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aus+uk / uk.railway / Re: How to get to Heathrow

SubjectAuthor
* How to get to HesthrowTweed
+- How to get to HesthrowRecliner
`* How to get to HesthrowNY
 `* How to get to HesthrowRecliner
  +* How to get to HesthrowTweed
  |+* How to get to HesthrowRecliner
  ||`* How to get to HeathrowJohn Levine
  || `* How to get to HeathrowRecliner
  ||  `* How to get to HeathrowRoland Perry
  ||   `* How to get to HeathrowTweed
  ||    +* How to get to HeathrowRoland Perry
  ||    |`* How to get to HeathrowAnna Noyd-Dryver
  ||    | +* How to get to HeathrowRoland Perry
  ||    | |+* How to get to HeathrowAnna Noyd-Dryver
  ||    | ||`* How to get to HeathrowRoland Perry
  ||    | || +* How to get to HeathrowRecliner
  ||    | || |`* How to get to HeathrowBob
  ||    | || | `- How to get to HeathrowRecliner
  ||    | || `* How to get to HeathrowRoger Lynn
  ||    | ||  +* How to get to HeathrowRecliner
  ||    | ||  |`* How to get to HeathrowRoland Perry
  ||    | ||  | `* How to get to HeathrowRecliner
  ||    | ||  |  `* How to get to HeathrowRoland Perry
  ||    | ||  |   `* How to get to HeathrowRecliner
  ||    | ||  |    `* How to get to HeathrowRoland Perry
  ||    | ||  |     `* How to get to HeathrowRecliner
  ||    | ||  |      `* How to get to HeathrowRoland Perry
  ||    | ||  |       `* How to get to HeathrowRecliner
  ||    | ||  |        `* How to get to HeathrowRoland Perry
  ||    | ||  |         `* How to get to HeathrowRecliner
  ||    | ||  |          `* How to get to HeathrowAnna Noyd-Dryver
  ||    | ||  |           +- How to get to HeathrowTweed
  ||    | ||  |           `- How to get to HeathrowRecliner
  ||    | ||  `* How to get to HeathrowAnna Noyd-Dryver
  ||    | ||   `- How to get to HeathrowRecliner
  ||    | |`- How to get to HeathrowPeter Johnson
  ||    | `* How to get to Heathrowhounslow3@yahoo.co.uk
  ||    |  +- How to get to HeathrowCharles Ellson
  ||    |  +- How to get to HeathrowRecliner
  ||    |  `- How to get to HeathrowRoland Perry
  ||    `- How to get to HeathrowMarland
  |`* How to get to HesthrowRoland Perry
  | `* How to get to HesthrowAnna Noyd-Dryver
  |  `- How to get to HesthrowRoland Perry
  +- How to get to HesthrowRoland Perry
  +* How to get to HesthrowNY
  |+* How to get to HesthrowRoland Perry
  ||`* How to get to HesthrowRecliner
  || `* How to get to HesthrowMarland
  ||  +- How to get to HesthrowColinR
  ||  `- How to get to HesthrowGraeme Wall
  |+- How to get to HesthrowGraeme Wall
  |+* How to get to HesthrowRecliner
  ||`* How to get to HesthrowTweed
  || +- How to get to HesthrowCharles Ellson
  || `* How to get to HesthrowRecliner
  ||  +* How to get to HesthrowRoland Perry
  ||  |`* How to get to HesthrowRecliner
  ||  | +* How to get to HesthrowTweed
  ||  | |`* How to get to HesthrowRecliner
  ||  | | `- How to get to HesthrowRoland Perry
  ||  | +- How to get to HesthrowAnna Noyd-Dryver
  ||  | `- How to get to HesthrowRoland Perry
  ||  `* How to get to HesthrowAnna Noyd-Dryver
  ||   +* How to get to HesthrowRecliner
  ||   |+- How to get to HesthrowRoland Perry
  ||   |`* How to get to HesthrowAnna Noyd-Dryver
  ||   | +* How to get to HesthrowSam Wilson
  ||   | |+* How to get to HesthrowTweed
  ||   | ||`* How to get to HesthrowGraeme Wall
  ||   | || +- How to get to HesthrowMarland
  ||   | || `- How to get to HesthrowCharles Ellson
  ||   | |+- How to get to HesthrowAnna Noyd-Dryver
  ||   | |`- How to get to HesthrowCharles Ellson
  ||   | `* How to get to HesthrowRecliner
  ||   |  `* How to get to HesthrowAnna Noyd-Dryver
  ||   |   `- How to get to HesthrowRecliner
  ||   +- How to get to HesthrowRoland Perry
  ||   `* How to get to HesthrowBob
  ||    `- How to get to Hesthrownib
  |`- How to get to HesthrowMarland
  `* How to get to HesthrowClive Page
   `* How to get to HesthrowRoland Perry
    `* How to get to HesthrowTheo
     +- How to get to HesthrowRecliner
     +- How to get to HesthrowRoland Perry
     `* How to get to HesthrowGraeme Wall
      `* How to get to HesthrowRecliner
       +- How to get to HesthrowGraeme Wall
       `* How to get to HesthrowTheo
        `- How to get to HesthrowRecliner

Pages:1234
Re: How to get to Heathrow

<V99wJNyBPFZiFA6+@perry.uk>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=28622&group=uk.railway#28622

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: How to get to Heathrow
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2022 20:30:09 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 19:30 UTC

In message <t41je0$kva$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:18:24 on Sat, 23 Apr
2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>> According to Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>:

>>>> In the past I’ve tried HEx from Paddington and the Piccadilly. The latter
>>>> is less trouble, and cheaper but is very tedious.
>>>
>>> But as the trains are more frequent, and go directly to all terminals, the
>>> total journey time may not be much longer.
>>
>> So long as T4 remains closed, don't the Picc, HEx, and Liz all go to
>>all open terminals?
>
>Yes, that's true, but I was anticipating the reopening of T4, probably in a
>couple of months.
>
>> I agree that the Picc feels like it takes forever but since you don't
>> have to change is usually just as fast.
>
>No changes, and more frequent trains. And, of course, if your journey
>starts in London, the Piccadilly is more likely to have a station nearby.

