 reels of mag tapes in my car
>as the only practical way of getting that much data to its destination
>in time to meet a processing deadline.
>
>Of course, having delivered it, I had to drive the 170 miles back to
>where I normally worked. That was a tiring day!

About 20 years ago, a new Bombardier train was undertaking test
running in the London area. At one point a courier was employed
to drive to Derby every day with a CD full of test results for
analysis.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
chris@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.

On 30/09/2021 23:28, Indy Jess John wrote:
> On 30/09/2021 21:20, NY wrote:
>
>> As a colleague used to say, "Never
>> underestimate the baud rate of an artic full of mag tapes".
>>
> I was once asked to drive 170 miles with 2 reels of mag tapes in my car
> as the only practical way of getting that much data to its destination
> in time to meet a processing deadline.
>
> Of course, having delivered it, I had to drive the 170 miles back to
> where I normally worked.  That was a tiring day!
>
> Jim
>

Thats called Sneakernet, far faster than Ethernet at 1 GB/s :-)