On 19/10/2021 18:11, charles wrote:
>> A proper "disaster recovery backup" should provide the same service as
>> before. Not sans subtitles and AD. I don't think one that only provided
>> SD (or monochrome) would have been regarded as "fit for purpose".

> Accountants rule

Someone earlier mentioned "reasonableness", that might cover the system
not being perfect in the immediate aftermath of a "disaster" when the
important thing is just restoring service.

But a "disaster recovery backup" that is not designed to continue to
work means someone has failed to design it properly probably people more
senior did not consider it important enough to spend what was needed.

You can understand that a mast collapse / failure taking a long time to
rectify but not something like this fault.

On 19/10/2021 18:22, SH wrote:
> On 19/10/2021 18:02, Robin wrote:
>> On 19/10/2021 17:44, Max Demian wrote:
>>> On 19/10/2021 14:39, Robin wrote:
>>>> On 19/10/2021 13:19, SH wrote:
>>>>> On 19/10/2021 13:03, Mark Carver wrote:
>>>>>> On 19/10/2021 11:44, charles wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is quite possible that the back-up system was designed before
>>>>>>> the days
>>>>>>> of AD & subtitles.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> It wasn't, it dates from the mid-late  00s
>>>>>
>>>>> which reinforces my point about regularly reviewing & testing your
>>>>> DR planning & processes on a regular basis.
>>>>>
>>>>> Had Ch 4 done this, They would have realised that that their DR
>>>>> plan would not be compliant with the Equality Act 2010 as AD and
>>>>> signers and subtitling was certainly not as commonplace then as it
>>>>> is now.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I'm unclear how you can be so sure when AFAIK we have no details of
>>>> just what's gone wrong.  It is after all not impossible for 2
>>>> improbable things to happen in succession.  (E.g. emergency
>>>> generators which were regularly tested have been known to fail -
>>>> sometimes spectacularly - when called on for real.) And I'm not
>>>> aware of the Act demanding 100% performance.  (After all, Ofcom
>>>> didn't even set a target of 100% subtitling for Channel 4.)
>>>
>>> A proper "disaster recovery backup" should provide the same service
>>> as before. Not sans subtitles and AD. I don't think one that only
>>> provided SD (or monochrome) would have been regarded as "fit for
>>> purpose".
>>>
>>
>> If you say so. But where does the Equality Act or any other
>> legislation require it of C4?  AFAIK that - unlike some people -
>> recognises that the price of perfection is prohibitive.
>>
>
> The key word seems to be Reasonable......
>
> It was clearly considered reasonable to provide subtitles, AD and
> signing on teh original system.
>
> So therefore it is reasonable for the DR system to be of the same spec
> as the original....

Has anyone evidence the spec was different? AIUI C4 did have an
emergency back-up subtitling system but that also failed.

My point was the difference between asking "did C4 have a DR plan that
gave them a reasonable expectation they would be able to resume
services...?" and asking "why didn't they have DR plan that
/guaranteed/ they would be ...?"

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

In article <skn48m$rkd$1@dont-email.me>,
MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 19/10/2021 17:44, Max Demian wrote:
> > A proper "disaster recovery backup" should provide the same service as
> > before. Not sans subtitles and AD. I don't think one that only provided
> > SD (or monochrome) would have been regarded as "fit for purpose".

> If their licence specifies subtitles and AD then I am sure OFCOM will be
> giving them some penalties when it is all fixed. Will hopefullhy get
> quite expensive for Channel 4.

but, they need that money - to re-build

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

"Robin" <rbw@outlook.com> wrote in message
news:f8324e09-1846-cd68-5d9f-06196008d45f@outlook.com...
> (E.g. emergency generators which were regularly tested have been known to
> fail - sometimes spectacularly - when called on for real.)

