On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 07:22:02 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <tk6m5hh53thhjao0pikormiovmnmoo8gi6@4ax.com>, at 20:41:14 on
>Sat, 16 Apr 2022, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>remarked:
>>On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 16:07:14 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In message <t3dv07$gbo$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:33:12 on Sat, 16 Apr
>>>2022, MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>>>>On 16/04/2022 08:01, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>
>>>>> In other words just one dual carriageway in perhaps an entire county
>>>>> where everything else is single carriageway.
>>>>
>>>>They always go after the easy targets.
>><reinserted for context>
>>>>I remember years ago a letter in the local paper from a local
>>>>councillor. There is only one section of reasonably wide road on the A82
>>>>between Fort William and Inverness where you can guarantee being able to
>>>>fairly safely overtake. Guess where the Talivan liked to park!
>>>
>>>Perhaps they do, but I doubt the majority of speeding offences in the
>>>county were committed on that one stretch of road. Which is where we
>>>came in.
>>>
>>Such stretches of road also tend to be where accidents happen, often
>>involving impatient drivers who refuse to wait their turn to overtake
>>or for when it is safe to do so.
>
>I suppose you'll have some statistics for the KSI per passenger
>kilometer comparing different roads in that county?
>
>But don't forget to also dig out the statistics for the number of
>vehicles speeding on that road, compared to the rest of the county.
>
With the A9 it is particular lengths/junctions rather than counties
which have the problem (the latest collision was this morning at one
of the junctions:-
https://news.stv.tv/east-central/a9-closed-in-both-directions-following-serious-collision-near-dunblane)
the Ralia straight near Newtonmore/Kingussie being also one such
place. Idiotic overtaking seems to feature a lot in court cases.

Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 07:22:02 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> In message <tk6m5hh53thhjao0pikormiovmnmoo8gi6@4ax.com>, at 20:41:14 on
>> Sat, 16 Apr 2022, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>> remarked:
>>> On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 16:07:14 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <t3dv07$gbo$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:33:12 on Sat, 16 Apr
>>>> 2022, MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>>>>> On 16/04/2022 08:01, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> In other words just one dual carriageway in perhaps an entire county
>>>>>> where everything else is single carriageway.
>>>>>
>>>>> They always go after the easy targets.
>>> <reinserted for context>
>>>>> I remember years ago a letter in the local paper from a local
>>>>> councillor. There is only one section of reasonably wide road on the A82
>>>>> between Fort William and Inverness where you can guarantee being able to
>>>>> fairly safely overtake. Guess where the Talivan liked to park!
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps they do, but I doubt the majority of speeding offences in the
>>>> county were committed on that one stretch of road. Which is where we
>>>> came in.
>>>>
>>> Such stretches of road also tend to be where accidents happen, often
>>> involving impatient drivers who refuse to wait their turn to overtake
>>> or for when it is safe to do so.
>>
>> I suppose you'll have some statistics for the KSI per passenger
>> kilometer comparing different roads in that county?
>>
>> But don't forget to also dig out the statistics for the number of
>> vehicles speeding on that road, compared to the rest of the county.
>>
> With the A9 it is particular lengths/junctions rather than counties
> which have the problem (the latest collision was this morning at one
> of the junctions:-
> https://news.stv.tv/east-central/a9-closed-in-both-directions-following-serious-collision-near-dunblane)
> the Ralia straight near Newtonmore/Kingussie being also one such
> place. Idiotic overtaking seems to feature a lot in court cases.

One of the issues with the A9 north of Perth is that it is laid out without
many straights, and therefore with few opportunities to overtake. The
current dualling project(s) and the experimental, effectively permanent 50
mph limit for HGVs are attempts to mitigate the frustration arising. The
50 limit is reported to have reduced accidents significantly.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On 17/04/2022 22:46, Sam Wilson wrote:
> One of the issues with the A9 north of Perth is that it is laid out without
> many straights, and therefore with few opportunities to overtake. The
> current dualling project(s) and the experimental, effectively permanent 50
> mph limit for HGVs are attempts to mitigate the frustration arising. The
> 50 limit is reported to have reduced accidents significantly.

It does not have significantly high accident rates than the other main
routes, despite what the Inverness lobby claimed to get the money spent
on dualling it.

I find the mixture now of dual and single carriageway makes it appear
more dangerous.

On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 23:15:27 +0100, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:

>On 17/04/2022 22:46, Sam Wilson wrote:
>> One of the issues with the A9 north of Perth is that it is laid out without
>> many straights, and therefore with few opportunities to overtake. The
>> current dualling project(s) and the experimental, effectively permanent 50
>> mph limit for HGVs are attempts to mitigate the frustration arising. The
>> 50 limit is reported to have reduced accidents significantly.
>
>It does not have significantly high accident rates than the other main
>routes, despite what the Inverness lobby claimed to get the money spent
>on dualling it.
>
>I find the mixture now of dual and single carriageway makes it appear
>more dangerous.
>
The high rates are at locations making up a small proportion of the
length of the A9; the whole road has a low accident rate. Going the
other way, one road near Newtonmore/Laggan was previously described as
the "most dangerous" in Scotland despite having few accidents, the
claim was based on it being a relatively short-distance classified
road between two other much longer roads.

On 18/04/2022 04:26, Charles Ellson wrote:
> The high rates are at locations making up a small proportion of the
> length of the A9; the whole road has a low accident rate. Going the
> other way, one road near Newtonmore/Laggan was previously described as
> the "most dangerous" in Scotland despite having few accidents, the
> claim was based on it being a relatively short-distance classified
> road between two other much longer roads.

Inverness politicians used that to get funding for dualling the A9. It
is a very long road so will have more accidents than a shorter one so
they would be vague about whether talking about the number of accidents
or the accident rate.

I never felt particularly at risk when using the old single-carriageway
A9, you could easily keep up a good average speed and were rarely held
up by slow moving the traffic. Unlike the A82 where you often just have
to accept that you are not going to be able to overtake and even if you
do manage to then it will just get you one position up the line of traffic.

MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 17/04/2022 22:46, Sam Wilson wrote:
>> One of the issues with the A9 north of Perth is that it is laid out without
>> many straights, and therefore with few opportunities to overtake. The
>> current dualling project(s) and the experimental, effectively permanent 50
>> mph limit for HGVs are attempts to mitigate the frustration arising. The
>> 50 limit is reported to have reduced accidents significantly.
>
> It does not have significantly high accident rates than the other main
> routes, despite what the Inverness lobby claimed to get the money spent
> on dualling it.
>
> I find the mixture now of dual and single carriageway makes it appear
> more dangerous.

Now? For the last 10 years or so that I’ve been driving it regularly the
A9 has always been a mix, and there are only two new sections of dual
carriageway that have opened in the the last few years. The 50 limit was
introduced in 2014 and there seems to be a generally downward trend,
anyway.

<https://www.gov.scot/publications/foi-202000112385/>
<https://www.transport.gov.scot/media/42374/evaluation-report-june-2018-a9-perth-to-inverness-hgv-50mph-trial.pdf>

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On 18/04/2022 15:39, Sam Wilson wrote:
> Now? For the last 10 years or so that I’ve been driving it regularly the
> A9 has always been a mix, and there are only two new sections of dual
> carriageway that have opened in the the last few years. The 50 limit was
> introduced in 2014 and there seems to be a generally downward trend,
> anyway.

I have been using it since there was grass down the middle of the
carriageway. :-)

Well at least, all normal width single carriageway.