The timetable suggests that the service is now a few early and late
trains on Mon-Sat with a decent service on Sunday. The rest of the
trains run from Wrexham General. Is this because reliability was poor? I
commented last year that the timetable suggested that the northbound
train was timetabled to depart, IIRC, a minute before the southbound one
arrived.

This article...

https://www.leaderlive.co.uk/news/19097032.200-million-rail-upgrade-connect-north-wales-north-west-england/

.... suggests that the service may be extended under the Mersey, and that
a new station may be built in Deeside.

--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
International Rescue - Swell Maps

Basil Jet <basil@spamspamspam.com> wrote:
>
> The timetable suggests that the service is now a few early and late
> trains on Mon-Sat with a decent service on Sunday. The rest of the
> trains run from Wrexham General. Is this because reliability was poor? I
> commented last year that the timetable suggested that the northbound
> train was timetabled to depart, IIRC, a minute before the southbound one
> arrived.
>
>

The public times, IIRC, didn't account for the 3 minute recovery time
allowance, therefore the turnaround time was actually 2 minutes rather than
-1. Still not great for reliability.

The trains in red on
<https://timetables.fabdigital.uk/gbrtv1/081%20Liverpool%20and%20Birkenhead%20to%20New%20Brighton,%20Bidston,%20West%20Kirby,%20Shotton%20and%20Wrexham.pdf>
which are replaced by bus on certain days, are to allow a driver training
run by the Vivarail class 230 to run in place of the passenger train.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

On 02/07/2021 10:53, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
> Basil Jet <basil@spamspamspam.com> wrote:
>>
>> The timetable suggests that the service is now a few early and late
>> trains on Mon-Sat with a decent service on Sunday. The rest of the
>> trains run from Wrexham General. Is this because reliability was poor? I
>> commented last year that the timetable suggested that the northbound
>> train was timetabled to depart, IIRC, a minute before the southbound one
>> arrived.
>>
>>
>
> The public times, IIRC, didn't account for the 3 minute recovery time
> allowance, therefore the turnaround time was actually 2 minutes rather than
> -1. Still not great for reliability.
>
> The trains in red on
> <https://timetables.fabdigital.uk/gbrtv1/081%20Liverpool%20and%20Birkenhead%20to%20New%20Brighton,%20Bidston,%20West%20Kirby,%20Shotton%20and%20Wrexham.pdf>
> which are replaced by bus on certain days, are to allow a driver training
> run by the Vivarail class 230 to run in place of the passenger train.

Why do the drivers have to be trained on the line? I presume these are
drivers who already have knowledge of the line with existing stock.

--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
International Rescue - Swell Maps

In message <sbmtor$g2b$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:36:58 on Fri, 2 Jul 2021,
Basil Jet <basil@spamspamspam.com> remarked:
>On 02/07/2021 10:53, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>> Basil Jet <basil@spamspamspam.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> The timetable suggests that the service is now a few early and late
>>> trains on Mon-Sat with a decent service on Sunday. The rest of the
>>> trains run from Wrexham General. Is this because reliability was poor? I
>>> commented last year that the timetable suggested that the northbound
>>> train was timetabled to depart, IIRC, a minute before the southbound one
>>> arrived.
>>>
>>>
>> The public times, IIRC, didn't account for the 3 minute recovery
>>time
>> allowance, therefore the turnaround time was actually 2 minutes rather than
>> -1. Still not great for reliability.
>> The trains in red on
>>
>><https://timetables.fabdigital.uk/gbrtv1/081%20Liverpool%20and%20Birken
>>head%20to%20New%20Brighton,%20Bidston,%20West%20Kirby,%20Shotton%20and%
>>20Wrexham.pdf>
>> which are replaced by bus on certain days, are to allow a driver training
>> run by the Vivarail class 230 to run in place of the passenger train.
>
>Why do the drivers have to be trained on the line? I presume these are
>drivers who already have knowledge of the line with existing stock.

But perhaps they need to learn to drive the new train, and it could be
the only line they are running on.
--
Roland Perry

Basil Jet <basil@spamspamspam.com> wrote:
> On 02/07/2021 10:53, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>> Basil Jet <basil@spamspamspam.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> The timetable suggests that the service is now a few early and late
>>> trains on Mon-Sat with a decent service on Sunday. The rest of the
>>> trains run from Wrexham General. Is this because reliability was poor? I
>>> commented last year that the timetable suggested that the northbound
>>> train was timetabled to depart, IIRC, a minute before the southbound one
>>> arrived.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> The public times, IIRC, didn't account for the 3 minute recovery time
>> allowance, therefore the turnaround time was actually 2 minutes rather than
>> -1. Still not great for reliability.
>>
>> The trains in red on
>> <https://timetables.fabdigital.uk/gbrtv1/081%20Liverpool%20and%20Birkenhead%20to%20New%20Brighton,%20Bidston,%20West%20Kirby,%20Shotton%20and%20Wrexham.pdf>
>> which are replaced by bus on certain days, are to allow a driver training
>> run by the Vivarail class 230 to run in place of the passenger train.
>
> Why do the drivers have to be trained on the line? I presume these are
> drivers who already have knowledge of the line with existing stock.
>

The drivers are being trained on the trains, not on the line.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

On 03/07/2021 08:03, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
> Basil Jet <basil@spamspamspam.com> wrote:
>> On 02/07/2021 10:53, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>>>
>>> The trains in red on
>>> <https://timetables.fabdigital.uk/gbrtv1/081%20Liverpool%20and%20Birkenhead%20to%20New%20Brighton,%20Bidston,%20West%20Kirby,%20Shotton%20and%20Wrexham.pdf>
>>> which are replaced by bus on certain days, are to allow a driver training
>>> run by the Vivarail class 230 to run in place of the passenger train.
>>
>> Why do the drivers have to be trained on the line? I presume these are
>> drivers who already have knowledge of the line with existing stock.
>>
>
> The drivers are being trained on the trains, not on the line.

