On 11/10/2023 9:31 am, jonz@ nothere.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, 10 October 2023 at 19:34:53 UTC+11, Noddy wrote:
>> On 10/10/2023 1:14 pm, jonz@ nothere.com wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, 10 October 2023 at 13:00:51 UTC+11, Noddy wrote:
>>>> On 10/10/2023 12:44 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>>> On 10/10/2023 11:31 am, Noddy wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> I did indeed. The wife went into town for a boozy lunch and I picked
>>>>>> her up from the train station around 5'ish. Took the truck for a drive
>>>>>> into town and saw them as I went past.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The green 32 Ford coupe there was delicious :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Very nice, the Customline ?? being a 2 door was interesting.
>>>> It was a lovely car:
>>>>
>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEPED6X
>>>>
>>>> A 1953 Victoria. I didn't care for the colour as I don't think it suited
>>>> it, but the car was immaculate and the right hand drive conversion
>>>> looked awesome
>>
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>> Nice, but where`s the '32`. :(
>> Follow up:
>>
>> Not my phone being flakey, but the app on my PC that connects to it.
>> Here's the pic here:
>>
>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEPEJDF
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Got it!. Love the colour, looks like it's had a little chop,? but otherwise left alone!. When can I pick it up?????. ;)

LOL, it was parked outside the Bacchus Marsh RSL on Saturday afternoon
but its gone now, you weren't quick enough:-)

--
Daryl

On 11/10/2023 7:13 am, Mighty Mouse wrote:

> I find that generally ppl who are less technically competent prefer
> iphones, Xeno being an exception.

ROTFL :)

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 11/10/2023 7:00 am, Mighty Mouse wrote:
> Noddy wrote:
>> On 11/10/2023 6:44 am, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>>> Mighty Mouse wrote:
>>
>>>> I haven't been able to see this yet it won't load  :(
>>
>> Don't worry Felix. I've changed to a new image hosting service. Just
>> for you.
>
> such an honor and privilege. I shall be forever grateful
>
>> Here. Have a test sample:
>>
>>> https://ibb.co/album/dwZN18
>>
>> Is that any better?
>
> much better!
>

Rebuild practice for the next time... after detonating going around the
block the first time :-)

--
In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
proven liar."

On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
"He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."

On Wednesday, 11 October 2023 at 10:47:35 UTC+11, Daryl wrote:
> On 11/10/2023 9:31 am, jonz@ nothere.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 10 October 2023 at 19:34:53 UTC+11, Noddy wrote:
> >> On 10/10/2023 1:14 pm, jonz@ nothere.com wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, 10 October 2023 at 13:00:51 UTC+11, Noddy wrote:
> >>>> On 10/10/2023 12:44 pm, Daryl wrote:
> >>>>> On 10/10/2023 11:31 am, Noddy wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>> I did indeed. The wife went into town for a boozy lunch and I picked
> >>>>>> her up from the train station around 5'ish. Took the truck for a drive
> >>>>>> into town and saw them as I went past.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The green 32 Ford coupe there was delicious :)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Very nice, the Customline ?? being a 2 door was interesting.
> >>>> It was a lovely car:
> >>>>
> >>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEPED6X
> >>>>
> >>>> A 1953 Victoria. I didn't care for the colour as I don't think it suited
> >>>> it, but the car was immaculate and the right hand drive conversion
> >>>> looked awesome
> >>
> >>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>> Nice, but where`s the '32`. :(
> >> Follow up:
> >>
> >> Not my phone being flakey, but the app on my PC that connects to it.
> >> Here's the pic here:
> >>
> >>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEPEJDF
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > Got it!. Love the colour, looks like it's had a little chop,? but otherwise left alone!. When can I pick it up?????. ;)
>
> LOL, it was parked outside the Bacchus Marsh RSL on Saturday afternoon
> but its gone now, you weren't quick enough:-)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Damn!.
>
>
>
> --
> Daryl

On 11/10/2023 11:43 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 11/10/2023 7:13 am, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>
>> I find that generally ppl who are less technically competent prefer
>> iphones, Xeno being an exception.
>
> ROTFL :)
>
Aw! Puir wee Darren. Not so technically competent, eh?

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Noddy wrote:
> On 11/10/2023 7:13 am, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>
>> I find that generally ppl who are less technically competent prefer
>> iphones, Xeno being an exception.
>
> ROTFL :)
>

he is quite technically competent, at least with computers

--
Have a nice day!..

