Having ridden on a park type railway today where walkers could just wander
along the track at will, it made me wonder what the criteria is for
physical seperation of the PW. Is it running speed, size of rolling
stock, braking ability, or something else? Given 60 tons trams and people
mix on streets I'm guessing its something to do with speed and braking but
anyone know specifically?

On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 15:33:12 -0000 (UTC), muttley@dastardlyhq.com
wrote:

>Having ridden on a park type railway today where walkers could just wander
>along the track at will, it made me wonder what the criteria is for
>physical seperation of the PW. Is it running speed, size of rolling
>stock, braking ability, or something else? Given 60 tons trams and people
>mix on streets I'm guessing its something to do with speed and braking but
>anyone know specifically?
>
Generally speaking, if it isn't a "light railway" or current
equivalent/variation then the standard railway precautions apply.
Otherwise it is what is set in the legislation and other requirements
applicable to individual lines. Previous threads have led to speed
being a common feature (many light railways still carried
trains/vehicles to/from main line railways) with a concentration on
IIRC 25mph but not without further variation related to the features
of individual lines.

On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 19:00:10 +0100, Charles Ellson
<charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 15:33:12 -0000 (UTC), muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>wrote:
>
>>Having ridden on a park type railway today where walkers could just wander
>>along the track at will, it made me wonder what the criteria is for
>>physical seperation of the PW. Is it running speed, size of rolling
>>stock, braking ability, or something else? Given 60 tons trams and people
>>mix on streets I'm guessing its something to do with speed and braking but
>>anyone know specifically?
>>
>Generally speaking, if it isn't a "light railway" or current
>equivalent/variation then the standard railway precautions apply.
>Otherwise it is what is set in the legislation and other requirements
>applicable to individual lines. Previous threads have led to speed
>being a common feature (many light railways still carried
>trains/vehicles to/from main line railways) with a concentration on
>IIRC 25mph but not without further variation related to the features
>of individual lines.

I think OP is asking what is the most significant differentiating
feature between light railways and standard railways.

Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 19:00:10 +0100, Charles Ellson
> <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 15:33:12 -0000 (UTC), muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Having ridden on a park type railway today where walkers could just wander
>>> along the track at will, it made me wonder what the criteria is for
>>> physical seperation of the PW. Is it running speed, size of rolling
>>> stock, braking ability, or something else? Given 60 tons trams and people
>>> mix on streets I'm guessing its something to do with speed and braking but
>>> anyone know specifically?
>>>
>> Generally speaking, if it isn't a "light railway" or current
>> equivalent/variation then the standard railway precautions apply.
>> Otherwise it is what is set in the legislation and other requirements
>> applicable to individual lines. Previous threads have led to speed
>> being a common feature (many light railways still carried
>> trains/vehicles to/from main line railways) with a concentration on
>> IIRC 25mph but not without further variation related to the features
>> of individual lines.
>
> I think OP is asking what is the most significant differentiating
> feature between light railways and standard railways.
>

I thought 'light railways' (like preserved railways) were limited to 25mph,
whereas trams go up to 50mph (or more?). Yet tram stops, even in
segregated sections, allow passengers to freely walk across the tracks,
with no fences or barriers.

On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 20:54:05 +0100, Scott
<newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

>On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 19:00:10 +0100, Charles Ellson
><charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 15:33:12 -0000 (UTC), muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Having ridden on a park type railway today where walkers could just wander
>>>along the track at will, it made me wonder what the criteria is for
>>>physical seperation of the PW. Is it running speed, size of rolling
>>>stock, braking ability, or something else? Given 60 tons trams and people
>>>mix on streets I'm guessing its something to do with speed and braking but
>>>anyone know specifically?
>>>
>>Generally speaking, if it isn't a "light railway" or current
>>equivalent/variation then the standard railway precautions apply.
>>Otherwise it is what is set in the legislation and other requirements
>>applicable to individual lines. Previous threads have led to speed
>>being a common feature (many light railways still carried
>>trains/vehicles to/from main line railways) with a concentration on
>>IIRC 25mph but not without further variation related to the features
>>of individual lines.
>
>I think OP is asking what is the most significant differentiating
>feature between light railways and standard railways.
>
"a concentration on IIRC 25mph" was what I recall from the last time
we flogged the subject to death. Lack of fencing is a common but far
from universal visible feature but much of the difference lies in mode
of use.

