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aus+uk / uk.tech.digital-tv / Re: BT Digital Voice

SubjectAuthor
* BT Digital VoiceNorman Wells
+* Re: BT Digital VoiceBrian Gregory
|+- Re: BT Digital VoiceJeff Layman
|+* Re: BT Digital VoiceMark Carver
||+* Re: BT Digital VoiceNorman Wells
|||+* Re: BT Digital VoiceAndy Burns
||||`* Re: BT Digital VoiceAndy Burns
|||| `* Re: BT Digital VoicePamela
||||  +- Re: BT Digital VoiceTweed
||||  +* Re: BT Digital VoiceAndy Burns
||||  |`- Re: BT Digital VoicePamela
||||  +* Re: BT Digital VoiceR. Mark Clayton
||||  |`* Re: BT Digital VoiceTweed
||||  | `- Re: BT Digital VoiceR. Mark Clayton
||||  `- Re: BT Digital VoiceBrian Gregory
|||`* Re: BT Digital VoiceMB
||| +* Re: BT Digital VoiceTweed
||| |`* Re: BT Digital VoiceTim+
||| | +* Re: BT Digital VoiceTony Gamble
||| | |+* Re: BT Digital VoiceMark Carver
||| | ||`* Re: BT Digital VoiceTweed
||| | || `* Re: BT Digital Voicealan_m
||| | ||  +* Re: BT Digital VoiceIndy Jess John
||| | ||  |+* Re: BT Digital VoiceMB
||| | ||  ||`- Re: BT Digital VoiceR. Mark Clayton
||| | ||  |+* Re: BT Digital VoiceMark Carver
||| | ||  ||+* Re: BT Digital VoiceMB
||| | ||  |||`* Re: BT Digital Voicecharles
||| | ||  ||| `- Re: BT Digital VoiceMB
||| | ||  ||+* Re: BT Digital VoiceTweed
||| | ||  |||`* Re: BT Digital VoiceMB
||| | ||  ||| +* Re: BT Digital Voicecharles
||| | ||  ||| |`* Re: BT Digital VoiceTweed
||| | ||  ||| | +- Re: BT Digital VoiceMark Carver
||| | ||  ||| | `- Re: BT Digital VoiceAndy Burns
||| | ||  ||| `* Re: BT Digital VoiceMax Demian
||| | ||  |||  `* Re: BT Digital VoiceMB
||| | ||  |||   `- Re: BT Digital VoiceMax Demian
||| | ||  ||+* Re: BT Digital Voicetim...
||| | ||  |||+- Re: BT Digital VoiceMark Carver
||| | ||  |||`- Re: BT Digital VoiceIndy Jess John
||| | ||  ||`- Re: BT Digital VoiceR. Mark Clayton
||| | ||  |`* Re: BT Digital VoiceTweed
||| | ||  | `* Re: BT Digital Voicetim...
||| | ||  |  +- Re: BT Digital VoiceTweed
||| | ||  |  +* Re: BT Digital Voicecharles
||| | ||  |  |`- Re: BT Digital VoiceRobin
||| | ||  |  `- Re: BT Digital VoiceR. Mark Clayton
||| | ||  `- Re: BT Digital VoiceBrian Gregory
||| | |+- Re: BT Digital VoiceAndy Burns
||| | |+- Re: BT Digital VoiceSH
||| | |+* Re: BT Digital VoiceTim+
||| | ||+* Re: BT Digital VoiceDavid Barnicoat
||| | |||+- Re: BT Digital VoiceMB
||| | |||`- Re: BT Digital VoiceTim+
||| | ||`* Re: BT Digital VoiceSH
||| | || `* Re: BT Digital VoiceTim+
||| | ||  `* Re: BT Digital VoiceSH
||| | ||   +- Re: BT Digital VoiceTim+
||| | ||   `* Re: BT Digital VoiceVir Campestris
||| | ||    `- Re: BT Digital VoiceSH
||| | |`* Re: BT Digital Voicetim...
||| | | `* Re: BT Digital VoiceTony Gamble
||| | |  +* Re: BT Digital VoiceWilf
||| | |  |`- Re: BT Digital VoiceTweed
||| | |  +* Re: BT Digital Voicecharles
||| | |  |`- Re: BT Digital VoiceTony Gamble
||| | |  `* Re: BT Digital VoiceTim+
||| | |   `- Re: BT Digital VoiceMB
||| | `* Re: BT Digital VoiceNorman Wells
||| |  +- Re: BT Digital VoiceTweed
||| |  `* Re: BT Digital Voicetim...
||| |   `- Re: BT Digital VoiceNorman Wells
||| +* Re: BT Digital Voicecharles
||| |+* Re: BT Digital VoiceMB
||| ||+* Re: BT Digital VoiceTweed
||| |||`- Re: BT Digital Voicetim...
||| ||`* Re: BT Digital VoiceWilf
||| || +* Re: BT Digital VoiceMB
||| || |+* Re: BT Digital VoiceTweed
||| || ||`* Re: BT Digital VoiceNorman Wells
||| || || +* Re: BT Digital VoiceTweed
||| || || |`* Re: BT Digital VoiceMax Demian
||| || || | `* Re: BT Digital VoiceBrian Gregory
||| || || |  `- Re: BT Digital VoiceTweed
||| || || `* Re: BT Digital VoiceNorman Wells
||| || ||  `* Re: BT Digital VoiceRobin
||| || ||   `* Re: BT Digital VoiceNorman Wells
||| || ||    `- Re: BT Digital VoiceTony Gamble
||| || |+* Re: BT Digital VoiceWoody
||| || ||+* Re: BT Digital VoiceWilf
||| || |||`* Re: BT Digital VoiceIndy Jess John
||| || ||| +* Re: BT Digital VoiceTweed
||| || ||| |`- Re: BT Digital VoiceChris J Dixon
||| || ||| `* Re: BT Digital VoiceWoody
||| || |||  `- Re: BT Digital VoiceTweed
||| || ||`* Re: BT Digital Voicecharles
||| || || `- Re: BT Digital VoiceIndy Jess John
||| || |`* Re: BT Digital Voicetim...
||| || | `- Re: BT Digital VoiceMB
||| || `- Re: BT Digital Voicetim...
||| |`* Re: BT Digital VoiceRoderick Stewart
||| +* Re: BT Digital VoiceTim+
||| +- Re: BT Digital VoiceR. Mark Clayton
||| `* Re: BT Digital VoiceTony Gamble
||`- Re: BT Digital VoiceBrian Gaff \(Sofa\)
|`- Re: BT Digital VoiceBrian Gaff \(Sofa\)
+* Re: BT Digital VoiceSH
+- Re: BT Digital VoiceBrian Gaff \(Sofa\)
+* Re: BT Digital VoicePamela
+* Re: BT Digital Voicetim...
`- Re: BT Digital VoiceVir Campestris