And I don't understand why the alleged tedium of a little under an hour
on the Piccadilly Line is significant compared to the ensuing two to
three hours of tedium at Heathrow, the five to ten hours of tedium on
the onward flight, and however many hours of tedium there are at the
arrival airport.
--
Roland Perry

Re: How to get to Hesthrow

<t41l5b$2bb$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=28623&group=uk.railway#28623

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From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: How to get to Hesthrow
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2022 19:47:55 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Recliner - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 19:47 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t41b8b$hii$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:58:51 on Sat, 23 Apr
> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>
>>> Thameslink is very obviously Thameslink these
>>> days. Written on the side of the grey trains in big letters.
>>
>> Yes, thanks to Govia. All four of its GTR sub-franchises have equally
>> clear, sensible branding, though trains do get swapped between them, as
>> passenger volumes fluctuate.
>
> The bright red Gatwick Express Electrostars are now apparently a
> permanent fixture on GN to Kings Lynn.

Presumably only until GatEx fully resumes its traditional schedule?
Currently, I think it's running at 50%.

I've also been on GatEx trains running SN services, away from normal GatEx
routes. I think that's allowed some updating of SN's 377s (fitting plug
sockets, etc). GWR has also borrowed some of the 387s to fill in for
cracked IETs.

Isn't there also swapping of trains between GN and TL?

Re: How to get to Heathrow

<t41nbh$jci$1@dont-email.me>

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From: usenet.t...@gmail.com (Tweed)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: How to get to Heathrow
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2022 20:25:21 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Tweed - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 20:25 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t41je0$kva$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:18:24 on Sat, 23 Apr
> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>> According to Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>:
>
>>>>> In the past I’ve tried HEx from Paddington and the Piccadilly. The latter
>>>>> is less trouble, and cheaper but is very tedious.
>>>>
>>>> But as the trains are more frequent, and go directly to all terminals, the
>>>> total journey time may not be much longer.
>>>
>>> So long as T4 remains closed, don't the Picc, HEx, and Liz all go to
>>> all open terminals?
>>
>> Yes, that's true, but I was anticipating the reopening of T4, probably in a
>> couple of months.
>>
>>> I agree that the Picc feels like it takes forever but since you don't
>>> have to change is usually just as fast.
>>
>> No changes, and more frequent trains. And, of course, if your journey
>> starts in London, the Piccadilly is more likely to have a station nearby.
>
> And I don't understand why the alleged tedium of a little under an hour
> on the Piccadilly Line is significant compared to the ensuing two to
> three hours of tedium at Heathrow, the five to ten hours of tedium on
> the onward flight, and however many hours of tedium there are at the
> arrival airport.

It’s utterly illogical, but I really don’t like the slow trio out to
Heathrow on the tube.

Re: How to get to Hesthrow

<t41ng2$kcl$1@dont-email.me>

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From: usenet.t...@gmail.com (Tweed)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: How to get to Hesthrow
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2022 20:27:46 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Tweed - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 20:27 UTC

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t41b8b$hii$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:58:51 on Sat, 23 Apr
>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>
>>>> Thameslink is very obviously Thameslink these
>>>> days. Written on the side of the grey trains in big letters.
>>>
>>> Yes, thanks to Govia. All four of its GTR sub-franchises have equally
>>> clear, sensible branding, though trains do get swapped between them, as
>>> passenger volumes fluctuate.
>>
>> The bright red Gatwick Express Electrostars are now apparently a
>> permanent fixture on GN to Kings Lynn.
>
> Presumably only until GatEx fully resumes its traditional schedule?
> Currently, I think it's running at 50%.
>
> I've also been on GatEx trains running SN services, away from normal GatEx
> routes. I think that's allowed some updating of SN's 377s (fitting plug
> sockets, etc). GWR has also borrowed some of the 387s to fill in for
> cracked IETs.
>
> Isn't there also swapping of trains between GN and TL?
>
>

Does the GatEx have any logic now that ThamesLink provide a decent service
that starts at multiple stations within central (no don’t argue about the
definition of that….) London?

Re: How to get to Hesthrow

<t41o8g$q66$1@dont-email.me>

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From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: How to get to Hesthrow
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2022 20:40:49 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Recliner - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 20:40 UTC

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <t41b8b$hii$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:58:51 on Sat, 23 Apr
>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>
>>>>> Thameslink is very obviously Thameslink these
>>>>> days. Written on the side of the grey trains in big letters.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, thanks to Govia. All four of its GTR sub-franchises have equally
>>>> clear, sensible branding, though trains do get swapped between them, as
>>>> passenger volumes fluctuate.
>>>
>>> The bright red Gatwick Express Electrostars are now apparently a
>>> permanent fixture on GN to Kings Lynn.
>>
>> Presumably only until GatEx fully resumes its traditional schedule?
>> Currently, I think it's running at 50%.
>>
>> I've also been on GatEx trains running SN services, away from normal GatEx
>> routes. I think that's allowed some updating of SN's 377s (fitting plug
>> sockets, etc). GWR has also borrowed some of the 387s to fill in for
>> cracked IETs.
>>
>> Isn't there also swapping of trains between GN and TL?
>>
>>
>
> Does the GatEx have any logic now that ThamesLink provide a decent service
> that starts at multiple stations within central (no don’t argue about the
> definition of that….) London?