On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 22:08:35 +0100, Charles Ellson
<charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 20:54:05 +0100, Scott
><newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 19:00:10 +0100, Charles Ellson
>><charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 15:33:12 -0000 (UTC), muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>Having ridden on a park type railway today where walkers could just wander
>>>>along the track at will, it made me wonder what the criteria is for
>>>>physical seperation of the PW. Is it running speed, size of rolling
>>>>stock, braking ability, or something else? Given 60 tons trams and people
>>>>mix on streets I'm guessing its something to do with speed and braking but
>>>>anyone know specifically?
>>>>
>>>Generally speaking, if it isn't a "light railway" or current
>>>equivalent/variation then the standard railway precautions apply.
>>>Otherwise it is what is set in the legislation and other requirements
>>>applicable to individual lines. Previous threads have led to speed
>>>being a common feature (many light railways still carried
>>>trains/vehicles to/from main line railways) with a concentration on
>>>IIRC 25mph but not without further variation related to the features
>>>of individual lines.
>>
>>I think OP is asking what is the most significant differentiating
>>feature between light railways and standard railways.
>>
>"a concentration on IIRC 25mph" was what I recall from the last time
>we flogged the subject to death. Lack of fencing is a common but far
>from universal visible feature but much of the difference lies in mode
>of use.

In BR days, preserved lines were reopened under a light railways
order, and restricted to 25 mph.

On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 17:01:56 -0500, Christopher A. Lee
<c.lee@fairpoint.net> wrote:

>On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 22:08:35 +0100, Charles Ellson
><charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 20:54:05 +0100, Scott
>><newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 19:00:10 +0100, Charles Ellson
>>><charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 15:33:12 -0000 (UTC), muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Having ridden on a park type railway today where walkers could just wander
>>>>>along the track at will, it made me wonder what the criteria is for
>>>>>physical seperation of the PW. Is it running speed, size of rolling
>>>>>stock, braking ability, or something else? Given 60 tons trams and people
>>>>>mix on streets I'm guessing its something to do with speed and braking but
>>>>>anyone know specifically?
>>>>>
>>>>Generally speaking, if it isn't a "light railway" or current
>>>>equivalent/variation then the standard railway precautions apply.
>>>>Otherwise it is what is set in the legislation and other requirements
>>>>applicable to individual lines. Previous threads have led to speed
>>>>being a common feature (many light railways still carried
>>>>trains/vehicles to/from main line railways) with a concentration on
>>>>IIRC 25mph but not without further variation related to the features
>>>>of individual lines.
>>>
>>>I think OP is asking what is the most significant differentiating
>>>feature between light railways and standard railways.
>>>
>>"a concentration on IIRC 25mph" was what I recall from the last time
>>we flogged the subject to death. Lack of fencing is a common but far
>>from universal visible feature but much of the difference lies in mode
>>of use.
>
>In BR days, preserved lines were reopened under a light railways
>order, and restricted to 25 mph.
>
With the use of existing rolling stock and infrastructure that was
maybe the only "light" requirement that could be applied without
making operation practically impossible.

In message <t3258p$4t6$1@dont-email.me>, at 21:06:33 on Mon, 11 Apr
2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 19:00:10 +0100, Charles Ellson
>> <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 15:33:12 -0000 (UTC), muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Having ridden on a park type railway today where walkers could just wander
>>>> along the track at will, it made me wonder what the criteria is for
>>>> physical seperation of the PW. Is it running speed, size of rolling
>>>> stock, braking ability, or something else? Given 60 tons trams and people
>>>> mix on streets I'm guessing its something to do with speed and braking but
>>>> anyone know specifically?
>>>>
>>> Generally speaking, if it isn't a "light railway" or current
>>> equivalent/variation then the standard railway precautions apply.
>>> Otherwise it is what is set in the legislation and other requirements
>>> applicable to individual lines. Previous threads have led to speed
>>> being a common feature (many light railways still carried
>>> trains/vehicles to/from main line railways) with a concentration on
>>> IIRC 25mph but not without further variation related to the features
>>> of individual lines.
>>
>> I think OP is asking what is the most significant differentiating
>> feature between light railways and standard railways.
>
>I thought 'light railways' (like preserved railways) were limited to 25mph,
>whereas trams go up to 50mph (or more?). Yet tram stops, even in
>segregated sections, allow passengers to freely walk across the tracks,
>with no fences or barriers.

