England name unchanged side including the GOAT quick bowler whos
taken 4 wkts at about 70 with a strike rate of 171 over 3 tests whereas
i hoped we might get more Tongue. And I think the oval is jimmys least effective ground in the UK, but the weather looks similar to OT. Hopefully there be some play on thursday, friday looks ok, saturday may be disrupted Sunday more promising, monday a complete washout. England have been bigging themselves up in the usual way, but will they walk the walk not
just talk the talk this time?

mike

In message <164d04f6-16ef-4dc3-af3d-2592930ab8f9n@googlegroups.com>,
mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>England name unchanged side including the GOAT quick bowler whos
>taken 4 wkts at about 70 with a strike rate of 171 over 3 tests whereas
>i hoped we might get more Tongue. And I think the oval is jimmys least
>effective ground in the UK, but the weather looks similar to OT.
>Hopefully there be some play on thursday, friday looks ok, saturday may
>be disrupted Sunday more promising, monday a complete washout. England
>have been bigging themselves up in the usual way, but will they walk
>the walk not
>just talk the talk this time?
>
>mike

I worry that the events at Old Trafford will have left them feeling flat
and that they'll find it hard to play with the necessary intensity. It
will be a real test of Stokes' and McCullum's motivational skills.
--
John Hall "[It was] so steep that at intervals the street broke into steps,
like a person breaking into giggles or hiccups, and then resumed
its sober climb, until it had another fit of steps."
Ursula K Le Guin "The Beginning Place"

On Wed, 26 Jul 2023 18:25:40 +0100, John Hall wrote:

> In message <164d04f6-16ef-4dc3-af3d-2592930ab8f9n@googlegroups.com>,
> mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>>England name unchanged side including the GOAT quick bowler whos taken 4
>>wkts at about 70 with a strike rate of 171 over 3 tests whereas i hoped
>>we might get more Tongue. And I think the oval is jimmys least effective
>>ground in the UK, but the weather looks similar to OT. Hopefully there
>>be some play on thursday, friday looks ok, saturday may be disrupted
>>Sunday more promising, monday a complete washout. England have been
>>bigging themselves up in the usual way, but will they walk the walk not
>>just talk the talk this time?
>>
>>mike
>
> I worry that the events at Old Trafford will have left them feeling flat
> and that they'll find it hard to play with the necessary intensity.

But otoh, those same events may have left the Australians severely
hungover. Swings'n'roundabouts.

> It will be a real test of Stokes' and McCullum's motivational skills.

I'd opine that Eng have more motivation to win than Oz. 2-2 would be
proclaimed long & loud as a win. MBEs all round!

On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 3:27:28 AM UTC+10, John Hall wrote:
> In message <164d04f6-16ef-4dc3...@googlegroups.com>,
> mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
> >England name unchanged side including the GOAT quick bowler whos
> >taken 4 wkts at about 70 with a strike rate of 171 over 3 tests whereas
> >i hoped we might get more Tongue. And I think the oval is jimmys least
> >effective ground in the UK, but the weather looks similar to OT.
> >Hopefully there be some play on thursday, friday looks ok, saturday may
> >be disrupted Sunday more promising, monday a complete washout. England
> >have been bigging themselves up in the usual way, but will they walk
> >the walk not
> >just talk the talk this time?
> >
> >mike
> I worry that the events at Old Trafford will have left them feeling flat
> and that they'll find it hard to play with the necessary intensity. It
> will be a real test of Stokes' and McCullum's motivational skills.
> --
> John Hall "[It was] so steep that at intervals the street broke into steps,
> like a person breaking into giggles or hiccups, and then resumed
> its sober climb, until it had another fit of steps."
> Ursula K Le Guin "The Beginning Place"

I would be happy if Cummins won a toss....has a Captain gone through an Ashes series not winning a toss?

Maybe bring a new Captain in for next Test...... and he would not just be Head but would call it

On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 8:22:42 PM UTC+10, wlsut...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 3:27:28 AM UTC+10, John Hall wrote:
> > In message <164d04f6-16ef-4dc3...@googlegroups.com>,
> > mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
> > >England name unchanged side including the GOAT quick bowler whos
> > >taken 4 wkts at about 70 with a strike rate of 171 over 3 tests whereas
> > >i hoped we might get more Tongue. And I think the oval is jimmys least
> > >effective ground in the UK, but the weather looks similar to OT.
> > >Hopefully there be some play on thursday, friday looks ok, saturday may
> > >be disrupted Sunday more promising, monday a complete washout. England
> > >have been bigging themselves up in the usual way, but will they walk
> > >the walk not
> > >just talk the talk this time?
> > >
> > >mike
> > I worry that the events at Old Trafford will have left them feeling flat
> > and that they'll find it hard to play with the necessary intensity. It
> > will be a real test of Stokes' and McCullum's motivational skills.
>
> I would be happy if Cummins won a toss....has a Captain gone through an Ashes series not winning a toss?