On 11/10/2023 7:07 am, alvey wrote:
> Xeno wrote:
>> On 10/10/2023 7:49 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>> On 10/10/2023 1:45 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>>> On 10/10/2023 4:04 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>>> On 10/10/2023 2:43 pm, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>>>>>> Xeno wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Should have bought an iPhone!   ;-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and paid two to three times as much for the same features  :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Yep. Iphones are complete rubbish, and only a total flog would want
>>>>> one.
>>>>>
>>>> Well Darren, you have proven you have no idea of value. 232 million
>>>> people worldwide did have an idea about value last year - they voted
>>>> with their wallets. 28.39% market share as at July 2023. The
>>>> daughter of Huwawei CEO, Meng Wanzhou, uses Apple iPhones. Have a
>>>> think about that little conundrum Darren.
>>>>
>>>
>>> 70%+/~3.6 billion users use Android mobile, not iOShit on iPhones.
>>>
>>> Have a think of that little conundrum, Xeno.
>>>
>> Cheaper!
>
> What can an Iphone do that android can't?
>
> Or... What can an iPhone do markedly better than an android that
> justifies the iPhones primo price?
>
Integrates perfectly with other Apple devices - Mac and iPad
specifically in my case.
>
>
> alvey
> Proud supporter of Chinese gov spyware.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 11/10/2023 1:04 pm, Mighty Mouse wrote:
> Noddy wrote:
>> On 11/10/2023 7:13 am, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>>
>>> I find that generally ppl who are less technically competent prefer
>>> iphones, Xeno being an exception.
>>
>> ROTFL :)
>>
>
> he is quite technically competent, at least with computers

If you wish to believe that then knock yourself out Felix. But given his
eagerness to show how completely *incompetent* he is when it comes to
anything automotive related, it is difficult to imagine him being
"competent" at anything.

Apart from inventing alter egos that he thinks are real people.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 11/10/2023 12:04 pm, Mighty Mouse wrote:
> Noddy wrote:
>> On 11/10/2023 7:13 am, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>>
>>> I find that generally ppl who are less technically competent prefer
>>> iphones, Xeno being an exception.
>>
>> ROTFL :)
>>
>
> he is quite technically competent, at least with computers
>
>
ROTFL, he uses an Apple PC, the computer for people that don't do computers

On 11/10/2023 11:31 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 11/10/2023 1:04 pm, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>> Noddy wrote:
>>> On 11/10/2023 7:13 am, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>>>
>>>> I find that generally ppl who are less technically competent prefer
>>>> iphones, Xeno being an exception.
>>>
>>> ROTFL :)
>>>
>>
>> he is quite technically competent, at least with computers
>
> If you wish to believe that then knock yourself out Felix. But given his
> eagerness to show how completely *incompetent* he is when it comes to
> anything automotive related, it is difficult to imagine him being
> "competent" at anything.
>
> Apart from inventing alter egos that he thinks are real people.
>

You invented qualifications and an alter ego as a "mechanic".

Pity your incompetence gave you away.

--
In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
proven liar."

On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
"He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."

On 11/10/2023 3:17 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
> On 11/10/2023 12:04 pm, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>> Noddy wrote:
>>> On 11/10/2023 7:13 am, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>>>
>>>> I find that generally ppl who are less technically competent prefer
>>>> iphones, Xeno being an exception.
>>>
>>> ROTFL :)
>>>
>>
>> he is quite technically competent, at least with computers
>>
>>
> ROTFL, he uses an Apple PC, the computer for people that don't do computers

Lol :)

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 11/10/2023 3:17 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
> On 11/10/2023 12:04 pm, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>> Noddy wrote:
>>> On 11/10/2023 7:13 am, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>>>
>>>> I find that generally ppl who are less technically competent prefer
>>>> iphones, Xeno being an exception.
>>>
>>> ROTFL :)
>>>
>>
>> he is quite technically competent, at least with computers
>>
>>
> ROTFL, he uses an Apple PC, the computer for people that don't do computers

I have a few of them here. One of them, a 2011 Mac Mini is running
Linux. Another is running non-apple server software at the moment.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 11/10/2023 3:45 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 11/10/2023 3:17 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>> On 11/10/2023 12:04 pm, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>>> Noddy wrote:
>>>> On 11/10/2023 7:13 am, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I find that generally ppl who are less technically competent prefer
>>>>> iphones, Xeno being an exception.
>>>>
>>>> ROTFL :)
>>>>
>>>
>>> he is quite technically competent, at least with computers
>>>
>>>
>> ROTFL, he uses an Apple PC, the computer for people that don't do
>> computers
>
> Lol :)
>
>
And underneath the Graphical Interface, Darren, OSX has NetBSD Unix.
It's only we technically competent people who dare to delve into the
dark depths beyond the portal. In fact, I just went into the terminal to
update my account to use zsh as the "default interactive shell". FWIW,
I've been using Linux and Unix shells for *decades*. First Linux Distro
I bought was Yggdrasil Linux way back in 92 or 93. It was a pre-release
kernal back in those days - 1.0 of the kernal being released in 1994.
Ah, heady days indeed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yggdrasil_Linux/GNU/X