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Re: BT Digital Voice

<rusnmghheqiapndbhaps53740hbdhlu5mj@4ax.com>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=27736&group=uk.tech.digital-tv#27736

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From: rjf...@escapetime.myzen.co.uk (Roderick Stewart)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: BT Digital Voice
Message-ID: <rusnmghheqiapndbhaps53740hbdhlu5mj@4ax.com>
References: <ishnj3FjqacU1@mid.individual.net> <isi9k7Fn2hjU1@mid.individual.net> <isia6tFn5s1U1@mid.individual.net> <sk15an$nm0$1@dont-email.me> <5979b67665charles@candehope.me.uk> <dim8mgdrvqmdj5a22cro48p0nisgjq40cr@4ax.com> <01qemg5bt4indbqd4t7r2pt8lqhjiike81@4ax.com> <jgofmgl0rhvktn35eea2ef83fpdsrccvs3@4ax.com> <skgjir$sgj$1@dont-email.me> <7964dfda-baff-e19c-7d84-0458b033a9ce@outlook.com> <skgmjj$cm3$1@dont-email.me> <e41f0528-9f86-5fb2-f4a6-a5b32cc5e2f8@outlook.com>
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Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2021 11:17:13 +0100
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 by: Roderick Stewart - Sun, 17 Oct 2021 10:17 UTC

On Sun, 17 Oct 2021 09:48:36 +0100, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:

>>>>> Same here. Mine's the latest one on Microsoft's list that they won't
>>>>> support. If it was the next one - a 3400G instead of a 2400G - then
>>>>> that would be fine, but not the older one. I only built this computer
>>>>> a few years ago and its performance is more than good enough for my
>>>>> needs, so I reckon it has potentially many more years of life left in
>>>>> it except for Microsoft's apparently arbitrary decision.
>>>>
>>>> which arbitrary decision is that?
>>>>
>>>> surely MS are going to support W10 for years for those people who can't
>>>> (don't want to) upgrade
>>>>
>>>
>>> +3.99
>>>
>>>
>> Dates from Microsoft
>>
>>
>> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows-10-home-and-pro
>>
>> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows-10-enterprise-and-education
>>
>> Now, I suspect reality will catch up with Microsoft, but you’ll probably
>> only get a year or two beyond those dates.
>>
>
>yes - and clearly I should have explained that 3.99 is the number of
>years from today that MS will support W10 home/pro for those people who
>can't (don't want to) upgrade

The arbitrary decision by Microsoft is that for reasons of their own
they will support one thing but won't support another. The decision
has no obvious physical reason, in that there won't be anything wrong
with the hardware, much of which has potentially many more years of
life beyond 2025, but because the purveyors of the most widely used
software platform on the planet will have reneged on their promise to
support it forever, most of that perfectly good hardware will end up
being junked.

Yes, we know it could continue to function using Linux, but
realistically only a tiny proportion of computer users are likely to
go down this path. Most will just buy a new computer because they
don't know what else to do, and people who purchase equipment for
businesses are spending other people's money so they'll just buy what
they already know.

Rod.

