Yep Brook at 3 which could break him, or not, and Jonny gets promoted to 5
after his 'error' in the last. Ali, Woakes & Wood all in: I think Ali is mistake.
Expecting runs to flow for Oz. Marsh makes a surprise appearance as Green
feeling sore, and boland back for Hazel.

Oz inserted again: i wonder if any teams have lost 3 consecutive matches after winning the toss in each? Also how many wkts has yobbo taken with the newish ball so far this series? He really looks barely above medium. They said it was a good toss to lose. I would have batted first seeing the forcast is rather damp later in the match.

this booing is getting tiresome.

mike

On 2023-07-06, mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Yep Brook at 3 which could break him, or not, and Jonny gets promoted to 5
> after his 'error' in the last. Ali, Woakes & Wood all in: I think Ali is mistake.
> Expecting runs to flow for Oz. Marsh makes a surprise appearance as Green
> feeling sore, and boland back for Hazel.
>
> Oz inserted again: i wonder if any teams have lost 3 consecutive matches after winning the toss in each? Also how many wkts has yobbo taken with the newish ball so far this series? He really looks barely above medium. They said it was a good toss to lose. I would have batted first seeing the forcast is rather damp later in the match.
>
> this booing is getting tiresome.
>
> mike

Great to see Wood roaring in.

Unconvinced by the selection of Ali.

(groan) virtue-signalling: gay pride colours on the base of the stumps: why?
It's not even the month we used to call June -- quite pathetic.

On 06/07/2023 11:52, mike wrote:
> Oz inserted again: i wonder if any teams have lost 3 consecutive
> matches after winning the toss in each?

As (a) winning three consecutive tosses is a decent chance, and
(b) losing three consecutive matches is reasonably common, esp in a
"shark vs minnow" series, I'd be amazed if (a) and (b) happening to the
same three matches was particularly rare. Perhaps roughly every other
year?

Separately, I point you to the "Hitting Against The Spin"
statistic that, absurd as it may seem from the PoV of Game Theory,
winning the toss has been a modestly-serious disadvantage. Whether
it will remain so in an era in which bowling first has become quite
common is yet to be seen.

--
Andy Walker, Nottingham.
Andy's music pages: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music
Composer of the day: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music/Composers/Necke

On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 12:22:10 PM UTC+1, Andy Walker wrote:
> On 06/07/2023 11:52, mike wrote:
> > Oz inserted again: i wonder if any teams have lost 3 consecutive
> > matches after winning the toss in each?
> As (a) winning three consecutive tosses is a decent chance, and
> (b) losing three consecutive matches is reasonably common, esp in a
> "shark vs minnow" series, I'd be amazed if (a) and (b) happening to the
> same three matches was particularly rare. Perhaps roughly every other
> year?
>
> Separately, I point you to the "Hitting Against The Spin"
> statistic that, absurd as it may seem from the PoV of Game Theory,
> winning the toss has been a modestly-serious disadvantage. Whether
> it will remain so in an era in which bowling first has become quite
> common is yet to be seen.
>
> --
> Andy Walker, Nottingham.
> Andy's music pages: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music
> Composer of the day: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music/Composers/Necke

FS Jackson won all five tosses in the 1905 Ashes . The Oz captain Joe Darling offered to wretch with Jackson for first innings in the fifth match.. Jackson said no but he would be happy for George Hirst to wrestle with Darling . Darling refused . RH

On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 11:52:21 AM UTC+1, mike wrote:
>
> Oz inserted again: i wonder if any teams have lost 3 consecutive matches after winning the toss in each? Also how many wkts has yobbo taken with the newish ball so far this series? He really looks barely above
medium.

not helped by jonny missing 1 off smith, who then hits a 6 to celebrate.

mike

On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 12:48:21 PM UTC+1, mike wrote:
> On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 11:52:21 AM UTC+1, mike wrote:
> >
> > Oz inserted again: i wonder if any teams have lost 3 consecutive matches after winning the toss in each? Also how many wkts has yobbo taken with the newish ball so far this series? He really looks barely above
> medium.
> not helped by jonny missing 1 off smith, who then hits a 6 to celebrate.
>
> mike

and now drops head too. smith 1 was quite difficult, but got smith in the end. eventful morning, but
if they have to get the rest out twice, its not gonna end happily.