Trams have many safety features to deflect pedestrians rather than crush
them, and when street-running ding their bell frequently.

Wasn't the OP really asking about *miniature* railways like the one at
Longleat?

--
Roland Perry

On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 22:08:35 +0100, Charles Ellson
<charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
[snip]

I think OP needs to rephrase the question.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t3258p$4t6$1@dont-email.me>, at 21:06:33 on Mon, 11 Apr
> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 19:00:10 +0100, Charles Ellson
>>> <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 15:33:12 -0000 (UTC), muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Having ridden on a park type railway today where walkers could just wander
>>>>> along the track at will, it made me wonder what the criteria is for
>>>>> physical seperation of the PW. Is it running speed, size of rolling
>>>>> stock, braking ability, or something else? Given 60 tons trams and people
>>>>> mix on streets I'm guessing its something to do with speed and braking but
>>>>> anyone know specifically?
>>>>>
>>>> Generally speaking, if it isn't a "light railway" or current
>>>> equivalent/variation then the standard railway precautions apply.
>>>> Otherwise it is what is set in the legislation and other requirements
>>>> applicable to individual lines. Previous threads have led to speed
>>>> being a common feature (many light railways still carried
>>>> trains/vehicles to/from main line railways) with a concentration on
>>>> IIRC 25mph but not without further variation related to the features
>>>> of individual lines.
>>>
>>> I think OP is asking what is the most significant differentiating
>>> feature between light railways and standard railways.
>>
>> I thought 'light railways' (like preserved railways) were limited to 25mph,
>> whereas trams go up to 50mph (or more?). Yet tram stops, even in
>> segregated sections, allow passengers to freely walk across the tracks,
>> with no fences or barriers.
>
> Trams have many safety features to deflect pedestrians rather than crush
> them, and when street-running ding their bell frequently.
>
> Wasn't the OP really asking about *miniature* railways like the one at
> Longleat?
>

Well, Neil asked: "Is it running speed, size of rolling stock, braking
ability, or something else? Given 60 tons trams and people mix on streets
I'm guessing its something to do with speed and braking but anyone know
specifically?"

In message <t33dvg$3cg$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:41:20 on Tue, 12 Apr
2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t3258p$4t6$1@dont-email.me>, at 21:06:33 on Mon, 11 Apr
>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 19:00:10 +0100, Charles Ellson
>>>> <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 15:33:12 -0000 (UTC), muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Having ridden on a park type railway today where walkers could
>>>>>>just wander
>>>>>> along the track at will, it made me wonder what the criteria is for
>>>>>> physical seperation of the PW. Is it running speed, size of rolling
>>>>>> stock, braking ability, or something else? Given 60 tons trams and people
>>>>>> mix on streets I'm guessing its something to do with speed and
>>>>>>braking but
>>>>>> anyone know specifically?
>>>>>>
>>>>> Generally speaking, if it isn't a "light railway" or current
>>>>> equivalent/variation then the standard railway precautions apply.
>>>>> Otherwise it is what is set in the legislation and other requirements
>>>>> applicable to individual lines. Previous threads have led to speed
>>>>> being a common feature (many light railways still carried
>>>>> trains/vehicles to/from main line railways) with a concentration on
>>>>> IIRC 25mph but not without further variation related to the features
>>>>> of individual lines.
>>>>
>>>> I think OP is asking what is the most significant differentiating
>>>> feature between light railways and standard railways.
>>>
>>> I thought 'light railways' (like preserved railways) were limited to 25mph,
>>> whereas trams go up to 50mph (or more?). Yet tram stops, even in
>>> segregated sections, allow passengers to freely walk across the tracks,
>>> with no fences or barriers.
>>
>> Trams have many safety features to deflect pedestrians rather than crush
>> them, and when street-running ding their bell frequently.
>>
>> Wasn't the OP really asking about *miniature* railways like the one at
>> Longleat?
>
>Well, Neil asked: "Is it running speed, size of rolling stock, braking
>ability, or something else? Given 60 tons trams and people mix on streets
>I'm guessing its something to do with speed and braking but anyone know
>specifically?"

