"17:04
Post update

Henry Moeran

BBC Test Match Special commentator

Afghanistan win and it is their talisman who stands arms out wide in celebration because they have beaten the world champions England in Delhi."

From Al-Beeb.

The unnecessary inclusion of "world champions" is Holmans territory......is he still with us?

In message <013f371f-08c3-4748-b8c7-701fcae1c1d0n@googlegroups.com>,
Tony The Welsh Twat <tonythewelshtwat@gmail.com> writes
>"17:04
>Post update
>
>Henry Moeran
>
>BBC Test Match Special commentator
>
>Afghanistan win and it is their talisman who stands arms out wide in
>celebration because they have beaten the world champions England in
>Delhi."
>
>From Al-Beeb.
>
>The unnecessary inclusion of "world champions" is Holmans
>territory......is he still with us?

The point Henry Moeran was making is that it's seen by the cricket world
as more of a triumph for Afghanistan to beat England because they are
the world champions and hence supposed to be very good. I'm sure that
the Afghanistan supporters will feel that way about it. It's not a
question of bigging up England.

And can't you lose your obsession with Mike Holmans, which is even more
tiresome now than it was when he was alive?

Anyway, congratulations to Afghanistan on a great win.

England now will need to win at least five of their six remaining
matches to reach the semis and could well need to win all six. Their
chances of doing so look very slim.

Woakes and Curran were poor again today, and Brooks' inning was the one
silver lining with the bat. The pitch helped the spinners more than
England were expecting - though not excessively - and they might have
been better4off playing Moeen Ali (though only if he had replaced Woakes
or Curran rather than Topley or Wood, which is by no means certain).
--
John Hall
"Acting is merely the art of keeping a large group of people
from coughing."
Sir Ralph Richardson (1902-83)

On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 5:47:36 PM UTC+1, John Hall wrote:
> In message <013f371f-08c3-4748...@googlegroups.com>,
> Tony The Welsh Twat <tonythew...@gmail.com> writes
> >"17:04
> >Post update
> >
> >Henry Moeran
> >
> >BBC Test Match Special commentator
> >
> >Afghanistan win and it is their talisman who stands arms out wide in
> >celebration because they have beaten the world champions England in
> >Delhi."
> >
> >From Al-Beeb.
> >
> >The unnecessary inclusion of "world champions" is Holmans
> >territory......is he still with us?
> The point Henry Moeran was making is that it's seen by the cricket world
> as more of a triumph for Afghanistan to beat England because they are
> the world champions and hence supposed to be very good. I'm sure that
> the Afghanistan supporters will feel that way about it. It's not a
> question of bigging up England.

trotty afterwards said he was still in shock. i think they said its only their
2nd ever WC win. Afghans posted a similar score vs India about 4 days
ago, and india won by 8wkts off 35 overs, which shows how off the
pace this england side is, at least on indian pitches.

>
> And can't you lose your obsession with Mike Holmans, which is even more
> tiresome now than it was when he was alive?
>
> Anyway, congratulations to Afghanistan on a great win.
>

they bowled brilliantly.

> England now will need to win at least five of their six remaining
> matches to reach the semis and could well need to win all six. Their
> chances of doing so look very slim.
>

i agree but the format does at least mean they still have a chance. however
as 3 of those games are against RSA India and Pakistan, it seems a tall
order. England will have to really raise their game, but is Buttler the sort
who can do this. From about the 4th over of the afghans innings he had a
rather hangdog haunted look. Still at 190-6 i thought we had got back in
it and would finish them off for about 240, but no their bowlers slogged
superbly.

> Woakes and Curran were poor again today, and Brooks' inning was the one
> silver lining with the bat. The pitch helped the spinners more than
> England were expecting - though not excessively - and they might have
> been better4off playing Moeen Ali (though only if he had replaced Woakes
> or Curran rather than Topley or Wood, which is by no means certain).
> --

England misread the pitch [surely not a surprise that indian pitches might
favour spin?] and chose the wrong side. My fantasy WC site strangely
had ticks against atkinson and ALi, so i was very surprised when i saw
it was woakes and curran again. big mistake there. I think Motty is a bit
dogmatic, and Buttler lacks the intuitions and insight that Morgan had
to turn things around in the field.

mike

In message <4be0e977-422f-4ae3-b604-80e77349a2afn@googlegroups.com>,
mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 5:47:360 <snip>
>
>trotty afterwards said he was still in shock. i think they said its only their
>2nd ever WC win.

Yes, and IIRC the other one was against Scotland.

> Afghans posted a similar score vs India about 4 days
>ago, and india won by 8wkts off 35 overs, which shows how off the
>pace this england side is, at least on indian pitches.

I think this pitch helped the spinners more than the one in the
Afghanistan v India match did, but not enough to explain the disparity.

>
>>
>> And can't you lose your obsession with Mike Holmans, which is even more
>> tiresome now than it was when he was alive?
>>
>> Anyway, congratulations to Afghanistan on a great win.
>>
>
>they bowled brilliantly.

They did. Even their seamers seemed more dangerous than ours.

>
>> England now will need to win at least five of their six remaining
>> matches to reach the semis and could well need to win all six. Their
>> chances of doing so look very slim.
>>
>
>i agree but the format does at least mean they still have a chance. however
>as 3 of those games are against RSA India and Pakistan, it seems a tall
>order.