Joe Darling 1905 is the last for Australia
>
> Maybe bring a new Captain in for next Test...... and he would not just be Head but would call it

On Wednesday, 26 July 2023 at 18:07:19 UTC+1, mike wrote:
> England name unchanged side including the GOAT quick bowler whos
> taken 4 wkts at about 70 with a strike rate of 171 over 3 tests whereas
> i hoped we might get more Tongue.

Well he's got some handy bowling conditions now we've slapped out way to 270-odd or so. Over to you, Jimmy for another tidy but unthreatening opening spell of 5-3-7-0 ?

On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 4:17:12 PM UTC+1, Richard Dixon wrote:
> On Wednesday, 26 July 2023 at 18:07:19 UTC+1, mike wrote:
> > England name unchanged side including the GOAT quick bowler whos
> > taken 4 wkts at about 70 with a strike rate of 171 over 3 tests whereas
> > i hoped we might get more Tongue.
> Well he's got some handy bowling conditions now we've slapped out way to 270-odd or so. Over to you, Jimmy for another tidy but unthreatening opening spell of 5-3-7-0 ?

4-0-16-0 is distinctly underwhelming. I think this could be 1 test too many this summer
for both jimmy and broad.

England seem to think run rate is more important than total runs. Theyr about a 100 short.
Could we see a reversal of OT, with oz batting long and england facing innings defeat?
I bet they dont handle it like oz did with marnus at OT. Plus theyr a man down already,
so root will have to the spin bowling duties.

mike

On 7/27/2023 4:38 AM, Hamish Laws wrote:
> On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 8:22:42 PM UTC+10, wlsut...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 3:27:28 AM UTC+10, John Hall wrote:
>>> In message <164d04f6-16ef-4dc3...@googlegroups.com>,
>>> mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>>>> England name unchanged side including the GOAT quick bowler whos
>>>> taken 4 wkts at about 70 with a strike rate of 171 over 3 tests whereas
>>>> i hoped we might get more Tongue. And I think the oval is jimmys least
>>>> effective ground in the UK, but the weather looks similar to OT.
>>>> Hopefully there be some play on thursday, friday looks ok, saturday may
>>>> be disrupted Sunday more promising, monday a complete washout. England
>>>> have been bigging themselves up in the usual way, but will they walk
>>>> the walk not
>>>> just talk the talk this time?
>>>>
>>>> mike
>>> I worry that the events at Old Trafford will have left them feeling flat
>>> and that they'll find it hard to play with the necessary intensity. It
>>> will be a real test of Stokes' and McCullum's motivational skills.
>>
>> I would be happy if Cummins won a toss....has a Captain gone through an Ashes series not winning a toss?
>
> Joe Darling 1905 is the last for Australia
>>
>> Maybe bring a new Captain in for next Test...... and he would not just be Head but would call it

Australia became a vassal colony of the EVIL USA.

https://twitter.com/caitoz/status/1684419311845384192
A new US warship has been ushered into service in Sydney. The ship is
called the USS Canberra to honor the military union of the United States
and Australia, and, if that's still too subtle for you, it has a literal
star-spangled kangaroo affixed to its side.

That's right: the first US warship ever commissioned in a foreign port
has been emblazoned with a kangaroo covered in the stars and stripes of
the United States flag. An Australian officer will reportedly always be
part of the staff of the ship, to further symbolize the holy matrimony
between Australia and the US war machine.

"I can think of no better symbol of this shared future than the USS
Canberra," gushed US ambassador to Australia Caroline Kennedy. "Built by
American workers at an Australian company in Mobile, Alabama, her crew
will always include a Royal Australian Navy sailor, and from today
forward, she will proudly display a star-spangled kangaroo."

And you know what? She's right. Not because of her giddy joy over the
complete absorption of Australia into the US military apparatus of
course — that's a horrifying nightmare which is increasingly putting
this nation on track toward a frontline role in Washington's war plans
against China. But she's right that the star-spangled kangaroo and the
ship which carries it is a perfect symbol for the way these two nations
have become inseparably intertwined.