mike

On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 1:14:26 PM UTC+1, mike wrote:
> On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 12:48:21 PM UTC+1, mike wrote:
> > On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 11:52:21 AM UTC+1, mike wrote:
> > >
> > > Oz inserted again: i wonder if any teams have lost 3 consecutive matches after winning the toss in each? Also how many wkts has yobbo taken with the newish ball so far this series? He really looks barely above
> > medium.
> > not helped by jonny missing 1 off smith, who then hits a 6 to celebrate..
> >
> > mike
> and now drops head too. smith 1 was quite difficult, but got smith in the end. eventful morning, but
> if they have to get the rest out twice, its not gonna end happily.
>
> mike

acc to TMS, roots drop of Marsh [Woakes again unlucky] was the 13th chance england have missed
plus two wkts off nbs.

oz have missed seven chances so far & 1 wkt off a nb

mike

On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 11:15:18 PM UTC+10, mike wrote:
> On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 1:14:26 PM UTC+1, mike wrote:
> > On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 12:48:21 PM UTC+1, mike wrote:
> > > On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 11:52:21 AM UTC+1, mike wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Oz inserted again: i wonder if any teams have lost 3 consecutive matches after winning the toss in each? Also how many wkts has yobbo taken with the newish ball so far this series? He really looks barely above
> > > medium.
> > > not helped by jonny missing 1 off smith, who then hits a 6 to celebrate.
> > >
> > > mike
> > and now drops head too. smith 1 was quite difficult, but got smith in the end. eventful morning, but
> > if they have to get the rest out twice, its not gonna end happily.
> >
> > mike
> acc to TMS, roots drop of Marsh [Woakes again unlucky] was the 13th chance england have missed
> plus two wkts off nbs.
>
> oz have missed seven chances so far & 1 wkt off a nb
>
There's an advantage to picking a keeper

In message <5c73728b-4a77-447d-ac7b-2ee89fdfc169n@googlegroups.com>,
Hamish Laws <hamish.laws@gmail.com> writes
>On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 11:15:180 >> On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 1:14:260 >> > On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 12:48:210 >> > > On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 11:52:210 >> > > >
>> > > > Oz inserted again: i wonder if any teams have lost 3
>> > > >consecutive matches after winning the toss in each? Also how
>> > > >yobbo taken with the newish ball so far this series? He really
>> > > >barely above
>> > > medium.
>> > > not helped by jonny missing 1 off smith, who then hits a 6 to celebrate.
>> > >
>> > > mike
>> > and now drops head too. smith 1 was quite difficult, but got smith
>> >in the end. eventful morning, but
>> > if they have to get the rest out twice, its not gonna end happily.
>> >
>> > mike
>> acc to TMS, roots drop of Marsh [Woakes again unlucky] was the 13th
>>chance england have missed
>> plus two wkts off nbs.
>>
>> oz have missed seven chances so far & 1 wkt off a nb
>>
>There's an advantage to picking a keeper

Yep. There was a case for replacing Pope with Foakes, who might well
have scored as many runs as Pope as well as being a better keeper than
Bairstow. I can see why England felt they needed the extra bowler,
though, with Stokes unlikely to be able to bowl many - if any - overs
and fitness doubts about many of the other bowlers.

It was a remarkable day's play. After the advantage swung wildly back
and forth several times, I reckon honours finished just about even.

Nice to see a pitch with decent pace and bounce. And what a performance
by Wood! He probably wouldn't have been as effective on the deader
pitches at Edgbaston and Lord's, but even so if he had been fit enough
to play he might have turned what were two close encounters.

