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aus+uk / uk.railway / One million half-price rail tickets offer to boost tourism and ease cost squeeze

SubjectAuthor
* One million half-price rail tickets offer to boost tourismRecliner
+- One million half-price rail tickets offer to boost tourism andRolf Mantel
`* One million half-price rail tickets offer to boost tourism and ease cost squeezeRoland Perry
 +* One million half-price rail tickets offer to boost tourism and ease cost squeezeTheo
 |`* One million half-price rail tickets offer to boost tourism and ease cost squeezeRoland Perry
 | `* One million half-price rail tickets offer to boostRecliner
 |  +* One million half-price rail tickets offer to boost tourism andNY
 |  |`* One million half-price rail tickets offer to boost tourism andCertes
 |  | `- One million half-price rail tickets offer to boost tourism and ease cost squeezeRoland Perry
 |  `- One million half-price rail tickets offer to boost tourism and ease cost squeezeRoland Perry
 `- One million half-price rail tickets offer to boost tourism and ease cost squeezeRoland Perry

1
One million half-price rail tickets offer to boost tourism and ease cost squeeze

<t3l27s$jlg$1@dont-email.me>

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From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: One million half-price rail tickets offer to boost tourism
and ease cost squeeze
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 01:11:24 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Recliner - Tue, 19 Apr 2022 01:11 UTC

<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c8f159ba-bf47-11ec-b4e3-203ad1be3cbc?shareToken=b2026bbd46e4435ea1c1138e61ad18c4>

Re: One million half-price rail tickets offer to boost tourism and ease cost squeeze

<t3lttl$job$1@dont-email.me>

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From: new...@hartig-mantel.de (Rolf Mantel)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: One million half-price rail tickets offer to boost tourism and
ease cost squeeze
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 11:03:48 +0200
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 by: Rolf Mantel - Tue, 19 Apr 2022 09:03 UTC

Am 19.04.2022 um 03:11 schrieb Recliner:
> <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c8f159ba-bf47-11ec-b4e3-203ad1be3cbc?shareToken=b2026bbd46e4435ea1c1138e61ad18c4>

In a similar vein, Germany will offer monthly tickets for €9, probably
covering all of Germany, for June, July and August. The details
(regional traffic only or including ICE) are just being discussed.

<https://www.zeit.de/mobilitaet/2022-04/neun-euro-ticket-pro-bahn>

Rolf

Re: One million half-price rail tickets offer to boost tourism and ease cost squeeze

<oosvchR+JoXiFAcG@perry.uk>

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: One million half-price rail tickets offer to boost tourism and ease cost squeeze
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 10:35:58 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Tue, 19 Apr 2022 09:35 UTC

In message <t3l27s$jlg$1@dont-email.me>, at 01:11:24 on Tue, 19 Apr
2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

><https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c8f159ba-bf47-11ec-b4e3-203ad1be3cbc
>?shareToken=b2026bbd46e4435ea1c1138e61ad18c4>

According to DfT statistics there were 3.2billion rail trips in 2018/19,
of which 57% were commuting or business.

That leaves around 100m a month for other purposes.

The public, who generally have trouble understanding "big numbers",
probably think 1% of those being done at cut-price is some sort of
massive concession.

We'll have to do some mystery shopping, of course, but it's not
immediately clear to me how they'd administer quotas for half-price
walk-up tickets. Relatively easy for AP tickets, you just temporarily
add one extra lower-priced tier on selected services.

Or when they say "off peak", do they really mean "the subset of AP
tickets issued for use on trains during off-peak periods"?
--
Roland Perry

Re: One million half-price rail tickets offer to boost tourism and ease cost squeeze

<RJg*h56Ly@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>

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From: theom+n...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Theo)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: One million half-price rail tickets offer to boost tourism and ease cost squeeze
Date: 19 Apr 2022 14:29:03 +0100 (BST)
Organization: University of Cambridge, England
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 by: Theo - Tue, 19 Apr 2022 13:29 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> We'll have to do some mystery shopping, of course, but it's not
> immediately clear to me how they'd administer quotas for half-price
> walk-up tickets. Relatively easy for AP tickets, you just temporarily
> add one extra lower-priced tier on selected services.
>
> Or when they say "off peak", do they really mean "the subset of AP
> tickets issued for use on trains during off-peak periods"?

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/apr/19/government-plan-to-tempt-uk-back-to-trains-dismissed-as-gimmick
"targeted at intercity travel at quiet times"
suggests it's just tweaking down the prices of AP tickets, rather than
anything that would help commuters or people going on local trips.