I saw this first-hand. A JCB elsewhere in town put its backhoe through an
underground HV cable, taking out power to most of the town. Our power at
work went off. Within an impressible short time there was a loud roar from
outside the window near my desk and a cloud of diesel smoke. The emergency
generator for the building had kicked in. There was a lot of cheering. But
only a minute or so later, there was a huge fireball - and the power went
off and stayed off.

We were later told by site services that the generator had not been tested
recently and there was insufficient lubricating oil. Also, and more
embarrassingly, the generator spec dated from before PCs on every person's
desk, when they just had terminals linked to a mainframe in the machine
hall, which used a lot less power. So out-of-date spec and poor
maintenance/testing. What could go wrong with that? ;-)

On 19/10/2021 21:11, NY wrote:
> (E.g. emergency generators which were regularly tested have been known to
> fail - sometimes spectacularly - when called on for real.)

A common one is testing the generator periodically by starting it off
load and warming it up before switching ovputting on load perhaps with
half the equipment running on unmaintained.

On 19/10/2021 11:09, Mark Carver wrote:
> Well, they (possibly) didn't,  so we are where we are. I don't see how
> Brian constantly starting a new thread every few days and banging on
> about  it is going to help.
>
> Replacement equipment needs to be sourced, run up (by specialist
> engineering staff) and commissioned. In the real live world at present
> there are multiple supply and logistics problems, and ever extending
> lead times, (none of this is restricted to broadcasting either)

What amazing weird and wonderful equipment takes this long to repair or
replace? Most of the news stories just say "servers" were damaged.

--
Brian Gregory (in England).

On 19/10/2021 18:27, SH wrote:
> Does anyone remember the twice yearly test of the analogue transmitters
> where the RBL feeds would be tested?
>
> I seem to recall there were a few designated "master transmitters" so if
> a fault developed in the feeds, the main transmitters would switch to
> being "relays" of the designated master transmitters.

I never saw it happening but I heard the signal was pretty ropey by the
time it reached the places most distant from London.

--
Brian Gregory (in England).

Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> wrote:
> On 19/10/2021 11:09, Mark Carver wrote:
>> Well, they (possibly) didn't,  so we are where we are. I don't see how
>> Brian constantly starting a new thread every few days and banging on
>> about  it is going to help.
>>
>> Replacement equipment needs to be sourced, run up (by specialist
>> engineering staff) and commissioned. In the real live world at present
>> there are multiple supply and logistics problems, and ever extending
>> lead times, (none of this is restricted to broadcasting either)
>
> What amazing weird and wonderful equipment takes this long to repair or
> replace? Most of the news stories just say "servers" were damaged.
>

Any sort of IT equipment is in short supply at the moment.

On 20/10/2021 00:57, Brian Gregory wrote:
> On 19/10/2021 18:27, SH wrote:
>> Does anyone remember the twice yearly test of the analogue
>> transmitters where the RBL feeds would be tested?
>>
>> I seem to recall there were a few designated "master transmitters" so
>> if a fault developed in the feeds, the main transmitters would switch
>> to being "relays" of the designated master transmitters.
>
> I never saw it happening but I heard the signal was pretty ropey by the
> time it reached the places most distant from London.
>

yes, the test pictures had very light snow on them but they did not roll
or lose their colour carrier.

Think that is down to the RBL point to point links rather than the
transmitters reducing their output ERP unless they were deliberately
beiing tested on standby generators and for some techhnical reason had
to reduce their ERP so the Genny could support it or to eke out fuel
su[pplies?

I'm sure our resident Mark Carver or resident MB may know?

On 20/10/2021 06:57, Tweed wrote:
> Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> wrote:
>> On 19/10/2021 11:09, Mark Carver wrote:
>>> Well, they (possibly) didn't,  so we are where we are. I don't see how
>>> Brian constantly starting a new thread every few days and banging on
>>> about  it is going to help.
>>>
>>> Replacement equipment needs to be sourced, run up (by specialist
>>> engineering staff) and commissioned. In the real live world at present
>>> there are multiple supply and logistics problems, and ever extending
>>> lead times, (none of this is restricted to broadcasting either)
>> What amazing weird and wonderful equipment takes this long to repair or
>> replace? Most of the news stories just say "servers" were damaged.
>>
> Any sort of IT equipment is in short supply at the moment.
>
It seems (apart from possibly Mr Tweed ?) everyone in this thread must
have retired years ago, they seem blissfully unaware of the present
difficulties in the big bad 'new normal' world ?