Apparently Robinson's problem today was a back spasm, so there's hope
that he might be fit to bowl by the second innings.
--
John Hall "[It was] so steep that at intervals the street broke into steps,
like a person breaking into giggles or hiccups, and then resumed
its sober climb, until it had another fit of steps."
Ursula K Le Guin "The Beginning Place"

On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 8:33:31 PM UTC+1, John Hall wrote:
> In message <5c73728b-4a77-447d...@googlegroups.com>,
> Hamish Laws <hamis...@gmail.com> writes
> >On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 11:15:180 >> On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 1:14:260 >> > On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 12:48:210 >> > > On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 11:52:210 >> > > >
> >> > > > Oz inserted again: i wonder if any teams have lost 3
> >> > > >consecutive matches after winning the toss in each? Also how
> >> > > >yobbo taken with the newish ball so far this series? He really
> >> > > >barely above
> >> > > medium.
> >> > > not helped by jonny missing 1 off smith, who then hits a 6 to celebrate.
> >> > >
> >> > > mike
> >> > and now drops head too. smith 1 was quite difficult, but got smith
> >> >in the end. eventful morning, but
> >> > if they have to get the rest out twice, its not gonna end happily.
> >> >
> >> > mike
> >> acc to TMS, roots drop of Marsh [Woakes again unlucky] was the 13th
> >>chance england have missed
> >> plus two wkts off nbs.
> >>
> >> oz have missed seven chances so far & 1 wkt off a nb
> >>
> >There's an advantage to picking a keeper
> Yep. There was a case for replacing Pope with Foakes, who might well
> have scored as many runs as Pope as well as being a better keeper than
> Bairstow. I can see why England felt they needed the extra bowler,
> though, with Stokes unlikely to be able to bowl many - if any - overs
> and fitness doubts about many of the other bowlers.

yes but i wouldnt have picked ali. hopefully i'm wrong but i dont see
him doing much, so foakes as keeper would have been my choice.

none of the yorkie players had a good day. brook got out to a defensive
prod, so at least no one can say he was reckless, unlike Ducket
and also creepy almost at the end of the day. but brook is beginning
to look as lost as jason roy did back in 2019.

>
> It was a remarkable day's play. After the advantage swung wildly back
> and forth several times, I reckon honours finished just about even.

seeing how we've batted in the previous tests i'm not expecting
anything different tomorrow. probably wont make 200.

>
> Nice to see a pitch with decent pace and bounce. And what a performance
> by Wood! He probably wouldn't have been as effective on the deader
> pitches at Edgbaston and Lord's, but even so if he had been fit enough
> to play he might have turned what were two close encounters.

he was incredibly quick, bouncer into the pavilion stuff, and they said
the ball that bowled starc ended up over the boundary. But Marsh is
the new Mr Bazball.

>
> Apparently Robinson's problem today was a back spasm, so there's hope
> that he might be fit to bowl by the second innings.

well we can hope but his antics today wernt helpful, he got frustrated
bowled some crap short stuff then threw the ball at marsh when he was
well in his ground. probably did his back then.

mike

On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 10:29:55 PM UTC+1, mike wrote:
> On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 8:33:31 PM UTC+1, John Hall wrote:
> > In message <5c73728b-4a77-447d...@googlegroups.com>,
> > Hamish Laws <hamis...@gmail.com> writes
> > >On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 11:15:180 >> On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 1:14:260 >> > On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 12:48:210 >> > > On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 11:52:210 >> > > >
> > >> > > > Oz inserted again: i wonder if any teams have lost 3
> > >> > > >consecutive matches after winning the toss in each? Also how
> > >> > > >yobbo taken with the newish ball so far this series? He really
> > >> > > >barely above
> > >> > > medium.
> > >> > > not helped by jonny missing 1 off smith, who then hits a 6 to celebrate.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > mike
> > >> > and now drops head too. smith 1 was quite difficult, but got smith
> > >> >in the end. eventful morning, but
> > >> > if they have to get the rest out twice, its not gonna end happily.
> > >> >
> > >> > mike
> > >> acc to TMS, roots drop of Marsh [Woakes again unlucky] was the 13th
> > >>chance england have missed
> > >> plus two wkts off nbs.
> > >>
> > >> oz have missed seven chances so far & 1 wkt off a nb
> > >>
> > >There's an advantage to picking a keeper
> > Yep. There was a case for replacing Pope with Foakes, who might well
> > have scored as many runs as Pope as well as being a better keeper than
> > Bairstow. I can see why England felt they needed the extra bowler,
> > though, with Stokes unlikely to be able to bowl many - if any - overs
> > and fitness doubts about many of the other bowlers.
> yes but i wouldnt have picked ali. hopefully i'm wrong but i dont see
> him doing much, so foakes as keeper would have been my choice.
>

