Anybody know WHY Pujara was suspended?

It appears he is ONLY responsible for two charges and two of his team
members responsible for the other two charges.

So, why is he made RESPONSIBLE for ALL 4 charges and suspended?

==================================================================

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/sussex-docked-12-points-cheteshwar-pujara-suspended-fourth-disciplinary-charge-1399027?ci-platform=native&adobe_mc=TS=1695047537%7CMCMID=57304003552936764086253184988648473231%7CMCAID=2E2F8CE885314686-4000011760054B7D%7CMCORGID=EE0201AC512D2BE80A490D4C@AdobeOrg

Sussex docked 12 points, Pujara suspended after fourth disciplinary charge

Jack Carson, Tom Haines and Ari Karvelas also made unavailable after
incidents in Leicestershire win
ESPNcricinfo staff
18-Sep-2023

Sussex have been docked 12 points in the County Championship and will be
without their captain, Cheteshwar Pujara, for this week's match against
Derbyshire. Pujara received an automatic suspension after the club
reached the threshold of four fixed penalties in the same season.

Sussex have also made the decision to stand down three players - Jack
Carson, Tom Haines and Ari Karvelas - for behaviour that in the words of
head coach, Paul Farbrace, "tarnished" the dramatic, 15-run win over
Leicestershire last week.

Victory over their promotion rivals at Hove had kept Sussex in
contention to go up, but they have now dropped to fifth in the table, 30
points behind second-placed Worcestershire with two games of the season
left.

Carson, the 22-year-old England Lions offspinner, was spoken to by the
umpires during Leicestershire's fourth-innings chase of 499 after
appearing to try to trip Ben Cox while the batter was completing a run
at the non-striker's end. He apologised via the Sussex website for
"crossing the line in what is deemed acceptable within the spirit of
cricket".

Opener Haines, who is Sussex's One-Day Cup captain, also issued an
apology after a heated final day on which the home side were spoken to
about excessive appealing. Fast bowler Karvelas will remain unavailable
while an investigation "into an incident in the Leicestershire game" is
carried out.

"We have made Jack and Tom unavailable for selection for this game at
Derbyshire," Farbrace said. "Following the umpires and match referee's
decision to charge both players with on-field level one and level two
offences, we needed to take a stance, and show them we will not condone
such behaviours.

"Ultimately it has cost us the availability of Cheteshwar and we have
been deducted 12 points.

"We have also decided it is not appropriate for Ari Karvelas to be made
available for selection until the investigation that is in place has
been concluded.

"This provides other players in our squad with a great opportunity to
show they can perform at this level, and more importantly contribute
towards the team challenging to win matches in the County Championship.

"It is a great shame that these incidents have tarnished what was a
fantastic game against Leicestershire, and all the hard work that has
gone into the season. I am disappointed for our fantastic members and
supporters and can assure them we will be working hard to make sure we
are not in this position again."

Sussex had previously been sanctioned twice by the umpires in the early
part of the season, with Pujara guilty of a Level 1 offence in the
opening game against Durham and Haines reprimanded similarly after the
visit of Yorkshire to Hove.

On 22/09/2023 10:42, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer wrote:
> Anybody know WHY Pujara was suspended?
> It appears he is ONLY responsible for two charges and two of his team
> members responsible for the other two charges.
> So, why is he made RESPONSIBLE for ALL 4 charges and suspended?

Two of the charges are from earlier in the season, so he has now
accumulated four, which is an automatic suspension. As captain, he bears
a general responsibility for the behaviour of his team, which apparently
left something to be desired. Sussex appear to be siding with, and indeed
going further than, the ECB, so everyone seems to think the penalties fair
enough. [The BBC report at

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/66844560

differs in some significant details from the CI report you quoted.]

--
Andy Walker, Nottingham.
Andy's music pages: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music
Composer of the day: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music/Composers/Hertel

On 9/22/2023 3:57 AM, Andy Walker wrote:
> On 22/09/2023 10:42, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer wrote:
>> Anybody know WHY Pujara was suspended?
>> It appears he is ONLY responsible for two charges and two of his team
>> members responsible for the other two charges.
>> So, why is he made RESPONSIBLE for ALL 4 charges and suspended?
>
>     Two of the charges are from earlier in the season, so he has now
> accumulated four, which is an automatic suspension.  As captain, he bears
> a general responsibility for the behaviour of his team,

What IF he didn't know how a couple of his team members are gonna behave
and commit those actions which deserved disciplinary actions?