Its main function is to rip off tourists who pay more than they would on SN
services to Victoria, for the privilege of sitting bolt upright on tungsten
seats for a couple of minutes shorter journey, as it skips the East Croydon
and Clapham Junction stops. The cheaper green 377s are much more
comfortable than the red 387s.

Re: How to get to Hesthrow

<t41qtd$ekj$1@dont-email.me>

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From: ann...@noyd-dryver.com (Anna Noyd-Dryver)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: How to get to Hesthrow
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2022 21:26:05 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Anna Noyd-Dryver - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 21:26 UTC

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> First went through a misguided marketing phase of inserting the company
>>> brand in front of TOC names, but it has since been 'persuaded' not to do
>>> so. So, it's now GWR not fGW, TPE not fTPE, SWR not fSW, and Avanti WC not
>>> fWC.
>>>
>>
>> Hasn’t it been a requirement of recent franchise awards to have a TOC
>> independent name that can be bequeathed to a new encumbent without
>> extensive alterations?
>
> Yes, but FirstGroup was persuaded/volunteered to start the ball rolling
> first with its existing fGW—>GWR franchise. The silly brand names date from
> quite a few years ago, when early franchises were given more freedom to
> 'innovate'.
>

Most of the initial franchises (except Virgin) didn't have the franchisee
identity in the name, IIRC. Later takeovers or refranchising established
that habit.

Northern Spirit was perhaps the 'silliest' of the initial franchise names?

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Re: How to get to Hesthrow

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From: ann...@noyd-dryver.com (Anna Noyd-Dryver)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: How to get to Hesthrow
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2022 21:26:06 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Anna Noyd-Dryver - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 21:26 UTC

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> The bright red Gatwick Express Electrostars are now apparently a
>> permanent fixture on GN to Kings Lynn.
>
> Presumably only until GatEx fully resumes its traditional schedule?
> Currently, I think it's running at 50%.
>
> I've also been on GatEx trains running SN services, away from normal GatEx
> routes. I think that's allowed some updating of SN's 377s (fitting plug
> sockets, etc). GWR has also borrowed some of the 387s to fill in for
> cracked IETs.
>

They were returned some while ago. The white ex-c2c ones are now on direct
lease to gWr rather than sub-lease, and have been modified to be able to
operate as per the normal gWr fleet (rather than being restricted to
Reading-Newbury, or middle of 12-car, as previously); one has received gWr
branding in place of c2c branding, and at least one other has been at least
partly de-branded.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Re: How to get to Hesthrow

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From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
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Subject: Re: How to get to Hesthrow
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2022 22:01:31 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Recliner - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 22:01 UTC

Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> First went through a misguided marketing phase of inserting the company
>>>> brand in front of TOC names, but it has since been 'persuaded' not to do
>>>> so. So, it's now GWR not fGW, TPE not fTPE, SWR not fSW, and Avanti WC not
>>>> fWC.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Hasn’t it been a requirement of recent franchise awards to have a TOC
>>> independent name that can be bequeathed to a new encumbent without
>>> extensive alterations?
>>
>> Yes, but FirstGroup was persuaded/volunteered to start the ball rolling
>> first with its existing fGW—>GWR franchise. The silly brand names date from
>> quite a few years ago, when early franchises were given more freedom to
>> 'innovate'.
>>
>
> Most of the initial franchises (except Virgin) didn't have the franchisee
> identity in the name, IIRC. Later takeovers or refranchising established
> that habit.

Yes, I think most of the first batch were MBOs, who had no interest in
supposedly catchy branding. It was when they sold out to or were replaced
by companies like First and NatEx, which acquired multiple TOCs, that some
marketing genius decided that privatised train services were a classic
consumer product, so lots more passengers would be attracted if only the
branding was wackier. Mobile phone companies went through a similar phase
in the same period, and some new banks have the same idea now.

Re: How to get to Heathrow

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: How to get to Heathrow
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 06:53:22 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 05:53 UTC

In message <t41nbh$jci$1@dont-email.me>, at 20:25:21 on Sat, 23 Apr
2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t41je0$kva$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:18:24 on Sat, 23 Apr
>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>>> According to Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>:
>>
>>>>>> In the past I’ve tried HEx from Paddington and the Piccadilly.
>>>>>>The latter
>>>>>> is less trouble, and cheaper but is very tedious.
>>>>>
>>>>> But as the trains are more frequent, and go directly to all terminals, the
>>>>> total journey time may not be much longer.
>>>>
>>>> So long as T4 remains closed, don't the Picc, HEx, and Liz all go to
>>>> all open terminals?
>>>
>>> Yes, that's true, but I was anticipating the reopening of T4, probably in a
>>> couple of months.
>>>
>>>> I agree that the Picc feels like it takes forever but since you don't
>>>> have to change is usually just as fast.
>>>
>>> No changes, and more frequent trains. And, of course, if your journey
>>> starts in London, the Piccadilly is more likely to have a station nearby.
>>
>> And I don't understand why the alleged tedium of a little under an hour
>> on the Piccadilly Line is significant compared to the ensuing two to
>> three hours of tedium at Heathrow, the five to ten hours of tedium on
>> the onward flight, and however many hours of tedium there are at the
>> arrival airport.
>
>It’s utterly illogical, but I really don’t like the slow trio out to
>Heathrow on the tube.

It's the constant starting and stopping that's most wearing I think.