In fact, I'd take it a step further. I'd say the star-spangled kangaroo
should be the new symbol for our entire nation.

I mean, we might as well, right? Australia is not a sovereign nation in
any meaningful way; we're functionally a US military/intelligence asset,
and according to our defence minister Richard Marles our own military is
being moved “beyond interoperability to interchangeability” with the US
war machine so they can “operate seamlessly together, at speed.”

The US imprisons Australian journalist Julian Assange for exposing US
war crimes like he's the personal property of the Pentagon, and when the
US doesn't like our Prime Minister because he's too keen on Australian
independence or perceived as too friendly with China, they simply
replace him with another one.

We even found out not long ago that Australians are not given permission
to know if the US is bringing nuclear weapons into this country. That is
a secret the US keeps from all of us, and our government respects their
privacy on the matter.

So I think the star-spangled kangaroo is an entirely appropriate symbol
for this country. Put it on our flag. Put it on our money. Put it on all
our warships and planes, and on every military uniform. When you walk
into an Australian government building, Yankarooey (or whatever stupid
Aussie nickname we make up for the thing to mask our own cognitive
dissonance) should be the first thing everyone sees.

Undignified? Certainly. Humiliating? Absolutely. An admission that
Australia is not a real nation? Of course.

But at least it would be honest. If we're going to act like Washington's
subservient basement gimp, we may as well dress the part.

On 27/07/2023 12:38, Hamish Laws wrote:
> On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 8:22:42 PM UTC+10, wlsut...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 3:27:28 AM UTC+10, John Hall wrote:
>>> In message <164d04f6-16ef-4dc3...@googlegroups.com>,
>>> mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>>>> England name unchanged side including the GOAT quick bowler whos
>>>> taken 4 wkts at about 70 with a strike rate of 171 over 3 tests whereas
>>>> i hoped we might get more Tongue. And I think the oval is jimmys least
>>>> effective ground in the UK, but the weather looks similar to OT.
>>>> Hopefully there be some play on thursday, friday looks ok, saturday may
>>>> be disrupted Sunday more promising, monday a complete washout. England
>>>> have been bigging themselves up in the usual way, but will they walk
>>>> the walk not
>>>> just talk the talk this time?
>>>>
>>>> mike
>>> I worry that the events at Old Trafford will have left them feeling flat
>>> and that they'll find it hard to play with the necessary intensity. It
>>> will be a real test of Stokes' and McCullum's motivational skills.
>>
>> I would be happy if Cummins won a toss....has a Captain gone through an Ashes series not winning a toss?
>
> Joe Darling 1905 is the last for Australia

.... and the only one.

For England, Archie MacLaren in 1909, Len Hutton in 1953 and Alec
Stewart in 1998/99. Mike Atherton also lost the first 5 tosses of 6 in 1997.

--
David North

In message <b9f37863-40e8-4335-a2d5-c511d8c44898n@googlegroups.com>,
"wlsut...@gmail.com" <wlsutton54@gmail.com> writes
> I would be happy if Cummins won a toss....has a Captain gone through
>an Ashes series not winning a toss?
>
>Maybe bring a new Captain in for next Test...... and he would not just
>be Head but would call it

Well Cummins has won a toss now. And yes, a captain has gone through a
five match Ashes series losing all five tosses. One instance was in
1905, when the Aussie captain (IIRC Joe Darling) managed it. It's not
that unlikely, a one in 32 chance (or one in 16 if you consider the
chance that one or the other captain will do so).
--
John Hall "[It was] so steep that at intervals the street broke into steps,
like a person breaking into giggles or hiccups, and then resumed
its sober climb, until it had another fit of steps."
Ursula K Le Guin "The Beginning Place"