OSX is just a very good graphical user interface for those who don't
want, or need, to delve into the innards. That doesn't stop those of us
from enjoying use of the perfect GUI nor does it stop us delving into
the depths of its innards. The terminal app provides the portal.

Here Darren, go learn something;

https://support.apple.com/en-au/guide/terminal/welcome/mac

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 11/10/2023 5:49 pm, Xeno wrote:
> On 11/10/2023 3:45 pm, Noddy wrote:
>> On 11/10/2023 3:17 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 11/10/2023 12:04 pm, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>>>> Noddy wrote:
>>>>> On 11/10/2023 7:13 am, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I find that generally ppl who are less technically competent
>>>>>> prefer iphones, Xeno being an exception.
>>>>>
>>>>> ROTFL :)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> he is quite technically competent, at least with computers
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ROTFL, he uses an Apple PC, the computer for people that don't do
>>> computers
>>
>> Lol :)
>>
>>
> And underneath the Graphical Interface, Darren, OSX has NetBSD Unix.
> It's only we technically competent people who dare to delve into the
> dark depths beyond the portal. In fact, I just went into the terminal to
> update my account to use zsh as the "default interactive shell". FWIW,
> I've been using Linux and Unix shells for *decades*. First Linux Distro
> I bought was Yggdrasil Linux way back in 92 or 93. It was a pre-release
> kernal back in those days - 1.0 of the kernal being released in 1994.
> Ah, heady days indeed.

Wow, I was running OS-9, a cut down Unix for the Motorola 6809 back in
the early 80s, long before Linux existed in any form.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS-9

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yggdrasil_Linux/GNU/X
>
> OSX is just a very good graphical user interface for those who don't
> want, or need, to delve into the innards. That doesn't stop those of us
> from enjoying use of the perfect GUI nor does it stop us delving into
> the depths of its innards. The terminal app provides the portal.

I don't even need to do that, just spin up Ubuntu under WSL2. Best of
both worlds, the most productive operating system, plus Linux there to
do the tasks that need it such as compiling code for the Raspberry Pi
Pico, or the ESP32.

Better than 95% of Mac users never get out of the GUI.

On 11/10/2023 8:38 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
> On 11/10/2023 5:49 pm, Xeno wrote:
>> On 11/10/2023 3:45 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>> On 11/10/2023 3:17 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>>> On 11/10/2023 12:04 pm, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>>>>> Noddy wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/10/2023 7:13 am, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I find that generally ppl who are less technically competent
>>>>>>> prefer iphones, Xeno being an exception.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ROTFL :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> he is quite technically competent, at least with computers
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> ROTFL, he uses an Apple PC, the computer for people that don't do
>>>> computers
>>>
>>> Lol :)
>>>
>>>
>> And underneath the Graphical Interface, Darren, OSX has NetBSD Unix.
>> It's only we technically competent people who dare to delve into the
>> dark depths beyond the portal. In fact, I just went into the terminal
>> to update my account to use zsh as the "default interactive shell".
>> FWIW, I've been using Linux and Unix shells for *decades*. First Linux
>> Distro I bought was Yggdrasil Linux way back in 92 or 93. It was a
>> pre-release kernal back in those days - 1.0 of the kernal being
>> released in 1994.
>> Ah, heady days indeed.
>
> Wow, I was running OS-9, a cut down Unix for the Motorola 6809 back in
> the early 80s, long before Linux existed in any form.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS-9
>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yggdrasil_Linux/GNU/X
>>
>> OSX is just a very good graphical user interface for those who don't
>> want, or need, to delve into the innards. That doesn't stop those of
>> us from enjoying use of the perfect GUI nor does it stop us delving
>> into the depths of its innards. The terminal app provides the portal.
>
> I don't even need to do that, just spin up Ubuntu under WSL2. Best of
> both worlds, the most productive operating system, plus Linux there to
> do the tasks that need it such as compiling code for the Raspberry Pi
> Pico, or the ESP32.
>
> Better than 95% of Mac users never get out of the GUI.
>