And: "Having ridden on a park type railway today where walkers could
just wander along the track at will, it made me wonder what the criteria
is for physical seperation of the PW."
--
Roland Perry

Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 17:01:56 -0500, Christopher A. Lee

>>
>> In BR days, preserved lines were reopened under a light railways
>> order, and restricted to 25 mph.
>>
> With the use of existing rolling stock and infrastructure that was
> maybe the only "light" requirement that could be applied without
> making operation practically impossible.
>

I was trying to find the criteria for the Fawley Branch which was
promoted and got its act as the
The Totton,Hythe and Fawley Light Railway though it soon passed to the
LSWR with construction
and opening in 1925 being accomplished under the Southern.
Over the years the traffic was anything but light with heavy trains to and
from the refinery, the amount of level crossings most ungated seems to be
the main feature that was utilised from Light Railway practise.
They became AHB in later years , it will be interesting if the proposal to
reopen the line succeeds wether they remain so or have to be upgraded.

I did come across this list of Light Railway legislation in Hansard in
answer to the MP Robert Adley
who was well known for being pro Rail* and sensible public transport
despite being a Conservative,
sadly he died young.

<https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/written-answers/1982/jul/29/light-railway-orders>

Covering the period from the 1970’s to 1980’s it covers much of the lines
transferred to the heritage movement but not exclusively. There are quite a
large number of amendments that BR ,NCB, and other operators have
submitted for their operations.

Any one know what set up the The Conwy Mussel Fishery (Jetty Hoist) Light
Railway Order
referred to?

* He even repurposed a level crossing gate from the Lymington branch IIRC
as the gate for his home.
GH

On Tue, 12 Apr 2022 09:23:03 +0100, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

>On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 22:08:35 +0100, Charles Ellson
><charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>[snip]
>
>I think OP needs to rephrase the question.

I suppose the distilled question is, "Why are passengers allowed to walk across tram tracks, but not light railway
tracks?".

On 12/04/2022 12:11, Recliner wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Apr 2022 09:23:03 +0100, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 22:08:35 +0100, Charles Ellson
>> <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> [snip]
>>
>> I think OP needs to rephrase the question.
>
> I suppose the distilled question is, "Why are passengers allowed to walk across tram tracks, but not light railway
> tracks?".

Because trams usually run on roads, and pedestrians are allowed to walk
across roads (and along them, even at level crossings). Light railways
generally seem to be fenced, perhaps because they used to be heavy rail.

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Apr 2022 09:23:03 +0100, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 22:08:35 +0100, Charles Ellson
>> <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> [snip]
>>
>> I think OP needs to rephrase the question.
>
> I suppose the distilled question is, "Why are passengers allowed to walk
> across tram tracks, but not light railway
> tracks?".
>

It’s probably slightly more complex than that. This place has a train:

<http://www.eastlinks.co.uk/>
<https://goo.gl/maps/hHmicsUZTCL9a2rj6>

but the track is completely segregated and fenced except for two (or
three?) places, either side of the single station, where footways cross the
track. There is no protection for pedestrians except for the train
announcing its presence, but there are partial fences and no entry signs
for pedestrians at the crossings.