In message <kifl3lFefb5U1@mid.individual.net>, David North
<nospam@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk> writes
>On 27/07/2023 12:38, Hamish Laws wrote:
>> On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 8:22:420 >>> On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 3:27:280 >>>> In message <164d04f6-16ef-4dc3...@googlegroups.com>,
>>>> mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>>>>> England name unchanged side including the GOAT quick bowler whos
>>>>> taken 4 wkts at about 70 with a strike rate of 171 over 3 tests whereas
>>>>> i hoped we might get more Tongue. And I think the oval is jimmys least
>>>>> effective ground in the UK, but the weather looks similar to OT.
>>>>> Hopefully there be some play on thursday, friday looks ok, saturday may
>>>>> be disrupted Sunday more promising, monday a complete washout. England
>>>>> have been bigging themselves up in the usual way, but will they walk
>>>>> the walk not
>>>>> just talk the talk this time?
>>>>>
>>>>> mike
>>>> I worry that the events at Old Trafford will have left them feeling flat
>>>> and that they'll find it hard to play with the necessary intensity. It
>>>> will be a real test of Stokes' and McCullum's motivational skills.
>>>
>>> I would be happy if Cummins won a toss....has a Captain gone through
>>>an Ashes series not winning a toss?
>> Joe Darling 1905 is the last for Australia
>
>... and the only one.
>
>For England, Archie MacLaren in 1909, Len Hutton in 1953 and Alec
>Stewart in 1998/99. Mike Atherton also lost the first 5 tosses of 6 in
>1997.
>
>
Which means that Hutton is the only captain losing all five tosses to
manage to win the series (or even not to lose). Cummins might have been
the second had he lost the toss today.
--
John Hall "[It was] so steep that at intervals the street broke into steps,
like a person breaking into giggles or hiccups, and then resumed
its sober climb, until it had another fit of steps."
Ursula K Le Guin "The Beginning Place"

In message <7ffc0f11-29a1-47ca-8cd4-86c34ebb2695n@googlegroups.com>,
Richard Dixon <richsdixon1975@gmail.com> writes
>On Wednesday, 26 July 2023 at 18:07:19 UTC+1, mike wrote:
>> England name unchanged side including the GOAT quick bowler whos
>> taken 4 wkts at about 70 with a strike rate of 171 over 3 tests whereas
>> i hoped we might get more Tongue.
>
>Well he's got some handy bowling conditions now we've slapped out way
>to 270-odd or so. Over to you, Jimmy for another tidy but unthreatening
>opening spell of 5-3-7-0 ?

Unfortunately it wasn't even very tidy.
--
John Hall "[It was] so steep that at intervals the street broke into steps,
like a person breaking into giggles or hiccups, and then resumed
its sober climb, until it had another fit of steps."
Ursula K Le Guin "The Beginning Place"

In message <b57cfa92-7f49-47b3-a7d0-348d14aac037n@googlegroups.com>,
mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 4:17:120 >> On Wednesday, 26 July 2023 at 18:07:19 UTC+1, mike wrote:
>> > England name unchanged side including the GOAT quick bowler whos
>> > taken 4 wkts at about 70 with a strike rate of 171 over 3 tests whereas
>> > i hoped we might get more Tongue.
>> Well he's got some handy bowling conditions now we've slapped out way
>>to 270-odd or so. Over to you, Jimmy for another tidy but
>>unthreatening opening spell of 5-3-7-0 ?
>
>4-0-16-0 is distinctly underwhelming. I think this could be 1 test too
>many this summer
>for both jimmy and broad.

I thought that Broad bowled OK.

>
>England seem to think run rate is more important than total runs. Theyr
>about a 100 short.

I didn't think that they were overly reckless, except perhaps Moeen
after his groin strain, when he evidently felt that he was too
handicapped to defend probably, so might as well go for everything. And
it came off for a while. An already gloomy day became even darker during
the afternoon session and the floodlights were turned on and, as often
seems to happen, the ball started swinging and seaming more.

>Could we see a reversal of OT, with oz batting long and england facing
>innings defeat?

I hope not. A lot could depend on the weather tomorrow. We could really
do with a couple of wickets early on.

>I bet they dont handle it like oz did with marnus at OT. Plus theyr a
>man down already,
>so root will have to the spin bowling duties.
>
Apparently the pitch is very dry so, assuming that Moeen is unable to
bowl tomorrow, that could be significant. Root may have to bowl quite a
few overs. I was surprised that Stokes didn't give him a couple of overs
this evening, just to see if he could get any turn. Fingers crossed that
Moeen is fit enough to bowl by the time Australia start their second
innings (assuming they need one), though it seems unlikely, especially
as he'd need to be fit to field as well.
--
John Hall "[It was] so steep that at intervals the street broke into steps,
like a person breaking into giggles or hiccups, and then resumed
its sober climb, until it had another fit of steps."
Ursula K Le Guin "The Beginning Place"