>which apparently
> left something to be desired.  Sussex appear to be siding with, and indeed
> going further than, the ECB, so everyone seems to think the penalties fair
> enough.  [The BBC report at
>
>   https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/66844560
>
> differs in some significant details from the CI report you quoted.]
>

On Sat, 23 Sep 2023 09:57:36 -0700, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
<FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer@america.com> wrote:

>On 9/22/2023 3:57 AM, Andy Walker wrote:
>> On 22/09/2023 10:42, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer wrote:
>>> Anybody know WHY Pujara was suspended?
>>> It appears he is ONLY responsible for two charges and two of his team
>>> members responsible for the other two charges.
>>> So, why is he made RESPONSIBLE for ALL 4 charges and suspended?
>>
>>     Two of the charges are from earlier in the season, so he has now
>> accumulated four, which is an automatic suspension.  As captain, he bears
>> a general responsibility for the behaviour of his team,
>
>
>
>What IF he didn't know how a couple of his team members are gonna behave
>and commit those actions which deserved disciplinary actions?
>
>

It doesn't matter the captain is always responsible for his team's
conduct on the field.

max.it
>
>>which apparently
>> left something to be desired.  Sussex appear to be siding with, and indeed
>> going further than, the ECB, so everyone seems to think the penalties fair
>> enough.  [The BBC report at
>>
>>   https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/66844560
>>
>> differs in some significant details from the CI report you quoted.]
>>

On 23/09/2023 17:57, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer wrote:
> On 9/22/2023 3:57 AM, Andy Walker wrote:
>> [...] As captain, he bears
>> a general responsibility for the behaviour of his team, [...].
> What IF he didn't know how a couple of his team members are gonna
> behave and commit those actions which deserved disciplinary actions?

You've presumably seen the same reports that I have. No-one from
here who may have been at the match has commented, so we have to go from
those reports. I don't believe Pujara would have been directly responsible
for any isolated incidents caused by [other] players doing things in the
heat of the moment. But more general discipline and the response to any
such incidents are down to the captain and to the club. [I /think/ that's
what "max.it" meant to imply, but perhaps he takes a stronger line?]

As Sussex and Pujara are not appealing either the suspension or the
points deduction, and the club has imposed further sanctions, it seems that
they accept the penalties without cavil. I don't see how we can usefully
comment further?

--
Andy Walker, Nottingham.
Andy's music pages: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music
Composer of the day: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music/Composers/Bach,CPE

On 9/23/2023 12:15 PM, Andy Walker wrote:
> On 23/09/2023 17:57, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer wrote:
>> On 9/22/2023 3:57 AM, Andy Walker wrote:
>>> [...] As captain, he bears
>>> a general responsibility for the behaviour of his team, [...].
>> What IF he didn't know how a couple of his team members are gonna
>> behave and commit those actions which deserved disciplinary actions?
>
>     You've presumably seen the same reports that I have.  No-one from
> here who may have been at the match has commented, so we have to go from
> those reports.  I don't believe Pujara would have been directly responsible
> for any isolated incidents caused by [other] players doing things in the
> heat of the moment.  But more general discipline and the response to any
> such incidents are down to the captain and to the club.  [I /think/ that's
> what "max.it" meant to imply, but perhaps he takes a stronger line?]
>
>     As Sussex and Pujara are not appealing either the suspension or the
> points deduction,

Indians for the most part are SUBMISSIVE because of 1000 year slavery
and hence Pujara WON'T complain or contest.

IF I am Pujara I would contest and request them to penalize the players
who actually transgressed because I have NO CONTROL over other players
behavior in the heat of the moment.

I can give pep talk in the dressing room to my team as a captain BUT
STILL players can get emotional and transgress during the match.

>and the club has imposed further sanctions, it seems that
> they accept the penalties without cavil.  I don't see how we can usefully
> comment further?
>

On 9/23/2023 11:40 AM, max.it wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Sep 2023 09:57:36 -0700, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
> <FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer@america.com> wrote:
>
>> On 9/22/2023 3:57 AM, Andy Walker wrote:
>>> On 22/09/2023 10:42, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer wrote:
>>>> Anybody know WHY Pujara was suspended?
>>>> It appears he is ONLY responsible for two charges and two of his team
>>>> members responsible for the other two charges.
>>>> So, why is he made RESPONSIBLE for ALL 4 charges and suspended?
>>>
>>>     Two of the charges are from earlier in the season, so he has now
>>> accumulated four, which is an automatic suspension.  As captain, he bears
>>> a general responsibility for the behaviour of his team,
>>
>>
>>
>> What IF he didn't know how a couple of his team members are gonna behave
>> and commit those actions which deserved disciplinary actions?
>>
>>
>
> It doesn't matter the captain is always responsible for his team's
> conduct on the field.
>
> max.it

But should it be SO or should it be changed?

