I was listening to a radio station yesterday and heard the presenter after
playing Brenda Lees Christmas song from yeas ago - It was her Birthday- and
he said it was once again high in the charts.
I'm guessing that this is downloads, which of course unless you want to be
able to have it on physical media, is only going to be on subscription, like
Amazon, Apple etc. So what is the point in charts? Which streaming or
download platform are used and all that. It does seem all a little
artificial, as you are not in the main buying just one track, you are hiring
an on line system to get anything you fancy any time.
How do the finances work for the writers and artists?
Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!

On 2023-12-12, Brian Gaff <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote:
> I was listening to a radio station yesterday and heard the presenter after
> playing Brenda Lees Christmas song from yeas ago - It was her Birthday- and
> he said it was once again high in the charts.
> I'm guessing that this is downloads, which of course unless you want to be
> able to have it on physical media, is only going to be on subscription, like
> Amazon, Apple etc. So what is the point in charts? Which streaming or
> download platform are used and all that. It does seem all a little
> artificial, as you are not in the main buying just one track, you are hiring
> an on line system to get anything you fancy any time.
> How do the finances work for the writers and artists?
> Brian
>

This has all been in chaos for years, AFAIK. and anyway, the charts have
always been fiddled.

I get up in the morning, and play my favourite tunes from years ago on
UTube. On the radio, you listen to what THEY want you to hear. Its kinda
like the difference between IRC and Zoom.

--
greymausg@mail.com
Death to the Influencers, hung, drawn and quartered is more than they deserve.
BringBack(Bonking)Boris..

On 12/12/2023 08:49, Brian Gaff wrote:
> I was listening to a radio station yesterday and heard the presenter after
> playing Brenda Lees Christmas song from yeas ago - It was her Birthday- and
> he said it was once again high in the charts.
> I'm guessing that this is downloads, which of course unless you want to be
> able to have it on physical media, is only going to be on subscription, like
> Amazon, Apple etc. So what is the point in charts? Which streaming or
> download platform are used and all that. It does seem all a little
> artificial, as you are not in the main buying just one track, you are hiring
> an on line system to get anything you fancy any time.
> How do the finances work for the writers and artists?
> Brian
>

No 1 in the US. Longest time between release, 1958 and Billboard No 1.

--
Chris Elvidge, England
I WILL NOT FAKE RABIES

Chris Elvidge said:
> On 12/12/2023 08:49, Brian Gaff wrote:
>> I was listening to a radio station yesterday and heard the presenter after
>> playing Brenda Lees Christmas song from yeas ago - It was her Birthday- and
>> he said it was once again high in the charts.
>> I'm guessing that this is downloads, which of course unless you want to be
>> able to have it on physical media, is only going to be on subscription, like
>> Amazon, Apple etc. So what is the point in charts? Which streaming or
>> download platform are used and all that. It does seem all a little
>> artificial, as you are not in the main buying just one track, you are hiring
>> an on line system to get anything you fancy any time.

It's the responsibility of the streaming server in question to sort out
the royalties.

>> How do the finances work for the writers and artists?

They don't even get peanuts, they get an infinitesimally small fraction
of a single very small peanut, per play.

I asked someone who has some stuff out there, once. I unforget hearing
of .004p for a play. I forgot to ask, but I doubt a normal bank account
would take such sums, I guess you'd have to pay an agency to deal with
them ...

As to "the point of charts"; people'll buy stuff if they're told
other people are.

--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

Yes, well in the days when radio was all we had, it was a way for one person
to make others aware of what they considered a good track, which is why
radio stations tended to play charts. I notice with interest that new
stations like Boom seem not to use hard and fast playlists any more, either
taking requests or leaving it up to the presenters, so you get full versions
of American Pie or Lyin Eyes instead of the radio edits you hear on smooth
and all that lot.
I subscribe to Amazon music on one device, which is goiing up by a quid
next month, and if you want an analogue copy you can easily do that, but no
digital copy unless you buy an album or whatever.

I did wonder if this pittance that the creators get is why you see so many
outfits doing concerts nowadays for very high costs to the punter. I think
Dolly Parton made some comment about the fact that she had hoped all her
songs would be like children to keep her going when she was grey and old,
but I guess not so much now. She can quip that at my age its expensive to
look this cheap, but it also is probably why so many artists are selling
their back catalogue for a lump sum to companies and at least then, they
have the money.