On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 7:26:33 PM UTC+1, John Hall wrote:
> In message <b57cfa92-7f49-47b3...@googlegroups.com>,
> mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
> >On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 4:17:120 >> On Wednesday, 26 July 2023 at 18:07:19 UTC+1, mike wrote:
> >> > England name unchanged side including the GOAT quick bowler whos
> >> > taken 4 wkts at about 70 with a strike rate of 171 over 3 tests whereas
> >> > i hoped we might get more Tongue.
> >> Well he's got some handy bowling conditions now we've slapped out way
> >>to 270-odd or so. Over to you, Jimmy for another tidy but
> >>unthreatening opening spell of 5-3-7-0 ?
> >
> >4-0-16-0 is distinctly underwhelming. I think this could be 1 test too
> >many this summer
> >for both jimmy and broad.
> I thought that Broad bowled OK.
> >
> >England seem to think run rate is more important than total runs. Theyr
> >about a 100 short.
> I didn't think that they were overly reckless, except perhaps Moeen
> after his groin strain, when he evidently felt that he was too
> handicapped to defend probably, so might as well go for everything. And
> it came off for a while. An already gloomy day became even darker during
> the afternoon session and the floodlights were turned on and, as often
> seems to happen, the ball started swinging and seaming more.

yes it was difficult conditions and if oz had held all their catches
esp carey off brook when he was 5, england might not have made 200,
and oz bowled pretty well. i wonder how they would have batted if
england had won the toss and put them in. i suspect it would have
been a much slower day with oz 250-5 ish at close, which i'd prefer to
283 all out and 61-1.

also i remember a story about an england captain who having won 4
tosses sent out his vc for the last who duly won again. Perhaps
thats not allowed now?

> >Could we see a reversal of OT, with oz batting long and england facing
> >innings defeat?
> I hope not. A lot could depend on the weather tomorrow. We could really
> do with a couple of wickets early on.
> >I bet they dont handle it like oz did with marnus at OT. Plus theyr a
> >man down already,
> >so root will have to the spin bowling duties.
> >
> Apparently the pitch is very dry so, assuming that Moeen is unable to
> bowl tomorrow, that could be significant. Root may have to bowl quite a
> few overs. I was surprised that Stokes didn't give him a couple of overs
> this evening, just to see if he could get any turn. Fingers crossed that
> Moeen is fit enough to bowl by the time Australia start their second
> innings (assuming they need one), though it seems unlikely, especially
> as he'd need to be fit to field as well.
> --

when pope got injured he had to field cos the officials said that if he didnt
he wouldnt be able to bat in the 2nd and then he injured himself further.
so if ali doesnt field tomorrow he wont be able to bat? why did the mcc
ban runners? It used to be very entertaining.

mike

In message <3c2ac757-9180-4284-8551-6b58f548321fn@googlegroups.com>,
mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 7:26:330 >> In message <b57cfa92-7f49-47b3...@googlegroups.com>,
>> mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>> >On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 4:17:120 >> On Wednesday, 26 July 2023
>> >at 18:07:19 UTC+1, mike wrote:
>> >> > England name unchanged side including the GOAT quick bowler whos
>> >> > taken 4 wkts at about 70 with a strike rate of 171 over 3 tests whereas
>> >> > i hoped we might get more Tongue.
>> >> Well he's got some handy bowling conditions now we've slapped out way
>> >>to 270-odd or so. Over to you, Jimmy for another tidy but
>> >>unthreatening opening spell of 5-3-7-0 ?
>> >
>> >4-0-16-0 is distinctly underwhelming. I think this could be 1 test too
>> >many this summer
>> >for both jimmy and broad.
>> I thought that Broad bowled OK.
>> >
>> >England seem to think run rate is more important than total runs. Theyr
>> >about a 100 short.
>> I didn't think that they were overly reckless, except perhaps Moeen
>> after his groin strain, when he evidently felt that he was too
>> handicapped to defend probably, so might as well go for everything. And
>> it came off for a while. An already gloomy day became even darker during
>> the afternoon session and the floodlights were turned on and, as often
>> seems to happen, the ball started swinging and seaming more.
>
>yes it was difficult conditions and if oz had held all their catches
>esp carey off brook when he was 5, england might not have made 200,
>and oz bowled pretty well. i wonder how they would have batted if
>england had won the toss and put them in. i suspect it would have
>been a much slower day with oz 250-5 ish at close, which i'd prefer to
>283 all out and 61-1.

My guess is that if Australia had batted they'd have been something like
270-8 at the close, assuming England's over rate had been equally
funereal and that only 80 or so overs were bowled.. But of course
guessing is all we can do.

>
>also i remember a story about an england captain who having won 4
>tosses sent out his vc for the last who duly won again. Perhaps
>thats not allowed now?

It's probably still allowed, but doing so would seem a daft piece of
superstition. Having won the first four tosses didn't make Stokes any
less likely - or indeed any more likely - to win the fifth.