Unless they are computer nerds why would they want or need to?
Way back when I had my first PC which was a 386 I was always messing
around with background files or fixing hardware but very little need to
do any of that sort of boring crap these days and if I do need something
sorted with a computer I just ring the person whose computer science
degree I paid for:-)

--
Daryl

On 11/10/2023 8:38 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
> On 11/10/2023 5:49 pm, Xeno wrote:
>> On 11/10/2023 3:45 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>> On 11/10/2023 3:17 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>>> On 11/10/2023 12:04 pm, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>>>>> Noddy wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/10/2023 7:13 am, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I find that generally ppl who are less technically competent
>>>>>>> prefer iphones, Xeno being an exception.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ROTFL :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> he is quite technically competent, at least with computers
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> ROTFL, he uses an Apple PC, the computer for people that don't do
>>>> computers
>>>
>>> Lol :)
>>>
>>>
>> And underneath the Graphical Interface, Darren, OSX has NetBSD Unix.
>> It's only we technically competent people who dare to delve into the
>> dark depths beyond the portal. In fact, I just went into the terminal
>> to update my account to use zsh as the "default interactive shell".
>> FWIW, I've been using Linux and Unix shells for *decades*. First Linux
>> Distro I bought was Yggdrasil Linux way back in 92 or 93. It was a
>> pre-release kernal back in those days - 1.0 of the kernal being
>> released in 1994.
>> Ah, heady days indeed.
>
> Wow, I was running OS-9, a cut down Unix for the Motorola 6809 back in
> the early 80s, long before Linux existed in any form.

I was into Z80 and CP/M back then. They had OS-9 on the school computer
along with, IIRC, Flex or similar.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS-9
>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yggdrasil_Linux/GNU/X
>>
>> OSX is just a very good graphical user interface for those who don't
>> want, or need, to delve into the innards. That doesn't stop those of
>> us from enjoying use of the perfect GUI nor does it stop us delving
>> into the depths of its innards. The terminal app provides the portal.
>
> I don't even need to do that, just spin up Ubuntu under WSL2. Best of

Yep, have Linux here in many iterations. So what? But why would you not
want to run Linux native? In fact, only one computer running Windows
here now - and that has a very short future ahead of it.

> both worlds, the most productive operating system, plus Linux there to

Between the Mac and Linux, I can do all I need or want.

> do the tasks that need it such as compiling code for the Raspberry Pi
> Pico, or the ESP32.
>
> Better than 95% of Mac users never get out of the GUI.
>
How is that a problem? If they can do all they need in a GUI, more power
to them, it's the way MAC OSX was designed to be operated. I'd guarantee
way more than 95% of Windows users *never get out of the GUI*. In fact,
I'd say most wouldn't know they were *in a GUI* or, for that matter,
even what a GUI is.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 11/10/2023 8:55 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 11/10/2023 8:38 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>> On 11/10/2023 5:49 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>> On 11/10/2023 3:45 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>> On 11/10/2023 3:17 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>>>> On 11/10/2023 12:04 pm, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>>>>>> Noddy wrote:
>>>>>>> On 11/10/2023 7:13 am, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I find that generally ppl who are less technically competent
>>>>>>>> prefer iphones, Xeno being an exception.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ROTFL :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> he is quite technically competent, at least with computers
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> ROTFL, he uses an Apple PC, the computer for people that don't do
>>>>> computers
>>>>
>>>> Lol :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>> And underneath the Graphical Interface, Darren, OSX has NetBSD Unix.
>>> It's only we technically competent people who dare to delve into the
>>> dark depths beyond the portal. In fact, I just went into the terminal
>>> to update my account to use zsh as the "default interactive shell".
>>> FWIW, I've been using Linux and Unix shells for *decades*. First
>>> Linux Distro I bought was Yggdrasil Linux way back in 92 or 93. It
>>> was a pre-release kernal back in those days - 1.0 of the kernal being
>>> released in 1994.
>>> Ah, heady days indeed.
>>
>> Wow, I was running OS-9, a cut down Unix for the Motorola 6809 back in
>> the early 80s, long before Linux existed in any form.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS-9
>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yggdrasil_Linux/GNU/X
>>>
>>> OSX is just a very good graphical user interface for those who don't
>>> want, or need, to delve into the innards. That doesn't stop those of
>>> us from enjoying use of the perfect GUI nor does it stop us delving
>>> into the depths of its innards. The terminal app provides the portal.
>>
>> I don't even need to do that, just spin up Ubuntu under WSL2. Best of
>> both worlds, the most productive operating system, plus Linux there to
>> do the tasks that need it such as compiling code for the Raspberry Pi
>> Pico, or the ESP32.
>>
>> Better than 95% of Mac users never get out of the GUI.
>>
>
> Unless they are computer nerds why would they want or need to?