Re: BT Digital Voice

<skgtke$n2f$1@dont-email.me>

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From: usenet.t...@gmail.com (Tweed)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: BT Digital Voice
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2021 10:24:14 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Tweed - Sun, 17 Oct 2021 10:24 UTC

Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Oct 2021 09:48:36 +0100, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>> Same here. Mine's the latest one on Microsoft's list that they won't
>>>>>> support. If it was the next one - a 3400G instead of a 2400G - then
>>>>>> that would be fine, but not the older one. I only built this computer
>>>>>> a few years ago and its performance is more than good enough for my
>>>>>> needs, so I reckon it has potentially many more years of life left in
>>>>>> it except for Microsoft's apparently arbitrary decision.
>>>>>
>>>>> which arbitrary decision is that?
>>>>>
>>>>> surely MS are going to support W10 for years for those people who can't
>>>>> (don't want to) upgrade
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> +3.99
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Dates from Microsoft
>>>
>>>
>>> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows-10-home-and-pro
>>>
>>> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows-10-enterprise-and-education
>>>
>>> Now, I suspect reality will catch up with Microsoft, but you’ll probably
>>> only get a year or two beyond those dates.
>>>
>>
>> yes - and clearly I should have explained that 3.99 is the number of
>> years from today that MS will support W10 home/pro for those people who
>> can't (don't want to) upgrade
>
> The arbitrary decision by Microsoft is that for reasons of their own
> they will support one thing but won't support another. The decision
> has no obvious physical reason, in that there won't be anything wrong
> with the hardware, much of which has potentially many more years of
> life beyond 2025, but because the purveyors of the most widely used
> software platform on the planet will have reneged on their promise to
> support it forever, most of that perfectly good hardware will end up
> being junked.
I’m wondering if someone, presumably in the US, will bring a court case
based on the well trailed publicity that Windows 10 would be the last ever
version and would be continuously updated.

Re: BT Digital Voice

<ac98caea-4b4e-2e42-985c-3517bfb6b161@outlook.com>

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From: rbw...@outlook.com (Robin)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: BT Digital Voice
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2021 11:27:07 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Robin - Sun, 17 Oct 2021 10:27 UTC

On 17/10/2021 11:17, Roderick Stewart wrote:
<snip>

> The arbitrary decision by Microsoft is that for reasons of their own
> they will support one thing but won't support another. The decision
> has no obvious physical reason, in that there won't be anything wrong
> with the hardware, much of which has potentially many more years of
> life beyond 2025, but because the purveyors of the most widely used
> software platform on the planet will have reneged on their promise to
> support it forever, most of that perfectly good hardware will end up
> being junked.
>
MS never promised to support it forever. That was a just some people's
line based on a throwaway comment by an MS employee in 2015 which MS
never endorsed.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Re: BT Digital Voice

<skgv25$vqc$1@dont-email.me>

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From: usenet.t...@gmail.com (Tweed)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: BT Digital Voice
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2021 10:48:37 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Tweed - Sun, 17 Oct 2021 10:48 UTC

Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
> On 17/10/2021 11:17, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> <snip>
>
>> The arbitrary decision by Microsoft is that for reasons of their own
>> they will support one thing but won't support another. The decision
>> has no obvious physical reason, in that there won't be anything wrong
>> with the hardware, much of which has potentially many more years of
>> life beyond 2025, but because the purveyors of the most widely used
>> software platform on the planet will have reneged on their promise to
>> support it forever, most of that perfectly good hardware will end up
>> being junked.
>>
> MS never promised to support it forever. That was a just some people's
> line based on a throwaway comment by an MS employee in 2015 which MS
> never endorsed.
>
>
That’s not how most people would interpret what was said and subsequently
confirmed by a Microsoft spokesperson

https://www.theverge.com/2015/5/7/8568473/windows-10-last-version-of-windows

When I reached out to Microsoft about Nixon's comments, the company didn't
dismiss them at all. "Recent comments at Ignite about Windows 10 are
reflective of the way Windows will be delivered as a service bringing new
innovations and updates in an ongoing manner, with continuous value for our
consumer and business customers," says a Microsoft spokesperson in a
statement to The Verge. "We aren’t speaking to future branding at this
time, but customers can be confident Windows 10 will remain up-to-date and
power a variety of devices from PCs to phones to Surface Hub to HoloLens
and Xbox. We look forward to a long future of Windows innovations."

Re: BT Digital Voice

<53c213a1-4105-b39c-9da7-df659808a038@outlook.com>

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From: rbw...@outlook.com (Robin)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: BT Digital Voice
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2021 13:15:34 +0100
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 by: Robin - Sun, 17 Oct 2021 12:15 UTC

On 17/10/2021 11:48, Tweed wrote:
> Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
>> On 17/10/2021 11:17, Roderick Stewart wrote:
>> <snip>
>>
>>> The arbitrary decision by Microsoft is that for reasons of their own
>>> they will support one thing but won't support another. The decision
>>> has no obvious physical reason, in that there won't be anything wrong
>>> with the hardware, much of which has potentially many more years of
>>> life beyond 2025, but because the purveyors of the most widely used
>>> software platform on the planet will have reneged on their promise to
>>> support it forever, most of that perfectly good hardware will end up
>>> being junked.
>>>
>> MS never promised to support it forever. That was a just some people's
>> line based on a throwaway comment by an MS employee in 2015 which MS
>> never endorsed.
>>
>>
> That’s not how most people would interpret what was said and subsequently
> confirmed by a Microsoft spokesperson
>
> https://www.theverge.com/2015/5/7/8568473/windows-10-last-version-of-windows
>
> When I reached out to Microsoft about Nixon's comments, the company didn't
> dismiss them at all. "Recent comments at Ignite about Windows 10 are
> reflective of the way Windows will be delivered as a service bringing new
> innovations and updates in an ongoing manner, with continuous value for our
> consumer and business customers," says a Microsoft spokesperson in a
> statement to The Verge. "We aren’t speaking to future branding at this
> time, but customers can be confident Windows 10 will remain up-to-date and
> power a variety of devices from PCs to phones to Surface Hub to HoloLens
> and Xbox. We look forward to a long future of Windows innovations."
>