i understand why they wanted jonny back after last summer, but dropping
Foakes may have cost us any chance at the ashes. pity they dropped
tongue for ali.

> none of the yorkie players had a good day. brook got out to a defensive
> prod, so at least no one can say he was reckless, unlike Ducket
> and also creepy almost at the end of the day. but brook is beginning
> to look as lost as jason roy did back in 2019.

it hasnt got any better for the yorkies today

> >
> > It was a remarkable day's play. After the advantage swung wildly back
> > and forth several times, I reckon honours finished just about even.
> seeing how we've batted in the previous tests i'm not expecting
> anything different tomorrow. probably wont make 200.

thanks to stokes again they did just, but everytime they have a chance
to put oz under pressure, they fail. their batting has a sense of desparation,
its like they feel theyr bound to get out anyway, so just try to smash some
boundaries.

was marsh really on holiday? i thought he was part of the original squad.

mike

In message <c3b1005e-271e-4cf7-8ff7-e41be7c758b4n@googlegroups.com>,
mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 10:29:550 >> seeing how we've batted in the previous tests i'm not expecting
>> anything different tomorrow. probably wont make 200.
>
>thanks to stokes again they did just, but everytime they have a chance
>to put oz under pressure, they fail. their batting has a sense of desparation,
>its like they feel theyr bound to get out anyway, so just try to smash some
>boundaries.

I think the real difference has been the catching. If England had held
their catches, they would probably be 2-0 up instead of 2-0 down.
>
>was marsh really on holiday? i thought he was part of the original squad.
>

He was joking. Without Green's injury, he would almost certainly have
gone through the tour without playing.
--
John Hall "[It was] so steep that at intervals the street broke into steps,
like a person breaking into giggles or hiccups, and then resumed
its sober climb, until it had another fit of steps."
Ursula K Le Guin "The Beginning Place"

On Friday, July 7, 2023 at 8:24:09 PM UTC+1, John Hall wrote:
> In message <c3b1005e-271e-4cf7...@googlegroups.com>,
> mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
> >On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 10:29:550 >> seeing how we've batted in the previous tests i'm not expecting
> >> anything different tomorrow. probably wont make 200.
> >
> >thanks to stokes again they did just, but everytime they have a chance
> >to put oz under pressure, they fail. their batting has a sense of desparation,
> >its like they feel theyr bound to get out anyway, so just try to smash some
> >boundaries.
> I think the real difference has been the catching. If England had held
> their catches, they would probably be 2-0 up instead of 2-0 down.
> >

yes that seems such a problem for england ATM, that it could easily
become 3-0 especially if marsh & head get going. Plus mr extras is the oz 12th man.
74 they said in the last match, 23 in the 1st innings here. Judging by what the oz
supporters were saying before the series began, they were nervous of bazball,
but actually englands batters have made it pretty easy for them.

mike

On Saturday, July 8, 2023 at 10:49:28 AM UTC+1, mike wrote:
> On Friday, July 7, 2023 at 8:24:09 PM UTC+1, John Hall wrote:
> > In message <c3b1005e-271e-4cf7...@googlegroups.com>,
> > mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
> > >On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 10:29:550 >> seeing how we've batted in the previous tests i'm not expecting
> > >> anything different tomorrow. probably wont make 200.
> > >
> > >thanks to stokes again they did just, but everytime they have a chance
> > >to put oz under pressure, they fail. their batting has a sense of desparation,
> > >its like they feel theyr bound to get out anyway, so just try to smash some
> > >boundaries.
> > I think the real difference has been the catching. If England had held
> > their catches, they would probably be 2-0 up instead of 2-0 down.
> > >
> yes that seems such a problem for england ATM, that it could easily
> become 3-0 especially if marsh & head get going. Plus mr extras is the oz 12th man.
> 74 they said in the last match, 23 in the 1st innings here. Judging by what the oz
> supporters were saying before the series began, they were nervous of bazball,
> but actually englands batters have made it pretty easy for them.
>

thats if we get any play today. more rain & tstorms to come.

