On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 18:45:08 +0000, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
> Ground frames elsewhere will usually be controlling entrance to a siding
> or yard, and even under colour-light signalling, will require attendance
> of someone on site to operate the ground frame (which may be either a
> small lever frame, or a push-button panel). They may or may not have an
> associated crossover, depending on location, which may or may not have
> FPLs (eg a push button GF controlling clamp-lock points will have FPLs
> by default). Whenever they're required to be used by a train, a member
> of staff will be present to operate, either NR or suitably-trained FOC
> groundstaff.

I think there are some cases where ground frames are operated by the
train crew - for example the Heysham branch (last time I was there,
several years ago) and IIRC Coombe Junction on the Looe line. I don't
know if the crew have any additional training to work these.

Mike

Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 18:45:08 +0000, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>> Ground frames elsewhere will usually be controlling entrance to a siding
>> or yard, and even under colour-light signalling, will require attendance
>> of someone on site to operate the ground frame (which may be either a
>> small lever frame, or a push-button panel). They may or may not have an
>> associated crossover, depending on location, which may or may not have
>> FPLs (eg a push button GF controlling clamp-lock points will have FPLs
>> by default). Whenever they're required to be used by a train, a member
>> of staff will be present to operate, either NR or suitably-trained FOC
>> groundstaff.
>
> I think there are some cases where ground frames are operated by the
> train crew - for example the Heysham branch (last time I was there,
> several years ago) and IIRC Coombe Junction on the Looe line. I don't
> know if the crew have any additional training to work these.
>
>

I meant to add a paragraph about those and then forgot!

I think you can add Bourne End to the list.

Access to two sidings in Worcester where IETs stable, is controlled by
ground frame for some unknown reason, and the GF is operated by gWr train
managers (ie guards).

Specific training will be given in each instance.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

"Anna Noyd-Dryver" <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote in message
news:t23tkb$fj1$1@dont-email.me...
>> I think there are some cases where ground frames are operated by the
>> train crew - for example the Heysham branch (last time I was there,
>> several years ago) and IIRC Coombe Junction on the Looe line. I don't
>> know if the crew have any additional training to work these.

> I think you can add Bourne End to the list.

I never thought that for a regular service so close to the GWR main line,
there would be a ground frame that wasn't under the control of the
signaller. I tend to think of ground frames being used on very sparsely-used
rural lines - like the two routes out of the V-shaped junction at Battersby
on the Middlesbrough-Whitby line - or on sidings.

NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
> "Anna Noyd-Dryver" <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote in message
> news:t23tkb$fj1$1@dont-email.me...
>>> I think there are some cases where ground frames are operated by the
>>> train crew - for example the Heysham branch (last time I was there,
>>> several years ago) and IIRC Coombe Junction on the Looe line. I don't
>>> know if the crew have any additional training to work these.
>
>> I think you can add Bourne End to the list.
>
> I never thought that for a regular service so close to the GWR main line,
> there would be a ground frame that wasn't under the control of the
> signaller. I tend to think of ground frames being used on very sparsely-used
> rural lines - like the two routes out of the V-shaped junction at Battersby
> on the Middlesbrough-Whitby line - or on sidings.
>
>

<https://twitter.com/signaloftheday/status/1310142646313197568?s=21>

And follow-ups:
<https://twitter.com/driverbod125/status/1310164882608852993?s=21>

<quote>
Facebook brings an explanation of this interesting signal:
BE1 is a points indicator, not a signal. the Yellow + Route Indication does
not convey a movement authority - that is either by the possession of the
Train Staff or the Token

The Train Staff is for the ‘B’ route towards Marlow, the Token is for the
‘M’ route towards Maidenhead.

The yellow + route indication only advises that the points have correctly
operated and are detected for the destination shown.

The signalling is traincrew operated: points controlled from a ground
switch panel, token obtained from a no-signaller instrument, train staff
obtained from a key release instrument.

As to release of the token/staff:-

TVSC Slough WS releases the token when requested by the guard. The staff is
held in the ground frame, and is released when the points are locked
towards Marlow, you then can’t unlock them until you put the staff back in
the GF.

Thanks to James Nelhams and Simon Lowe for the explanations!
</quote>