I thought long distance leisure travel was the sector doing best at the
moment, and the one least in need of encouragement?

Theo

Re: One million half-price rail tickets offer to boost tourism and ease cost squeeze

<oDjfm2oActXiFAut@perry.uk>

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: One million half-price rail tickets offer to boost tourism and ease cost squeeze
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 16:36:32 +0100
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 by: Roland Perry - Tue, 19 Apr 2022 15:36 UTC

In message <RJg*h56Ly@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 14:29:03 on Tue,
19 Apr 2022, Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> We'll have to do some mystery shopping, of course, but it's not
>> immediately clear to me how they'd administer quotas for half-price
>> walk-up tickets. Relatively easy for AP tickets, you just temporarily
>> add one extra lower-priced tier on selected services.
>>
>> Or when they say "off peak", do they really mean "the subset of AP
>> tickets issued for use on trains during off-peak periods"?
>
>https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/apr/19/government-plan-to-temp
>t-uk-back-to-trains-dismissed-as-gimmick

>"targeted at intercity travel at quiet times"

>suggests it's just tweaking down the prices of AP tickets, rather than
>anything that would help commuters

They were excluded by strong implication.

>or people going on local trips.

One of their handful of examples was Leeds-to-York. Which seems pretty
local to me.

>I thought long distance leisure travel was the sector doing best at the
>moment, and the one least in need of encouragement?

Dunno, some appropriate statistics would be useful.
--
Roland Perry

Re: One million half-price rail tickets offer to boost tourism and ease cost squeeze

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From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: One million half-price rail tickets offer to boost
tourism and ease cost squeeze
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 20:15:34 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Recliner - Tue, 19 Apr 2022 20:15 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <RJg*h56Ly@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 14:29:03 on Tue,
> 19 Apr 2022, Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> We'll have to do some mystery shopping, of course, but it's not
>>> immediately clear to me how they'd administer quotas for half-price
>>> walk-up tickets. Relatively easy for AP tickets, you just temporarily
>>> add one extra lower-priced tier on selected services.
>>>
>>> Or when they say "off peak", do they really mean "the subset of AP
>>> tickets issued for use on trains during off-peak periods"?
>>
>> https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/apr/19/government-plan-to-temp
>> t-uk-back-to-trains-dismissed-as-gimmick
>
>> "targeted at intercity travel at quiet times"
>
>> suggests it's just tweaking down the prices of AP tickets, rather than
>> anything that would help commuters
>
> They were excluded by strong implication.
>
>> or people going on local trips.
>
> One of their handful of examples was Leeds-to-York. Which seems pretty
> local to me.

"Meanwhile, it appears that the cheap tickets are only available on slower
journeys. For instance a £1.50 fare between York and Leeds was only
available on a 31 minute journey rather than the fastest 23 minute trip."

<https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/04/19/grant-shapps-bargain-train-ticket-deals-descend-farce/>

>
>> I thought long distance leisure travel was the sector doing best at the
>> moment, and the one least in need of encouragement?
>
> Dunno, some appropriate statistics would be useful.

Same source:

Mr Shapps, the Transport Secretary, insisted that the half-price sale would
help households hit by the cost of living crisis.

But Norman Baker, a former transport minister, said such claims were “a bit
of a red herring” as the discounts were not available during peak hours
when commuters typically travel.

Mr Baker, a spokesman for the Campaign for Better Transport, said: “It’s
not enough but it's a good first step.

“When [people] get back on the railways, they can see the trains are safe,
they are clean and by and large they are punctual.”

However, he added that the sale would be no comfort to the estimated one
million daily rail commuters.

“It is aimed at leisure travel; off-peak travel. And actually looking at
the figures from two weeks ago, leisure travel was at 102pc of where it was
pre-Covid.”

Re: One million half-price rail tickets offer to boost tourism and ease cost squeeze

<VtydnS5tUclZocL_nZ2dnUU7-TXNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>

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 by: NY - Tue, 19 Apr 2022 22:50 UTC

On 19/04/2022 21:15, Recliner wrote:
> "Meanwhile, it appears that the cheap tickets are only available on slower
> journeys. For instance a £1.50 fare between York and Leeds was only
> available on a 31 minute journey rather than the fastest 23 minute trip."

What's the betting that it will only be valid on the round-the-houses
route via Harrogate which is advertised (at Leeds) as having a
destination of Poppleton (the last station before York), and is
advertised (at York) as having a destination of Burley Park (the last
station before Leeds), to avoid people using it for the full Leeds-York
journey and finding that takes a lot longer that the via-Micklefield route.