Can't they just go back and forth between Ellesmere Port and Helsby a
few times so they won't annoy any passengers?

--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
1981 - Sticky George (Don't Look Back version) - The Korgis

On 03/07/2021 08:53, Basil Jet wrote:
> On 03/07/2021 08:03, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>> Basil Jet <basil@spamspamspam.com> wrote:
>>> On 02/07/2021 10:53, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The trains in red on
>>>> <https://timetables.fabdigital.uk/gbrtv1/081%20Liverpool%20and%20Birkenhead%20to%20New%20Brighton,%20Bidston,%20West%20Kirby,%20Shotton%20and%20Wrexham.pdf>
>>>>
>>>> which are replaced by bus on certain days, are to allow a driver
>>>> training
>>>> run by the Vivarail class 230 to run in place of the passenger train.
>>>
>>> Why do the drivers have to be trained on the line? I presume these are
>>> drivers who already have knowledge of the line with existing stock.
>>>
>>
>> The drivers are being trained on the trains, not on the line.
>
> Can't they just go back and forth between Ellesmere Port and Helsby a
> few times so they won't annoy any passengers?
>

Because first they would need to learn that route, plus the route(s)
from Wrexham to/from Helsby & Ellesmere Port.

Basil Jet <basil@spamspamspam.com> wrote:
> On 03/07/2021 08:03, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>> Basil Jet <basil@spamspamspam.com> wrote:
>>> On 02/07/2021 10:53, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The trains in red on
>>>> <https://timetables.fabdigital.uk/gbrtv1/081%20Liverpool%20and%20Birkenhead%20to%20New%20Brighton,%20Bidston,%20West%20Kirby,%20Shotton%20and%20Wrexham.pdf>
>>>> which are replaced by bus on certain days, are to allow a driver training
>>>> run by the Vivarail class 230 to run in place of the passenger train.
>>>
>>> Why do the drivers have to be trained on the line? I presume these are
>>> drivers who already have knowledge of the line with existing stock.
>>>
>>
>> The drivers are being trained on the trains, not on the line.
>
> Can't they just go back and forth between Ellesmere Port and Helsby a
> few times so they won't annoy any passengers?
>

Depends where the trains are passed for, and where the various crews sign
(eg there might be a link who sign, say, north wales coat and Wrexham, and
another who sign NWC and Ellesmere Port). Also there are advantages to
doing the crew training over the routes which the trains will operate in
service.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

On 03/07/2021 19:54, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
> Basil Jet <basil@spamspamspam.com> wrote:
>> On 03/07/2021 08:03, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>>> Basil Jet <basil@spamspamspam.com> wrote:
>>>> On 02/07/2021 10:53, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The trains in red on
>>>>> <https://timetables.fabdigital.uk/gbrtv1/081%20Liverpool%20and%20Birkenhead%20to%20New%20Brighton,%20Bidston,%20West%20Kirby,%20Shotton%20and%20Wrexham.pdf>
>>>>> which are replaced by bus on certain days, are to allow a driver training
>>>>> run by the Vivarail class 230 to run in place of the passenger train.
>>>>
>>>> Why do the drivers have to be trained on the line? I presume these are
>>>> drivers who already have knowledge of the line with existing stock.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The drivers are being trained on the trains, not on the line.
>>
>> Can't they just go back and forth between Ellesmere Port and Helsby a
>> few times so they won't annoy any passengers?
>>
>
> Depends where the trains are passed for, and where the various crews sign
> (eg there might be a link who sign, say, north wales coat and Wrexham, and
> another who sign NWC and Ellesmere Port). Also there are advantages to
> doing the crew training over the routes which the trains will operate in
> service.
>
>
> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>

Helsby / Ellesmere Port is operated by Northern,so no TfW crews will
ever get there.

Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 03/07/2021 19:54, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>> Basil Jet <basil@spamspamspam.com> wrote:
>>> On 03/07/2021 08:03, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>>>> Basil Jet <basil@spamspamspam.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 02/07/2021 10:53, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The trains in red on
>>>>>> <https://timetables.fabdigital.uk/gbrtv1/081%20Liverpool%20and%20Birkenhead%20to%20New%20Brighton,%20Bidston,%20West%20Kirby,%20Shotton%20and%20Wrexham.pdf>
>>>>>> which are replaced by bus on certain days, are to allow a driver training
>>>>>> run by the Vivarail class 230 to run in place of the passenger train.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why do the drivers have to be trained on the line? I presume these are
>>>>> drivers who already have knowledge of the line with existing stock.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The drivers are being trained on the trains, not on the line.
>>>
>>> Can't they just go back and forth between Ellesmere Port and Helsby a
>>> few times so they won't annoy any passengers?
>>>
>>
>> Depends where the trains are passed for, and where the various crews sign
>> (eg there might be a link who sign, say, north wales coat and Wrexham, and
>> another who sign NWC and Ellesmere Port). Also there are advantages to
>> doing the crew training over the routes which the trains will operate in
>> service.
>>
>
> Helsby / Ellesmere Port is operated by Northern,so no TfW crews will
> ever get there.
>

Thanks, I assumed it was TfW operated and didn't check! Liverpool-based
crews, presumably?

I notice that one of today's two trains is a bus and the other is
cancelled; also that they seem to form/be formed by the now only
twice-daily Liverpool-Helsby via Earlestown service, which also are now the
only services calling at Earlestown platform 3.

Anna Noyd-Dryver