Most people may or may not have thought that but sticking to facts, MS
made explicit in July 2015 a commitment to 10 years support. NB W10
wasn't on sale before July 2015.

E.g.

https://www.computerworld.com/article/2949230/all-editions-of-windows-10-get-10-years-of-updates-support.html

"Microsoft today refreshed its Windows support lifecycle fact sheet to
include Windows 10, saying there that it would provide updates to the
new OS for 10 years, or until October 2025.

The new information puts to rest one of the biggest remaining questions
about Windows 10: what has Microsoft meant since January by describing
the policy as running for the supported lifetime of the device when it
described the operating system's support timeline?

"The traditional 10-year support lifecycle applies to all SKUs
[stock-keeping units]," a Microsoft spokeswoman confirmed in a follow-up
email [emphasis added]. SKUs represent the various editions of the OS,
such as Windows 10 Home, the primary consumer-grade version, Windows 10
Pro and Windows 10 Enterprise."

and

"Microsoft's insertion of of Windows 10 in the lifecycle support fact
sheet -- and more importantly, the usual promise to support the OS for a
decade -- closes the company's mysterious use of supported lifetime of
the device whenever it described the policy for Windows 10 or was asked
to clarify its meaning, which it repeatedly declined to do.

The phrase first popped up in January, when Microsoft announced an
unprecedented free upgrade offer to Windows 10 from several SKUs of
Windows 7 and 8.1. "Once a device is upgraded to Windows 10, we will be
keeping it current for the supported lifetime of the device," said Terry
Myerson, then the head of the Windows group,.

Myerson used the same phrase in a blog post last month when he revealed
the OS's July 29 release date. "And Windows 10 provides the most secure
platform ever, including Windows Defender for free anti-malware
protection, and being the only platform with a commitment to deliver
free ongoing security updates for the supported lifetime of the device."

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Re: BT Digital Voice

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From: RadicalR...@theburrow.co.uk
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: BT Digital Voice
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2021 14:59:39 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: RadicalR...@theburrow.co.uk - Sun, 17 Oct 2021 14:59 UTC

On Sun, 17 Oct 2021 10:05:39 -0000 (UTC)
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
><RadicalRabbit@theburrow.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Sun, 17 Oct 2021 09:57:03 +0100
>> MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>>> On 17/10/2021 08:32, tim... wrote:
>>>> which arbitrary decision is that?
>>>>
>>>> surely MS are going to support W10 for years for those people who can't
>>>> (don't want to) upgrade
>>>>
>>>> As they have also done previously
>>>
>>> There are probably plenty of people who still use Windows XP without any
>>> problems in places with no connection to the outside world.
>>>
>>> At work we had two Windows 3.1 (???) laptops that we used for
>>> programming the radios in some emergency service vehicles. The software
>>> would not run reliably on any later versions despite many people
>>> claiming to have found ways to make it run.
>>
>> Thats not clever. The OS isn't the problem , its the hardware. If those
>> laptops died you'd be hard pressed to find something else to install 3.1 on
>> as it certainly won't be installing on modern hardware because even if
>someone
>> did get it working with UEFI it won't recognise a SATA disk never mind PCIe.
>>
>>
>
>VMWare is your friend here.

Not if you want low level control of hardware it isn't. Guess it would depend
how those radios are programmeed - if its a standard port then would probably
work but if it required some wierd dongle then all bets are off.

Re: BT Digital Voice

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From: MB...@nospam.net (MB)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: BT Digital Voice
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2021 16:16:53 +0100
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 by: MB - Sun, 17 Oct 2021 15:16 UTC

On 17/10/2021 13:15, Robin wrote:
> "Microsoft today refreshed its Windows support lifecycle fact sheet to
> include Windows 10, saying there that it would provide updates to the
> new OS for 10 years, or until October 2025.

How many other products are supported for ten years? Most electronic
items seem a year or so, if you are lucky.

It is normally left to third parties to support older items.

I have several Canon cameras, not sure of the age but they are certainly
not ancient. The Canon software for downloading pictures got unreliable
a few years ago and now rarely works so you have to take the card out of
camera each time. I have complained on their user forums but they are
not interested.