Re: One million half-price rail tickets offer to boost tourism and ease cost squeeze

<t3neqr$a70$1@dont-email.me>

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From: non...@nowhere.net (Certes)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: One million half-price rail tickets offer to boost tourism and
ease cost squeeze
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 23:58:34 +0100
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 by: Certes - Tue, 19 Apr 2022 22:58 UTC

On 19/04/2022 23:50, NY wrote:
> On 19/04/2022 21:15, Recliner wrote:
>> "Meanwhile, it appears that the cheap tickets are only available on
>> slower
>> journeys. For instance a £1.50 fare between York and Leeds was only
>> available on a 31 minute journey rather than the fastest 23 minute trip."
>
> What's the betting that it will only be valid on the round-the-houses
> route via Harrogate which is advertised (at Leeds) as having a
> destination of Poppleton (the last station before York), and is
> advertised (at York) as having a destination of Burley Park (the last
> station before Leeds), to avoid people using it for the full Leeds-York
> journey and finding that takes a lot longer that the via-Micklefield route.

That route takes about 70 minutes rather than 31.

Another question is: what is the fare half of? If they're selling
train-specific advance purchase tickets at half the open single fare,
then better deals are often available already. This may be no better
than cheap tickets from [The] Trainline (or anywhere else) costing less
than full fare tickets from your local station (or anywhere else).

Re: One million half-price rail tickets offer to boost tourism and ease cost squeeze

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: One million half-price rail tickets offer to boost tourism and ease cost squeeze
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 08:24:57 +0100
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 by: Roland Perry - Wed, 20 Apr 2022 07:24 UTC

In message <t3neqr$a70$1@dont-email.me>, at 23:58:34 on Tue, 19 Apr
2022, Certes <none@nowhere.net> remarked:
>On 19/04/2022 23:50, NY wrote:
>> On 19/04/2022 21:15, Recliner wrote:
>>> "Meanwhile, it appears that the cheap tickets are only available on
>>>slower
>>> journeys. For instance a £1.50 fare between York and Leeds was only
>>> available on a 31 minute journey rather than the fastest 23 minute trip."
>> What's the betting that it will only be valid on the
>>round-the-houses route via Harrogate which is advertised (at Leeds)
>>as having a destination of Poppleton (the last station before York),
>>and is advertised (at York) as having a destination of Burley Park
>>(the last station before Leeds), to avoid people using it for the full
>>Leeds-York journey and finding that takes a lot longer that the
>>via-Micklefield route.
>
>That route takes about 70 minutes rather than 31.
>
>Another question is: what is the fare half of?

It's half the former lowest-rung AP ticket.

>If they're selling train-specific advance purchase tickets at half the
>open single fare, then better deals are often available already.

Because it's half the former lowest rung AP ticket, if there's still
availability it's genuinely cheaper than ever before.

>This may be no better than cheap tickets from [The] Trainline (or
>anywhere else) costing less than full fare tickets from your local
>station (or anywhere else).

On one hand I think regular AP tickets can be bought at stations
(although this special offer is online-only, which cuts out the
commission gained from the manual sales), on the other hand see my
mystery buying this morning for an overview of the lottery which is
the prices for individual journeys once availability has been taken
into account.
--
Roland Perry

Re: One million half-price rail tickets offer to boost tourism and ease cost squeeze

<rwZvKg8qa7XiFAMR@perry.uk>

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: One million half-price rail tickets offer to boost tourism and ease cost squeeze
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 08:30:50 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Wed, 20 Apr 2022 07:30 UTC

In message <t3n596$47l$1@dont-email.me>, at 20:15:34 on Tue, 19 Apr
2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

>>>> We'll have to do some mystery shopping, of course, but it's not
>>>> immediately clear to me how they'd administer quotas for half-price
>>>> walk-up tickets. Relatively easy for AP tickets, you just temporarily
>>>> add one extra lower-priced tier on selected services.
>>>>
>>>> Or when they say "off peak", do they really mean "the subset of AP
>>>> tickets issued for use on trains during off-peak periods"?
>>>
>>> https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/apr/19/government-plan-to-temp
>>> t-uk-back-to-trains-dismissed-as-gimmick
>>
>>> "targeted at intercity travel at quiet times"
>>
>>> suggests it's just tweaking down the prices of AP tickets, rather than
>>> anything that would help commuters
>>
>> They were excluded by strong implication.
>>
>>> or people going on local trips.
>>
>> One of their handful of examples was Leeds-to-York. Which seems pretty
>> local to me.
>
>"Meanwhile, it appears that the cheap tickets are only available on slower
>journeys. For instance a £1.50 fare between York and Leeds was only
>available on a 31 minute journey rather than the fastest 23 minute trip."