My point exactly! The whole idea of a GUI is to provide an easy to use
and intuitive interface that allows you to do whatever it is you need to
do on a computer in the most expeditious manner possible. The Mac does
precisely that - but it doesn't prevent you getting down and dirty under
the hood. Keith doesn't seem to get it that most people just have a few
specific roles for their computer in their lives and they don't want to
have to fight with it in order to do shit. They aren't nerds and, more
importanly, they don't want to be computer nerds, they just want to use
their computer as a *tool*. Unlike Keith, I do not look down on those
people.

> Way back when I had my first PC which was a 386 I was always messing
> around with background files or fixing hardware but very little need to
> do any of that sort of boring crap these days and if I do need something
> sorted with a computer I just ring the person whose computer science
> degree I paid for:-)

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 11/10/2023 7:55 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 11/10/2023 8:38 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>> On 11/10/2023 5:49 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>> On 11/10/2023 3:45 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>> On 11/10/2023 3:17 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>>>> On 11/10/2023 12:04 pm, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>>>>>> Noddy wrote:
>>>>>>> On 11/10/2023 7:13 am, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I find that generally ppl who are less technically competent
>>>>>>>> prefer iphones, Xeno being an exception.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ROTFL :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> he is quite technically competent, at least with computers
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> ROTFL, he uses an Apple PC, the computer for people that don't do
>>>>> computers
>>>>
>>>> Lol :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>> And underneath the Graphical Interface, Darren, OSX has NetBSD Unix.
>>> It's only we technically competent people who dare to delve into the
>>> dark depths beyond the portal. In fact, I just went into the terminal
>>> to update my account to use zsh as the "default interactive shell".
>>> FWIW, I've been using Linux and Unix shells for *decades*. First
>>> Linux Distro I bought was Yggdrasil Linux way back in 92 or 93. It
>>> was a pre-release kernal back in those days - 1.0 of the kernal being
>>> released in 1994.
>>> Ah, heady days indeed.
>>
>> Wow, I was running OS-9, a cut down Unix for the Motorola 6809 back in
>> the early 80s, long before Linux existed in any form.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS-9
>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yggdrasil_Linux/GNU/X
>>>
>>> OSX is just a very good graphical user interface for those who don't
>>> want, or need, to delve into the innards. That doesn't stop those of
>>> us from enjoying use of the perfect GUI nor does it stop us delving
>>> into the depths of its innards. The terminal app provides the portal.
>>
>> I don't even need to do that, just spin up Ubuntu under WSL2. Best of
>> both worlds, the most productive operating system, plus Linux there to
>> do the tasks that need it such as compiling code for the Raspberry Pi
>> Pico, or the ESP32.
>>
>> Better than 95% of Mac users never get out of the GUI.
>>
>
> Unless they are computer nerds why would they want or need to?
> Way back when I had my first PC which was a 386 I was always messing
> around with background files or fixing hardware but very little need to
> do any of that sort of boring crap these days and if I do need something
> sorted with a computer I just ring the person whose computer science
> degree I paid for:-)
>
>
>
Like I said a computer for those who don't do computers, there's no
problem with that if that is all you want to do.