So this is probably a light railway - it’s certainly not a tram - but
pedestrians are allowed to walk across the tracks at certain, well
specified points, with no gates and no warning other than the train’s
whistle.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Certes <none@nowhere.net> wrote:
> On 12/04/2022 12:11, Recliner wrote:
>> On Tue, 12 Apr 2022 09:23:03 +0100, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 22:08:35 +0100, Charles Ellson
>>> <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>> I think OP needs to rephrase the question.
>>
>> I suppose the distilled question is, "Why are passengers allowed to walk
>> across tram tracks, but not light railway
>> tracks?".
>
> Because trams usually run on roads, and pedestrians are allowed to walk
> across roads (and along them, even at level crossings). Light railways
> generally seem to be fenced, perhaps because they used to be heavy rail.
>

Not all 'light railways' used to be heavy rail, of course.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

On Tue, 12 Apr 2022 12:11:46 +0100, Recliner
<recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 12 Apr 2022 09:23:03 +0100, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 22:08:35 +0100, Charles Ellson
>><charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>[snip]
>>
>>I think OP needs to rephrase the question.
>
>I suppose the distilled question is, "Why are passengers allowed to walk across tram tracks, but not light railway
>tracks?".

I don't think the question was restricted to trams and light rail. OP
refers to a 'park type railway'.

On Tue, 12 Apr 2022 12:18:36 +0100, Certes <none@nowhere.net> wrote:

>On 12/04/2022 12:11, Recliner wrote:
>> On Tue, 12 Apr 2022 09:23:03 +0100, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 22:08:35 +0100, Charles Ellson
>>> <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>> I think OP needs to rephrase the question.
>>
>> I suppose the distilled question is, "Why are passengers allowed to walk across tram tracks, but not light railway
>> tracks?".
>
>Because trams usually run on roads, and pedestrians are allowed to walk
>across roads (and along them, even at level crossings). Light railways
>generally seem to be fenced, perhaps because they used to be heavy rail.

This is a circular argument. Pedestrians are allowed because trams
run on roads. But on what basis are the trams allowed to run on a
road? The question seems to be: what are the defining criteria?

On Tue, 12 Apr 2022 11:30:24 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
<ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:

>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 12 Apr 2022 09:23:03 +0100, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 22:08:35 +0100, Charles Ellson
>>> <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>> I think OP needs to rephrase the question.
>>
>> I suppose the distilled question is, "Why are passengers allowed to walk
>> across tram tracks, but not light railway
>> tracks?".
>>
>
>It’s probably slightly more complex than that. This place has a train:
>
><http://www.eastlinks.co.uk/>
><https://goo.gl/maps/hHmicsUZTCL9a2rj6>
>
>but the track is completely segregated and fenced except for two (or
>three?) places, either side of the single station, where footways cross the
>track. There is no protection for pedestrians except for the train
>announcing its presence, but there are partial fences and no entry signs
>for pedestrians at the crossings.
>
>So this is probably a light railway - it’s certainly not a tram - but
>pedestrians are allowed to walk across the tracks at certain, well
>specified points, with no gates and no warning other than the train’s
>whistle.
>
Are there any national rail stations where passengers can cross the
tracks? I certainly remember this from the past.

On Tue, 12 Apr 2022 00:37:27 +0100, Charles Ellson
<charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 17:01:56 -0500, Christopher A. Lee
><c.lee@fairpoint.net> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 22:08:35 +0100, Charles Ellson
>><charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 20:54:05 +0100, Scott
>>><newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 19:00:10 +0100, Charles Ellson
>>>><charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 15:33:12 -0000 (UTC), muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Having ridden on a park type railway today where walkers could just wander
>>>>>>along the track at will, it made me wonder what the criteria is for
>>>>>>physical seperation of the PW. Is it running speed, size of rolling
>>>>>>stock, braking ability, or something else? Given 60 tons trams and people
>>>>>>mix on streets I'm guessing its something to do with speed and braking but
>>>>>>anyone know specifically?
>>>>>>
>>>>>Generally speaking, if it isn't a "light railway" or current
>>>>>equivalent/variation then the standard railway precautions apply.
>>>>>Otherwise it is what is set in the legislation and other requirements
>>>>>applicable to individual lines. Previous threads have led to speed
>>>>>being a common feature (many light railways still carried
>>>>>trains/vehicles to/from main line railways) with a concentration on
>>>>>IIRC 25mph but not without further variation related to the features
>>>>>of individual lines.
>>>>
>>>>I think OP is asking what is the most significant differentiating
>>>>feature between light railways and standard railways.
>>>>
>>>"a concentration on IIRC 25mph" was what I recall from the last time
>>>we flogged the subject to death. Lack of fencing is a common but far
>>>from universal visible feature but much of the difference lies in mode
>>>of use.
>>
>>In BR days, preserved lines were reopened under a light railways
>>order, and restricted to 25 mph.
>>
>With the use of existing rolling stock and infrastructure that was
>maybe the only "light" requirement that could be applied without
>making operation practically impossible.