On 20/10/2021 00:57, Brian Gregory wrote:
> On 19/10/2021 18:27, SH wrote:
>> Does anyone remember the twice yearly test of the analogue
>> transmitters where the RBL feeds would be tested?
>>
>> I seem to recall there were a few designated "master transmitters" so
>> if a fault developed in the feeds, the main transmitters would switch
>> to being "relays" of the designated master transmitters.
>
> I never saw it happening but I heard the signal was pretty ropey by
> the time it reached the places most distant from London.
>
It actually improved Hannington's picture quality. The standby off air
feed from CP, was far cleaner than the regular off air feed from Rowridge !

However, yes, things got ropey after a couple of hops. The use of the
RBS system to provide that sort of national chain-link back up was last
resort, but it was really intended to deal with regional problems. For
instance if say Wenvoe lost its line feed, it would re-broadcast Mendip.
In that situation the loss of quality was negligible.

There were also interlocks to avoid 'howl-round.

For instance Rowridge's RBS feed was Hannington, but Hannington's RBL
feed was Rowridge, so there was stitchery involving VBI signals to avoid
Rowridge switching to Hannington, before Hannington switched to CP.

The annual overnight national RBS test (where basically all the circuits
leaving London were cut in one swoop, leaving just CP radiating a test
card) was a good way to test everything at once, in a worst case
situation. (Same applied to the FM network, using Wrotham as the
starting point)

In article <it93tmF4hehU1@mid.individual.net>,
Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> wrote:
> On 19/10/2021 11:09, Mark Carver wrote:
> > Well, they (possibly) didn't, so we are where we are. I don't see how
> > Brian constantly starting a new thread every few days and banging on
> > about it is going to help.
> >
> > Replacement equipment needs to be sourced, run up (by specialist
> > engineering staff) and commissioned. In the real live world at present
> > there are multiple supply and logistics problems, and ever extending
> > lead times, (none of this is restricted to broadcasting either)

> What amazing weird and wonderful equipment takes this long to repair or
> replace?

Old stuff - parts no longer available? nobody knows how it works?
> --

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

In article <it94b9F4hehU2@mid.individual.net>,
Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> wrote:
> On 19/10/2021 18:27, SH wrote:
> > Does anyone remember the twice yearly test of the analogue transmitters
> > where the RBL feeds would be tested?
> >
> > I seem to recall there were a few designated "master transmitters" so
> > if a fault developed in the feeds, the main transmitters would switch
> > to being "relays" of the designated master transmitters.

> I never saw it happening but I heard the signal was pretty ropey by the
> time it reached the places most distant from London.

It was pretty poor when coming out of Winter Hill and that's probably only
1/4 the way up.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On Wed, 20 Oct 2021 09:15:50 +0100, charles <charles@candehope.me.uk>
wrote:

>In article <it93tmF4hehU1@mid.individual.net>,
> Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> wrote:
>> On 19/10/2021 11:09, Mark Carver wrote:
>> > Well, they (possibly) didn't, so we are where we are. I don't see how
>> > Brian constantly starting a new thread every few days and banging on
>> > about it is going to help.
>> >
>> > Replacement equipment needs to be sourced, run up (by specialist
>> > engineering staff) and commissioned. In the real live world at present
>> > there are multiple supply and logistics problems, and ever extending
>> > lead times, (none of this is restricted to broadcasting either)
>
>> What amazing weird and wonderful equipment takes this long to repair or
>> replace?
>
>Old stuff - parts no longer available? nobody knows how it works?