Its also intriguing to see Beatles music being remixed and sounding
actually better than modern music recordings do at the moment. Maybe the
simpler ways of recording back then, with few digital effects used, simply
is better merely because its not over processed.
Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Richard Robinson" <richard@qualmograph.org.uk> wrote in message
news:ula1hq$3nho7$1@dont-email.me...
> Chris Elvidge said:
>> On 12/12/2023 08:49, Brian Gaff wrote:
>>> I was listening to a radio station yesterday and heard the presenter
>>> after
>>> playing Brenda Lees Christmas song from yeas ago - It was her Birthday-
>>> and
>>> he said it was once again high in the charts.
>>> I'm guessing that this is downloads, which of course unless you want
>>> to be
>>> able to have it on physical media, is only going to be on subscription,
>>> like
>>> Amazon, Apple etc. So what is the point in charts? Which streaming or
>>> download platform are used and all that. It does seem all a little
>>> artificial, as you are not in the main buying just one track, you are
>>> hiring
>>> an on line system to get anything you fancy any time.
>
> It's the responsibility of the streaming server in question to sort out
> the royalties.
>
>>> How do the finances work for the writers and artists?
>
> They don't even get peanuts, they get an infinitesimally small fraction
> of a single very small peanut, per play.
>
> I asked someone who has some stuff out there, once. I unforget hearing
> of .004p for a play. I forgot to ask, but I doubt a normal bank account
> would take such sums, I guess you'd have to pay an agency to deal with
> them ...
>
>
> As to "the point of charts"; people'll buy stuff if they're told
> other people are.
>
>
>
> --
> Richard Robinson
> "The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem
>
> My email address is at http://qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

On 13/12/2023 10:15, Brian Gaff wrote:
> Its also intriguing to see Beatles music being remixed and sounding
> actually better than modern music recordings do at the moment. Maybe the
> simpler ways of recording back then, with few digital effects used, simply
> is better merely because its not over processed.
> Brian

Totally agree, Brian.

Any bad singer can be processed to sound better (nearly said 'good', but
that wouldn't be true). OTOH it takes guts to pick up a guitar and sing
live in a pub with just an amp and maybe a bit of reverb. And if you are
good enough to get folks' attention, then you are probably good enough
for radio. But the mainstream stations are unlikely to give you a look-in.

I get about 200 tracks submitted to me every week. Of course I only get
time to listen to about a quarter of them, and if they don't grab me in
the first ten seconds then they are gone. However, I do favour
independent artists. Rarely do 'pop' tracks even get looked at.

Daz In The Hat Radio (out of Bradford) is a new not-for-profit online
station trying to give air time to independents all over the world.

The day schedule is repeated each night to suite time zones elsewhere,
which is a good idea.

Darren is also looking for new presenters of any genre jbexing from
home, if any sheddi fancy it? Experience unnecessary.

dazinthehat.com

Tone

Yes Boom started as Internet and basically its mainly people from the past.
However they do play some modern stuff. I think the problem with modern
recording is that although artists do not or may not need processing they et
it and lots of compression. I actually like the latest Dolly Parton
colaborations with rock folk but it is compressed towithin an inch of its
life, in common with many others, even Michael Bubble. These people don't
need autochoral effects etc, but they get them anyway. Maybe its just a
trend and it will swing the other way. Interesting that the Abba Voyage
album is not compressed in that zero tolerance way.

I find that you can listen to Mushroom FM and soon tell what is recorded
with mega compression and what is not, because although they have to process
it, its never pumping like some modern recordings do. In many ways modern
recordings are like the very old demos. Go now for instance was clearly
compressed and recorded in a hurry.
A lot of Phil Spectrors stuff was definitely compressed. Which reminds me,
am I the only person with a stereo copy of a Christmas Gift for you.

Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Hymermut" <tone@email.com> wrote in message
news:ulc4mf$4m7o$1@dont-email.me...
> On 13/12/2023 10:15, Brian Gaff wrote:
>> Its also intriguing to see Beatles music being remixed and sounding
>> actually better than modern music recordings do at the moment. Maybe the
>> simpler ways of recording back then, with few digital effects used,
>> simply
>> is better merely because its not over processed.
>> Brian
>
> Totally agree, Brian.
>
> Any bad singer can be processed to sound better (nearly said 'good', but
> that wouldn't be true). OTOH it takes guts to pick up a guitar and sing
> live in a pub with just an amp and maybe a bit of reverb. And if you are
> good enough to get folks' attention, then you are probably good enough for
> radio. But the mainstream stations are unlikely to give you a look-in.
>
> I get about 200 tracks submitted to me every week. Of course I only get
> time to listen to about a quarter of them, and if they don't grab me in
> the first ten seconds then they are gone. However, I do favour independent
> artists. Rarely do 'pop' tracks even get looked at.
>
> Daz In The Hat Radio (out of Bradford) is a new not-for-profit online
> station trying to give air time to independents all over the world.
>
> The day schedule is repeated each night to suite time zones elsewhere,
> which is a good idea.
>
> Darren is also looking for new presenters of any genre jbexing from home,
> if any sheddi fancy it? Experience unnecessary.
>
> dazinthehat.com
>
> Tone

On 14/12/2023 09:17, Brian Gaff wrote:

> A lot of Phil Spectrors stuff was definitely compressed. Which reminds me,
> am I the only person with a stereo copy of a Christmas Gift for you.
>
The Wall of Sound stuff wasn't compressed much if at all, he actually
had a studio full of musicians, hence the Wall of Sound nickname. "Be My
Baby" had 36 musicians all bouncing off each other. The musical style he
called for almost constant volume, set to 10. There was a dodgy echo
chamber connected to the studio, which was about the only effect he
used. The chorus affect on the vocals was a chorus. There were three
pianos in the studio, and a load of chest high isolation booths in the
studio for instrumentalists.

His later stuff used fewer musicians and may have been compressed, if
not by him, by the radio stations in the Loudness Wars. By them, you
could get a decent compressor to use in the studio, so there was no need
for the Wall of Sound.

This video is a talking head interview with recordings of stage
performances, so all you will lose is pictures of extremely crowded
studios and concert stages.

https://youtu.be/LRmRBrnQq8o

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 09:17:26 -0000
"Brian Gaff" <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote:

> However they do play some modern stuff. I think the problem with modern
> recording is that although artists do not or may not need processing they
> et it and lots of compression.

The thing with compression is that the more you apply to the
analogue the more compressible the resulting digital is with things like mp3
and aac which translates to lower bandwidth use for streaming.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Host: Beautiful Theory meet Inconvenient Fact
Obit: Beautiful Theory died today of factual inconsistency

On 14/12/2023 09:17, Brian Gaff wrote:
> Yes Boom started as Internet and basically its mainly people from the past.
> However they do play some modern stuff. I think the problem with modern
> recording is that although artists do not or may not need processing they et
> it and lots of compression. I actually like the latest Dolly Parton
> colaborations with rock folk but it is compressed towithin an inch of its
> life, in common with many others, even Michael Bubble. These people don't
> need autochoral effects etc, but they get them anyway. Maybe its just a
> trend and it will swing the other way. Interesting that the Abba Voyage
> album is not compressed in that zero tolerance way.
>
> I find that you can listen to Mushroom FM and soon tell what is recorded
> with mega compression and what is not, because although they have to process
> it, its never pumping like some modern recordings do. In many ways modern
> recordings are like the very old demos. Go now for instance was clearly
> compressed and recorded in a hurry.
> A lot of Phil Spectrors stuff was definitely compressed. Which reminds me,
> am I the only person with a stereo copy of a Christmas Gift for you.
>
> Brian
>

I've got it here (UK, mp3). I think (hope) the disk is in Spain.

I listen to Boom on the 128 stream -
https://listen-boomradio.sharp-stream.com/65_boom_radio_live_128. I find
the 192 stream distorts at intervals.

--
Chris Elvidge, England
I WILL NOT RE-TRANSMIT WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF MAJOR LEAGUE
BASEBALL