It was a lot easier and less time consuming time consuming than going
through the bureacratic hoops than reopening as heavy rail.

On Tue, 12 Apr 2022 12:47:46 +0100, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

>On Tue, 12 Apr 2022 12:18:36 +0100, Certes <none@nowhere.net> wrote:
>
>>On 12/04/2022 12:11, Recliner wrote:
>>> On Tue, 12 Apr 2022 09:23:03 +0100, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 22:08:35 +0100, Charles Ellson
>>>> <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>> [snip]
>>>>
>>>> I think OP needs to rephrase the question.
>>>
>>> I suppose the distilled question is, "Why are passengers allowed to walk across tram tracks, but not light railway
>>> tracks?".
>>
>>Because trams usually run on roads, and pedestrians are allowed to walk
>>across roads (and along them, even at level crossings). Light railways
>>generally seem to be fenced, perhaps because they used to be heavy rail.
>
>This is a circular argument. Pedestrians are allowed because trams
>run on roads. But on what basis are the trams allowed to run on a
>road? The question seems to be: what are the defining criteria?

Trams in the UK usually run much more on segregated track than roads, and they usually run faster on such sections. But
passengers can still walk across the tracks, particularly at stops.

On 12/04/2022 12:49, Scott wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Apr 2022 11:30:24 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
> <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 12 Apr 2022 09:23:03 +0100, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 22:08:35 +0100, Charles Ellson
>>>> <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>> [snip]
>>>>
>>>> I think OP needs to rephrase the question.
>>>
>>> I suppose the distilled question is, "Why are passengers allowed to walk
>>> across tram tracks, but not light railway
>>> tracks?".
>>>
>>
>> It’s probably slightly more complex than that. This place has a train:
>>
>> <http://www.eastlinks.co.uk/>
>> <https://goo.gl/maps/hHmicsUZTCL9a2rj6>
>>
>> but the track is completely segregated and fenced except for two (or
>> three?) places, either side of the single station, where footways cross the
>> track. There is no protection for pedestrians except for the train
>> announcing its presence, but there are partial fences and no entry signs
>> for pedestrians at the crossings.
>>
>> So this is probably a light railway - it’s certainly not a tram - but
>> pedestrians are allowed to walk across the tracks at certain, well
>> specified points, with no gates and no warning other than the train’s
>> whistle.
>>
> Are there any national rail stations where passengers can cross the
> tracks? I certainly remember this from the past.

They're getting rarer. This barrow crossing at Horton-in-Ribblesdale,
part of a public footpath, is planned for replacement by a bridge.
<https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations_destinations/HotspotDetails.aspx?stdCode=SME_HIR&fullsize=89418>

Of course, many stations are adjacent to a level crossing controlled in
one of the usual ways.

Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Apr 2022 11:30:24 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
> <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 12 Apr 2022 09:23:03 +0100, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 22:08:35 +0100, Charles Ellson
>>>> <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>> [snip]
>>>>
>>>> I think OP needs to rephrase the question.
>>>
>>> I suppose the distilled question is, "Why are passengers allowed to walk
>>> across tram tracks, but not light railway
>>> tracks?".
>>>
>>
>> It’s probably slightly more complex than that. This place has a train:
>>
>> <http://www.eastlinks.co.uk/>
>> <https://goo.gl/maps/hHmicsUZTCL9a2rj6>
>>
>> but the track is completely segregated and fenced except for two (or
>> three?) places, either side of the single station, where footways cross the
>> track. There is no protection for pedestrians except for the train
>> announcing its presence, but there are partial fences and no entry signs
>> for pedestrians at the crossings.
>>
>> So this is probably a light railway - it’s certainly not a tram - but
>> pedestrians are allowed to walk across the tracks at certain, well
>> specified points, with no gates and no warning other than the train’s
>> whistle.
>>
> Are there any national rail stations where passengers can cross the
> tracks? I certainly remember this from the past.