<snip>
>
>when pope got injured he had to field cos the officials said that if he didnt
>he wouldnt be able to bat in the 2nd

I think they may have been influenced by his continuing to bat in the
first innings after being injured.

> and then he injured himself further.
>so if ali doesnt field tomorrow he wont be able to bat?

I don't know. If that's so it doesn't seem right.

> why did the mcc
>ban runners? It used to be very entertaining.
>
>mike

I don't think that's part of the Laws but just a regulation introduced
by ICC for international matches. I don't know why they decided to do
that. It must increase the risk of a batter making an injury worse by
trying to run between the wickets.
--
John Hall "[It was] so steep that at intervals the street broke into steps,
like a person breaking into giggles or hiccups, and then resumed
its sober climb, until it had another fit of steps."
Ursula K Le Guin "The Beginning Place"

On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 9:46:39 PM UTC+1, John Hall wrote:
> In message <3c2ac757-9180-4284...@googlegroups.com>,
> mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
> >
> >when pope got injured he had to field cos the officials said that if he didnt
> >he wouldnt be able to bat in the 2nd
> I think they may have been influenced by his continuing to bat in the
> first innings after being injured.

as did ali, so if theyr consistant, england have only got 10 batters in the 2nd innings,
when, if ever, that will happen, as oz inch closer to englands total. Probably all to
no avail as some forcasts seem to have Sunday and Monday as washouts.

Englands quicks must be tiring by now, brook on, nearly a run out, bairstow adjudged to
have broken the wicket. Will england take the new ball? Sometimes the harder ball gets hit
around the park against a tired attack.

mike

In message <d2f8abda-7458-4d02-a7b2-7fd9ce3b6462n@googlegroups.com>,
mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 9:46:390 >> In message <3c2ac757-9180-4284...@googlegroups.com>,
>> mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>> >
>> >when pope got injured he had to field cos the officials said that if
>> >he didnt
>> >he wouldnt be able to bat in the 2nd
>> I think they may have been influenced by his continuing to bat in the
>> first innings after being injured.
>
>as did ali,
> so if theyr consistant, england have only got 10 batters in the 2nd
>innings,

It may be that in Pope's case he would have been able to bat but not
until 5 wickets had fallen, if he hadn't fielded, as I always understood
that was the regulation. And of course that would have greatly disrupted
England's batting. A further possible complication is that apparently
injuries are categorised as either "internal" or "external", but please
don't ask me what the difference is.

>when, if ever, that will happen, as oz inch closer to englands total.
>Probably all to
>no avail as some forcasts seem to have Sunday and Monday as washouts.

The latest Met office forecast I've seen doesn't look too bad, with the
worst of the rain likely to be overnight Sunday/Monday.

>
>Englands quicks must be tiring by now, brook on, nearly a run out,
>bairstow adjudged to
>have broken the wicket. Will england take the new ball? Sometimes the
>harder ball gets hit
>around the park against a tired attack.

That rather happened on this occasion.

So after a day of several changes of the advantage, Bazball and
Australia's grinding approach (with the exception of Smith and Murphy)
seem to have been about equally effective. However Australia's quicks
have had to bowl nearly twice as many overs as Australia's, which could
prove a dactor in Australia's second innings.
--
John Hall "[It was] so steep that at intervals the street broke into steps,
like a person breaking into giggles or hiccups, and then resumed
its sober climb, until it had another fit of steps."
Ursula K Le Guin "The Beginning Place"

In message <YL5IDpAyPAxkFwAt@jhall_nospamxx.co.uk>, John Hall
<john_nospam@jhall.co.uk> writes
>So after a day of several changes of the advantage, Bazball and
>Australia's grinding approach (with the exception of Smith and Murphy)
>seem to have been about equally effective. However Australia's quicks
>have had to bowl nearly twice as many overs as Australia's, which could
>prove a dactor in Australia's second innings.

Oops. "Australia's quicks" -> "England's quicks". And "dactor" ->
"factor".
--
John Hall "[It was] so steep that at intervals the street broke into steps,
like a person breaking into giggles or hiccups, and then resumed
its sober climb, until it had another fit of steps."
Ursula K Le Guin "The Beginning Place"

On Friday, 28 July 2023 at 19:18:41 UTC+1, John Hall wrote:

> So after a day of several changes of the advantage, Bazball and
> Australia's grinding approach (with the exception of Smith and Murphy)
> seem to have been about equally effective. However Australia's quicks
> have had to bowl nearly twice as many overs as Australia's, which could
> prove a dactor in Australia's second innings.