mike

On Saturday, 8 July 2023 at 11:24:59 UTC+1, mike wrote:

> thats if we get any play today. more rain & tstorms to come.

It's a sort of no-win situation for England here - bowl Aus out in the humidity and they then face the new ball in these conditions...

In message <3e997cf5-302b-4373-88d8-3ad29dfb0056n@googlegroups.com>,
Richard Dixon <richsdixon1975@gmail.com> writes
>On Saturday, 8 July 2023 at 11:24:59 UTC+1, mike wrote:
>
>> thats if we get any play today. more rain & tstorms to come.
>
>It's a sort of no-win situation for England here - bowl Aus out in the
>humidity and they then face the new ball in these conditions...

The weather gods thankfully continued the bias towards England that they
have shown all series, so that the sun was out before they came to bat.

When play began at 4:45 and then it began to rain again after one over,
I thought that was it for the day. By the time I discovered my mistake,
I had missed Marsh's wicket.

Given how much the ball was doing, I thought it was a mistake to bowl
almost exclusively short at Head. I know they think he has a weakness
against the short ball, but he dealt with it pretty effectively today.
--
John Hall "[It was] so steep that at intervals the street broke into steps,
like a person breaking into giggles or hiccups, and then resumed
its sober climb, until it had another fit of steps."
Ursula K Le Guin "The Beginning Place"

Another great Test is happening. I pity anyone who's not enjoying the entertainment.

I know this goes against all internet rules, but I'm expecting an "easy enough" win for England.

On Saturday, July 8, 2023 at 8:21:51 PM UTC+1, John Hall wrote:
> In message <3e997cf5-302b-4373...@googlegroups.com>,
> Richard Dixon <richsdi...@gmail.com> writes
> >On Saturday, 8 July 2023 at 11:24:59 UTC+1, mike wrote:
> >
> >> thats if we get any play today. more rain & tstorms to come.
> >
> >It's a sort of no-win situation for England here - bowl Aus out in the
> >humidity and they then face the new ball in these conditions...
> The weather gods thankfully continued the bias towards England that they
> have shown all series, so that the sun was out before they came to bat.
>
> When play began at 4:45 and then it began to rain again after one over,
> I thought that was it for the day. By the time I discovered my mistake,
> I had missed Marsh's wicket.
>
> Given how much the ball was doing, I thought it was a mistake to bowl
> almost exclusively short at Head. I know they think he has a weakness
> against the short ball, but he dealt with it pretty effectively today.
> --

yes at 170-8 even though murphy played pretty well, it seemed really
gifting head a lot runs; he could have a slog knowing the ball wasnt going
to hit the wkt. great innings by him to cheer the oz supporters and will
england rue those extra 54 runs?

and what was bairstow doing leaving that catch to brook?
thyeve got to give the gloves to foakes.

mike

On Sunday, July 9, 2023 at 8:07:42 AM UTC+1, jack fredricks wrote:
> Another great Test is happening. I pity anyone who's not enjoying the entertainment.
>
> I know this goes against all internet rules, but I'm expecting an "easy enough" win for England.

you havnt seen england bat before then?