Re: BT Digital Voice

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From: usenet.t...@gmail.com (Tweed)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: BT Digital Voice
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2021 15:22:12 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Tweed - Sun, 17 Oct 2021 15:22 UTC

MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 17/10/2021 13:15, Robin wrote:
>> "Microsoft today refreshed its Windows support lifecycle fact sheet to
>> include Windows 10, saying there that it would provide updates to the
>> new OS for 10 years, or until October 2025.
>
> How many other products are supported for ten years? Most electronic
> items seem a year or so, if you are lucky.
>
> It is normally left to third parties to support older items.
>
> I have several Canon cameras, not sure of the age but they are certainly
> not ancient. The Canon software for downloading pictures got unreliable
> a few years ago and now rarely works so you have to take the card out of
> camera each time. I have complained on their user forums but they are
> not interested.
>
>

If you purchased a Win10 machine last month that doesn’t meet the Win11
hardware requirements you’ve got 4 years.

Win11 is very differently previous OS releases. Previously, with one or two
exceptions, you’ve always had the opportunity to migrate to the new OS.
Microsoft seems to be aiming for a mass extinction event this time round.

Re: BT Digital Voice

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Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: BT Digital Voice
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 by: MB - Sun, 17 Oct 2021 16:59 UTC

On 17/10/2021 16:22, Tweed wrote:
> If you purchased a Win10 machine last month that doesn’t meet the Win11
> hardware requirements you’ve got 4 years.
>
> Win11 is very differently previous OS releases. Previously, with one or two
> exceptions, you’ve always had the opportunity to migrate to the new OS.
> Microsoft seems to be aiming for a mass extinction event this time round.
>

It seems unlikely that a new PC bought now would not be Windows 11
compatible

Re: BT Digital Voice

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From: rjf...@escapetime.myzen.co.uk (Roderick Stewart)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: BT Digital Voice
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 by: Roderick Stewart - Sun, 17 Oct 2021 17:52 UTC

On Sun, 17 Oct 2021 17:59:29 +0100, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:

>On 17/10/2021 16:22, Tweed wrote:
>> If you purchased a Win10 machine last month that doesn’t meet the Win11
>> hardware requirements you’ve got 4 years.
>>
>> Win11 is very differently previous OS releases. Previously, with one or two
>> exceptions, you’ve always had the opportunity to migrate to the new OS.
>> Microsoft seems to be aiming for a mass extinction event this time round.
>>
>
>It seems unlikely that a new PC bought now would not be Windows 11
>compatible

Anything new bought from a dealer now will probably run it, but there
must be hundreds of millions of computers already in use today that
have nothing wrong with them and will still be physically capable of
running well beyond 2025, provided the software would let them.

Previously there was the option of upgrading to a newer version of
Windows, while accepting that although it may not give full
performance in some cases at least it would work. This time they're
making sure that it won't.

Rod.

Re: BT Digital Voice

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From: nom...@here.org (The Other John)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: BT Digital Voice
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2021 18:44:25 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: The Other John - Sun, 17 Oct 2021 18:44 UTC

On Sun, 17 Oct 2021 18:52:32 +0100, Roderick Stewart wrote:

> Previously there was the option of upgrading to a newer version of
> Windows, while accepting that although it may not give full performance
> in some cases at least it would work. This time they're making sure that
> it won't.

There are lots of videos on YouTube showing how to install Win 11 on
'unsupported' PCs, including instructions from Microsoft (with
reservations).

--
TOJ

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 by: Brian Gregory - Sun, 17 Oct 2021 23:42 UTC

On 17/10/2021 10:26, RadicalRabbit@theburrow.co.uk wrote:
> Thats not clever. The OS isn't the problem , its the hardware. If those
> laptops died you'd be hard pressed to find something else to install 3.1 on
> as it certainly won't be installing on modern hardware because even if someone
> did get it working with UEFI it won't recognise a SATA disk never mind PCIe.

You could almost definitely make W3.1 run in a virtual machine quite easily.

I still have a DOS program that needs to talk directly to a parallel
port and it runs okay in a Virtualbox virtual machine and talks to a
parallel port on a PCI card.

The parallel port card would probably be very difficult to replace, it
was quite difficult enough to find one sufficiently compatible back when
I first set it up, but that requirement is just for my example usage.
Apart from that I think anyone could easily do it.

--
Brian Gregory (in England).

Re: BT Digital Voice

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From: rjf...@escapetime.myzen.co.uk (Roderick Stewart)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: BT Digital Voice
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 by: Roderick Stewart - Mon, 18 Oct 2021 07:45 UTC

On Sun, 17 Oct 2021 18:44:25 -0000 (UTC), The Other John
<nomail@here.org> wrote:

>On Sun, 17 Oct 2021 18:52:32 +0100, Roderick Stewart wrote:
>
>> Previously there was the option of upgrading to a newer version of
>> Windows, while accepting that although it may not give full performance
>> in some cases at least it would work. This time they're making sure that
>> it won't.
>
>There are lots of videos on YouTube showing how to install Win 11 on
>'unsupported' PCs, including instructions from Microsoft (with
>reservations).

Yes, you can do this, but apparently you then don't get any updates. A
new unsupported operating system doesn't seem to me to be any better
than an old unsupported operating system. I'd rather not have those
"reservations" but continue with something guaranteed to work.

In any case, some of the hacks seem to require tinkering with registry
values. The proportion of computer owners who are likely to consider
doing this is probably even less than the proportion who will consider
replacing Windows with Linux.