Also - if England go about it in a slap and tickle way, their exhausted bowlers will have much shorted time to recover, as well. The downsides of The Way of the Baz...

Was there today, exhaustingly topsy-turvy. Sat behind an Aussie who whined all day how boring they are. Another Aussie rattled by Bazball. This summer's awash with them...players, pundits, fans...

On Friday, July 28, 2023 at 9:12:38 PM UTC+1, Richard Dixon wrote:
> On Friday, 28 July 2023 at 19:18:41 UTC+1, John Hall wrote:
>
> > So after a day of several changes of the advantage, Bazball and
> > Australia's grinding approach (with the exception of Smith and Murphy)
> > seem to have been about equally effective. However Australia's quicks
> > have had to bowl nearly twice as many overs as Australia's, which could
> > prove a dactor in Australia's second innings.
> Also - if England go about it in a slap and tickle way, their exhausted bowlers will have much shorted time to recover, as well. The downsides of The Way of the Baz...
>
> Was there today, exhaustingly topsy-turvy. Sat behind an Aussie who whined all day how boring they are. Another Aussie rattled by Bazball. This summer's awash with them...players, pundits, fans...

until this morning i didnt think that oz had been that dull, but they made up for it after
tea. and yes it could be a repeat of egdbaston, if england get themselves out for 250
odd just after tea tomorrow, giving in theory, oz ample time to get the win against
englands exhausted bowlers. at 185-7 i thought theyd taken control, but yet again
oz got back in it. its a bit like tortoise vs hare, but oz have the ashes and the lead.

mike

On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 6:07:19 PM UTC+1, mike wrote:
> England name unchanged side including the GOAT quick bowler whos
> taken 4 wkts at about 70 with a strike rate of 171 over 3 tests whereas
> i hoped we might get more Tongue. And I think the oval is jimmys least effective ground in the UK, but the weather looks similar to OT. Hopefully there be some play on thursday, friday looks ok, saturday may be disrupted Sunday more promising, monday a complete washout. England have been bigging themselves up in the usual way, but will they walk the walk not
> just talk the talk this time?
>
> mike

Anderson has passed his get rid date and only sentiment is keeping him in the team... RH

On 27/07/2023 21:36, John Hall wrote:
> In message <3c2ac757-9180-4284-8551-6b58f548321fn@googlegroups.com>,
> mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>> On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 7:26:330 >> In message
>> <b57cfa92-7f49-47b3...@googlegroups.com>,
>>> mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>>> >On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 4:17:120 >> On Wednesday, 26 July 2023
>>> >at 18:07:19 UTC+1, mike wrote:
>>> >> > England name unchanged side including the GOAT quick bowler whos
>>> >> > taken 4 wkts at about 70 with a strike rate of 171 over 3 tests
>>> whereas
>>> >> > i hoped we might get more Tongue.
>>> >> Well he's got some handy bowling conditions now we've slapped out way
>>> >>to 270-odd or so. Over to you, Jimmy for another tidy but
>>> >>unthreatening opening spell of 5-3-7-0 ?
>>> >
>>> >4-0-16-0 is distinctly underwhelming. I think this could be 1 test too
>>> >many this summer
>>> >for both jimmy and broad.
>>> I thought that Broad bowled OK.
>>> >
>>> >England seem to think run rate is more important than total runs. Theyr
>>> >about a 100 short.
>>> I didn't think that they were overly reckless, except perhaps Moeen
>>> after his groin strain, when he evidently felt that he was too
>>> handicapped to defend probably, so might as well go for everything. And
>>> it came off for a while. An already gloomy day became even darker during
>>> the afternoon session and the floodlights were turned on and, as often
>>> seems to happen, the ball started swinging and seaming more.
>>
>> yes it was difficult conditions and if oz had held all their catches
>> esp carey off brook when he was 5, england might not have made 200,
>> and oz bowled pretty well. i wonder how they would have batted if
>> england had won the toss and put them in. i suspect it would have
>> been a much slower day with oz 250-5 ish at close, which i'd prefer to
>> 283 all out and 61-1.
>
> My guess is that if Australia had batted they'd have been something like
> 270-8 at the close, assuming England's over rate had been equally
> funereal and that only 80 or so overs were bowled.. But of course
> guessing is all we can do.
>
>>
>> also i remember a story about an england captain who having won 4
>> tosses sent out his vc for the last who duly won again.