Captain can tell his team to behave BUT individual players can CROSS THE
LINE in the heat of the moment.

So, why should captains be punished for it?

>>
>>> which apparently
>>> left something to be desired.  Sussex appear to be siding with, and indeed
>>> going further than, the ECB, so everyone seems to think the penalties fair
>>> enough.  [The BBC report at
>>>
>>>   https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/66844560
>>>
>>> differs in some significant details from the CI report you quoted.]
>>>

On Sat, 23 Sep 2023 13:28:33 -0700, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
<FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer@america.com> wrote:

>On 9/23/2023 11:40 AM, max.it wrote:
>> On Sat, 23 Sep 2023 09:57:36 -0700, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
>> <FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer@america.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 9/22/2023 3:57 AM, Andy Walker wrote:
>>>> On 22/09/2023 10:42, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer wrote:
>>>>> Anybody know WHY Pujara was suspended?
>>>>> It appears he is ONLY responsible for two charges and two of his team
>>>>> members responsible for the other two charges.
>>>>> So, why is he made RESPONSIBLE for ALL 4 charges and suspended?
>>>>
>>>>     Two of the charges are from earlier in the season, so he has now
>>>> accumulated four, which is an automatic suspension.  As captain, he bears
>>>> a general responsibility for the behaviour of his team,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What IF he didn't know how a couple of his team members are gonna behave
>>> and commit those actions which deserved disciplinary actions?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> It doesn't matter the captain is always responsible for his team's
>> conduct on the field.
>>
>> max.it
>
>
>
>But should it be SO or should it be changed?
>
>Captain can tell his team to behave BUT individual players can CROSS THE
>LINE in the heat of the moment.
>
>So, why should captains be punished for it?
>
>
>
>
>>>
>>>> which apparently
>>>> left something to be desired.  Sussex appear to be siding with, and indeed
>>>> going further than, the ECB, so everyone seems to think the penalties fair
>>>> enough.  [The BBC report at
>>>>
>>>>   https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/66844560
>>>>
>>>> differs in some significant details from the CI report you quoted.]
>>>>

Law 1.4 Responsibility of captains

The captains are responsible at all times for ensuring that play is
conducted within The Spirit of Cricket as well as within the Laws. See
The Preamble – The Spirit of Cricket and Law 41.1 (Fair and unfair
play – responsibility of captains).

If some twat from BP left the tap on a ruined the ocean with oil it's
the CEO who loses his bollox for it (but probably not his bonus;-)

max.it

On 23/09/2023 21:28, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer wrote:
> IF I am Pujara I would contest and request them to penalize the
> players who actually transgressed because I have NO CONTROL over
> other players behavior in the heat of the moment.

Both ECB and Sussex /did/ penalise those players.

> I can give pep talk in the dressing room to my team as a captain BUT
> STILL players can get emotional and transgress during the match.

Tripping up a player is indeed not a behaviour over which the
captain is likely to have much control. But excessive appealing /is/
something the captain can do something about: "Cool it, chaps, we need
calm heads to win this match!" [eg, after a quiet word from the umpires].
A word from the captain might also have calmed the players down so that
they weren't over-excited to the extent of tripping players up.

We weren't at the match, and have only the media reports to go
on. I don't see anything there to suggest that the penalties were in
any way wrong, excessive or biased. The general opinion seemed to be
that behaviour on the field had spoiled what was otherwise a cracking
match.

--
Andy Walker, Nottingham.
Andy's music pages: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music
Composer of the day: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music/Composers/Mendelssohn

On 9/23/2023 5:05 PM, Andy Walker wrote:
> On 23/09/2023 21:28, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer wrote:
>> IF I am Pujara I would contest and request them to penalize the
>> players who actually transgressed because I have NO CONTROL over
>> other players behavior in the heat of the moment.
>
>     Both ECB and Sussex /did/ penalise those players.
>
>> I can give pep talk in the dressing room to my team as a captain BUT
>> STILL players can get emotional and transgress during the match.
>
>     Tripping up a player is indeed not a behaviour over which the
> captain is likely to have much control.  But excessive appealing /is/
> something the captain can do something about:  "Cool it, chaps, we need
> calm heads to win this match!" [eg, after a quiet word from the umpires].
> A word from the captain might also have calmed the players down so that
> they weren't over-excited to the extent of tripping players up.
>
>     We weren't at the match, and have only the media reports to go
> on.  I don't see anything there to suggest that the penalties were in
> any way wrong, excessive or biased.

Agreed.

My only point is IF it is FAIR to penalize the captain so much.

>The general opinion seemed to be
> that behaviour on the field had spoiled what was otherwise a cracking
> match.
>