That'll be because it turns out these *are* selected Advance Purchase
fares, which as any fule kno, are TOC specific.

On routes with only one TOC, I suspect all trains are equal - and not
limited to just the slower ones. [Later... yes, confirmed by mystery
shopping Norwich-LST]

Greater Anglia have announced they have 90k such tickets available, with
the surprise extra restriction "Travel must be on a non-bank holiday
weekday"

They are half the price of the existing lowest-rung AP tickets (and we
all know how those sell out quickly[1]).

Cambridge to London Liverpool Street - £4 (These are all singles)
Norwich to London Liverpool Street - £5 "
Ipswich to London Liverpool Street - £5 "
Great Yarmouth/Lowestoft to LST - £6 "
Southend Victoria to LST - £3 "
Colchester to Norwich - £4 "

[1] Picked a random day, Weds 11th May, Cambridge-LST single.

05:20 & 05:51 £ 4 <- so it's not *only* off-peak, peak being 0430-0829
06:47 £18
07:17 £19.30
07:47 £18
08:18 £14
08:47 £12 <- first off-peak service
10:03 £10 <- that is the regular second rung AP price, so the
first-rung £8 is sold out as well as the special
offer £4.
11:03 £20.10 <- that's the walkup price, AP must be completely
sold out, or is there a zero-quota glitch; £14
on 12th but also £20.10 on 10th
12:03 - 22.03 £ 4 <- special price still within quota on all services
22:14 £30.50 <- via Kings Cross includes tube
22:20 £20.20 <- maybe another zero quota glitch; also £20.10
on 10th and 12th
22:50 £ 4
23:14 & 23.54 £27.50 <- via Kings Cross, then walk; presumably the tube
has shut by then.
--
Roland Perry

Re: One million half-price rail tickets offer to boost tourism and ease cost squeeze

<skjuv6P6rjZiFAco@perry.uk>

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: One million half-price rail tickets offer to boost tourism and ease cost squeeze
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2022 07:08:58 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Mon, 25 Apr 2022 06:08 UTC

In message <oosvchR+JoXiFAcG@perry.uk>, at 10:35:58 on Tue, 19 Apr 2022,
Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> remarked:
>In message <t3l27s$jlg$1@dont-email.me>, at 01:11:24 on Tue, 19 Apr
>2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>
>><https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c8f159ba-bf47-11ec-b4e3-203ad1be3cbc
>>?shareToken=b2026bbd46e4435ea1c1138e61ad18c4>
>
>According to DfT statistics there were 3.2billion rail trips in
>2018/19, of which 57% were commuting or business.
>
>That leaves around 100m a month for other purposes.
>
>The public, who generally have trouble understanding "big numbers",
>probably think 1% of those being done at cut-price is some sort of
>massive concession.

The Guardian has been doing the same sums, but revels a new hiccup:

"A million off-peak, mostly advance, train tickets have gone
on sale, discounted by up to 50%. To get the lower prices you have
to book by 23.59 on 2 May, and travel between 25 April and 27 May.
*************************

Before you get excited, you need to be aware that not all routes and
journeys are being discounted, and the period does not include half-
term (schools break up on 27 May). It does include the early May
bank holiday weekend [actully, only on some operators -ED]
....
One million tickets might sound like a large number but you need to
know that the usual number of rail journeys over the offer period is
more than 160m, so it is a tiny proportion. More than 170,000 tickets
were sold on the first day of the sale."

For bookings the DfT has set up a useful website,
<https://greatbritishrailsale.nationalrail.co.uk/#/great-british-rail-sal
ek>,
which will tell you if the discounted fares are available on your
chosen route.

<https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/apr/23/uk-train-tickets-the-grea
t-rail-sale-is-on-but-is-there-a-catch>

Which gives some rather strange answers for example Cambridge-Elephant
and Castle is the last one "from Cambridge". Is that baked in s one of
the million available, until someone buys it, or is it route that might
be available until a *total*of a million have been sold overall [or 2nd
May whichever is sooner].

Anyway, clicking through to *Show retailers* brings up an impressive
list of vendors, that I don't think I've seen in one place before. I've
added them to my ticketing FAQ:

http://www.perry.co.uk/avantix_for_dummies.html
--
Roland Perry

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