I like people-watching, and how the crown thins out leaving mainly
longhaul passengers, and wondering where they might be going, and why
the are dressed like *that*.

Touch wood, on the return trip it's also just as reliable (HEx is rather
granular, and connection to the subsurface trains at Paddington is a bit
of a lottery) so you know exactly which onward train you will be
expecting to catch.
--
Roland Perry

Re: How to get to Hesthrow

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: How to get to Hesthrow
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 07:02:09 +0100
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 by: Roland Perry - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 06:02 UTC

In message <t41qtd$ekj$1@dont-email.me>, at 21:26:05 on Sat, 23 Apr
2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:

>Most of the initial franchises (except Virgin) didn't have the franchisee
>identity in the name, IIRC.

Perhaps because many were essentially independent startups.

>Later takeovers or refranchising established that habit.
>
>Northern Spirit was perhaps the 'silliest' of the initial franchise names?

How about (although it wasn't coined immediately) "We Are Going Nowhere"
(aka "three wheels on my WAGN, and we are still rolling along").
--
Roland Perry

Re: How to get to Hesthrow

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: How to get to Hesthrow
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 06:58:27 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 05:58 UTC

In message <t41o8g$q66$1@dont-email.me>, at 20:40:49 on Sat, 23 Apr
2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <t41b8b$hii$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:58:51 on Sat, 23 Apr
>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>>> Thameslink is very obviously Thameslink these
>>>>>> days. Written on the side of the grey trains in big letters.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, thanks to Govia. All four of its GTR sub-franchises have equally
>>>>> clear, sensible branding, though trains do get swapped between them, as
>>>>> passenger volumes fluctuate.
>>>>
>>>> The bright red Gatwick Express Electrostars are now apparently a
>>>> permanent fixture on GN to Kings Lynn.
>>>
>>> Presumably only until GatEx fully resumes its traditional schedule?
>>> Currently, I think it's running at 50%.
>>>
>>> I've also been on GatEx trains running SN services, away from normal GatEx
>>> routes. I think that's allowed some updating of SN's 377s (fitting plug
>>> sockets, etc). GWR has also borrowed some of the 387s to fill in for
>>> cracked IETs.
>>>
>>> Isn't there also swapping of trains between GN and TL?
>>
>> Does the GatEx have any logic now that ThamesLink provide a decent service
>> that starts at multiple stations within central (no don’t argue about the
>> definition of that….) London?
>
>Its main function is to rip off tourists who pay more than they would on SN
>services to Victoria, for the privilege of sitting bolt upright on tungsten
>seats for a couple of minutes shorter journey, as it skips the East Croydon
>and Clapham Junction stops. The cheaper green 377s are much more
>comfortable than the red 387s.

Back in the day, the main advantage was an empty train at Gatwick,
rather than one packed with Brighton commuters, and of course with
some useful luggage space.

Returning, there was an easy to find customer-friendly dedicated
platform at Victoria, with staff who didn't treat every passenger like
they were a convicted fare-dodger.

There's also the "airport express" phenomenon, where travellers
unfamiliar with their destination's spaghetti of commuter train services
and incomprehensible ticketing systems, are prepared to pay a small
premium for a flat-fare shuttle that will make at least some effort to
accommodate their particular needs.

Like HEx, it's essentially a poor-man's limo service to the city centre.
--
Roland Perry

Re: How to get to Hesthrow

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: How to get to Hesthrow
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 07:06:58 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 06:06 UTC

In message <t41l5b$2bb$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:47:55 on Sat, 23 Apr
2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t41b8b$hii$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:58:51 on Sat, 23 Apr
>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>
>>>> Thameslink is very obviously Thameslink these
>>>> days. Written on the side of the grey trains in big letters.
>>>
>>> Yes, thanks to Govia. All four of its GTR sub-franchises have equally
>>> clear, sensible branding, though trains do get swapped between them, as
>>> passenger volumes fluctuate.
>>
>> The bright red Gatwick Express Electrostars are now apparently a
>> permanent fixture on GN to Kings Lynn.
>
>Presumably only until GatEx fully resumes its traditional schedule?

They've put some new vinyl stickers on them, something like "Great
Northern operated by Gatwick Express". But it's the bright red paint you
see from a distance (contrasting with the white paint on the second
unit-of-four)

>Currently, I think it's running at 50%.
>
>I've also been on GatEx trains running SN services, away from normal GatEx
>routes. I think that's allowed some updating of SN's 377s (fitting plug
>sockets, etc). GWR has also borrowed some of the 387s to fill in for
>cracked IETs.
>
>Isn't there also swapping of trains between GN and TL?

Early in lockdown we saw a few 700's operating GN services (to and north
of) Cambridge, but I presume whatever stock shortage that was a symptom
of, has been fixed long term with the Gatex Electrostars.
--
Roland Perry

Re: How to get to Hesthrow

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: How to get to Hesthrow
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 07:15:41 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 06:15 UTC

In message <t41svr$vtj$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:01:31 on Sat, 23 Apr
2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> First went through a misguided marketing phase of inserting the company
>>>>> brand in front of TOC names, but it has since been 'persuaded' not to do
>>>>> so. So, it's now GWR not fGW, TPE not fTPE, SWR not fSW, and Avanti WC not
>>>>> fWC.
>>>>
>>>> Hasn’t it been a requirement of recent franchise awards to have a TOC
>>>> independent name that can be bequeathed to a new encumbent without
>>>> extensive alterations?
>>>
>>> Yes, but FirstGroup was persuaded/volunteered to start the ball
>>>rolling first with its existing fGW—>GWR franchise. The silly
>>>brand names date from quite a few years ago, when early franchises
>>>were given more freedom to 'innovate'.
>>>
>> Most of the initial franchises (except Virgin) didn't have the franchisee
>> identity in the name, IIRC. Later takeovers or refranchising established
>> that habit.
>
>Yes, I think most of the first batch were MBOs, who had no interest in
>supposedly catchy branding. It was when they sold out to or were replaced
>by companies like First and NatEx, which acquired multiple TOCs, that some
>marketing genius decided that privatised train services were a classic
>consumer product, so lots more passengers would be attracted if only the
>branding was wackier. Mobile phone companies went through a similar phase
>in the same period, and some new banks have the same idea now.