The unknowable shoulld try the repair shop.

--
brightside S9

On 20/10/2021 08:55, Mark Carver wrote:
> The annual overnight national RBS test (where basically all the circuits
> leaving London were cut in one swoop, leaving just CP radiating a test
> card) was a good way to test everything at once, in a worst case
> situation. (Same applied to the FM network, using Wrotham as the
> starting point)

It could be "interesting" to see some of the results at the end of the
chain!

In the days before the Lindos, we were sent an Australian made audio
test set to try out at the end of the chain.

It used to be funny listing to the announcement from the presenter who
had been told warn listeners of the some strange noises but of course
had no idea what it was - we had permission to do the tests during the
day with the test signal originating in Glasgow - at that time the could
feed Islay on its own but usually the test signals would go out on the
whole network.

Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 20/10/2021 06:57, Tweed wrote:
>> Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 19/10/2021 11:09, Mark Carver wrote:
>>>> Well, they (possibly) didn't,  so we are where we are. I don't see how
>>>> Brian constantly starting a new thread every few days and banging on
>>>> about  it is going to help.
>>>>
>>>> Replacement equipment needs to be sourced, run up (by specialist
>>>> engineering staff) and commissioned. In the real live world at present
>>>> there are multiple supply and logistics problems, and ever extending
>>>> lead times, (none of this is restricted to broadcasting either)
>>> What amazing weird and wonderful equipment takes this long to repair or
>>> replace? Most of the news stories just say "servers" were damaged.
>>>
>> Any sort of IT equipment is in short supply at the moment.
>>
> It seems (apart from possibly Mr Tweed ?) everyone in this thread must
> have retired years ago, they seem blissfully unaware of the present
> difficulties in the big bad 'new normal' world ?
>

Yup, I’m not retired - about the same vintage as yourself. Currently laid
up as a result of some minor surgery. It’s a nightmare doing anything in
the world of electronics. Laptops I’ve had on order with HP since May,
originally slated for an October delivery (that seemed bad enough at the
time) have now slipped to December. Even for space qualified components
(£100 for an 0603 resistor!) the suppliers are no longer honouring the
delivery times in their quotes. And before anyone shouts Brexit, my EU
based project collaborators are suffering the same issues. I can imagine
that the stuff needed for a new or repaired playout centre could easily be
on a one year lead time. Lots of factories in China are now on a three day
week due to electricity rationing.

On 20/10/2021 09:36, Tweed wrote:
> Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 20/10/2021 06:57, Tweed wrote:
>>> Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 19/10/2021 11:09, Mark Carver wrote:
>>>>> Well, they (possibly) didn't,  so we are where we are. I don't see how
>>>>> Brian constantly starting a new thread every few days and banging on
>>>>> about  it is going to help.
>>>>>
>>>>> Replacement equipment needs to be sourced, run up (by specialist
>>>>> engineering staff) and commissioned. In the real live world at present
>>>>> there are multiple supply and logistics problems, and ever extending
>>>>> lead times, (none of this is restricted to broadcasting either)
>>>> What amazing weird and wonderful equipment takes this long to repair or
>>>> replace? Most of the news stories just say "servers" were damaged.
>>>>
>>> Any sort of IT equipment is in short supply at the moment.
>>>
>> It seems (apart from possibly Mr Tweed ?) everyone in this thread must
>> have retired years ago, they seem blissfully unaware of the present
>> difficulties in the big bad 'new normal' world ?
>>
> Yup, I’m not retired - about the same vintage as yourself. Currently laid
> up as a result of some minor surgery. It’s a nightmare doing anything in
> the world of electronics. Laptops I’ve had on order with HP since May,
> originally slated for an October delivery (that seemed bad enough at the
> time) have now slipped to December. Even for space qualified components
> (£100 for an 0603 resistor!) the suppliers are no longer honouring the
> delivery times in their quotes. And before anyone shouts Brexit, my EU
> based project collaborators are suffering the same issues. I can imagine
> that the stuff needed for a new or repaired playout centre could easily be
> on a one year lead time. Lots of factories in China are now on a three day
> week due to electricity rationing.
>
Hang on in there Mr Tweed, you're far from alone in all this

Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 20/10/2021 09:36, Tweed wrote:
>> Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 20/10/2021 06:57, Tweed wrote:
>>>> Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> On 19/10/2021 11:09, Mark Carver wrote:
>>>>>> Well, they (possibly) didn't,  so we are where we are. I don't see how
>>>>>> Brian constantly starting a new thread every few days and banging on
>>>>>> about  it is going to help.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Replacement equipment needs to be sourced, run up (by specialist
>>>>>> engineering staff) and commissioned. In the real live world at present
>>>>>> there are multiple supply and logistics problems, and ever extending
>>>>>> lead times, (none of this is restricted to broadcasting either)
>>>>> What amazing weird and wonderful equipment takes this long to repair or
>>>>> replace? Most of the news stories just say "servers" were damaged.
>>>>>
>>>> Any sort of IT equipment is in short supply at the moment.
>>>>
>>> It seems (apart from possibly Mr Tweed ?) everyone in this thread must
>>> have retired years ago, they seem blissfully unaware of the present
>>> difficulties in the big bad 'new normal' world ?
>>>
>> Yup, I’m not retired - about the same vintage as yourself. Currently laid
>> up as a result of some minor surgery. It’s a nightmare doing anything in
>> the world of electronics. Laptops I’ve had on order with HP since May,
>> originally slated for an October delivery (that seemed bad enough at the
>> time) have now slipped to December. Even for space qualified components
>> (£100 for an 0603 resistor!) the suppliers are no longer honouring the
>> delivery times in their quotes. And before anyone shouts Brexit, my EU
>> based project collaborators are suffering the same issues. I can imagine
>> that the stuff needed for a new or repaired playout centre could easily be
>> on a one year lead time. Lots of factories in China are now on a three day
>> week due to electricity rationing.
>>
> Hang on in there Mr Tweed, you're far from alone in all this
>

And for all those that say DR kit should be regularly exercised - who is to
say it was not? In my experience things tend to work until they don’t. Just
because the subtitle playout gizmo worked last month doesn’t mean it will
work the next time you turn it on. I’ve lost count of the number of people
stood before me with a bit of dead kit who protest that it was working fine
yesterday.

On Wed, 20 Oct 2021 08:36:31 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

>Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 20/10/2021 06:57, Tweed wrote:
>>> Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 19/10/2021 11:09, Mark Carver wrote:
>>>>> Well, they (possibly) didn't,  so we are where we are. I don't see how
>>>>> Brian constantly starting a new thread every few days and banging on
>>>>> about  it is going to help.
>>>>>
>>>>> Replacement equipment needs to be sourced, run up (by specialist
>>>>> engineering staff) and commissioned. In the real live world at present
>>>>> there are multiple supply and logistics problems, and ever extending
>>>>> lead times, (none of this is restricted to broadcasting either)
>>>> What amazing weird and wonderful equipment takes this long to repair or
>>>> replace? Most of the news stories just say "servers" were damaged.
>>>>
>>> Any sort of IT equipment is in short supply at the moment.
>>>
>> It seems (apart from possibly Mr Tweed ?) everyone in this thread must
>> have retired years ago, they seem blissfully unaware of the present
>> difficulties in the big bad 'new normal' world ?
>>
>
>Yup, I’m not retired - about the same vintage as yourself. Currently laid
>up as a result of some minor surgery. It’s a nightmare doing anything in
>the world of electronics. Laptops I’ve had on order with HP since May,
>originally slated for an October delivery (that seemed bad enough at the
>time) have now slipped to December. Even for space qualified components
>(£100 for an 0603 resistor!) the suppliers are no longer honouring the
>delivery times in their quotes. And before anyone shouts Brexit, my EU
>based project collaborators are suffering the same issues. I can imagine
>that the stuff needed for a new or repaired playout centre could easily be
>on a one year lead time. Lots of factories in China are now on a three day
>week due to electricity rationing.