On 11/10/2023 8:22 pm, Xeno wrote:
> On 11/10/2023 8:55 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 11/10/2023 8:38 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 11/10/2023 5:49 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>>> On 11/10/2023 3:45 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>>> On 11/10/2023 3:17 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/10/2023 12:04 pm, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>>>>>>> Noddy wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 11/10/2023 7:13 am, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I find that generally ppl who are less technically competent
>>>>>>>>> prefer iphones, Xeno being an exception.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ROTFL :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> he is quite technically competent, at least with computers
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> ROTFL, he uses an Apple PC, the computer for people that don't do
>>>>>> computers
>>>>>
>>>>> Lol :)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> And underneath the Graphical Interface, Darren, OSX has NetBSD Unix.
>>>> It's only we technically competent people who dare to delve into the
>>>> dark depths beyond the portal. In fact, I just went into the
>>>> terminal to update my account to use zsh as the "default interactive
>>>> shell". FWIW, I've been using Linux and Unix shells for *decades*.
>>>> First Linux Distro I bought was Yggdrasil Linux way back in 92 or
>>>> 93. It was a pre-release kernal back in those days - 1.0 of the
>>>> kernal being released in 1994.
>>>> Ah, heady days indeed.
>>>
>>> Wow, I was running OS-9, a cut down Unix for the Motorola 6809 back
>>> in the early 80s, long before Linux existed in any form.
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS-9
>>>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yggdrasil_Linux/GNU/X
>>>>
>>>> OSX is just a very good graphical user interface for those who don't
>>>> want, or need, to delve into the innards. That doesn't stop those of
>>>> us from enjoying use of the perfect GUI nor does it stop us delving
>>>> into the depths of its innards. The terminal app provides the portal.
>>>
>>> I don't even need to do that, just spin up Ubuntu under WSL2. Best of
>>> both worlds, the most productive operating system, plus Linux there
>>> to do the tasks that need it such as compiling code for the Raspberry
>>> Pi Pico, or the ESP32.
>>>
>>> Better than 95% of Mac users never get out of the GUI.
>>>
>>
>> Unless they are computer nerds why would they want or need to?
>
> My point exactly! The whole idea of a GUI is to provide an easy to use
> and intuitive interface that allows you to do whatever it is you need to
> do on a computer in the most expeditious manner possible. The Mac does
> precisely that -

As does Windows.

> but it doesn't prevent you getting down and dirty under
> the hood. Keith doesn't seem to get it that most people just have a few
> specific roles for their computer in their lives and they don't want to
> have to fight with it in order to do shit.

And 90% of them are doing just that on Windows machines.

They aren't nerds and, more
> importanly, they don't want to be computer nerds, they just want to use
> their computer as a *tool*. Unlike Keith, I do not look down on those
> people.

Wrong, I don't look down on people using their computer for the purpose
that they are intended, making life easier. I do look down on Apple
fanbois who think that they have something something special when 9
times as many users are doing exactly the same thing on Windows

>> Way back when I had my first PC which was a 386 I was always messing
>> around with background files or fixing hardware but very little need
>> to do any of that sort of boring crap these days and if I do need
>> something sorted with a computer I just ring the person whose computer
>> science degree I paid for:-)
>
>
>

On 11/10/2023 5:38 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
> On 11/10/2023 5:49 pm, Xeno wrote:
>> On 11/10/2023 3:45 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>> On 11/10/2023 3:17 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>>> On 11/10/2023 12:04 pm, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>>>>> Noddy wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/10/2023 7:13 am, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I find that generally ppl who are less technically competent
>>>>>>> prefer iphones, Xeno being an exception.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ROTFL :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> he is quite technically competent, at least with computers
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> ROTFL, he uses an Apple PC, the computer for people that don't do
>>>> computers
>>>
>>> Lol :)
>>>
>>>
>> And underneath the Graphical Interface, Darren, OSX has NetBSD Unix.
>> It's only we technically competent people who dare to delve into the
>> dark depths beyond the portal. In fact, I just went into the terminal
>> to update my account to use zsh as the "default interactive shell".
>> FWIW, I've been using Linux and Unix shells for *decades*. First Linux
>> Distro I bought was Yggdrasil Linux way back in 92 or 93. It was a
>> pre-release kernal back in those days - 1.0 of the kernal being
>> released in 1994.
>> Ah, heady days indeed.
>
> Wow, I was running OS-9, a cut down Unix for the Motorola 6809 back in
> the early 80s, long before Linux existed in any form.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS-9
>

Big deal, so was I.

--
In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
proven liar."

On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
"He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."

On 11/10/2023 3:17 pm, Xeno wrote:
> On 11/10/2023 3:17 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>> On 11/10/2023 12:04 pm, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>>> Noddy wrote:
>>>> On 11/10/2023 7:13 am, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I find that generally ppl who are less technically competent prefer
>>>>> iphones, Xeno being an exception.
>>>>
>>>> ROTFL :)
>>>>
>>>
>>> he is quite technically competent, at least with computers
>>>
>>>
>> ROTFL, he uses an Apple PC, the computer for people that don't do
>> computers
>
> I have a few of them here. One of them, a 2011 Mac Mini is running
> Linux.
Well that's one way to make a crApple device even less useful :-)

--
In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
proven liar."

On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
"He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."