It was also thus (see what I did there?) in the telecoms industry.

Still waiting for "3" to rebrand as "5" when they switch off their
original network.

Earlier, I came up with the branding "UK Online", for a startup consumer
ISP, which was later stolen by HMG. Of course, it was channelling
"America Online" and another startup at the same time that crashed and
burned "Europe Online". And today I think people more associate MSN with
the TV channel than Microsoft Network (a failed attempt at cloning AOL).
--
Roland Perry

Re: How to get to Hesthrow

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From: ann...@noyd-dryver.com (Anna Noyd-Dryver)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: How to get to Hesthrow
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 06:38:17 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Anna Noyd-Dryver - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 06:38 UTC

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> First went through a misguided marketing phase of inserting the company
>>>>> brand in front of TOC names, but it has since been 'persuaded' not to do
>>>>> so. So, it's now GWR not fGW, TPE not fTPE, SWR not fSW, and Avanti WC not
>>>>> fWC.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hasn’t it been a requirement of recent franchise awards to have a TOC
>>>> independent name that can be bequeathed to a new encumbent without
>>>> extensive alterations?
>>>
>>> Yes, but FirstGroup was persuaded/volunteered to start the ball rolling
>>> first with its existing fGW—>GWR franchise. The silly brand names date from
>>> quite a few years ago, when early franchises were given more freedom to
>>> 'innovate'.
>>>
>>
>> Most of the initial franchises (except Virgin) didn't have the franchisee
>> identity in the name, IIRC. Later takeovers or refranchising established
>> that habit.
>
> Yes, I think most of the first batch were MBOs, who had no interest in
> supposedly catchy branding. It was when they sold out to or were replaced
> by companies like First and NatEx, which acquired multiple TOCs, that some
> marketing genius decided that privatised train services were a classic
> consumer product, so lots more passengers would be attracted if only the
> branding was wackier. Mobile phone companies went through a similar phase
> in the same period, and some new banks have the same idea now.
>
>
>

Which ones other than c2c, One and FCC do you consider 'wacky'? Most were a
geographical name with the owning group appended, surely, or occasionally
just the name of that group (Connex).

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Re: How to get to Heathrow

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From: ann...@noyd-dryver.com (Anna Noyd-Dryver)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: How to get to Heathrow
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 06:38:18 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Anna Noyd-Dryver - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 06:38 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t41nbh$jci$1@dont-email.me>, at 20:25:21 on Sat, 23 Apr
> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <t41je0$kva$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:18:24 on Sat, 23 Apr
>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>>>> According to Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>>>>> In the past I’ve tried HEx from Paddington and the Piccadilly.
>>>>>>> The latter
>>>>>>> is less trouble, and cheaper but is very tedious.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But as the trains are more frequent, and go directly to all terminals, the
>>>>>> total journey time may not be much longer.
>>>>>
>>>>> So long as T4 remains closed, don't the Picc, HEx, and Liz all go to
>>>>> all open terminals?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, that's true, but I was anticipating the reopening of T4, probably in a
>>>> couple of months.
>>>>
>>>>> I agree that the Picc feels like it takes forever but since you don't
>>>>> have to change is usually just as fast.
>>>>
>>>> No changes, and more frequent trains. And, of course, if your journey
>>>> starts in London, the Piccadilly is more likely to have a station nearby.
>>>
>>> And I don't understand why the alleged tedium of a little under an hour
>>> on the Piccadilly Line is significant compared to the ensuing two to
>>> three hours of tedium at Heathrow, the five to ten hours of tedium on
>>> the onward flight, and however many hours of tedium there are at the
>>> arrival airport.
>>
>> It’s utterly illogical, but I really don’t like the slow trio out to
>> Heathrow on the tube.
>
> It's the constant starting and stopping that's most wearing I think.
>
> I like people-watching, and how the crown thins out leaving mainly
> longhaul passengers, and wondering where they might be going, and why
> the are dressed like *that*.
>
> Touch wood, on the return trip it's also just as reliable (HEx is rather
> granular,

I thought every 15 minutes was considered the general baseline for 'turn up
and go' operation?

Lizzie will eventually be every 10 mins, IIRC.

> and connection to the subsurface trains at Paddington is a bit
> of a lottery)

Every 5/6 minutes not good enough for you?