Rod.

Re: BT Digital Voice

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From: bathwatc...@OMITTHISgooglemail.com (Indy Jess John)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: BT Digital Voice
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2021 09:20:34 +0100
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 by: Indy Jess John - Mon, 18 Oct 2021 08:20 UTC

On 17/10/2021 10:26, RadicalRabbit@theburrow.co.uk wrote:

>> At work we had two Windows 3.1 (???) laptops that we used for
>> programming the radios in some emergency service vehicles. The software
>> would not run reliably on any later versions despite many people
>> claiming to have found ways to make it run.
>
> That's not clever. The OS isn't the problem , its the hardware. If those
> laptops died you'd be hard pressed to find something else to install 3.1 on
> as it certainly won't be installing on modern hardware because even if someone
> did get it working with UEFI it won't recognise a SATA disk never mind PCIe.
>
There are plenty of second hand laptops on ebay that don't use UEFI, and
because they are older technology they are cheap.
Windows 3.1 is just a program, it isn't an operating system like the
later Windows versions. All it needs is DOS. Mine (years ago) ran under
DOS 5, but I think any DOS greater than Version 3 is OK.

If my business depended on obsolete software,I would already have a
spare laptop, and I would have cloned the live disc onto the disc in the
spare laptop, so that it would be ready to go when needed.

Jim

Re: BT Digital Voice

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From: nom...@here.org (The Other John)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: BT Digital Voice
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2021 13:54:09 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: The Other John - Mon, 18 Oct 2021 13:54 UTC

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 08:45:48 +0100, Roderick Stewart wrote:

> Yes, you can do this, but apparently you then don't get any updates.

I refer my learned friend to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meV2FtifexI

--
TOJ

Re: BT Digital Voice

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From: rjf...@escapetime.myzen.co.uk (Roderick Stewart)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: BT Digital Voice
Message-ID: <qq6rmgljddoip879l6bho95v1qg21918qo@4ax.com>
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 by: Roderick Stewart - Mon, 18 Oct 2021 16:07 UTC

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 13:54:09 -0000 (UTC), The Other John
<nomail@here.org> wrote:

>On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 08:45:48 +0100, Roderick Stewart wrote:
>
>> Yes, you can do this, but apparently you then don't get any updates.
>
>I refer my learned friend to:
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meV2FtifexI

Well, that looks encouraging. Let's hope it's still possible in 2025.
Maybe somebody will have created an app to do all the tedious registry
stuff by then.

Rod.

Re: BT Digital Voice

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From: timsnew...@gmail.com (tim...)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: BT Digital Voice
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2021 09:01:17 +0100
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 by: tim... - Fri, 22 Oct 2021 08:01 UTC

"Tweed" <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:skgkmv$2i4$1@dont-email.me...
> tim... <timsnews99@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Roderick Stewart" <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:jgofmgl0rhvktn35eea2ef83fpdsrccvs3@4ax.com...
>>> On Thu, 14 Oct 2021 00:14:03 +0100, BrightsideS9
>>> <reply_to_address_is_not@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 11 Oct 2021 16:43:41 +0100, Roderick Stewart
>>>> <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 11 Oct 2021 12:35:03 +0100, charles <charles@candehope.me.uk>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> BT have said they are not keeping their POTS (copper wire) service
>>>>>> beyond
>>>>>> 2025. They won't make exceptions for 'luddites'.
>>>>>
>>>>> That might seem like a long time, but I reckon most people will know
>>>>> nothing about this until the day it happens.
>>>>>
>>>>> Which means that as well as millions of people with computers that are
>>>>> insecure because Windows 10 is no longer supported and they can't be
>>>>> upgraded to Windows 11 (more than 50% of them can't apparently), their
>>>>> phones won't work either. 2025 will be a busy year.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sadly mine cannot be upgraded, wrong AMD [processor. Its done 14
>>>> years
>>>
>>> Same here. Mine's the latest one on Microsoft's list that they won't
>>> support. If it was the next one - a 3400G instead of a 2400G - then
>>> that would be fine, but not the older one. I only built this computer
>>> a few years ago and its performance is more than good enough for my
>>> needs, so I reckon it has potentially many more years of life left in
>>> it except for Microsoft's apparently arbitrary decision.
>>
>> which arbitrary decision is that?
>>
>> surely MS are going to support W10 for years for those people who can't
>> (don't want to) upgrade
>>
>> As they have also done previously
>>
>>
> Current end of life date for Windows 10 variants that consumers gave
> access
> to is 2025. Various Enterprise versions go on longer.