On 11/10/2023 8:11 pm, Xeno wrote:
> On 11/10/2023 8:38 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>> On 11/10/2023 5:49 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>> On 11/10/2023 3:45 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>> On 11/10/2023 3:17 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>>>> On 11/10/2023 12:04 pm, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>>>>>> Noddy wrote:
>>>>>>> On 11/10/2023 7:13 am, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I find that generally ppl who are less technically competent
>>>>>>>> prefer iphones, Xeno being an exception.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ROTFL :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> he is quite technically competent, at least with computers
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> ROTFL, he uses an Apple PC, the computer for people that don't do
>>>>> computers
>>>>
>>>> Lol :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>> And underneath the Graphical Interface, Darren, OSX has NetBSD Unix.
>>> It's only we technically competent people who dare to delve into the
>>> dark depths beyond the portal. In fact, I just went into the terminal
>>> to update my account to use zsh as the "default interactive shell".
>>> FWIW, I've been using Linux and Unix shells for *decades*. First
>>> Linux Distro I bought was Yggdrasil Linux way back in 92 or 93. It
>>> was a pre-release kernal back in those days - 1.0 of the kernal being
>>> released in 1994.
>>> Ah, heady days indeed.
>>
>> Wow, I was running OS-9, a cut down Unix for the Motorola 6809 back in
>> the early 80s, long before Linux existed in any form.
>
> I was into Z80 and CP/M back then. They had OS-9 on the school computer
> along with, IIRC, Flex or similar.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS-9
>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yggdrasil_Linux/GNU/X
>>>
>>> OSX is just a very good graphical user interface for those who don't
>>> want, or need, to delve into the innards. That doesn't stop those of
>>> us from enjoying use of the perfect GUI nor does it stop us delving
>>> into the depths of its innards. The terminal app provides the portal.
>>
>> I don't even need to do that, just spin up Ubuntu under WSL2. Best of
>
> Yep, have Linux here in many iterations. So what? But why would you not
> want to run Linux native?

It is running native in a virtual machine, it's a standard x86 Ubuntu
distro but you can share files seamlessly with Windows.

> In fact, only one computer running Windows
> here now - and that has a very short future ahead of it.

Whatevs

>> both worlds, the most productive operating system, plus Linux there to
>
> Between the Mac and Linux, I can do all I need or want.
>
>> do the tasks that need it such as compiling code for the Raspberry Pi
>> Pico, or the ESP32.
>>
>> Better than 95% of Mac users never get out of the GUI.
>>
> How is that a problem? If they can do all they need in a GUI, more power
> to them, it's the way MAC OSX was designed to be operated. I'd guarantee
> way more than 95% of Windows users *never get out of the GUI*. In fact,
> I'd say most wouldn't know they were *in a GUI* or, for that matter,
> even what a GUI is.
>
Definition of an oxymoron - a Mac hacker.

On 11/10/2023 9:43 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
> On 11/10/2023 7:55 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 11/10/2023 8:38 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 11/10/2023 5:49 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>>> On 11/10/2023 3:45 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>>> On 11/10/2023 3:17 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/10/2023 12:04 pm, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>>>>>>> Noddy wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 11/10/2023 7:13 am, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I find that generally ppl who are less technically competent
>>>>>>>>> prefer iphones, Xeno being an exception.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ROTFL :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> he is quite technically competent, at least with computers
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> ROTFL, he uses an Apple PC, the computer for people that don't do
>>>>>> computers
>>>>>
>>>>> Lol :)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> And underneath the Graphical Interface, Darren, OSX has NetBSD Unix.
>>>> It's only we technically competent people who dare to delve into the
>>>> dark depths beyond the portal. In fact, I just went into the
>>>> terminal to update my account to use zsh as the "default interactive
>>>> shell". FWIW, I've been using Linux and Unix shells for *decades*.
>>>> First Linux Distro I bought was Yggdrasil Linux way back in 92 or
>>>> 93. It was a pre-release kernal back in those days - 1.0 of the
>>>> kernal being released in 1994.
>>>> Ah, heady days indeed.
>>>
>>> Wow, I was running OS-9, a cut down Unix for the Motorola 6809 back
>>> in the early 80s, long before Linux existed in any form.
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS-9
>>>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yggdrasil_Linux/GNU/X
>>>>
>>>> OSX is just a very good graphical user interface for those who don't
>>>> want, or need, to delve into the innards. That doesn't stop those of
>>>> us from enjoying use of the perfect GUI nor does it stop us delving
>>>> into the depths of its innards. The terminal app provides the portal.
>>>
>>> I don't even need to do that, just spin up Ubuntu under WSL2. Best of
>>> both worlds, the most productive operating system, plus Linux there
>>> to do the tasks that need it such as compiling code for the Raspberry
>>> Pi Pico, or the ESP32.
>>>
>>> Better than 95% of Mac users never get out of the GUI.
>>>
>>
>> Unless they are computer nerds why would they want or need to?
>> Way back when I had my first PC which was a 386 I was always messing
>> around with background files or fixing hardware but very little need
>> to do any of that sort of boring crap these days and if I do need
>> something sorted with a computer I just ring the person whose computer
>> science degree I paid for:-)
>>
>>
>>
> Like I said a computer for those who don't do computers, there's no
> problem with that if that is all you want to do.