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Re: How to get to Hesthrow

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From: ukr...@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk (Sam Wilson)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: How to get to Hesthrow
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 07:38:37 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Sam Wilson - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 07:38 UTC

Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> First went through a misguided marketing phase of inserting the company
>>>>>> brand in front of TOC names, but it has since been 'persuaded' not to do
>>>>>> so. So, it's now GWR not fGW, TPE not fTPE, SWR not fSW, and Avanti WC not
>>>>>> fWC.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hasn’t it been a requirement of recent franchise awards to have a TOC
>>>>> independent name that can be bequeathed to a new encumbent without
>>>>> extensive alterations?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, but FirstGroup was persuaded/volunteered to start the ball rolling
>>>> first with its existing fGW—>GWR franchise. The silly brand names date from
>>>> quite a few years ago, when early franchises were given more freedom to
>>>> 'innovate'.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Most of the initial franchises (except Virgin) didn't have the franchisee
>>> identity in the name, IIRC. Later takeovers or refranchising established
>>> that habit.
>>
>> Yes, I think most of the first batch were MBOs, who had no interest in
>> supposedly catchy branding. It was when they sold out to or were replaced
>> by companies like First and NatEx, which acquired multiple TOCs, that some
>> marketing genius decided that privatised train services were a classic
>> consumer product, so lots more passengers would be attracted if only the
>> branding was wackier. Mobile phone companies went through a similar phase
>> in the same period, and some new banks have the same idea now.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Which ones other than c2c, One and FCC do you consider 'wacky'? Most were a
> geographical name with the owning group appended, surely, or occasionally
> just the name of that group (Connex).

Silverlink with their purple and green trains? I liked the livery, which
seemed to make me a bit unusual, but the name made no sense.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Re: How to get to Hesthrow

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From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: How to get to Hesthrow
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 07:48:42 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Recliner - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 07:48 UTC

Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> First went through a misguided marketing phase of inserting the company
>>>>>> brand in front of TOC names, but it has since been 'persuaded' not to do
>>>>>> so. So, it's now GWR not fGW, TPE not fTPE, SWR not fSW, and Avanti WC not
>>>>>> fWC.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hasn’t it been a requirement of recent franchise awards to have a TOC
>>>>> independent name that can be bequeathed to a new encumbent without
>>>>> extensive alterations?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, but FirstGroup was persuaded/volunteered to start the ball rolling
>>>> first with its existing fGW—>GWR franchise. The silly brand names date from
>>>> quite a few years ago, when early franchises were given more freedom to
>>>> 'innovate'.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Most of the initial franchises (except Virgin) didn't have the franchisee
>>> identity in the name, IIRC. Later takeovers or refranchising established
>>> that habit.
>>
>> Yes, I think most of the first batch were MBOs, who had no interest in
>> supposedly catchy branding. It was when they sold out to or were replaced
>> by companies like First and NatEx, which acquired multiple TOCs, that some
>> marketing genius decided that privatised train services were a classic
>> consumer product, so lots more passengers would be attracted if only the
>> branding was wackier. Mobile phone companies went through a similar phase
>> in the same period, and some new banks have the same idea now.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Which ones other than c2c, One and FCC do you consider 'wacky'? Most were a
> geographical name with the owning group appended, surely, or occasionally
> just the name of that group (Connex).

Silverlink Metro and County?

Wessex is more whimsical than geographic.

WAGN was, technically, geographic, but not very helpfully.

Re: How to get to Hesthrow

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From: usenet.t...@gmail.com (Tweed)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: How to get to Hesthrow
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 07:52:50 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Tweed - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 07:52 UTC

Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> First went through a misguided marketing phase of inserting the company
>>>>>>> brand in front of TOC names, but it has since been 'persuaded' not to do
>>>>>>> so. So, it's now GWR not fGW, TPE not fTPE, SWR not fSW, and Avanti WC not
>>>>>>> fWC.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hasn’t it been a requirement of recent franchise awards to have a TOC
>>>>>> independent name that can be bequeathed to a new encumbent without
>>>>>> extensive alterations?
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, but FirstGroup was persuaded/volunteered to start the ball rolling
>>>>> first with its existing fGW—>GWR franchise. The silly brand names date from
>>>>> quite a few years ago, when early franchises were given more freedom to
>>>>> 'innovate'.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Most of the initial franchises (except Virgin) didn't have the franchisee
>>>> identity in the name, IIRC. Later takeovers or refranchising established
>>>> that habit.
>>>
>>> Yes, I think most of the first batch were MBOs, who had no interest in
>>> supposedly catchy branding. It was when they sold out to or were replaced
>>> by companies like First and NatEx, which acquired multiple TOCs, that some
>>> marketing genius decided that privatised train services were a classic
>>> consumer product, so lots more passengers would be attracted if only the
>>> branding was wackier. Mobile phone companies went through a similar phase
>>> in the same period, and some new banks have the same idea now.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Which ones other than c2c, One and FCC do you consider 'wacky'? Most were a
>> geographical name with the owning group appended, surely, or occasionally
>> just the name of that group (Connex).
>
> Silverlink with their purple and green trains? I liked the livery, which
> seemed to make me a bit unusual, but the name made no sense.
>
> Sam
>

Not just a railway thing. The whole country was in thrall to the branding
folk. Consignia anyone? Also remember when every brand name had to be
accompanied by a mission statement strapline, eg “Metropolitan Police -
working for a safer London” (or vacuous words to that effect). All a lot
easier than the hard work of actually achieving anything.

Re: How to get to Hesthrow

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From: rai...@greywall.demon.co.uk (Graeme Wall)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: How to get to Hesthrow
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 10:30:57 +0100
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 by: Graeme Wall - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 09:30 UTC