so another 4 years then

on equipment that routinely has an every 3 year upgrade cycle

Can't see the problem here

Re: BT Digital Voice

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From: usenet.t...@gmail.com (Tweed)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: BT Digital Voice
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2021 08:04:23 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Tweed - Fri, 22 Oct 2021 08:04 UTC

tim... <timsnews99@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> "Tweed" <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:skgkmv$2i4$1@dont-email.me...
>> tim... <timsnews99@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "Roderick Stewart" <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:jgofmgl0rhvktn35eea2ef83fpdsrccvs3@4ax.com...
>>>> On Thu, 14 Oct 2021 00:14:03 +0100, BrightsideS9
>>>> <reply_to_address_is_not@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 11 Oct 2021 16:43:41 +0100, Roderick Stewart
>>>>> <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 11 Oct 2021 12:35:03 +0100, charles <charles@candehope.me.uk>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BT have said they are not keeping their POTS (copper wire) service
>>>>>>> beyond
>>>>>>> 2025. They won't make exceptions for 'luddites'.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That might seem like a long time, but I reckon most people will know
>>>>>> nothing about this until the day it happens.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Which means that as well as millions of people with computers that are
>>>>>> insecure because Windows 10 is no longer supported and they can't be
>>>>>> upgraded to Windows 11 (more than 50% of them can't apparently), their
>>>>>> phones won't work either. 2025 will be a busy year.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sadly mine cannot be upgraded, wrong AMD [processor. Its done 14
>>>>> years
>>>>
>>>> Same here. Mine's the latest one on Microsoft's list that they won't
>>>> support. If it was the next one - a 3400G instead of a 2400G - then
>>>> that would be fine, but not the older one. I only built this computer
>>>> a few years ago and its performance is more than good enough for my
>>>> needs, so I reckon it has potentially many more years of life left in
>>>> it except for Microsoft's apparently arbitrary decision.
>>>
>>> which arbitrary decision is that?
>>>
>>> surely MS are going to support W10 for years for those people who can't
>>> (don't want to) upgrade
>>>
>>> As they have also done previously
>>>
>>>
>> Current end of life date for Windows 10 variants that consumers gave
>> access
>> to is 2025. Various Enterprise versions go on longer.
>
> so another 4 years then
>
> on equipment that routinely has an every 3 year upgrade cycle
>
> Can't see the problem here
>
Do you throw your own domestic IT kit away every 3 years?

Re: BT Digital Voice

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From: bathwatc...@OMITTHISgooglemail.com (Indy Jess John)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: BT Digital Voice
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 by: Indy Jess John - Fri, 22 Oct 2021 09:19 UTC

On 22/10/2021 09:04, Tweed wrote:
> tim...<timsnews99@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Tweed"<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:skgkmv$2i4$1@dont-email.me...
>>> tim...<timsnews99@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>>> Same here. Mine's the latest one on Microsoft's list that they won't
>>>>> support. If it was the next one - a 3400G instead of a 2400G - then
>>>>> that would be fine, but not the older one. I only built this computer
>>>>> a few years ago and its performance is more than good enough for my
>>>>> needs, so I reckon it has potentially many more years of life left in
>>>>> it except for Microsoft's apparently arbitrary decision.
>>>>
>>>> which arbitrary decision is that?
>>>>
>>>> surely MS are going to support W10 for years for those people who can't
>>>> (don't want to) upgrade
>>>>
>>>> As they have also done previously
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Current end of life date for Windows 10 variants that consumers gave
>>> access
>>> to is 2025. Various Enterprise versions go on longer.
>>
>> so another 4 years then
>>
>> on equipment that routinely has an every 3 year upgrade cycle
>>
>> Can't see the problem here
>>
> Do you throw your own domestic IT kit away every 3 years?
>
I certainly don't. A bigger and faster disc, and extra RAM make quite a
difference, and the old processor and motherboard are fully up to the
job of running the applications I use. I will probably be too senile to
use it by the time the hardware gives up the ghost.

By insisting on certain more recent developments for Win 11, Microsoft
are shooting themselves in the foot as far as I am concerned. If they
start to kill off Win 10 to twist arms to migrate, I still have the
installation DVD for Windows 7 and I will happily revert instead.

Jim

Re: BT Digital Voice

<sku3a2$2ag$1@dont-email.me>

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From: timsnew...@gmail.com (tim...)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: BT Digital Voice
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2021 11:20:49 +0100
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 by: tim... - Fri, 22 Oct 2021 10:20 UTC

"Tweed" <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:sktra7$dph$1@dont-email.me...
> tim... <timsnews99@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Tweed" <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:skgkmv$2i4$1@dont-email.me...
>>> tim... <timsnews99@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Roderick Stewart" <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>> news:jgofmgl0rhvktn35eea2ef83fpdsrccvs3@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Thu, 14 Oct 2021 00:14:03 +0100, BrightsideS9
>>>>> <reply_to_address_is_not@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 11 Oct 2021 16:43:41 +0100, Roderick Stewart
>>>>>> <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, 11 Oct 2021 12:35:03 +0100, charles
>>>>>>> <charles@candehope.me.uk>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> BT have said they are not keeping their POTS (copper wire) service
>>>>>>>> beyond
>>>>>>>> 2025. They won't make exceptions for 'luddites'.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That might seem like a long time, but I reckon most people will know
>>>>>>> nothing about this until the day it happens.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Which means that as well as millions of people with computers that
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> insecure because Windows 10 is no longer supported and they can't be
>>>>>>> upgraded to Windows 11 (more than 50% of them can't apparently),
>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>> phones won't work either. 2025 will be a busy year.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sadly mine cannot be upgraded, wrong AMD [processor. Its done 14
>>>>>> years
>>>>>
>>>>> Same here. Mine's the latest one on Microsoft's list that they won't
>>>>> support. If it was the next one - a 3400G instead of a 2400G - then
>>>>> that would be fine, but not the older one. I only built this computer
>>>>> a few years ago and its performance is more than good enough for my
>>>>> needs, so I reckon it has potentially many more years of life left in
>>>>> it except for Microsoft's apparently arbitrary decision.
>>>>
>>>> which arbitrary decision is that?
>>>>
>>>> surely MS are going to support W10 for years for those people who can't
>>>> (don't want to) upgrade
>>>>
>>>> As they have also done previously
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Current end of life date for Windows 10 variants that consumers gave
>>> access
>>> to is 2025. Various Enterprise versions go on longer.
>>
>> so another 4 years then
>>
>> on equipment that routinely has an every 3 year upgrade cycle
>>
>> Can't see the problem here
>>
> Do you throw your own domestic IT kit away every 3 years?