Comments made by some of the technical presenters on Youtube seem to
indicate that the shortage of electronic components is affecting the
entire world, so yes, nothing to do with Brexit.

Rod.

On 20/10/2021 10:10, Tweed wrote:
> Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 20/10/2021 09:36, Tweed wrote:
>>> Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 20/10/2021 06:57, Tweed wrote:
>>>>> Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> On 19/10/2021 11:09, Mark Carver wrote:
>>>>>>> Well, they (possibly) didn't,  so we are where we are. I don't see how
>>>>>>> Brian constantly starting a new thread every few days and banging on
>>>>>>> about  it is going to help.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Replacement equipment needs to be sourced, run up (by specialist
>>>>>>> engineering staff) and commissioned. In the real live world at present
>>>>>>> there are multiple supply and logistics problems, and ever extending
>>>>>>> lead times, (none of this is restricted to broadcasting either)
>>>>>> What amazing weird and wonderful equipment takes this long to repair or
>>>>>> replace? Most of the news stories just say "servers" were damaged.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Any sort of IT equipment is in short supply at the moment.
>>>>>
>>>> It seems (apart from possibly Mr Tweed ?) everyone in this thread must
>>>> have retired years ago, they seem blissfully unaware of the present
>>>> difficulties in the big bad 'new normal' world ?
>>>>
>>> Yup, I’m not retired - about the same vintage as yourself. Currently laid
>>> up as a result of some minor surgery. It’s a nightmare doing anything in
>>> the world of electronics. Laptops I’ve had on order with HP since May,
>>> originally slated for an October delivery (that seemed bad enough at the
>>> time) have now slipped to December. Even for space qualified components
>>> (£100 for an 0603 resistor!) the suppliers are no longer honouring the
>>> delivery times in their quotes. And before anyone shouts Brexit, my EU
>>> based project collaborators are suffering the same issues. I can imagine
>>> that the stuff needed for a new or repaired playout centre could easily be
>>> on a one year lead time. Lots of factories in China are now on a three day
>>> week due to electricity rationing.
>>>
>> Hang on in there Mr Tweed, you're far from alone in all this
>>
> And for all those that say DR kit should be regularly exercised - who is to
> say it was not? In my experience things tend to work until they don’t. Just
> because the subtitle playout gizmo worked last month doesn’t mean it will
> work the next time you turn it on. I’ve lost count of the number of people
> stood before me with a bit of dead kit who protest that it was working fine
> yesterday.
>
Yes, part of the problem I think is that the subtitle data was lost in
the MAM [1]system when Red Bee's incident happened.
C4 seemed to be able to provide subtitles for the live 'Stand up to
Cancer' show on Friday I think, so it's not the insertion that's the
problem (though it certainly was to start with)

BTW I didn't realise C4 (and its siblings) was so popular in this group
? All I've ever seen until a month ago, is that it just shows a load of
'Yoof TV' orientated crap, and has too many adverts.
Clearly Brian is a huge fan of Bake Off and Gogglebox ?

[1] MAM Media Asset Management

Contains sales spin, but gives a good overview
https://www.dalet.com/blog/what-mam-media-asset-management/

On Tue, 19 Oct 2021 15:21:00 +0100, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
wrote:

>On 19/10/2021 11:31, SH wrote:
>>
>> On 19/10/2021 11:16, Tweed wrote:
>>>
>>> SH <i.love@spam.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Simply that the disaster recovery plans should have also had
>>>> accessibilty provision included at the design and planning stage for
>>>> reaasons of accessibility and inclusion under the equality act 2010.
>>>>
>>> They did. It didn’t work.
>
>A class action would sharpen the minds wonderfully for its replacement then.
>
>> well they should be testing their DR plans as part of BC (business
>> continuity) annual stress testing, as in to positively confirm tha the
>> DR is fit for purpose.
>
>That doesn't always go according to plan, either! I've told this story
>before here, but it was several years ago, so in the current discussion
>perhaps it bears repeating ...
>
>I used to be IT Support Person in residence for a large business office.
>One day, an engineer arrives at reception and I am summoned. He flashes
>his credentials, and says he has come to test the UPS.
>
>I take him up to the Equipment Room (you know, where the air is nice and
>cool), and he busies himself over the UPS while I do one or two chores
>like change the backup tapes. Eventually he says: "Yes! That all seems
>to be in order. It just remains to test it!"
>
>"Ok!", says I, expecting him to attach some sort of electrical load.
>After a pause pregnant with significance, he adds: "Er, you have to do
>that!"
>
>"Right ho!", I say cheerily, unusually slow at sensing danger, "What's
>to be done?"
>
>"You throw this switch here!", he says, pointing to the electricity
>supply to all the cabinets.
>
>Aghast now, I make frantic phone calls trying to find someone a little
>more senior! "Surely this can't be right?", I query, but it was.
>
>So I throws the switch, and there's a collective groan from all the
>cabinets as all the disks spin down, eerily echoed within a minute by
>the staff out in the office as they realise that the network has gone
>down and they're in danger of losing their work.
>
>After restoring the supply, and touring the building to calm the staff
>and explain things, the first thing I notice when I return and examine
>the UPS for myself is that the casing of the battery is split! I write
>a stern email to my superiors about the stupidity of such a test taking
>place during office hours, and suggesting that in failing to spot the
>split battery, the engineer was incompetent.
>
>I am not popular for a while, but, on the plus side, none of us in any
>office are ever asked to repeat such a damn-fool test again!

Yes, it does seem a bit like a fire drill that consists of actually
setting the building on fire. That wouldn't be popular either.

Rod.

On Tue, 19 Oct 2021 10:18:36 +0100, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)"
<briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>I am given to understand that they are saying that the Audio description
>will be mostly missing for some weeks, until they can get a permanent fix to
>the ad hoc distribution.
> However only a couple of nights ago, I heard AD on CH4, so wondered if
>there are some transmitters affected and some not. I am served by Crystal
>Palace.
> It is true that More 4 is still in drainpipe sound mode but I do not know
>enough about what their other channels do in AD to know if they are
>affected.
> It does seem strange to me, that as other broadcasters seem to have mostly
>coped, why CH4 cannot. Is Freesat and Virgin and online affected as well? I
>guess it depends where they get the feed from.
> Once again it shows how important blind peoples needs are considered to be
>when the chips are down, they just dump us.
> B

Freesat is affected too
--

Martin in Zuid Holland

On 20/10/2021 10:10, Tweed wrote:
> And for all those that say DR kit should be regularly exercised - who is to
> say it was not? In my experience things tend to work until they don’t. Just
> because the subtitle playout gizmo worked last month doesn’t mean it will
> work the next time you turn it on. I’ve lost count of the number of people
> stood before me with a bit of dead kit who protest that it was working fine
> yesterday.

All too often individual parts or tested but not the whole system
because it cause problems if it did not work!

During my time we changed to testing diesels by just pulling the main
breaker and taking power off the whole site. That would have been
unthinkable previously.

On 20/10/2021 10:20, Mark Carver wrote:
> BTW I didn't realise C4 (and its siblings) was so popular in this group
> ?

Just general interest and admitedly some satisfaction in seeing Channel
4 in trouble after what they have done to what used to occasionally be a
channel worth watching

On 20/10/2021 10:21, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> Yes, it does seem a bit like a fire drill that consists of actually
> setting the building on fire. That wouldn't be popular either.

But it is the only valid way to test a UPS.

A system we looked after had a big problem after a UPS failed to take
the load. It had been test frequently but never by putting onto full load.