On 24/04/2022 08:52, Tweed wrote:
> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> First went through a misguided marketing phase of inserting the company
>>>>>>>> brand in front of TOC names, but it has since been 'persuaded' not to do
>>>>>>>> so. So, it's now GWR not fGW, TPE not fTPE, SWR not fSW, and Avanti WC not
>>>>>>>> fWC.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hasn’t it been a requirement of recent franchise awards to have a TOC
>>>>>>> independent name that can be bequeathed to a new encumbent without
>>>>>>> extensive alterations?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, but FirstGroup was persuaded/volunteered to start the ball rolling
>>>>>> first with its existing fGW—>GWR franchise. The silly brand names date from
>>>>>> quite a few years ago, when early franchises were given more freedom to
>>>>>> 'innovate'.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Most of the initial franchises (except Virgin) didn't have the franchisee
>>>>> identity in the name, IIRC. Later takeovers or refranchising established
>>>>> that habit.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I think most of the first batch were MBOs, who had no interest in
>>>> supposedly catchy branding. It was when they sold out to or were replaced
>>>> by companies like First and NatEx, which acquired multiple TOCs, that some
>>>> marketing genius decided that privatised train services were a classic
>>>> consumer product, so lots more passengers would be attracted if only the
>>>> branding was wackier. Mobile phone companies went through a similar phase
>>>> in the same period, and some new banks have the same idea now.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Which ones other than c2c, One and FCC do you consider 'wacky'? Most were a
>>> geographical name with the owning group appended, surely, or occasionally
>>> just the name of that group (Connex).
>>
>> Silverlink with their purple and green trains? I liked the livery, which
>> seemed to make me a bit unusual, but the name made no sense.
>>
>> Sam
>>
>
> Not just a railway thing. The whole country was in thrall to the branding
> folk. Consignia anyone? Also remember when every brand name had to be
> accompanied by a mission statement strapline, eg “Metropolitan Police -
> working for a safer London” (or vacuous words to that effect). All a lot
> easier than the hard work of actually achieving anything.
>

Taken from the Californian (?) police motto, to Protect and to Serve,
allegedly a Hollywood invention. I came across a faux American police
car in Southampton with the legend: To Protect and to Serve Beer,
belonged to the landlord of a local pub.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Re: How to get to Heathrow

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From: gemeha...@btinternet.co.uk (Marland)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london,uk.railway
Subject: Re: How to get to Heathrow
Date: 24 Apr 2022 10:14:27 GMT
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 by: Marland - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 10:14 UTC

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t41je0$kva$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:18:24 on Sat, 23 Apr
>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>>> According to Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>:
>>
>>>>>> In the past I’ve tried HEx from Paddington and the Piccadilly. The latter
>>>>>> is less trouble, and cheaper but is very tedious.
>>>>>
>>>>> But as the trains are more frequent, and go directly to all terminals, the
>>>>> total journey time may not be much longer.
>>>>
>>>> So long as T4 remains closed, don't the Picc, HEx, and Liz all go to
>>>> all open terminals?
>>>
>>> Yes, that's true, but I was anticipating the reopening of T4, probably in a
>>> couple of months.
>>>
>>>> I agree that the Picc feels like it takes forever but since you don't
>>>> have to change is usually just as fast.
>>>
>>> No changes, and more frequent trains. And, of course, if your journey
>>> starts in London, the Piccadilly is more likely to have a station nearby.
>>
>> And I don't understand why the alleged tedium of a little under an hour
>> on the Piccadilly Line is significant compared to the ensuing two to
>> three hours of tedium at Heathrow, the five to ten hours of tedium on
>> the onward flight, and however many hours of tedium there are at the
>> arrival airport.
>
> It’s utterly illogical, but I really don’t like the slow trio out to
> Heathrow on the tube.
>
>

I’m about to depart for an overseas holiday so have not got time to list
details but there is heck of a lotof railway history west of Hammersmith to
look for.
Look up the history of the LSWR and District line and how the LSWR making
the section between Hammersmith where part of their viaduct still stands
and Stamford Brook,Ravenscourt Park Turnham 4 track caused the demise of
their own service but made room for the Piccadilly.
Those stations still look like main line railway.
Around Hounslow you used to be able to spot the junctions where the
original District Hounslow branch lead off.
Near Turnham green the power station for the trams of that area still
stands.
Acton still has the various works and depots, Still part of a water column
if you look hard at Acton.

Gunnersbury /Chiswick Park just before there has various connection some
used others long abandoned down to the North London line to look out for.
When the Piccadilly took over the main service from the District in the
1930’s it was modernised so you have Holdens architecture to study.

Should be enough to pass the time ,though not if its dark.

GH

Re: How to get to Hesthrow

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From: gemeha...@btinternet.co.uk (Marland)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london,uk.railway
Subject: Re: How to get to Hesthrow
Date: 24 Apr 2022 10:21:21 GMT
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 by: Marland - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 10:21 UTC

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>> Not just a railway thing. The whole country was in thrall to the branding
>> folk. Consignia anyone? Also remember when every brand name had to be
>> accompanied by a mission statement strapline, eg “Metropolitan Police -
>> working for a safer London” (or vacuous words to that effect). All a lot
>> easier than the hard work of actually achieving anything.
>>
>
> Taken from the Californian (?) police motto, to Protect and to Serve,
> allegedly a Hollywood invention. I came across a faux American police
> car in Southampton with the legend: To Protect and to Serve Beer,
> belonged to the landlord of a local pub.
>

We fitted a Whitbread Trophy counter display to the roof of my mates Austin
Cambridge back in the 1970’s and arranged for it to flash when on the way
to New Forest Pubs.
The Police expressed a dim view but took no action.( We always used a
nominated and correctly insured driver)

GH

Re: How to get to Heathrow

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: How to get to Heathrow
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 11:24:14 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 10:24 UTC