4-5

It becomes sluggish due to all the crap that's built up on it (and the ever
expanding CPU expectation of software that runs on it)

Re: BT Digital Voice

<sku4cn$94v$1@dont-email.me>

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From: usenet.t...@gmail.com (Tweed)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: BT Digital Voice
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2021 10:39:19 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Tweed - Fri, 22 Oct 2021 10:39 UTC

tim... <timsnews99@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> "Tweed" <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:sktra7$dph$1@dont-email.me...
>> tim... <timsnews99@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "Tweed" <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:skgkmv$2i4$1@dont-email.me...
>>>> tim... <timsnews99@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Roderick Stewart" <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>>> news:jgofmgl0rhvktn35eea2ef83fpdsrccvs3@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Thu, 14 Oct 2021 00:14:03 +0100, BrightsideS9
>>>>>> <reply_to_address_is_not@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, 11 Oct 2021 16:43:41 +0100, Roderick Stewart
>>>>>>> <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 11 Oct 2021 12:35:03 +0100, charles
>>>>>>>> <charles@candehope.me.uk>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> BT have said they are not keeping their POTS (copper wire) service
>>>>>>>>> beyond
>>>>>>>>> 2025. They won't make exceptions for 'luddites'.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That might seem like a long time, but I reckon most people will know
>>>>>>>> nothing about this until the day it happens.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Which means that as well as millions of people with computers that
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>> insecure because Windows 10 is no longer supported and they can't be
>>>>>>>> upgraded to Windows 11 (more than 50% of them can't apparently),
>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>> phones won't work either. 2025 will be a busy year.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sadly mine cannot be upgraded, wrong AMD [processor. Its done 14
>>>>>>> years
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Same here. Mine's the latest one on Microsoft's list that they won't
>>>>>> support. If it was the next one - a 3400G instead of a 2400G - then
>>>>>> that would be fine, but not the older one. I only built this computer
>>>>>> a few years ago and its performance is more than good enough for my
>>>>>> needs, so I reckon it has potentially many more years of life left in
>>>>>> it except for Microsoft's apparently arbitrary decision.
>>>>>
>>>>> which arbitrary decision is that?
>>>>>
>>>>> surely MS are going to support W10 for years for those people who can't
>>>>> (don't want to) upgrade
>>>>>
>>>>> As they have also done previously
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Current end of life date for Windows 10 variants that consumers gave
>>>> access
>>>> to is 2025. Various Enterprise versions go on longer.
>>>
>>> so another 4 years then
>>>
>>> on equipment that routinely has an every 3 year upgrade cycle
>>>
>>> Can't see the problem here
>>>
>> Do you throw your own domestic IT kit away every 3 years?
>
> 4-5
>
> It becomes sluggish due to all the crap that's built up on it (and the ever
> expanding CPU expectation of software that runs on it)
>
>
In the past but no more. CPU performance on the desktop for anything other
than specialist cases has outpaced software demands for at least the last 5
to 10 years. Strangely enough I don’t suffer from the alleged slow down
over time, but I’m careful on what I install. Anyway, it’s easily fixed
with a wipe and reinstall if it is a genuine problem. It’s certainly no
reason to throw the machine away.

Re: BT Digital Voice

<vsja4i-q8k3.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>

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From: cl...@isbd.net (Chris Green)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: BT Digital Voice
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2021 12:29:03 +0100
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 by: Chris Green - Fri, 22 Oct 2021 11:29 UTC

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
> tim... <timsnews99@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Do you throw your own domestic IT kit away every 3 years?
> >
> > 4-5
> >
> > It becomes sluggish due to all the crap that's built up on it (and the ever
> > expanding CPU expectation of software that runs on it)
> >
> >
> In the past but no more. CPU performance on the desktop for anything other
> than specialist cases has outpaced software demands for at least the last 5
> to 10 years. Strangely enough I don’t suffer from the alleged slow down
> over time, but I’m careful on what I install. Anyway, it’s easily fixed
> with a wipe and reinstall if it is a genuine problem. It’s certainly no
> reason to throw the machine away.
>
Yes, that's my experience too, it's very rarely that I ever run any
program that really works my processor very hard. If it ever hits
100% processor usage it's nearly always because something has gone
wrong.

--
Chris Green
·

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