There certainly used to be barrow crossings with white lights and boards
saying you could only cross when the light was on. I don’t know if any of
the more remote stations with road access only to one platform still have
such. I wondered about Dalwhinnie, but while it has a footbridge I don’t
see any sign of any other way across the tracks, and NationalRail says
there’s only step-free access to platform 1. Arisaig is more interesting -
step free access: NO, but there is “rough ground and barrow crossing to
platform 2”. There are probably others.

<https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations/ARG/details.html>

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

In message <copa5h558kr2kcrp5onqtc2gb4nh6ei649@4ax.com>, at 12:49:05 on
Tue, 12 Apr 2022, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
>On Tue, 12 Apr 2022 11:30:24 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
><ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 12 Apr 2022 09:23:03 +0100, Scott
>>><newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 22:08:35 +0100, Charles Ellson
>>>> <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>> [snip]
>>>>
>>>> I think OP needs to rephrase the question.
>>>
>>> I suppose the distilled question is, "Why are passengers allowed to walk
>>> across tram tracks, but not light railway
>>> tracks?".
>>
>>It’s probably slightly more complex than that. This place has a train:
>>
>><http://www.eastlinks.co.uk/>
>><https://goo.gl/maps/hHmicsUZTCL9a2rj6>
>>
>>but the track is completely segregated and fenced except for two (or
>>three?) places, either side of the single station, where footways cross the
>>track. There is no protection for pedestrians except for the train
>>announcing its presence, but there are partial fences and no entry signs
>>for pedestrians at the crossings.
>>
>>So this is probably a light railway - it’s certainly not a tram - but
>>pedestrians are allowed to walk across the tracks at certain, well
>>specified points, with no gates and no warning other than the train’s
>>whistle.
>>
>Are there any national rail stations where passengers can cross the
>tracks? I certainly remember this from the past.

Yes, barrow crossings are fairly common.

At Littleport it was the only way to reach the Up platform, until they
rebuilt the station a year ago.

It's probably still the only way to get to the eastbound platform at
Bottesford.

I don't know if they've closed the barrow crossing at Grantham, but
before they added lifts to the overbridge, it was the only way that pax
in wheelchairs could cross the ECML to/from the island (down) platform.
--
Roland Perry

Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Apr 2022 11:30:24 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
> <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 12 Apr 2022 09:23:03 +0100, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 22:08:35 +0100, Charles Ellson
>>>> <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>> [snip]
>>>>
>>>> I think OP needs to rephrase the question.
>>>
>>> I suppose the distilled question is, "Why are passengers allowed to walk
>>> across tram tracks, but not light railway
>>> tracks?".
>>>
>>
>> It’s probably slightly more complex than that. This place has a train:
>>
>> <http://www.eastlinks.co.uk/>
>> <https://goo.gl/maps/hHmicsUZTCL9a2rj6>
>>
>> but the track is completely segregated and fenced except for two (or
>> three?) places, either side of the single station, where footways cross the
>> track. There is no protection for pedestrians except for the train
>> announcing its presence, but there are partial fences and no entry signs
>> for pedestrians at the crossings.
>>
>> So this is probably a light railway - it’s certainly not a tram - but
>> pedestrians are allowed to walk across the tracks at certain, well
>> specified points, with no gates and no warning other than the train’s
>> whistle.
>>
> Are there any national rail stations where passengers can cross the
> tracks? I certainly remember this from the past.
>

Yes, on a barrow crossing at the end of the platforms, with AIUI signage
the same as any other foot crossing. I'm pretty sure they're being phased
out where possible, though.

Anna Noyd-Dryver