In message <t42r8q$m53$2@dont-email.me>, at 06:38:18 on Sun, 24 Apr
2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t41nbh$jci$1@dont-email.me>, at 20:25:21 on Sat, 23 Apr
>> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <t41je0$kva$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:18:24 on Sat, 23 Apr
>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>>>>> According to Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>>>>>> In the past I’ve tried HEx from Paddington and the Piccadilly.
>>>>>>>> The latter
>>>>>>>> is less trouble, and cheaper but is very tedious.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But as the trains are more frequent, and go directly to all
>>>>>>>terminals, the
>>>>>>> total journey time may not be much longer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So long as T4 remains closed, don't the Picc, HEx, and Liz all go to
>>>>>> all open terminals?
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, that's true, but I was anticipating the reopening of T4,
>>>>>probably in a
>>>>> couple of months.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree that the Picc feels like it takes forever but since you don't
>>>>>> have to change is usually just as fast.
>>>>>
>>>>> No changes, and more frequent trains. And, of course, if your journey
>>>>> starts in London, the Piccadilly is more likely to have a station nearby.
>>>>
>>>> And I don't understand why the alleged tedium of a little under an hour
>>>> on the Piccadilly Line is significant compared to the ensuing two to
>>>> three hours of tedium at Heathrow, the five to ten hours of tedium on
>>>> the onward flight, and however many hours of tedium there are at the
>>>> arrival airport.
>>>
>>> It’s utterly illogical, but I really don’t like the slow trio out to
>>> Heathrow on the tube.
>>
>> It's the constant starting and stopping that's most wearing I think.
>>
>> I like people-watching, and how the crown thins out leaving mainly
>> longhaul passengers, and wondering where they might be going, and why
>> the are dressed like *that*.
>>
>> Touch wood, on the return trip it's also just as reliable (HEx is rather
>> granular,
>
>I thought every 15 minutes was considered the general baseline for 'turn up
>and go' operation?

For heavy rail (and subsurface TfL) outside the North/South circulars,
on a one-leg trip, perhaps. Yes, I know HEx is outside that perimeter,
but it has competition if the destination is beyond Paddington.

A change at somewhere like Paddington means concatenating the
granularity of two different services.

>Lizzie will eventually be every 10 mins, IIRC.
>
>> and connection to the subsurface trains at Paddington is a bit
>> of a lottery)
>
>Every 5/6 minutes not good enough for you?

HEx arrivals at Paddington intuitively head towards the Praed St
station, where the Circle Line has for a generation been the epitome of
lateness/unreliability. Or get a District Line and change at Edgware
Road, where the lack of a step-free transfer is an ongoing scandal.

And now we have the "teacup", even Circle Line trains require such a
change.

Alternatively, use the H&C station, which has always been a bit of an
afterthought, and iirx after a rebuild is even further from the heavy
rail platforms. And is that step-free from the main shed yet?
--
Roland Perry

Re: How to get to Hesthrow

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From: use...@page2.eu (Clive Page)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: How to get to Hesthrow
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 11:59:09 +0100
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 by: Clive Page - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 10:59 UTC

On 22/04/2022 22:12, Recliner wrote:
>
> It's much easier, much cheaper, and probably no slower, to just take a
> direct Piccadilly train to any Heathrow terminal. Step-free all the way,
> and the seats are more comfortable.

Agreed, but 'step free' at St.Pancras means taking, if I remember correctly, about 5 lifts. Most of them are well hidden, and at any given time the chances that all are actually in working order is smallish. Be prepared to lug your luggage down quite a few escalators.

--
Clive Page

Re: How to get to Hesthrow

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: How to get to Hesthrow
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 13:08:07 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 12:08 UTC

In message <jckorsFmdlvU1@mid.individual.net>, at 11:59:09 on Sun, 24
Apr 2022, Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> remarked:
>On 22/04/2022 22:12, Recliner wrote:
>> It's much easier, much cheaper, and probably no slower, to just take
>>a
>> direct Piccadilly train to any Heathrow terminal. Step-free all the way,
>> and the seats are more comfortable.
>
>Agreed, but 'step free' at St.Pancras means taking, if I remember
>correctly, about 5 lifts.

Depends where you are starting from, but let's assume the MML platforms.

One lift down to ground level.

U-turn, first right, through the "Market", and then there's a lift which
also serves the HS1 platforms.

Down to the "Northern Ticket Hall" level, and adjacent to the barriers
is the longest of these lifts, down to the mezzanine level.

From there a long passage to the Picc/Vicc platforms, each of which has
a short lift down to platform level.

>Most of them are well hidden, and at any given time the chances that
>all are actually in working order is smallish.

FWIW I've never seen any of them out of action. The lifts themselves
aren't hidden, but there's no overall plan, almost every one having its
own small target market.

>Be prepared to lug your luggage down quite a few escalators.

That's true almost everywhere, unless carefully planned. What's properly
awful is stairs-only, like at Edgware Road.

If the Circle was still a Circle, it'd be possible to do a lot less
walking, and take three lifts (two very short) down to the Subsurface
platforms at the front of St Pancras, then same platform change to the
District somewhere like Bayswater, then cross platform to the Piccadilly
at Barons Court or Hammersmith.
--
Roland Perry

Re: How to get to Hesthrow

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From: theom+n...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Theo)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: How to get to Hesthrow
Date: 24 Apr 2022 14:44:06 +0100 (BST)
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Originator: theom@chiark.greenend.org.uk ([212.13.197.229])
 by: Theo - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 13:44 UTC

In uk.transport.london Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> If the Circle was still a Circle, it'd be possible to do a lot less
> walking, and take three lifts (two very short) down to the Subsurface
> platforms at the front of St Pancras, then same platform change to the
> District somewhere like Bayswater, then cross platform to the Piccadilly
> at Barons Court or Hammersmith.

What's the interchange like at Hammersmith between Circle/H&C and
Piccadilly? Looking at the journey planner it seems about evens using
either to get from St Pancras. Possibly the Circle/H&C would be an option
for those wanting an alternative route (with less tunnel)?

Theo

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