Don't know about which stream it uses, but Alexa sounds pretty good on Boom,
Mushroom, but the main stations like Smooth and Magic and Radio 2 sound very
peculiar at times.
In the case of Phil Spector, You can hear compression on the recent remixes
by Sony, but they are still mono. OK I know he used to give everyone he met
Back to Mono badges, but he is dead now and in the end his paranoia got him
in clink. If you hear some of his rants in the John Lennon recording
outtakes, the guy was a complete nutter.
Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Chris Elvidge" <chris@mshome.net> wrote in message
news:ulf9gn$1er3c$1@dont-email.me...
> On 14/12/2023 09:17, Brian Gaff wrote:
>> Yes Boom started as Internet and basically its mainly people from the
>> past.
>> However they do play some modern stuff. I think the problem with modern
>> recording is that although artists do not or may not need processing they
>> et
>> it and lots of compression. I actually like the latest Dolly Parton
>> colaborations with rock folk but it is compressed towithin an inch of its
>> life, in common with many others, even Michael Bubble. These people don't
>> need autochoral effects etc, but they get them anyway. Maybe its just a
>> trend and it will swing the other way. Interesting that the Abba Voyage
>> album is not compressed in that zero tolerance way.
>>
>> I find that you can listen to Mushroom FM and soon tell what is recorded
>> with mega compression and what is not, because although they have to
>> process
>> it, its never pumping like some modern recordings do. In many ways modern
>> recordings are like the very old demos. Go now for instance was clearly
>> compressed and recorded in a hurry.
>> A lot of Phil Spectrors stuff was definitely compressed. Which reminds
>> me,
>> am I the only person with a stereo copy of a Christmas Gift for you.
>>
>> Brian
>>
>
> I've got it here (UK, mp3). I think (hope) the disk is in Spain.
>
> I listen to Boom on the 128 stream -
> https://listen-boomradio.sharp-stream.com/65_boom_radio_live_128. I find
> the 192 stream distorts at intervals.
>
>
> --
> Chris Elvidge, England
> I WILL NOT RE-TRANSMIT WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF MAJOR LEAGUE
> BASEBALL

On 15/12/2023 11:12, Brian Gaff wrote:
> Don't know about which stream it uses, but Alexa sounds pretty good on Boom,
> Mushroom, but the main stations like Smooth and Magic and Radio 2 sound very
> peculiar at times.

One of my major problems on every station that I have worked with
(except DazintheHat.com though you might get some volume variance
there.) is the transmitter compressor. I've never had a station yet
willing to switch it off in my shows. It might make some pop numbers
sound more 'punchy', but it makes a sensitive folk song sound boodly awful.

The current one on Tempo FM is so bad that an intake of breath wooshes
as loud as the vocals. And you know that string scratching noise when
some guitarists move their fingers along the strings, changing chords*?
Terrible! It's the same on their online transmission.

All my shows uploaded to Mixcloud after transmission are as recorded
from source, so no compression.

https://www.mixcloud.com/tonyhaynes52/

*Gordon Giltrap says it is laziness! He lifts his fingers off the
strings when changing chords.

Tone

Yes I don't see any need for mega compression on an internet stream, just
something to stop digital clipping, but I suppose its easier to use one size
fits all. The Internet stream from Caroline available through smart tvs is
truly awful.
I imagine a lot of stations use a badly set up optimod. Seems strange that
an entertainment media company should care so little of how their output
sounds. No they won't turn this off either. They say it goes further on fm
if its like that, but that should not be applied to digital, but sadly
nowadays it is.
As I say when you add this to the nasty processing you get on albums now
its unlisternable..
Cast your mind back to the first Album by The Shires, it sounded good. They
then recorded some in Nashville and it sounded absolutely terrible with
artificially raised treble and k a kind of no dynamic range and pumping
effect. It may well cut through the noise on a building site or traffic, but
listen in the living room to it and I find it un-listenable, no matter how
good the song is.
Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Hymermut" <tone@email.com> wrote in message
news:ulhdso$1smvp$1@dont-email.me...
> On 15/12/2023 11:12, Brian Gaff wrote:
>> Don't know about which stream it uses, but Alexa sounds pretty good on
>> Boom,
>> Mushroom, but the main stations like Smooth and Magic and Radio 2 sound
>> very
>> peculiar at times.
>
> One of my major problems on every station that I have worked with (except
> DazintheHat.com though you might get some volume variance there.) is the
> transmitter compressor. I've never had a station yet willing to switch it
> off in my shows. It might make some pop numbers sound more 'punchy', but
> it makes a sensitive folk song sound boodly awful.
>
> The current one on Tempo FM is so bad that an intake of breath wooshes as
> loud as the vocals. And you know that string scratching noise when some
> guitarists move their fingers along the strings, changing chords*?
> Terrible! It's the same on their online transmission.
>
> All my shows uploaded to Mixcloud after transmission are as recorded from
> source, so no compression.
>
> https://www.mixcloud.com/tonyhaynes52/
>
> *Gordon Giltrap says it is laziness! He lifts his fingers off the strings
> when changing chords.
>
> Tone
>
>