The three 5-Test series in which England won all 5 tosses under the same
captain were under Stanley Jackson in the 1905 Ashes, Colin Cowdrey v SA
in 1960, and Joe Root v India in 2018. The reports I've looked at of the
5th Test in each case don't mention a deputy being used.

The only other series in which England won all 5 tosses was in WI in
1959/60, the last two under Cowdrey after Peter May left the tour due to
illness.

>> Perhaps
>> thats not allowed now?
>
> It's probably still allowed,

Law 13.4: "The captains shall toss a coin for the choice of innings ..."

Law 1.3.1: "If at any time the captain is not available, a deputy shall
act for him/her."

So the captain would have to be unavailable, but I'm sure that that
could be arranged.

> but doing so would seem a daft piece of
> superstition. Having won the first four tosses didn't make Stokes any
> less likely - or indeed any more likely - to win the fifth.
>
> <snip>
>>
>> when pope got injured he had to field cos the officials said that if
>> he didnt
>> he wouldnt be able to bat in the 2nd
>
> I think they may have been influenced by his continuing to bat in the
> first innings after being injured.
>
>> and then he injured himself further.
>> so if ali doesnt field tomorrow he wont be able to bat?
>
> I don't know. If that's so it doesn't seem right.
>
>> why did the mcc
>> ban runners? It used to be very entertaining.

Yes, always a good chance of a mix-up, especially if the injured batsman
forgot not to run himself.

> I don't think that's part of the Laws but just a regulation introduced
> by ICC for international matches. I don't know why they decided to do
> that.

"... there has been a strong feeling that runners were used not in the
right spirit," ICC chief Haroon Lorgat said ...

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/icc-annual-conference-runner-rule-was-abused-says-icc-521356

--
David North

In message <kik4jpF5gl0U1@mid.individual.net>, David North
<nospam@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk> writes
<snip>
>The three 5-Test series in which England won all 5 tosses under the
>same captain were under Stanley Jackson in the 1905 Ashes, Colin
>Cowdrey v SA in 1960, and Joe Root v India in 2018. The reports I've
>looked at of the 5th Test in each case don't mention a deputy being used.
>
>The only other series in which England won all 5 tosses was in WI in
>1959/60, the last two under Cowdrey after Peter May left the tour due
>to illness.

So England won 10 tosses in a row (possibly more), which if my mental
arithmetic is right is a one in 1024 chance.
--
John Hall "[It was] so steep that at intervals the street broke into steps,
like a person breaking into giggles or hiccups, and then resumed
its sober climb, until it had another fit of steps."
Ursula K Le Guin "The Beginning Place"

Exciting day to watch and Ali was able to bat, so hopefully he'll
be allowed to bowl if he can, although the weather might render
it all academic. Looks wet tomorrow afternoon and most
of monday. I think i would have declared once they got 350,
and had oz in for 5 overs, but the pundits said the bowlers
might be still tired.

Also tms saltyman was almost beside himself with the stat that
this is the 1st ever test that the 1st 15 balls of a match have been
all scored off.

mike

In message <12454ad0-fadd-4067-99a6-3cd13ca0d056n@googlegroups.com>,
mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>
>Exciting day to watch and Ali was able to bat, so hopefully he'll
>be allowed to bowl if he can,

I'm sure given the state of the pitch that England would like him to
bowl, though how much he'd be able to put into his action might handicap
him. But of course to bowl he'd also have to field, and where to "hide"
him could be a problem.

> although the weather might render
>it all academic. Looks wet tomorrow afternoon and most
>of monday.

Yes, this morning the forecast looks worse than yesterday evening's,
which in turn looked worse than yesterday morning's. It's not quite as
bad as it was for Old Trafford, but it seems to be headed that way.

> I think i would have declared once they got 350,
>and had oz in for 5 overs, but the pundits said the bowlers
>might be still tired.

I might have declared when we were 9 down, which I think would have left
time for one over. It would also have avoided the risk of one of Broad
and Anderson getting injured in a way that would have prevented them
from bowling, which seemed like a non-negligible risk. As it was, Jimmy
got a nasty bruise on his bowling arm.
>
>Also tms saltyman was almost beside himself with the stat that
>this is the 1st ever test that the 1st 15 balls of a match have been
>all scored off.
>
>mike

Of a match or of an innings? That might have happened in England's
second innings, but I didn't think that it did in their first.
--
John Hall "[It was] so steep that at intervals the street broke into steps,
like a person breaking into giggles or hiccups, and then resumed
its sober climb, until it had another fit of steps."
Ursula K Le Guin "The Beginning Place"