That would be most people.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 11/10/2023 10:01 pm, Clocky wrote:
> On 11/10/2023 3:17 pm, Xeno wrote:
>> On 11/10/2023 3:17 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 11/10/2023 12:04 pm, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>>>> Noddy wrote:
>>>>> On 11/10/2023 7:13 am, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I find that generally ppl who are less technically competent
>>>>>> prefer iphones, Xeno being an exception.
>>>>>
>>>>> ROTFL :)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> he is quite technically competent, at least with computers
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ROTFL, he uses an Apple PC, the computer for people that don't do
>>> computers
>>
>> I have a few of them here. One of them, a 2011 Mac Mini is running Linux.
> Well that's one way to make a crApple device even less useful :-)
>
Yeah, I know, not as good as Mac OSX - but it was an experiment to put
an old Mac to a different use. Besides, Linux is Ok, just no GUI
standardisation.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 11/10/2023 10:03 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
> On 11/10/2023 8:11 pm, Xeno wrote:
>> On 11/10/2023 8:38 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 11/10/2023 5:49 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>>> On 11/10/2023 3:45 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>>> On 11/10/2023 3:17 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/10/2023 12:04 pm, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>>>>>>> Noddy wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 11/10/2023 7:13 am, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I find that generally ppl who are less technically competent
>>>>>>>>> prefer iphones, Xeno being an exception.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ROTFL :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> he is quite technically competent, at least with computers
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> ROTFL, he uses an Apple PC, the computer for people that don't do
>>>>>> computers
>>>>>
>>>>> Lol :)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> And underneath the Graphical Interface, Darren, OSX has NetBSD Unix.
>>>> It's only we technically competent people who dare to delve into the
>>>> dark depths beyond the portal. In fact, I just went into the
>>>> terminal to update my account to use zsh as the "default interactive
>>>> shell". FWIW, I've been using Linux and Unix shells for *decades*.
>>>> First Linux Distro I bought was Yggdrasil Linux way back in 92 or
>>>> 93. It was a pre-release kernal back in those days - 1.0 of the
>>>> kernal being released in 1994.
>>>> Ah, heady days indeed.
>>>
>>> Wow, I was running OS-9, a cut down Unix for the Motorola 6809 back
>>> in the early 80s, long before Linux existed in any form.
>>
>> I was into Z80 and CP/M back then. They had OS-9 on the school
>> computer along with, IIRC, Flex or similar.
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS-9
>>>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yggdrasil_Linux/GNU/X
>>>>
>>>> OSX is just a very good graphical user interface for those who don't
>>>> want, or need, to delve into the innards. That doesn't stop those of
>>>> us from enjoying use of the perfect GUI nor does it stop us delving
>>>> into the depths of its innards. The terminal app provides the portal.
>>>
>>> I don't even need to do that, just spin up Ubuntu under WSL2. Best of
>>
>> Yep, have Linux here in many iterations. So what? But why would you
>> not want to run Linux native?
>
> It is running native in a virtual machine, it's a standard x86 Ubuntu
> distro but you can share files seamlessly with Windows.

It's *in* a virtual machine, then it isn't running native. It's not
running on the *machine hardware*.
>
>> In fact, only one computer running Windows here now - and that has a
>> very short future ahead of it.
>
> Whatevs
>
>>> both worlds, the most productive operating system, plus Linux there to
>>
>> Between the Mac and Linux, I can do all I need or want.
>>
>>> do the tasks that need it such as compiling code for the Raspberry Pi
>>> Pico, or the ESP32.
>>>
>>> Better than 95% of Mac users never get out of the GUI.
>>>
>> How is that a problem? If they can do all they need in a GUI, more
>> power to them, it's the way MAC OSX was designed to be operated. I'd
>> guarantee way more than 95% of Windows users *never get out of the
>> GUI*. In fact, I'd say most wouldn't know they were *in a GUI* or, for
>> that matter, even what a GUI is.
>>
> Definition of an oxymoron - a Mac hacker.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)