So far this series everytime oz are in trouble someone has stood up and saved the day.

mike

On Sunday, July 9, 2023 at 7:14:46 PM UTC+10, mike davis wrote:
> On Sunday, July 9, 2023 at 8:07:42 AM UTC+1, jack fredricks wrote:
> > Another great Test is happening. I pity anyone who's not enjoying the entertainment.
> >
> > I know this goes against all internet rules, but I'm expecting an "easy enough" win for England.
> you havnt seen england bat before then?
>
> So far this series everytime oz are in trouble someone has stood up and saved the day.
>
> mike
England will win this .....follow the lead of the girls

On Sunday, July 9, 2023 at 10:27:19 AM UTC+1, wlsut...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, July 9, 2023 at 7:14:46 PM UTC+10, mike davis wrote:
> > On Sunday, July 9, 2023 at 8:07:42 AM UTC+1, jack fredricks wrote:
> > > Another great Test is happening. I pity anyone who's not enjoying the entertainment.
> > >
> > > I know this goes against all internet rules, but I'm expecting an "easy enough" win for England.
> > you havnt seen england bat before then?
> >
> > So far this series everytime oz are in trouble someone has stood up and saved the day.
> >
> > mike
> England will win this .....follow the lead of the girls

doesnt look easy to me. my advice would be careful, dont take any risks, theres
plenty of time despite the weather, wait for the bad ball, dont give yor wkt away etc,
but this england will never play like that. theyll take a chance to play the opposition
back into the match.

mike

On Sunday, 9 July 2023 at 10:27:19 UTC+1, wlsut...@gmail.com wrote:

> England will win this .....follow the lead of the girls

Silly bat waving aggressive batting ruining Test cricket again, chasing down 250 in 50 overs...

On Sunday, July 9, 2023 at 10:54:25 PM UTC+10, mike wrote:
> doesnt look easy to me

I was a tad nervous for a bit!

On Sunday, July 9, 2023 at 3:50:24 PM UTC+1, jack fredricks wrote:
> On Sunday, July 9, 2023 at 10:54:25 PM UTC+10, mike wrote:
> > doesnt look easy to me
>
> I was a tad nervous for a bit!

i turned it off when bairstow got out, i was sure oz would win again,
left it on record for later. apparently stokes couldnt watch it too
and just did laps of the dressing room listening to the crowd.

but i didnt hear after if he can still bowl. i assume he cant as he didnt in this match.

surely they have to drop yobbo for OT, perhaps tongue if the pitch
is gonna be like the 1st 2, or anderson if hes fully fit. And they
must bring in foakes for bairstow, hes not making any runs and hes
dropping too many catches. plus they have a no3 prob, they surely
cant expect ali to be a sacrificial lamb again?

i remember after headingley 2019, their heads swelled, there were
a lot of hurrah speeches about what they would do at OT, in reality
they subsided rather meekly and oz retained the ashes. and this
time oz only needs a draw.

mike

On 06/07/2023 12:22, Andy Walker wrote:
> On 06/07/2023 11:52, mike wrote:
>> Oz inserted again: i wonder if any teams have lost 3 consecutive
>> matches after winning the toss in each?
>
>     As (a) winning three consecutive tosses is a decent chance, and
> (b) losing three consecutive matches is reasonably common, esp in a
> "shark vs minnow" series, I'd be amazed if (a) and (b) happening to the
> same three matches was particularly rare.  Perhaps roughly every other
> year?

It last happened to England in the first 3 Tests of the 2017/18 Ashes,
and it also happened in England's 3 previous away Tests, in India in
2016/17.

Previous occurrences for England were:

The first 3 Tests of the 2002/03 Ashes;
The 3rd Test in India and the Test in SL in 2002/03, and the 1st Ashes
Test in 2003;
The 2nd, 3rd and 4th Ashes Tests of 1901/02.

There has been one instance when it happened to England in 4 consecutive
Tests: the last 2 Tests of 1920/21 and the first 2 of 1921, all v Aus.

There has also been one instance when it happened to Australia in 4
consecutive Tests: in India in 2012/13. As with the England sequence of
4, they chose to bat first every time.

If England had lost at Headingley, if would have been the first time it
had happened to them in 3 consecutive home Tests.

It has happened twice to Australia in 3 consecutive home Tests:

The last 2 Ashes Tests, and the 1st Test v Pakistan, in 1978/79;
The first 3 Tests v WI in 1988/89.

--
David North