Not to mention Australia, who may well raise their game for England.

> England will have to really raise their game, but is Buttler the sort
>who can do this. From about the 4th over of the afghans innings he had a
>rather hangdog haunted look. Still at 190-6 i thought we had got back in
>it and would finish them off for about 240, but no their bowlers slogged
>superbly.
>
>> Woakes and Curran were poor again today, and Brooks' inning was the one
>> silver lining with the bat. The pitch helped the spinners more than
>> England were expecting - though not excessively - and they might have
>> been better4off playing Moeen Ali (though only if he had replaced Woakes
>> or Curran rather than Topley or Wood, which is by no means certain).
>> --
>
>England misread the pitch [surely not a surprise that indian pitches might
>favour spin?] and chose the wrong side.

I could understand their misreading it, as there wasn't much help for
the spinners in the previous two matches at the venue. And I think all
the TV commentators were fooled too. With the benefit of hindsight, they
might have been better off batting first, but most sides seem to prefer
to chase nowadays, and they may also have been worried that dew might
prove a handicap if they bowled second.

> My fantasy WC site strangely
>had ticks against atkinson and ALi, so i was very surprised when i saw
>it was woakes and curran again. big mistake there. I think Motty is a bit
>dogmatic, and Buttler lacks the intuitions and insight that Morgan had
>to turn things around in the field.
>
>mike

Buttler also lacked both Ali and Stokes to give him advice, though he
did have Root of course.
--
John Hall
"Acting is merely the art of keeping a large group of people
from coughing."
Sir Ralph Richardson (1902-83)

On Monday, October 16, 2023 at 3:47:36 AM UTC+11, John Hall wrote:
> In message <013f371f-08c3-4748...@googlegroups.com>,
> Tony The Welsh Twat <tonythew...@gmail.com> writes
> >"17:04
> >Post update
> >
> >Henry Moeran
> >
> >BBC Test Match Special commentator
> >
> >Afghanistan win and it is their talisman who stands arms out wide in
> >celebration because they have beaten the world champions England in
> >Delhi."
> >
> >From Al-Beeb.
> >
> >The unnecessary inclusion of "world champions" is Holmans
> >territory......is he still with us?
> The point Henry Moeran was making is that it's seen by the cricket world
> as more of a triumph for Afghanistan to beat England because they are
> the world champions and hence supposed to be very good. I'm sure that
> the Afghanistan supporters will feel that way about it. It's not a
> question of bigging up England.
>
> And can't you lose your obsession with Mike Holmans, which is even more
> tiresome now than it was when he was alive?
>
> Anyway, congratulations to Afghanistan on a great win.
>
> England now will need to win at least five of their six remaining
> matches to reach the semis and could well need to win all six. Their
> chances of doing so look very slim.
>
> Woakes and Curran were poor again today, and Brooks' inning was the one
> silver lining with the bat. The pitch helped the spinners more than
> England were expecting - though not excessively - and they might have
> been better4off playing Moeen Ali (though only if he had replaced Woakes
> or Curran rather than Topley or Wood, which is by no means certain).
> --
> John Hall
> "Acting is merely the art of keeping a large group of people
> from coughing."
> Sir Ralph Richardson (1902-83)
hAVE BEEN SWAY SINCE THE asSHES

Has Mike Holmans passed away?

On Monday, October 16, 2023 at 5:01:45 AM UTC+1, wlsut...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, October 16, 2023 at 3:47:36 AM UTC+11, John Hall wrote:
> > In message <013f371f-08c3-4748...@googlegroups.com>,
> > Tony The Welsh Twat <tonythew...@gmail.com> writes
> > >"17:04
> > >Post update
> > >
> > >Henry Moeran
> > >
> > >BBC Test Match Special commentator
> > >
> > >Afghanistan win and it is their talisman who stands arms out wide in
> > >celebration because they have beaten the world champions England in
> > >Delhi."
> > >
> > >From Al-Beeb.
> > >
> > >The unnecessary inclusion of "world champions" is Holmans
> > >territory......is he still with us?
> > The point Henry Moeran was making is that it's seen by the cricket world
> > as more of a triumph for Afghanistan to beat England because they are
> > the world champions and hence supposed to be very good. I'm sure that
> > the Afghanistan supporters will feel that way about it. It's not a
> > question of bigging up England.
> >
> > And can't you lose your obsession with Mike Holmans, which is even more
> > tiresome now than it was when he was alive?
> >
> > Anyway, congratulations to Afghanistan on a great win.
> >
> > England now will need to win at least five of their six remaining
> > matches to reach the semis and could well need to win all six. Their
> > chances of doing so look very slim.
> >
> > Woakes and Curran were poor again today, and Brooks' inning was the one
> > silver lining with the bat. The pitch helped the spinners more than
> > England were expecting - though not excessively - and they might have
> > been better4off playing Moeen Ali (though only if he had replaced Woakes
> > or Curran rather than Topley or Wood, which is by no means certain).
> > --
> > John Hall
> > "Acting is merely the art of keeping a large group of people
> > from coughing."
> > Sir Ralph Richardson (1902-83)
> hAVE BEEN SWAY SINCE THE asSHES
>
> Has Mike Holmans passed away?

Yes, he is now in purgatory being forced to watch and listen to very non-pc chat an ideas for the rest of eternity ... RH